XP *and* Vista co-exist in the market?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Steve Thackery
  • Start date Start date
Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:g0n00k$984$1@aioe.org...
>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware
>>>>>> long before it was released.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very
>>>>>> good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with
>>>>> Vista Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what
>>>>> I'd call high end.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware
>>>> to build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the
>>>> cost of buying retail Ultimate in Spain.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living
>>> in the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is
>>> high end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name
>>> brand DDR2 RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will
>>> run Vista very well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware
>>> which is what I consider to be decent quality.
>>>
>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00
>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00
>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00
>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00
>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00
>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00
>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00
>>
>> No video or audio card? Are these Canadian or US dollars?
>>
>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised
>>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could
>>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any
>>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be
>>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is
>>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be
>>> another $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00.
>>> Maybe you should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live
>>> in Spain has impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is
>>> relative to where you live. The system specs would not be considered
>>> high end anywhere yet Vista runs with no problems on it.
>>>
>>
>> Unfortunately, in Spain, you can't buy a copy of a generic OEM Vista
>> (or XP for that matter), only retail, unless you buy a complete
>> computer. If I wanted to buy another copy of Vista or XP, I would get
>> a friend to buy it in the States and send it to me.
>>
>> That said, I didn't move to Spain for computer prices. I hate the cold
>> and where I live, there's sunshine at least 300 days a year and it
>> never goes under 5ºC so Canada is completely out of the question :-)
>>
>> Alias
>
>
> The more I see your answers to other people, the less I think that you
> know about computers..
>
>

Again, Mike plays the more knowledgeable than thou card like a true MS
fanboy. Frank would be proud of you.

Fact is, you know more than I and I know more than you.

Alias
 
Alias wrote:

> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>
>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:g0n00k$984$1@aioe.org...
>>
>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>
>>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>>
>>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware
>>>>>>> long before it was released.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very
>>>>>>> good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with
>>>>>> Vista Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what
>>>>>> I'd call high end.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap
>>>>> hardware to build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even
>>>>> cover the cost of buying retail Ultimate in Spain.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are
>>>> living in the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of
>>>> RAM is high end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of
>>>> name brand DDR2 RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that
>>>> will run Vista very well and is easily under $500.00 for the
>>>> hardware which is what I consider to be decent quality.
>>>>
>>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00
>>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00
>>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00
>>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00
>>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00
>>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00
>>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00
>>>
>>>
>>> No video or audio card? Are these Canadian or US dollars?
>>>
>>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all
>>>> recognised brand names. If you're not particular about where you
>>>> shop you could probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end.
>>>> It will run any edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The
>>>> system will be stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista
>>>> Home Premium is $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen
>>>> LCD would be another $200.00. The complete system with Vista
>>>> Ultimate is $865.00. Maybe you should move to Canada. It sounds like
>>>> your decision to live in Spain has impacted your computing
>>>> experience. In any case cost is relative to where you live. The
>>>> system specs would not be considered high end anywhere yet Vista
>>>> runs with no problems on it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, in Spain, you can't buy a copy of a generic OEM Vista
>>> (or XP for that matter), only retail, unless you buy a complete
>>> computer. If I wanted to buy another copy of Vista or XP, I would get
>>> a friend to buy it in the States and send it to me.
>>>
>>> That said, I didn't move to Spain for computer prices. I hate the
>>> cold and where I live, there's sunshine at least 300 days a year and
>>> it never goes under 5ºC so Canada is completely out of the question :-)
>>>
>>> Alias
>>
>>
>>
>> The more I see your answers to other people, the less I think that you
>> know about computers..
>>
>>
>
> Again, Mike plays the more knowledgeable than thou card like a true MS
> fanboy. Frank would be proud of you.
>
> Fact is, you know more than I and I know more than you.
>
> Alias

IOW's alias is just one stupid, ignorant POS lying linux troll.
Loser!
Frank
 
"Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@remove_mvps.com> wrote in message
news:eJxDSbGuIHA.4528@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> "Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message
> news:2E5A8BF6-8DA4-4129-B7D7-A88CF082CEB9@microsoft.com...
>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware long
>>>>> before it was released.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very good
>>>>> job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista
>>>> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call
>>>> high end.
>>>>
>>>
>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware to
>>> build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the cost of
>>> buying retail Ultimate in Spain.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living in
>> the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is high
>> end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name brand DDR2
>> RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run Vista very
>> well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is what I
>> consider to be decent quality.
>>
>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00
>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00
>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00
>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00
>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00
>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00
>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00
>>
>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised
>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could
>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any
>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be
>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is
>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be another
>> $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00. Maybe you
>> should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live in Spain has
>> impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is relative to where
>> you live. The system specs would not be considered high end anywhere yet
>> Vista runs with no problems on it.
>>
>> --
>> Kerry Brown
>> MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience: Systems Administration
>> http://www.vistahelp.ca/phpBB2/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Kerry
>
> Prices for everything are higher in Europe than in North America, and
> taxation plays its part.
>
> Don't let Alias fool you into believing that Spain is a peasant country,
> because it is anything but peasant. For sure some of the old ways of life
> still exist, but Spain is as technologically advanced as most countries,
> and has been the only European country growing over the last few years.
>
> They may not have the cheap computer fairs as in the UK, but one can get
> computers, parts and software at reasonable prices just as one can in
> other countries.
>


I know this. I've travelled extensively in Europe. It's fun watching Alias
make a fool of himself. My point wasn't really about price but about what is
considered high end. Price is relative to the local economy. Computer specs
aren't. Vista requires hardware that may have been considered high end three
years ago. It runs very nicely on most current low end hardware. Give it
some high end hardware and it's awesome.

--
Kerry Brown
MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience: Systems Administration
http://www.vistahelp.ca/phpBB2/
 
Frank wrote:
> Alias wrote:
>
>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>>
>>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:g0n00k$984$1@aioe.org...
>>>
>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end
>>>>>>>> hardware long before it was released.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a
>>>>>>>> very good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with
>>>>>>> Vista Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what
>>>>>>> I'd call high end.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap
>>>>>> hardware to build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even
>>>>>> cover the cost of buying retail Ultimate in Spain.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are
>>>>> living in the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB
>>>>> of RAM is high end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada
>>>>> 2GB of name brand DDR2 RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical
>>>>> configuration that will run Vista very well and is easily under
>>>>> $500.00 for the hardware which is what I consider to be decent
>>>>> quality.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00
>>>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00
>>>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00
>>>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00
>>>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00
>>>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00
>>>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No video or audio card? Are these Canadian or US dollars?
>>>>
>>>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all
>>>>> recognised brand names. If you're not particular about where you
>>>>> shop you could probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end.
>>>>> It will run any edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems.
>>>>> The system will be stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM
>>>>> Vista Home Premium is $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide
>>>>> screen LCD would be another $200.00. The complete system with
>>>>> Vista Ultimate is $865.00. Maybe you should move to Canada. It
>>>>> sounds like your decision to live in Spain has impacted your
>>>>> computing experience. In any case cost is relative to where you
>>>>> live. The system specs would not be considered high end anywhere
>>>>> yet Vista runs with no problems on it.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, in Spain, you can't buy a copy of a generic OEM
>>>> Vista (or XP for that matter), only retail, unless you buy a
>>>> complete computer. If I wanted to buy another copy of Vista or XP,
>>>> I would get a friend to buy it in the States and send it to me.
>>>>
>>>> That said, I didn't move to Spain for computer prices. I hate the
>>>> cold and where I live, there's sunshine at least 300 days a year
>>>> and it never goes under 5ºC so Canada is completely out of the
>>>> question :-)
>>>>
>>>> Alias
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The more I see your answers to other people, the less I think that
>>> you know about computers..
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Again, Mike plays the more knowledgeable than thou card like a true
>> MS fanboy. Frank would be proud of you.
>>
>> Fact is, you know more than I and I know more than you.
>>
>> Alias
>
> IOW's alias is just one stupid, ignorant POS lying linux troll.
> Loser!
> Frank
Why are you constantly calling yourself
Loser!
Frank
 
Canuck57 wrote:
> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:g0n00k$984$1@aioe.org...
>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware long
>>>>>> before it was released.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very good
>>>>>> job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista
>>>>> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call
>>>>> high end.
>>>>>
>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware to
>>>> build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the cost of
>>>> buying retail Ultimate in Spain.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living in
>>> the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is high
>>> end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name brand DDR2
>>> RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run Vista very
>>> well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is what I
>>> consider to be decent quality.
>>>
>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00
>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00
>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00
>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00
>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00
>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00
>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00
>> No video or audio card? Are these Canadian or US dollars?
>
> CAD and USD are near par with each other, have been now for 4 months now or
> so. Ok, it fluxuates up and down but it so close it is like the Bank of
> Canada is managing it to be par.
>
>
>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised
>>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could
>>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any
>>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be
>>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is
>>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be another
>>> $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00. Maybe you
>>> should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live in Spain has
>>> impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is relative to where
>>> you live. The system specs would not be considered high end anywhere yet
>>> Vista runs with no problems on it.
>>>
>> Unfortunately, in Spain, you can't buy a copy of a generic OEM Vista (or
>> XP for that matter), only retail, unless you buy a complete computer. If I
>> wanted to buy another copy of Vista or XP, I would get a friend to buy it
>> in the States and send it to me.
>
> Here, almost everyone buys the OEM right off the shelf. In fact, one store
> I deal with, most retail/full versions are special order only. No one in
> their right mind is going to pay full retail for Ultimate Full
> Retail...anything.

It used to be that way here, too, until MS clamped down. Three computer
chains have confirmed that they were told by MS to only sell generic
OEMs with computers, including MS Office, or else.

>
>> That said, I didn't move to Spain for computer prices. I hate the cold and
>> where I live, there's sunshine at least 300 days a year and it never goes
>> under 5ºC so Canada is completely out of the question :-)
>>
>> Alias
>
> I hear you there. This is a weird year in Canada. Almost broke record low
> temperate a few months ago, -35C. Today, going to 33C and may well be
> record temperatures for the day. Screwy. I am contemplating Costa Rica
> myself. Snow I don't mind, but that cold just isn't very nice.

I hear Costa Rica is nice.

> You are better off in Spain. Maybe wait until you know someone going to
> Canada, Spain or UK and bring a more sanely priced copy back.

Oh, I have friends and family who can mail me what I want. Ready for
this? Levi's go for 120 euros here, each pair. That's $187 for a pair of
jeans! Needless to say, I get my people to send me clothes too -)

Alias
 
Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
> "Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message
> news:2E5A8BF6-8DA4-4129-B7D7-A88CF082CEB9@microsoft.com...
>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware
>>>>> long before it was released.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very
>>>>> good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista
>>>> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call
>>>> high end.
>>>>
>>>
>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware
>>> to build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the
>>> cost of buying retail Ultimate in Spain.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living
>> in the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is
>> high end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name
>> brand DDR2 RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run
>> Vista very well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is
>> what I consider to be decent quality.
>>
>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00
>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00
>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00
>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00
>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00
>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00
>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00
>>
>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised
>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could
>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any
>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be
>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is
>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be
>> another $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00.
>> Maybe you should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live
>> in Spain has impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is
>> relative to where you live. The system specs would not be considered
>> high end anywhere yet Vista runs with no problems on it.
>>
>> --
>> Kerry Brown
>> MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience: Systems Administration
>> http://www.vistahelp.ca/phpBB2/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Kerry
>
> Prices for everything are higher in Europe than in North America, and
> taxation plays its part.

So does MS' iron fist.

>
> Don't let Alias fool you into believing that Spain is a peasant country,
> because it is anything but peasant.

I have *never* said that. Frank has but I haven't. I live here and know.
Spain is growing by leaps and bounds.

> For sure some of the old ways of
> life still exist, but Spain is as technologically advanced as most
> countries, and has been the only European country growing over the last
> few years.

Do you think you saying something I don't know?
>
> They may not have the cheap computer fairs as in the UK, but one can get
> computers, parts and software at reasonable prices just as one can in
> other countries.

Parts, yes. MS software, no.

Alias
 
Alias wrote:

> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>
>> "Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message
>> news:2E5A8BF6-8DA4-4129-B7D7-A88CF082CEB9@microsoft.com...
>>
>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>
>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware
>>>>>> long before it was released.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very
>>>>>> good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with
>>>>> Vista Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what
>>>>> I'd call high end.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware
>>>> to build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the
>>>> cost of buying retail Ultimate in Spain.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living
>>> in the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is
>>> high end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name
>>> brand DDR2 RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will
>>> run Vista very well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware
>>> which is what I consider to be decent quality.
>>>
>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00
>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00
>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00
>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00
>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00
>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00
>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00
>>>
>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised
>>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could
>>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any
>>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be
>>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is
>>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be
>>> another $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00.
>>> Maybe you should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live
>>> in Spain has impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is
>>> relative to where you live. The system specs would not be considered
>>> high end anywhere yet Vista runs with no problems on it.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kerry Brown
>>> MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience: Systems Administration
>>> http://www.vistahelp.ca/phpBB2/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Kerry
>>
>> Prices for everything are higher in Europe than in North America, and
>> taxation plays its part.
>
>
> So does MS' iron fist.
>
>>
>> Don't let Alias fool you into believing that Spain is a peasant
>> country, because it is anything but peasant.
>
>
> I have *never* said that. Frank has but I haven't.

You're a lying POS ! I never ever said anything at all like that about
spain.

I live here and know.
> Spain is growing by leaps and bounds.
>
>> For sure some of the old ways of life still exist, but Spain is as
>> technologically advanced as most countries, and has been the only
>> European country growing over the last few years.
>
>
> Do you think you saying something I don't know?
>
>>
>> They may not have the cheap computer fairs as in the UK, but one can
>> get computers, parts and software at reasonable prices just as one can
>> in other countries.
>
>
> Parts, yes. MS software, no.
>
> Alias
 
"Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message
news:g0nlvg$rh5$2@aioe.org...
> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:g0n00k$984$1@aioe.org...
>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware
>>>>>>> long before it was released.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very
>>>>>>> good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista
>>>>>> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call
>>>>>> high end.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware
>>>>> to build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the
>>>>> cost of buying retail Ultimate in Spain.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living
>>>> in the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is
>>>> high end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name brand
>>>> DDR2 RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run Vista
>>>> very well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is what I
>>>> consider to be decent quality.
>>>>
>>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00
>>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00
>>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00
>>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00
>>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00
>>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00
>>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00
>>>
>>> No video or audio card? Are these Canadian or US dollars?
>>>
>>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised
>>>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could
>>>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any
>>>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be
>>>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is
>>>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be
>>>> another $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00.
>>>> Maybe you should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live
>>>> in Spain has impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is
>>>> relative to where you live. The system specs would not be considered
>>>> high end anywhere yet Vista runs with no problems on it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, in Spain, you can't buy a copy of a generic OEM Vista (or
>>> XP for that matter), only retail, unless you buy a complete computer. If
>>> I wanted to buy another copy of Vista or XP, I would get a friend to buy
>>> it in the States and send it to me.
>>>
>>> That said, I didn't move to Spain for computer prices. I hate the cold
>>> and where I live, there's sunshine at least 300 days a year and it never
>>> goes under 5ºC so Canada is completely out of the question :-)
>>>
>>> Alias
>>
>>
>> The more I see your answers to other people, the less I think that you
>> know about computers..
>>
>>
>
> Again, Mike plays the more knowledgeable than thou card like a true MS
> fanboy. Frank would be proud of you.
>
> Fact is, you know more than I and I know more than you.
>
> Alias


The fact is that I have also lived and worked in Spain, and France, and the
UK, and the US. You may be able to pull the wool over the eyes of some, but
you will not get away with doing it to me..


--
Mike Hall - MVP
How to construct a good post..
http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=newswhelp&style=toc
Mike's Window - My Blog..
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx
 
"Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message
news:g0npar$7o8$2@aioe.org...
> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>> "Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message
>> news:2E5A8BF6-8DA4-4129-B7D7-A88CF082CEB9@microsoft.com...
>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware long
>>>>>> before it was released.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very
>>>>>> good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista
>>>>> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call
>>>>> high end.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware to
>>>> build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the cost of
>>>> buying retail Ultimate in Spain.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living in
>>> the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is high
>>> end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name brand DDR2
>>> RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run Vista very
>>> well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is what I
>>> consider to be decent quality.
>>>
>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00
>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00
>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00
>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00
>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00
>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00
>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00
>>>
>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised
>>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could
>>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any
>>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be
>>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is
>>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be another
>>> $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00. Maybe you
>>> should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live in Spain has
>>> impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is relative to
>>> where you live. The system specs would not be considered high end
>>> anywhere yet Vista runs with no problems on it.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kerry Brown
>>> MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience: Systems Administration
>>> http://www.vistahelp.ca/phpBB2/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Kerry
>>
>> Prices for everything are higher in Europe than in North America, and
>> taxation plays its part.
>
> So does MS' iron fist.
>
>>
>> Don't let Alias fool you into believing that Spain is a peasant country,
>> because it is anything but peasant.
>
> I have *never* said that. Frank has but I haven't. I live here and know.
> Spain is growing by leaps and bounds.
>
>> For sure some of the old ways of life still exist, but Spain is as
>> technologically advanced as most countries, and has been the only
>> European country growing over the last few years.
>
> Do you think you saying something I don't know?
>>
>> They may not have the cheap computer fairs as in the UK, but one can get
>> computers, parts and software at reasonable prices just as one can in
>> other countries.
>
> Parts, yes. MS software, no.
>
> Alias


You once claimed that Vista was cheaper in some retail outlets, that one
didn't have to pay full recommended price everywhere..

So software isn't so bad, and cheap parts are readily available. And you
problem is?


--
Mike Hall - MVP
How to construct a good post..
http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=newswhelp&style=toc
Mike's Window - My Blog..
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx
 
"Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message
news:g0np3q$7o8$1@aioe.org...
> Canuck57 wrote:
>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:g0n00k$984$1@aioe.org...
>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware
>>>>>>> long before it was released.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very
>>>>>>> good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista
>>>>>> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call
>>>>>> high end.
>>>>>>
>>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware
>>>>> to build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the
>>>>> cost of buying retail Ultimate in Spain.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living
>>>> in the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is
>>>> high end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name brand
>>>> DDR2 RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run Vista
>>>> very well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is what I
>>>> consider to be decent quality.
>>>>
>>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00
>>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00
>>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00
>>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00
>>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00
>>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00
>>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00
>>> No video or audio card? Are these Canadian or US dollars?
>>
>> CAD and USD are near par with each other, have been now for 4 months now
>> or so. Ok, it fluxuates up and down but it so close it is like the Bank
>> of Canada is managing it to be par.
>>
>>
>>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised
>>>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could
>>>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any
>>>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be
>>>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is
>>>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be
>>>> another $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00.
>>>> Maybe you should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live
>>>> in Spain has impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is
>>>> relative to where you live. The system specs would not be considered
>>>> high end anywhere yet Vista runs with no problems on it.
>>>>
>>> Unfortunately, in Spain, you can't buy a copy of a generic OEM Vista (or
>>> XP for that matter), only retail, unless you buy a complete computer. If
>>> I wanted to buy another copy of Vista or XP, I would get a friend to buy
>>> it in the States and send it to me.
>>
>> Here, almost everyone buys the OEM right off the shelf. In fact, one
>> store I deal with, most retail/full versions are special order only. No
>> one in their right mind is going to pay full retail for Ultimate Full
>> Retail...anything.
>
> It used to be that way here, too, until MS clamped down. Three computer
> chains have confirmed that they were told by MS to only sell generic OEMs
> with computers, including MS Office, or else.
>
>>
>>> That said, I didn't move to Spain for computer prices. I hate the cold
>>> and where I live, there's sunshine at least 300 days a year and it never
>>> goes under 5ºC so Canada is completely out of the question :-)
>>>
>>> Alias
>>
>> I hear you there. This is a weird year in Canada. Almost broke record
>> low temperate a few months ago, -35C. Today, going to 33C and may well
>> be record temperatures for the day. Screwy. I am contemplating Costa
>> Rica myself. Snow I don't mind, but that cold just isn't very nice.
>
> I hear Costa Rica is nice.
>
>> You are better off in Spain. Maybe wait until you know someone going to
>> Canada, Spain or UK and bring a more sanely priced copy back.
>
> Oh, I have friends and family who can mail me what I want. Ready for this?
> Levi's go for 120 euros here, each pair. That's $187 for a pair of jeans!
> Needless to say, I get my people to send me clothes too -)
>
> Alias

Why not! Heck, that is a lot for jeans. Picked some up a few months ago,
$20 in the US each. US isn't that far from here and with NAFTA, you can buy
cars, often 20% cheaper. Have imported two myself. Thinking of a boat next
if the dealers get real.

But I hear the beaches, a bottle of rum, some chicks to look at, can't be
beat from Spain. Who cares about Vista with that in mind. No snow,
enticing. Are you an expate?
 
"Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@remove_mvps.com> wrote in message
news:%239py6bGuIHA.4376@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:g0n00k$984$1@aioe.org...
>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware long
>>>>>> before it was released.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very
>>>>>> good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista
>>>>> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call
>>>>> high end.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware to
>>>> build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the cost of
>>>> buying retail Ultimate in Spain.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living in
>>> the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is high
>>> end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name brand DDR2
>>> RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run Vista very
>>> well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is what I
>>> consider to be decent quality.
>>>
>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00
>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00
>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00
>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00
>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00
>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00
>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00
>>
>> No video or audio card? Are these Canadian or US dollars?
>>
>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised
>>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could
>>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any
>>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be
>>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is
>>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be another
>>> $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00. Maybe you
>>> should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live in Spain has
>>> impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is relative to
>>> where you live. The system specs would not be considered high end
>>> anywhere yet Vista runs with no problems on it.
>>>
>>
>> Unfortunately, in Spain, you can't buy a copy of a generic OEM Vista (or
>> XP for that matter), only retail, unless you buy a complete computer. If
>> I wanted to buy another copy of Vista or XP, I would get a friend to buy
>> it in the States and send it to me.
>>
>> That said, I didn't move to Spain for computer prices. I hate the cold
>> and where I live, there's sunshine at least 300 days a year and it never
>> goes under 5ºC so Canada is completely out of the question :-)
>>
>> Alias
>
>
> The more I see your answers to other people, the less I think that you
> know about computers..

Listen, he is in Spain. EU. They have to pay for the Microsoft anti-trust
conviction that the US didn't enforce. Predatory pricing and the like.

Nice adoption ground for Linux I bet. I wonder if I should take a Spanish
course, always liked the people.
 
"Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message
news:ACCA7C71-EDF0-48E4-9F41-B8D4E17907FD@microsoft.com...
> "Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote in message
> news:UlGXj.146998$Cj7.110714@pd7urf2no...
>>
>> "Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message
>> news:2E5A8BF6-8DA4-4129-B7D7-A88CF082CEB9@microsoft.com...
>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware long
>>>>>> before it was released.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very
>>>>>> good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista
>>>>> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call
>>>>> high end.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware to
>>>> build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the cost of
>>>> buying retail Ultimate in Spain.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living in
>>> the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is high
>>> end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name brand DDR2
>>> RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run Vista very
>>> well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is what I
>>> consider to be decent quality.
>>>
>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00
>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00
>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00
>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00
>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00
>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00
>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00
>>>
>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised
>>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could
>>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any
>>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be
>>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is
>>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be another
>>> $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00. Maybe you
>>> should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live in Spain has
>>> impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is relative to
>>> where you live. The system specs would not be considered high end
>>> anywhere yet Vista runs with no problems on it.
>>
>> You are quoting OEM versions. He is talking the full retail. You know,
>> the better ones that are complete and recoverable. You also are without
>> office tools. Add in business or ultimate office tools you are well over
>> the $1000, more than twice the price of the total hardware package.
>
> Generic OEM disks are a full install just like a retail disk. You may be
> thinking of the large OEMs like Dell and HP. I wouldn't wish that user
> experience on anyone. They install so much crap even a Quad Core would
> struggle. As for Office you are the first person to mention it. I don't
> see it anywhere else in the thread. Open Office runs equally well on Vista
> or Linux so there's no difference there. If you need Microsoft Office then
> despite what people say about Wine you really need a Microsoft OS to run
> it properly.

Never have run MS-Office under wine, always use Open Office. It does run
equally as well on multiple platforms, which is great in my profession.


>> Me, got a Q6600, 4GB RAM, 22" wide LCD, 500GB drive, Vista (not so)
>> Premium x64 OEM, keyboard, mouse, cables, $749 at Best Buy. No assembly
>> required and a warranty. But I did a refit, to 8GB RAM, 2nd hard drive
>> and a dedicated 8500GT 256M fanless video.
>>
>> Runs Vista like a pig (file/network copy specifically), but Ubuntu with
>> Compiz, smoking hot and fast.
>>
>
> Then something is wrong. I dual boot Ubuntu and Vista Business on this
> laptop. They run about the same speed doing the same tasks. If anything
> the Vista Atheros wireless driver is a little faster than the MadWifi
> driver in Ubuntu so wireless is a bit faster in Vista on this machine.
> Other than that I don't notice much difference other than the UI. Both
> have been very stable with few problems.

Where I hit problems that really gets me can be summed up as:

- copy disk to disk, large files, painfully slow compared to XP or Linux.
- copy to/from the network, again, painfully slow
- CIFS shares, haven't got them working with Samba (yet).
- they still haven't fixed 8 year old bugs in Express/Mail.

Running Fedora or Ubuntu on the same hardware does not show the same issues.
Seems very Vista specific. And with Linux, can use NFS native for the media
storage and quick...

My 3 year old XP, no problems, but it is different hardware but older/slower
hardware. IDE versus SATA etc.

On my laptop, the Atheros driver works like lighting using Ubuntu, Fedora or
OpenBSD. But haven't tried it with Vista. Given my laptop has only 512M,
that would be a time waster to bring Vista near it.

For network though, I did pull up Vista performance monitor of sorts, square
topped at 5mbs on a 100MBS network. Never could get it to do better. Tied
dozens of things. I may be extra sensitive to this as I routinely copy
around DVD sized ISO/zip images. And Vista, not liveable. XP was always
slower than Linux, but comparable. Vista, slugware.

Didn't have any Vista crashes though. This part of Vista, never
experienced. Stable yes, slow, yes. Incompatible yes. Keeping my XP alive
and running. And don't have to update VMWare. Treating Vista as a sunk
unrecoverable cost on the last PC. MS tax if you will. Only real value was
if a customer needs me to use it I will not be blank faced.
 
"Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@remove_mvps.com> wrote in message
news:eJxDSbGuIHA.4528@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> "Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message
> news:2E5A8BF6-8DA4-4129-B7D7-A88CF082CEB9@microsoft.com...
>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware long
>>>>> before it was released.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very good
>>>>> job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista
>>>> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call
>>>> high end.
>>>>
>>>
>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware to
>>> build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the cost of
>>> buying retail Ultimate in Spain.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living in
>> the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is high
>> end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name brand DDR2
>> RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run Vista very
>> well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is what I
>> consider to be decent quality.
>>
>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00
>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00
>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00
>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00
>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00
>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00
>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00
>>
>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised
>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could
>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any
>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be
>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is
>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be another
>> $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00. Maybe you
>> should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live in Spain has
>> impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is relative to where
>> you live. The system specs would not be considered high end anywhere yet
>> Vista runs with no problems on it.
>>
>> --
>> Kerry Brown
>> MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience: Systems Administration
>> http://www.vistahelp.ca/phpBB2/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Kerry
>
> Prices for everything are higher in Europe than in North America, and
> taxation plays its part.
>
> Don't let Alias fool you into believing that Spain is a peasant country,
> because it is anything but peasant. For sure some of the old ways of life
> still exist, but Spain is as technologically advanced as most countries,
> and has been the only European country growing over the last few years.
>
> They may not have the cheap computer fairs as in the UK, but one can get
> computers, parts and software at reasonable prices just as one can in
> other countries.

First, Canada has a tax treaty called NAFTA. Explain:
- why is MS products 20-30% higher in Canada, it isn't taxes.
- why will US companies sell books, PCs but not MS over the border?

Abet, we don't get so screwed as Spain. But if it is local retailers, why
not let the users just download it, spit them a PDF with keys and have one
(legal) price for the whole world and not this price fixing?

Cuts out the middle man too. Shrink wrap is so last century. I don't even
load Solaris with physical CD/DVDs any more. Haven't for three years.
Ditto Linux. (Yes, Linux loads over a network).

Taiwan, real cheap. Eee PC, special price, abet not Vista fatware but XP
re-incarnated. You know, the defunct OS. I can get Eee PCs here in Canada
for the same price as California, XP or Linux. BTW, over a million Eee PCs
with Linux sold. That extra memory is nice.

Come now...Microsoft is no longer competitive and is predatory in pricing.
Bet I could buy a copy of XP (english) legal cheaper in the orient than in
the US, even Redmond.

MS is digging its grave.
 
Canuck57 wrote:
> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:g0np3q$7o8$1@aioe.org...
>> Canuck57 wrote:
>>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:g0n00k$984$1@aioe.org...
>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware
>>>>>>>> long before it was released.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very
>>>>>>>> good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista
>>>>>>> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call
>>>>>>> high end.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware
>>>>>> to build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the
>>>>>> cost of buying retail Ultimate in Spain.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living
>>>>> in the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is
>>>>> high end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name brand
>>>>> DDR2 RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run Vista
>>>>> very well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is what I
>>>>> consider to be decent quality.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00
>>>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00
>>>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00
>>>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00
>>>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00
>>>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00
>>>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00
>>>> No video or audio card? Are these Canadian or US dollars?
>>> CAD and USD are near par with each other, have been now for 4 months now
>>> or so. Ok, it fluxuates up and down but it so close it is like the Bank
>>> of Canada is managing it to be par.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised
>>>>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could
>>>>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any
>>>>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be
>>>>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is
>>>>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be
>>>>> another $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00.
>>>>> Maybe you should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live
>>>>> in Spain has impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is
>>>>> relative to where you live. The system specs would not be considered
>>>>> high end anywhere yet Vista runs with no problems on it.
>>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, in Spain, you can't buy a copy of a generic OEM Vista (or
>>>> XP for that matter), only retail, unless you buy a complete computer. If
>>>> I wanted to buy another copy of Vista or XP, I would get a friend to buy
>>>> it in the States and send it to me.
>>> Here, almost everyone buys the OEM right off the shelf. In fact, one
>>> store I deal with, most retail/full versions are special order only. No
>>> one in their right mind is going to pay full retail for Ultimate Full
>>> Retail...anything.
>> It used to be that way here, too, until MS clamped down. Three computer
>> chains have confirmed that they were told by MS to only sell generic OEMs
>> with computers, including MS Office, or else.
>>
>>>> That said, I didn't move to Spain for computer prices. I hate the cold
>>>> and where I live, there's sunshine at least 300 days a year and it never
>>>> goes under 5ºC so Canada is completely out of the question :-)
>>>>
>>>> Alias
>>> I hear you there. This is a weird year in Canada. Almost broke record
>>> low temperate a few months ago, -35C. Today, going to 33C and may well
>>> be record temperatures for the day. Screwy. I am contemplating Costa
>>> Rica myself. Snow I don't mind, but that cold just isn't very nice.
>> I hear Costa Rica is nice.
>>
>>> You are better off in Spain. Maybe wait until you know someone going to
>>> Canada, Spain or UK and bring a more sanely priced copy back.
>> Oh, I have friends and family who can mail me what I want. Ready for this?
>> Levi's go for 120 euros here, each pair. That's $187 for a pair of jeans!
>> Needless to say, I get my people to send me clothes too -)
>>
>> Alias
>
> Why not! Heck, that is a lot for jeans. Picked some up a few months ago,
> $20 in the US each. US isn't that far from here and with NAFTA, you can buy
> cars, often 20% cheaper. Have imported two myself. Thinking of a boat next
> if the dealers get real.
>
> But I hear the beaches, a bottle of rum, some chicks to look at, can't be
> beat from Spain. Who cares about Vista with that in mind. No snow,
> enticing. Are you an expat?
>
>

Yes, married to a Spanish lady. I have a green card :-)

Alias
 
Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:g0nlvg$rh5$2@aioe.org...
>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:g0n00k$984$1@aioe.org...
>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware
>>>>>>>> long before it was released.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a
>>>>>>>> very good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with
>>>>>>> Vista Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what
>>>>>>> I'd call high end.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap
>>>>>> hardware to build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even
>>>>>> cover the cost of buying retail Ultimate in Spain.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are
>>>>> living in the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of
>>>>> RAM is high end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of
>>>>> name brand DDR2 RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that
>>>>> will run Vista very well and is easily under $500.00 for the
>>>>> hardware which is what I consider to be decent quality.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00
>>>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00
>>>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00
>>>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00
>>>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00
>>>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00
>>>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00
>>>>
>>>> No video or audio card? Are these Canadian or US dollars?
>>>>
>>>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all
>>>>> recognised brand names. If you're not particular about where you
>>>>> shop you could probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end.
>>>>> It will run any edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The
>>>>> system will be stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista
>>>>> Home Premium is $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen
>>>>> LCD would be another $200.00. The complete system with Vista
>>>>> Ultimate is $865.00. Maybe you should move to Canada. It sounds
>>>>> like your decision to live in Spain has impacted your computing
>>>>> experience. In any case cost is relative to where you live. The
>>>>> system specs would not be considered high end anywhere yet Vista
>>>>> runs with no problems on it.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, in Spain, you can't buy a copy of a generic OEM Vista
>>>> (or XP for that matter), only retail, unless you buy a complete
>>>> computer. If I wanted to buy another copy of Vista or XP, I would
>>>> get a friend to buy it in the States and send it to me.
>>>>
>>>> That said, I didn't move to Spain for computer prices. I hate the
>>>> cold and where I live, there's sunshine at least 300 days a year and
>>>> it never goes under 5ºC so Canada is completely out of the question :-)
>>>>
>>>> Alias
>>>
>>>
>>> The more I see your answers to other people, the less I think that
>>> you know about computers..
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Again, Mike plays the more knowledgeable than thou card like a true MS
>> fanboy. Frank would be proud of you.
>>
>> Fact is, you know more than I and I know more than you.
>>
>> Alias
>
>
> The fact is that I have also lived and worked in Spain, and France, and
> the UK, and the US. You may be able to pull the wool over the eyes of
> some, but you will not get away with doing it to me..
>
>

You've made two claims:

1. I don't know anything about computers

and

2. I am pulling the wool over the eyes of some.

Can you explain or are you like Frank and just insult people because you
can?

Alias
 
Canuck57 wrote:
> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@remove_mvps.com> wrote in message
> news:%239py6bGuIHA.4376@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:g0n00k$984$1@aioe.org...
>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware long
>>>>>>> before it was released.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very
>>>>>>> good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista
>>>>>> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call
>>>>>> high end.
>>>>>>
>>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware to
>>>>> build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the cost of
>>>>> buying retail Ultimate in Spain.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living in
>>>> the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is high
>>>> end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name brand DDR2
>>>> RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run Vista very
>>>> well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is what I
>>>> consider to be decent quality.
>>>>
>>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00
>>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00
>>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00
>>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00
>>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00
>>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00
>>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00
>>> No video or audio card? Are these Canadian or US dollars?
>>>
>>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised
>>>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could
>>>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any
>>>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be
>>>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is
>>>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be another
>>>> $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00. Maybe you
>>>> should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live in Spain has
>>>> impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is relative to
>>>> where you live. The system specs would not be considered high end
>>>> anywhere yet Vista runs with no problems on it.
>>>>
>>> Unfortunately, in Spain, you can't buy a copy of a generic OEM Vista (or
>>> XP for that matter), only retail, unless you buy a complete computer. If
>>> I wanted to buy another copy of Vista or XP, I would get a friend to buy
>>> it in the States and send it to me.
>>>
>>> That said, I didn't move to Spain for computer prices. I hate the cold
>>> and where I live, there's sunshine at least 300 days a year and it never
>>> goes under 5ºC so Canada is completely out of the question :-)
>>>
>>> Alias
>>
>> The more I see your answers to other people, the less I think that you
>> know about computers..
>
> Listen, he is in Spain. EU. They have to pay for the Microsoft anti-trust
> conviction that the US didn't enforce. Predatory pricing and the like.
>
> Nice adoption ground for Linux I bet. I wonder if I should take a Spanish
> course, always liked the people.
>
>

In the last year, I have seen Ubuntu discussed in magazines, newspapers
and TV. I asked the computer chains which OS was requested the most. XP
was first, followed by Ubuntu and Vista.

If you're serious about Spain, send me an email.

Alias
 
Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:g0npar$7o8$2@aioe.org...
>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>>> "Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message
>>> news:2E5A8BF6-8DA4-4129-B7D7-A88CF082CEB9@microsoft.com...
>>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware
>>>>>>> long before it was released.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very
>>>>>>> good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with
>>>>>> Vista Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what
>>>>>> I'd call high end.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap
>>>>> hardware to build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even
>>>>> cover the cost of buying retail Ultimate in Spain.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are
>>>> living in the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of
>>>> RAM is high end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of
>>>> name brand DDR2 RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that
>>>> will run Vista very well and is easily under $500.00 for the
>>>> hardware which is what I consider to be decent quality.
>>>>
>>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00
>>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00
>>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00
>>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00
>>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00
>>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00
>>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00
>>>>
>>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all
>>>> recognised brand names. If you're not particular about where you
>>>> shop you could probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end.
>>>> It will run any edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The
>>>> system will be stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista
>>>> Home Premium is $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen
>>>> LCD would be another $200.00. The complete system with Vista
>>>> Ultimate is $865.00. Maybe you should move to Canada. It sounds like
>>>> your decision to live in Spain has impacted your computing
>>>> experience. In any case cost is relative to where you live. The
>>>> system specs would not be considered high end anywhere yet Vista
>>>> runs with no problems on it.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kerry Brown
>>>> MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience: Systems Administration
>>>> http://www.vistahelp.ca/phpBB2/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kerry
>>>
>>> Prices for everything are higher in Europe than in North America, and
>>> taxation plays its part.
>>
>> So does MS' iron fist.
>>
>>>
>>> Don't let Alias fool you into believing that Spain is a peasant
>>> country, because it is anything but peasant.
>>
>> I have *never* said that. Frank has but I haven't. I live here and
>> know. Spain is growing by leaps and bounds.
>>
>>> For sure some of the old ways of life still exist, but Spain is as
>>> technologically advanced as most countries, and has been the only
>>> European country growing over the last few years.
>>
>> Do you think you saying something I don't know?
>>>
>>> They may not have the cheap computer fairs as in the UK, but one can
>>> get computers, parts and software at reasonable prices just as one
>>> can in other countries.
>>
>> Parts, yes. MS software, no.
>>
>> Alias
>
>
> You once claimed that Vista was cheaper in some retail outlets, that one
> didn't have to pay full recommended price everywhere..

No, I didn't. I said that if you buy it wholesale, it's cheaper.
Nonetheless, it's still cheaper in the US to buy a generic OEM than a
generic OEM here. I have a license to buy wholesale, which means I can
buy generic OEMs. Most people do not.

>
> So software isn't so bad, and cheap parts are readily available. And you
> problem is?

My problem isn't with Spain but Microsoft for their discriminating and
unfair pricing tactics.

Alias
 
"Frank" <fb@sto.clm> wrote in message
news:482f6e29$0$5694$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Alias wrote:
>
>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>>
>>> "Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message
>>> news:2E5A8BF6-8DA4-4129-B7D7-A88CF082CEB9@microsoft.com...
>>>
>>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>>
>>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware
>>>>>>> long before it was released.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very
>>>>>>> good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista
>>>>>> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call
>>>>>> high end.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware
>>>>> to build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the
>>>>> cost of buying retail Ultimate in Spain.

You can buy it for $10 in Moscow and that's the corporate version that
doesn't have to be activated.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living
>>>> in the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is
>>>> high end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name brand
>>>> DDR2 RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run Vista
>>>> very well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is what I
>>>> consider to be decent quality.

You are correct, without a monitor that's all it should cost. You can buy a
good HP computer with a 22" monitor at Walmart for $800


>>>>
>>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00
>>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00
>>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00
>>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00
>>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00
>>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00
>>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00
>>>>
>>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised
>>>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could
>>>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any
>>>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be
>>>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is
>>>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be
>>>> another $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00.
>>>> Maybe you should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live
>>>> in Spain has impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is
>>>> relative to where you live. The system specs would not be considered
>>>> high end anywhere yet Vista runs with no problems on it.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kerry Brown
>>>> MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience: Systems Administration
>>>> http://www.vistahelp.ca/phpBB2/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kerry
>>>
>>> Prices for everything are higher in Europe than in North America, and
>>> taxation plays its part.
>>
>>
>> So does MS' iron fist.
>>
>>>
>>> Don't let Alias fool you into believing that Spain is a peasant country,
>>> because it is anything but peasant.
>>
>>
>> I have *never* said that. Frank has but I haven't.
>
> You're a lying POS ! I never ever said anything at all like that about
> spain.
>
> I live here and know.
>> Spain is growing by leaps and bounds.
>>
>>> For sure some of the old ways of life still exist, but Spain is as
>>> technologically advanced as most countries, and has been the only
>>> European country growing over the last few years.
>>
>>
>> Do you think you saying something I don't know?
>>
>>>
>>> They may not have the cheap computer fairs as in the UK, but one can get
>>> computers, parts and software at reasonable prices just as one can in
>>> other countries.
>>
>>
>> Parts, yes. MS software, no.
>>
>> Alias
 
"Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message
news:g0opri$di3$1@aioe.org...
> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:g0npar$7o8$2@aioe.org...
>>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>>>> "Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message
>>>> news:2E5A8BF6-8DA4-4129-B7D7-A88CF082CEB9@microsoft.com...
>>>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware
>>>>>>>> long before it was released.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very
>>>>>>>> good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista
>>>>>>> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call
>>>>>>> high end.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware
>>>>>> to build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the
>>>>>> cost of buying retail Ultimate in Spain.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living
>>>>> in the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is
>>>>> high end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name
>>>>> brand DDR2 RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run
>>>>> Vista very well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is
>>>>> what I consider to be decent quality.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00
>>>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00
>>>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00
>>>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00
>>>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00
>>>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00
>>>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00
>>>>>
>>>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised
>>>>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could
>>>>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any
>>>>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be
>>>>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is
>>>>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be
>>>>> another $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00.
>>>>> Maybe you should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live
>>>>> in Spain has impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is
>>>>> relative to where you live. The system specs would not be considered
>>>>> high end anywhere yet Vista runs with no problems on it.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kerry Brown
>>>>> MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience: Systems Administration
>>>>> http://www.vistahelp.ca/phpBB2/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kerry
>>>>
>>>> Prices for everything are higher in Europe than in North America, and
>>>> taxation plays its part.
>>>
>>> So does MS' iron fist.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Don't let Alias fool you into believing that Spain is a peasant
>>>> country, because it is anything but peasant.
>>>
>>> I have *never* said that. Frank has but I haven't. I live here and know.
>>> Spain is growing by leaps and bounds.


Frank has never been out of Podunk, USA
>>>
>>>> For sure some of the old ways of life still exist, but Spain is as
>>>> technologically advanced as most countries, and has been the only
>>>> European country growing over the last few years.
>>>
>>> Do you think you saying something I don't know?

You don't ,fatboy



>>>>
>>>> They may not have the cheap computer fairs as in the UK, but one can
>>>> get computers, parts and software at reasonable prices just as one can
>>>> in other countries.
>>>
>>> Parts, yes. MS software, no.
>>>
>>> Alias
>>
>>
>> You once claimed that Vista was cheaper in some retail outlets, that one
>> didn't have to pay full recommended price everywhere..
>
> No, I didn't. I said that if you buy it wholesale, it's cheaper.

And if you use the corporate version it's 0 haha



> Nonetheless, it's still cheaper in the US to buy a generic OEM than a
> generic OEM here. I have a license to buy wholesale, which means I can buy
> generic OEMs. Most people do not.
>
>>
>> So software isn't so bad, and cheap parts are readily available. And you
>> problem is?
>
> My problem isn't with Spain but Microsoft for their discriminating and
> unfair pricing tactics.
>
> Alias
 
"Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message
news:g0opc1$b9u$1@aioe.org...
> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:g0nlvg$rh5$2@aioe.org...
>>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>>>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:g0n00k$984$1@aioe.org...
>>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware
>>>>>>>>> long before it was released.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very
>>>>>>>>> good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with
>>>>>>>> Vista Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what
>>>>>>>> I'd call high end.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware
>>>>>>> to build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the
>>>>>>> cost of buying retail Ultimate in Spain.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living
>>>>>> in the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is
>>>>>> high end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name
>>>>>> brand DDR2 RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will
>>>>>> run Vista very well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware
>>>>>> which is what I consider to be decent quality.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00
>>>>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00
>>>>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00
>>>>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00
>>>>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00
>>>>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00
>>>>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00
>>>>>
>>>>> No video or audio card? Are these Canadian or US dollars?
>>>>>
>>>>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised
>>>>>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could
>>>>>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any
>>>>>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be
>>>>>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is
>>>>>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be
>>>>>> another $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00.
>>>>>> Maybe you should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live
>>>>>> in Spain has impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is
>>>>>> relative to where you live. The system specs would not be considered
>>>>>> high end anywhere yet Vista runs with no problems on it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately, in Spain, you can't buy a copy of a generic OEM Vista
>>>>> (or XP for that matter), only retail, unless you buy a complete
>>>>> computer. If I wanted to buy another copy of Vista or XP, I would get
>>>>> a friend to buy it in the States and send it to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> That said, I didn't move to Spain for computer prices. I hate the cold
>>>>> and where I live, there's sunshine at least 300 days a year and it
>>>>> never goes under 5ºC so Canada is completely out of the question :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Alias
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The more I see your answers to other people, the less I think that you
>>>> know about computers..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Again, Mike plays the more knowledgeable than thou card like a true MS
>>> fanboy. Frank would be proud of you.
>>>
>>> Fact is, you know more than I and I know more than you.
>>>
>>> Alias
>>
>>
>> The fact is that I have also lived and worked in Spain, and France, and
>> the UK, and the US. You may be able to pull the wool over the eyes of
>> some, but you will not get away with doing it to me..
>>
>>
>
> You've made two claims:
>
> 1. I don't know anything about computers
>
> and
>
> 2. I am pulling the wool over the eyes of some.
>
> Can you explain or are you like Frank and just insult people because you
> can?
>
> Alias


When you responded to Kerry initially with "no video card, no sound card?',
that showed that you didn't know that virtually all motherboards, especially
at the cheaper end, invariably have integrated video, sound, LAN. If you
worked on computers, you would know this, whether in the US or EU.

Re prices, the US has always had cheap prices compared to the rest of the
world. It isn't just Microsoft. Europeans have traditionally paid double the
price that Americans pay for any commodity/product. I understand that
Australia is even worse.

--
Mike Hall - MVP
How to construct a good post..
http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=newswhelp&style=toc
Mike's Window - My Blog..
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx
 

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