XP *and* Vista co-exist in the market?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Steve Thackery
  • Start date Start date
"the wharf rat" <wrat@panix.com> wrote in message
news:g0k0ug$1f1$1@reader2.panix.com...
> Because Vista requires that you purchase new hardware and new software
> in addition to the new operating system. That makes Microsoft business
> partners
> and subsidiaries happy. Microsoft is far more concerned with keeping
> those
> entities happy than with anything a customer might think.
>

Except when Microsoft starts including products it's partners provide with
Windows... Zip, Moving Making, Calendar, Sidebar anyone? They can't win.
They include extra bits and get accused of monopolizing, they don't add
stuff, so you need to go and buy it, and they're sucking up to business
partners.

Marc
 
One company where I worked I was assigned to offer technical support for
products that were no longer produced. The company understood the value of
keeping "older" customers happy who were waiting for extra money in their
budget to purchase the company's newest gear. (The gear we designed and
produced was microprocessor based scientific measuring instruments.) The
customer who still used our older equipment had to pay for the technical
support since their warranties expired after 2 years of purchase. The trick
in getting the older customers to come back to us and purchase the newer gear
was for the company to design and manufacture gear that was superior to the
older versions AND superior to the competition's. Eventually the company that
I worked for could not keep up with the competition. It could not compete
price-wise and quality-wise in the market place. I had quit my job before the
company went under.

How this story pertains to Microsoft:

I have XP and Vista. I am slowly beginning to see the superior advantages of
Vista over XP. It was not immediate because XP pretty much fullfilled my
computering needs. But Vista is now showing me how I can get some of these
jobs done faster. The reason I went to Vista was because I saw how Microsoft
was constantly trying to improve XP. (And they did.) It seemed to me that
Microsoft was serious about fixing their OS and competing in the marketplace
and I took a chance on Vista. I'm glad that I did.

Microsoft is at a critical point where they have to keep their current XP
customers happy.

I figure Microsoft will support XP for several years even if they
discontinue producing and selling it. Microsoft customers will eventually
gravitate towards XP or Apple. It would be a humongous marketing blunder for
Microsoft to leave their XP customers out in the cold.

oscar


"Steve Thackery" wrote:

> > In the end, Microsoft will sell up to 3 OSes for 1 PC bought today.
>
> Canuck, I don't think I really buy your "conspiracy theory" version of
> Microsoft's Vista marketing tactics - selling you a crap OS so you have to
> upgrade once or twice more. I think Vista is below par for three reasons:
>
> 1/ The current code base has "gone critical" - much of it is top heavy,
> messy, riddled with legacy workarounds and compatibility bodges, and has
> become almost unmaintainable (although see my next note).
>
> 2/ MS abandoned the development program for what would have been XP's
> successor in 2003, after having already invested a few years of development
> in it. The reason was Microsoft's belated realisation of the serious
> security flaws in their current OS architecture. In fact Vista was begun
> again, almost from scratch - based in no small part on Server 2003 code. So
> basically Vista was knocked together in a real hurry.
>
> 3/ I get the impression that some of the key, top personnel may have moved
> into different roles, leaving the Vista development team somewhat less
> competent that it should have been. For instance, although the UI is better
> than XP's (in my opinion), it is riddled with inelegancies and
> inconstencies, suggesting it really wasn't properly thought through. And
> the file copying debacle is a classic example of incompetence: at RTM is was
> bloodly hopeless, and even now, after SP1, it's still not as good as XP.
> They "fixed" something that nobody thought was broken.
>
> The first two points are easily confirmed just by reading various insider
> blogs. The third is mostly just an impression I've got by reading between
> the lines, and using Vista myself since it came out.
>
> I don't think MS would deliberately release a below-par product, intending
> you to pay again to get a fixed version. I don't think they would take such
> a risky strategy now that there is significant competition in almost every
> area they play in.
>
> The best way to keep customers - I would suggest - is to do what Apple do.
> They release a product which everybody thinks is superb, and make the next
> product even better, and so on. By doing that they build up a committed
> customer base who thing Apple walks on water, and who keep coming back for
> more. I bet MS would like to do that if they could.
>
> I think Microsoft's OS team has lost the plot - no more, no less.
>
> SteveT
>
>
 
"Alias" <iamalias@removegmail.com> wrote in message
news:g0kjuk$otu$2@aioe.org...
> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:eoeqWC3tIHA.2292@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>>>> "the wharf rat" <wrat@panix.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:g0k0ug$1f1$1@reader2.panix.com...
>>>>> In article <u6ihweztIHA.1936@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>,
>>>>> Steve Thackery <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Obviously the marketing machine in Microsoft isn't stupid, and they
>>>>>> must
>>>>>> have considered this. Does anyone know - or have an opinion - on why
>>>>>> Microsoft are forcing their customers to use Vista after next month,
>>>>>> even if
>>>>>> it makes the customer unhappy?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Because Vista requires that you purchase new hardware and new software
>>>>> in addition to the new operating system. That makes Microsoft
>>>>> business partners
>>>>> and subsidiaries happy. Microsoft is far more concerned with keeping
>>>>> those
>>>>> entities happy than with anything a customer might think.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am running the same hardware setup that I had for XP..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Oh, so you're using Vista Basic?
>>>
>>> Alias
>>
>>
>> Nope.. I am running Vista Ultimate.. all bells and whistles..
>>
>>
>
> So you bought the machine knowing that you would need it for Vista. Enough
> said and thanks for stepping into the trap.
>
> Alias


Are you on strong medications?

Any machine supplied with MCE 2005 is well up to the task of running Vista.
Many hobbyists and all serious gamers had machines which would be more than
enough to run Vista.

Mine was not supplied with MCE 2005 (it is a home build), neither is it a
serious gaming machine.

I stepped in no trap, but you are still using FUD to discredit Vista..

--
Mike Hall - MVP
How to construct a good post..
http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=newswhelp&style=toc
Mike's Window - My Blog..
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx
 
Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
> "Alias" <iamalias@removegmail.com> wrote in message
> news:g0kjuk$otu$2@aioe.org...
>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:eoeqWC3tIHA.2292@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>>>>> "the wharf rat" <wrat@panix.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:g0k0ug$1f1$1@reader2.panix.com...
>>>>>> In article <u6ihweztIHA.1936@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>,
>>>>>> Steve Thackery <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Obviously the marketing machine in Microsoft isn't stupid, and
>>>>>>> they must
>>>>>>> have considered this. Does anyone know - or have an opinion - on
>>>>>>> why
>>>>>>> Microsoft are forcing their customers to use Vista after next
>>>>>>> month, even if
>>>>>>> it makes the customer unhappy?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because Vista requires that you purchase new hardware and new
>>>>>> software
>>>>>> in addition to the new operating system. That makes Microsoft
>>>>>> business partners
>>>>>> and subsidiaries happy. Microsoft is far more concerned with
>>>>>> keeping those
>>>>>> entities happy than with anything a customer might think.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I am running the same hardware setup that I had for XP..
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Oh, so you're using Vista Basic?
>>>>
>>>> Alias
>>>
>>>
>>> Nope.. I am running Vista Ultimate.. all bells and whistles..
>>>
>>>
>>
>> So you bought the machine knowing that you would need it for Vista.
>> Enough said and thanks for stepping into the trap.
>>
>> Alias
>
>
> Are you on strong medications?
>
> Any machine supplied with MCE 2005 is well up to the task of running
> Vista. Many hobbyists and all serious gamers had machines which would be
> more than enough to run Vista.
>
> Mine was not supplied with MCE 2005 (it is a home build), neither is it
> a serious gaming machine.
>
> I stepped in no trap, but you are still using FUD to discredit Vista..
>

Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware long
before it was released.

I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very good
job all by itself and doesn't need my help.

Alias
 
"Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message
news:g0m7ge$4kh$1@aioe.org...
> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>> "Alias" <iamalias@removegmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:g0kjuk$otu$2@aioe.org...
>>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>>>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:eoeqWC3tIHA.2292@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>>>>>> "the wharf rat" <wrat@panix.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:g0k0ug$1f1$1@reader2.panix.com...
>>>>>>> In article <u6ihweztIHA.1936@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>,
>>>>>>> Steve Thackery <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Obviously the marketing machine in Microsoft isn't stupid, and they
>>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>>> have considered this. Does anyone know - or have an opinion - on
>>>>>>>> why
>>>>>>>> Microsoft are forcing their customers to use Vista after next
>>>>>>>> month, even if
>>>>>>>> it makes the customer unhappy?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Because Vista requires that you purchase new hardware and new
>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>> in addition to the new operating system. That makes Microsoft
>>>>>>> business partners
>>>>>>> and subsidiaries happy. Microsoft is far more concerned with
>>>>>>> keeping those
>>>>>>> entities happy than with anything a customer might think.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am running the same hardware setup that I had for XP..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, so you're using Vista Basic?
>>>>>
>>>>> Alias
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nope.. I am running Vista Ultimate.. all bells and whistles..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> So you bought the machine knowing that you would need it for Vista.
>>> Enough said and thanks for stepping into the trap.
>>>
>>> Alias
>>
>>
>> Are you on strong medications?
>>
>> Any machine supplied with MCE 2005 is well up to the task of running
>> Vista. Many hobbyists and all serious gamers had machines which would be
>> more than enough to run Vista.
>>
>> Mine was not supplied with MCE 2005 (it is a home build), neither is it a
>> serious gaming machine.
>>
>> I stepped in no trap, but you are still using FUD to discredit Vista..
>>
>
> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware long
> before it was released.
>
> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very good job
> all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>
> Alias


But I don't have high end hardware. Single core AMD 3500, and 2gb RAM and a
256mb nVidia 6600 video card which I bought to play my games because they
were not good with the motherboard integrated video..

You have no idea what you are talking about, and you make it up as you go
along. You are a FUD spreader..


--
Mike Hall - MVP
How to construct a good post..
http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=newswhelp&style=toc
Mike's Window - My Blog..
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx
 
Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:g0m7ge$4kh$1@aioe.org...
>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>>> "Alias" <iamalias@removegmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:g0kjuk$otu$2@aioe.org...
>>>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>>>>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:eoeqWC3tIHA.2292@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>>>>>>> "the wharf rat" <wrat@panix.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:g0k0ug$1f1$1@reader2.panix.com...
>>>>>>>> In article <u6ihweztIHA.1936@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>,
>>>>>>>> Steve Thackery <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Obviously the marketing machine in Microsoft isn't stupid, and
>>>>>>>>> they must
>>>>>>>>> have considered this. Does anyone know - or have an opinion -
>>>>>>>>> on why
>>>>>>>>> Microsoft are forcing their customers to use Vista after next
>>>>>>>>> month, even if
>>>>>>>>> it makes the customer unhappy?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Because Vista requires that you purchase new hardware and new
>>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>>> in addition to the new operating system. That makes Microsoft
>>>>>>>> business partners
>>>>>>>> and subsidiaries happy. Microsoft is far more concerned with
>>>>>>>> keeping those
>>>>>>>> entities happy than with anything a customer might think.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am running the same hardware setup that I had for XP..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh, so you're using Vista Basic?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alias
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope.. I am running Vista Ultimate.. all bells and whistles..
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So you bought the machine knowing that you would need it for Vista.
>>>> Enough said and thanks for stepping into the trap.
>>>>
>>>> Alias
>>>
>>>
>>> Are you on strong medications?
>>>
>>> Any machine supplied with MCE 2005 is well up to the task of running
>>> Vista. Many hobbyists and all serious gamers had machines which would
>>> be more than enough to run Vista.
>>>
>>> Mine was not supplied with MCE 2005 (it is a home build), neither is
>>> it a serious gaming machine.
>>>
>>> I stepped in no trap, but you are still using FUD to discredit Vista..
>>>
>>
>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware long
>> before it was released.
>>
>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very good
>> job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>
>> Alias
>
>
> But I don't have high end hardware. Single core AMD 3500, and 2gb RAM
> and a 256mb nVidia 6600 video card which I bought to play my games
> because they were not good with the motherboard integrated video..
>
> You have no idea what you are talking about, and you make it up as you
> go along. You are a FUD spreader..
>
>

2 gigs RAM? Enough said.

Alias
 
>
> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware long
> before it was released.
>
> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very good job
> all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>


I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista Home
Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call high end.

--
Kerry Brown
MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience: Systems Administration
http://www.vistahelp.ca/phpBB2/
 
Kerry Brown wrote:
>>
>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware long
>> before it was released.
>>
>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very good
>> job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>
>
>
> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista
> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call high
> end.
>

A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware to
build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the cost of
buying retail Ultimate in Spain.

Alias
 
":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message
news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware long
>>> before it was released.
>>>
>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very good
>>> job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista Home
>> Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call high end.
>>
>
> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware to
> build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the cost of
> buying retail Ultimate in Spain.
>


I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living in the
past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is high end. I
don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name brand DDR2 RAM is
$60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run Vista very well and is
easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is what I consider to be decent
quality.

Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00
Intel E2200 CPU $95.00
2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00
Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00
LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00
Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00
Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00

Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised brand
names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could probably get
it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any edition of Vista 32
or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be stable, all drivers are
easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A
decent 19" wide screen LCD would be another $200.00. The complete system
with Vista Ultimate is $865.00. Maybe you should move to Canada. It sounds
like your decision to live in Spain has impacted your computing experience.
In any case cost is relative to where you live. The system specs would not
be considered high end anywhere yet Vista runs with no problems on it.

--
Kerry Brown
MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience: Systems Administration
http://www.vistahelp.ca/phpBB2/
 
Kerry Brown wrote:
> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware
>>>> long before it was released.
>>>>
>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very
>>>> good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista
>>> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call
>>> high end.
>>>
>>
>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware
>> to build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the
>> cost of buying retail Ultimate in Spain.
>>
>
>
> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living in
> the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is high
> end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name brand DDR2
> RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run Vista very
> well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is what I
> consider to be decent quality.
>
> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00
> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00
> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00
> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00
> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00
> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00
> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00

No video or audio card? Are these Canadian or US dollars?

> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised
> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could
> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any
> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be
> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is
> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be another
> $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00. Maybe you
> should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live in Spain has
> impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is relative to
> where you live. The system specs would not be considered high end
> anywhere yet Vista runs with no problems on it.
>

Unfortunately, in Spain, you can't buy a copy of a generic OEM Vista (or
XP for that matter), only retail, unless you buy a complete computer. If
I wanted to buy another copy of Vista or XP, I would get a friend to buy
it in the States and send it to me.

That said, I didn't move to Spain for computer prices. I hate the cold
and where I live, there's sunshine at least 300 days a year and it never
goes under 5ºC so Canada is completely out of the question :-)

Alias
 
"Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@remove_mvps.com> wrote in message
news:u58%23%23y7tIHA.3968@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> "Alias" <iamalias@removegmail.com> wrote in message
> news:g0kjuk$otu$2@aioe.org...
>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:eoeqWC3tIHA.2292@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>>>>> "the wharf rat" <wrat@panix.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:g0k0ug$1f1$1@reader2.panix.com...
>>>>>> In article <u6ihweztIHA.1936@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>,
>>>>>> Steve Thackery <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Obviously the marketing machine in Microsoft isn't stupid, and they
>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>> have considered this. Does anyone know - or have an opinion - on
>>>>>>> why
>>>>>>> Microsoft are forcing their customers to use Vista after next month,
>>>>>>> even if
>>>>>>> it makes the customer unhappy?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because Vista requires that you purchase new hardware and new
>>>>>> software
>>>>>> in addition to the new operating system. That makes Microsoft
>>>>>> business partners
>>>>>> and subsidiaries happy. Microsoft is far more concerned with keeping
>>>>>> those
>>>>>> entities happy than with anything a customer might think.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I am running the same hardware setup that I had for XP..
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Oh, so you're using Vista Basic?
>>>>
>>>> Alias
>>>
>>>
>>> Nope.. I am running Vista Ultimate.. all bells and whistles..
>>>
>>>
>>
>> So you bought the machine knowing that you would need it for Vista.
>> Enough said and thanks for stepping into the trap.
>>
>> Alias
>
>
> Are you on strong medications?
>
> Any machine supplied with MCE 2005 is well up to the task of running
> Vista. Many hobbyists and all serious gamers had machines which would be
> more than enough to run Vista.
>
> Mine was not supplied with MCE 2005 (it is a home build), neither is it a
> serious gaming machine.
>
> I stepped in no trap, but you are still using FUD to discredit Vista..

I have XP MCE on a AMD X2, and HP also mailed out the Vista CDs.

But I can tell you, XP MCE is what most people want, stable, relatively fast
and compatible. I will never downgrade it with Vista unless Microsoft fixes
the Vista issues good. It will remain my MS-Windows desktop so long as I
need MS.

I have no doubt it would run Vista. But why mess with a perfectly good and
stable working PC?
 
Alias wrote:

> Kerry Brown wrote:
>
>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>
>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware
>>>>> long before it was released.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very
>>>>> good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista
>>>> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call
>>>> high end.
>>>>
>>>
>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware
>>> to build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the
>>> cost of buying retail Ultimate in Spain.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living
>> in the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is
>> high end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name
>> brand DDR2 RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run
>> Vista very well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is
>> what I consider to be decent quality.
>>
>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00
>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00
>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00
>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00
>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00
>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00
>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00
>
>
> No video or audio card? Are these Canadian or US dollars?
>
>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised
>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could
>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any
>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be
>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is
>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be
>> another $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00.
>> Maybe you should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live
>> in Spain has impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is
>> relative to where you live. The system specs would not be considered
>> high end anywhere yet Vista runs with no problems on it.
>>
>
> Unfortunately, in Spain, you can't buy a copy of a generic OEM Vista (or
> XP for that matter), only retail, unless you buy a complete computer. If
> I wanted to buy another copy of Vista or XP, I would get a friend to buy
> it in the States and send it to me.
>
> That said, I didn't move to Spain for computer prices. I hate the cold
> and where I live, there's sunshine at least 300 days a year and it never
> goes under 5ºC so Canada is completely out of the question :-)
>
> Alias

So is your ability to tell the truth and admit when you're wrong.
Frank
 
>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00
>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00
>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00
>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00
>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00
>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00
>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00
>
> No video or audio card? Are these Canadian or US dollars?

Built onto the motherboard. It's not a high end system :-)

Canadian $ which is pretty much at par these days.

--
Kerry Brown
MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience: Systems Administration
http://www.vistahelp.ca/phpBB2/
 
":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message
news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware long
>>> before it was released.
>>>
>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very good
>>> job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista Home
>> Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call high end.
>>
>
> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware to
> build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the cost of
> buying retail Ultimate in Spain.
>
> Alias

Ya, I still LOL at that $2000 for Vista and MS-Office Retail full versions
of Ultimate.....

What a farce....hahaha....

Apple, do they do the same? You can buy a nice Apple here for less than MS
software and load Open Office. Or like I did on my new system,
Ubuntu/Fedora/Vista triple boot and of course, Open Office.
 
"Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message
news:2E5A8BF6-8DA4-4129-B7D7-A88CF082CEB9@microsoft.com...
> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware long
>>>> before it was released.
>>>>
>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very good
>>>> job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista
>>> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call high
>>> end.
>>>
>>
>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware to
>> build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the cost of
>> buying retail Ultimate in Spain.
>>
>
>
> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living in
> the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is high end.
> I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name brand DDR2 RAM is
> $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run Vista very well and
> is easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is what I consider to be
> decent quality.
>
> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00
> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00
> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00
> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00
> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00
> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00
> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00
>
> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised
> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could
> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any
> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be stable,
> all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is $125.00,
> Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be another $200.00.
> The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00. Maybe you should move
> to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live in Spain has impacted your
> computing experience. In any case cost is relative to where you live. The
> system specs would not be considered high end anywhere yet Vista runs with
> no problems on it.

You are quoting OEM versions. He is talking the full retail. You know, the
better ones that are complete and recoverable. You also are without office
tools. Add in business or ultimate office tools you are well over the
$1000, more than twice the price of the total hardware package.

Me, got a Q6600, 4GB RAM, 22" wide LCD, 500GB drive, Vista (not so) Premium
x64 OEM, keyboard, mouse, cables, $749 at Best Buy. No assembly required
and a warranty. But I did a refit, to 8GB RAM, 2nd hard drive and a
dedicated 8500GT 256M fanless video.

Runs Vista like a pig (file/network copy specifically), but Ubuntu with
Compiz, smoking hot and fast.

Back to software, sounds like Microsoft is shafting Euros, probably because
of the court decisions for Microsoft anti-competitive business practices.
But at $2000 for a OS and Office full versions, I imagine Macs and Linux are
making serious headway.

And think, Canada have NAFTA free trade with the US and a par dollar. That
Vista OEM is cheaper in the US, 97.87 at MWave. How does it feel to pay 25%
more for being Canadian?

Mind you, that is better than what Alias has to deal with in Spain...ouch...
 
"Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message
news:g0n00k$984$1@aioe.org...
> Kerry Brown wrote:
>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware long
>>>>> before it was released.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very good
>>>>> job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista
>>>> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call
>>>> high end.
>>>>
>>>
>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware to
>>> build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the cost of
>>> buying retail Ultimate in Spain.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living in
>> the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is high
>> end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name brand DDR2
>> RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run Vista very
>> well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is what I
>> consider to be decent quality.
>>
>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00
>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00
>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00
>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00
>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00
>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00
>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00
>
> No video or audio card? Are these Canadian or US dollars?

CAD and USD are near par with each other, have been now for 4 months now or
so. Ok, it fluxuates up and down but it so close it is like the Bank of
Canada is managing it to be par.


>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised
>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could
>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any
>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be
>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is
>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be another
>> $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00. Maybe you
>> should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live in Spain has
>> impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is relative to where
>> you live. The system specs would not be considered high end anywhere yet
>> Vista runs with no problems on it.
>>
>
> Unfortunately, in Spain, you can't buy a copy of a generic OEM Vista (or
> XP for that matter), only retail, unless you buy a complete computer. If I
> wanted to buy another copy of Vista or XP, I would get a friend to buy it
> in the States and send it to me.

Here, almost everyone buys the OEM right off the shelf. In fact, one store
I deal with, most retail/full versions are special order only. No one in
their right mind is going to pay full retail for Ultimate Full
Retail...anything.

> That said, I didn't move to Spain for computer prices. I hate the cold and
> where I live, there's sunshine at least 300 days a year and it never goes
> under 5ºC so Canada is completely out of the question :-)
>
> Alias

I hear you there. This is a weird year in Canada. Almost broke record low
temperate a few months ago, -35C. Today, going to 33C and may well be
record temperatures for the day. Screwy. I am contemplating Costa Rica
myself. Snow I don't mind, but that cold just isn't very nice.

You are better off in Spain. Maybe wait until you know someone going to
Canada, Spain or UK and bring a more sanely priced copy back.
 
Canuck57 wrote:
> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>
>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware long
>>>> before it was released.
>>>>
>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very good
>>>> job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista Home
>>> Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call high end.
>>>
>>>
>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware to
>> build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the cost of
>> buying retail Ultimate in Spain.
>>
>> Alias
>>
>
> Ya, I still LOL at that $2000 for Vista and MS-Office Retail full versions
> of Ultimate.....
>
> What a farce....hahaha....
>
Do not be like Frankie Crankie ...LOL. It is not hahaha but ha ha ha ha
But most of the time that idiot goes hehehe...LOL!
> Apple, do they do the same? You can buy a nice Apple here for less than MS
> software and load Open Office. Or like I did on my new system,
> Ubuntu/Fedora/Vista triple boot and of course, Open Office.
>
>
>
 
"Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message
news:2E5A8BF6-8DA4-4129-B7D7-A88CF082CEB9@microsoft.com...
> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware long
>>>> before it was released.
>>>>
>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very good
>>>> job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista
>>> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call high
>>> end.
>>>
>>
>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware to
>> build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the cost of
>> buying retail Ultimate in Spain.
>>
>
>
> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living in
> the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is high end.
> I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name brand DDR2 RAM is
> $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run Vista very well and
> is easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is what I consider to be
> decent quality.
>
> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00
> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00
> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00
> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00
> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00
> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00
> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00
>
> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised
> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could
> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any
> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be stable,
> all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is $125.00,
> Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be another $200.00.
> The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00. Maybe you should move
> to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live in Spain has impacted your
> computing experience. In any case cost is relative to where you live. The
> system specs would not be considered high end anywhere yet Vista runs with
> no problems on it.
>
> --
> Kerry Brown
> MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience: Systems Administration
> http://www.vistahelp.ca/phpBB2/
>
>
>


Kerry

Prices for everything are higher in Europe than in North America, and
taxation plays its part.

Don't let Alias fool you into believing that Spain is a peasant country,
because it is anything but peasant. For sure some of the old ways of life
still exist, but Spain is as technologically advanced as most countries, and
has been the only European country growing over the last few years.

They may not have the cheap computer fairs as in the UK, but one can get
computers, parts and software at reasonable prices just as one can in other
countries.



--
Mike Hall - MVP
How to construct a good post..
http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=newswhelp&style=toc
Mike's Window - My Blog..
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx
 
"Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message
news:g0n00k$984$1@aioe.org...
> Kerry Brown wrote:
>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware long
>>>>> before it was released.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very good
>>>>> job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista
>>>> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call
>>>> high end.
>>>>
>>>
>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware to
>>> build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the cost of
>>> buying retail Ultimate in Spain.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living in
>> the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is high
>> end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name brand DDR2
>> RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run Vista very
>> well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is what I
>> consider to be decent quality.
>>
>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00
>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00
>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00
>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00
>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00
>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00
>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00
>
> No video or audio card? Are these Canadian or US dollars?
>
>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised
>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could
>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any
>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be
>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is
>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be another
>> $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00. Maybe you
>> should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live in Spain has
>> impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is relative to where
>> you live. The system specs would not be considered high end anywhere yet
>> Vista runs with no problems on it.
>>
>
> Unfortunately, in Spain, you can't buy a copy of a generic OEM Vista (or
> XP for that matter), only retail, unless you buy a complete computer. If I
> wanted to buy another copy of Vista or XP, I would get a friend to buy it
> in the States and send it to me.
>
> That said, I didn't move to Spain for computer prices. I hate the cold and
> where I live, there's sunshine at least 300 days a year and it never goes
> under 5ºC so Canada is completely out of the question :-)
>
> Alias


The more I see your answers to other people, the less I think that you know
about computers..


--
Mike Hall - MVP
How to construct a good post..
http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=newswhelp&style=toc
Mike's Window - My Blog..
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx
 
"Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote in message
news:UlGXj.146998$Cj7.110714@pd7urf2no...
>
> "Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message
> news:2E5A8BF6-8DA4-4129-B7D7-A88CF082CEB9@microsoft.com...
>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> Kerry Brown wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware long
>>>>> before it was released.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very good
>>>>> job all by itself and doesn't need my help.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista
>>>> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call
>>>> high end.
>>>>
>>>
>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware to
>>> build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the cost of
>>> buying retail Ultimate in Spain.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living in
>> the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is high
>> end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name brand DDR2
>> RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run Vista very
>> well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is what I
>> consider to be decent quality.
>>
>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00
>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00
>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00
>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00
>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00
>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00
>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00
>>
>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised
>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could
>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any
>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be
>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is
>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be another
>> $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00. Maybe you
>> should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live in Spain has
>> impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is relative to where
>> you live. The system specs would not be considered high end anywhere yet
>> Vista runs with no problems on it.
>
> You are quoting OEM versions. He is talking the full retail. You know,
> the better ones that are complete and recoverable. You also are without
> office tools. Add in business or ultimate office tools you are well over
> the $1000, more than twice the price of the total hardware package.

Generic OEM disks are a full install just like a retail disk. You may be
thinking of the large OEMs like Dell and HP. I wouldn't wish that user
experience on anyone. They install so much crap even a Quad Core would
struggle. As for Office you are the first person to mention it. I don't see
it anywhere else in the thread. Open Office runs equally well on Vista or
Linux so there's no difference there. If you need Microsoft Office then
despite what people say about Wine you really need a Microsoft OS to run it
properly.

>
> Me, got a Q6600, 4GB RAM, 22" wide LCD, 500GB drive, Vista (not so)
> Premium x64 OEM, keyboard, mouse, cables, $749 at Best Buy. No assembly
> required and a warranty. But I did a refit, to 8GB RAM, 2nd hard drive
> and a dedicated 8500GT 256M fanless video.
>
> Runs Vista like a pig (file/network copy specifically), but Ubuntu with
> Compiz, smoking hot and fast.
>

Then something is wrong. I dual boot Ubuntu and Vista Business on this
laptop. They run about the same speed doing the same tasks. If anything the
Vista Atheros wireless driver is a little faster than the MadWifi driver in
Ubuntu so wireless is a bit faster in Vista on this machine. Other than that
I don't notice much difference other than the UI. Both have been very stable
with few problems.

--
Kerry Brown
MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience: Systems Administration
http://www.vistahelp.ca/phpBB2/
 

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