People Would Rather Pay For Windows Than Use Linux.

[Charlie Tame]

Adam Albright wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 20:43:18 -0500, Charlie Tame <charlie@tames.net>
> wrote:
>
>> The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'
>> wrote:
>>> Charlie Tame wrote:
>>>> I am a Microsoft MVP not a "Linux Person" but
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> Wow, I never would have guessed! For how long now?
>>>
>> Probably not much longer at the rate things are going, oh well. The fact
>> is that sometimes a big company needs realistic criticism, just as
>> governments do.
>
> Yes, but the fanboy club can't handle criticism no matter how
> constructive it is. You are the FIRST MVP I've seen in this newsgroup
> that's objective. The rest... well what's the point. Everyone knows
> already.
>> MS employs a lot of people and most of them don't deserve to lose their
>> jobs, but some at the top do, given the appalling decisions they
>> sometimes make.
>
> True of nearly every major corporation. Most companies are overloaded
> with dead wood. Rather than prune it out, they often get pushed higher
> and higher up the corporate ladder when ironically they can start to
> do real damage.
>


Well an MSDN subscription comes with the MVP award and it has been very
interesting to see some of the stuff that MS have been working on
despite the fact that I don't know how to use it all, can't really do
much with the Japanese version of any of it and have not had that much
time to report back things that others have already beaten me to
discovering, I guess that's life, at least mine anyway, but in a way the
fact that they do so much is irritating when they can't seem to get some
of the basics right.


I mean OE was a virus trap for years, much of it simply because users
left it set at defaults and didn't know how to make them safer. It took
years for MS to start with much safer defaults and include a plain text
option, simple fixes and yet it took years and OE was undoubtedly the
biggest security problem on the internet simply because everybody,
including the clueless majority, had it running. Okay so it was a
freebie and MS made no profit, but hell, it never occurred to them what
it was costing everybody being insecure. I think the idea was that
people would buy Outlook, but most were NEVER going to buy that just for
simple emails.

I didn't have any Vista capable machines when the Beta was out, so my
first experience was the retail, and frankly it was disappointing
considering the time to develop and the alleged rewrite. I'm sure it
works well for many but heck, so does XP and probably better if the
clean up some of the accumulated detritus. From an average user's
perspective though it's not worth paying $300 for and from a business
perspective where most are doing WP and data entry what bloody use is
aero and ultimate extras like a poker game and animated desktop? 100
machines, $30,000 etc.And still the same typos in the WP and data entry.

Many will find out how to turn UAC off, many will find out how to run as
super user or whatever and WGA/WPA will NOT stop the serious pirate.
Actually here's how I see that issue. I get an ad for Vista and send off
for the pirate copy. Either it never arrives or it does and it's bloody
useless. Now, I either have to try and get MS to activate it at a price
(Which means I can use it but doesn't guarantee it has no malware
compiled in there someplace) so I lose but so does MS because now I got
me a legal but dangerous version. Or I might just curse the loss and
carry on using XP or whatever. OTOH since I lost my money I might just
try Linux, and since I am forced into that corner by the loss I might
just persist with it long enough to get to like it.

Nailing a few pirates is not enough, if WGA / WGA doesn't get the vast
majority of them (and it won't) than it's just a big negative.

Similarly with DRM. I have some stuff from years back, in the new Vista
machine no go, with XP most does go, with Linux, so far, it all goes.
It's all stuff I could have gotten off TV with a VCR anyway. What's with
paying more to get less?

So it is really not so much what is wrong with Vista as what is wrong at
MS during the latter stages of Vista development. I am quite sure a lot
of people will look at alternatives now.

 

[The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly]

Charlie Tame wrote:
> The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'
> wrote:
>> Charlie Tame wrote:
>>>
>>> I am a Microsoft MVP not a "Linux Person" but
>> <snip>
>>
>> Wow, I never would have guessed! For how long now?
>>
>
> Probably not much longer at the rate things are going, oh well. The fact
> is that sometimes a big company needs realistic criticism, just as
> governments do.
>
> I started off maybe 4 years back helping some folks out with OE problems
> and had some W2000 security info on a website but soon after getting the
> award life changed somewhat with a new job etc and my spare time went
> along with it
>
> MS employs a lot of people and most of them don't deserve to lose their
> jobs, but some at the top do, given the appalling decisions they
> sometimes make. What annoys me is they can be both brilliant and
> innovative yet seem to make the same mistakes over and over and then are
> very slow to respond.
>
> They need to be aware that the problems they have created with Vista,
> DRM, WGA and WPA and shipping with a simple thing like the mail clients
> unfinished and undecided, actively encourages, no, even forces people to
> look elsewhere. As the Captain of the Titanic discovered not everything
> moves out of the way just because it's a big ship.

Yes, I agree with Adam that you are a refreshing change to some of the
MVP shills here. Although I don't think of all or even most MVPs as shills.

--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

"Fair use is not merely a nice concept--it is a federal law based on
free speech rights under the First Amendment and is a cornerstone of the
creativity and innovation that is a hallmark of this country. Consumer
rights in the digital age are not frivolous."
- Maura Corbett

 

[Kerry Brown]

"NoStop" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:NFlFi.147789$fJ5.5413@pd7urf1no...
> Kerry Brown wrote:
>
>>
>> So far for me Vista has been both stable and secure. I don't know what
>> freedom means in the context of an OS. Maybe you could explain this.
>>
> Sure Kerry ... read the definition here ...
>
> http://www.fsf.org/licensing/essays/free-sw.html
>


Thanks, that is a reasonably good definition. I actually understand the
intent of the GPL a little better now. I was thinking of freedom in a
different context as in an OS forces you to use programs designed for it so
there isn't really any freedom in any OS. You are stuck with what works in
that OS. I like the definition in your link better.

--
Kerry Brown
Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
http://www.vistahelp.ca

 

[Charlie Tame]

The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'
wrote:
> Charlie Tame wrote:
>> The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'
>> wrote:
>>> Charlie Tame wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I am a Microsoft MVP not a "Linux Person" but
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> Wow, I never would have guessed! For how long now?
>>>
>>
>> Probably not much longer at the rate things are going, oh well. The
>> fact is that sometimes a big company needs realistic criticism, just
>> as governments do.
>>
>> I started off maybe 4 years back helping some folks out with OE
>> problems and had some W2000 security info on a website but soon after
>> getting the award life changed somewhat with a new job etc and my
>> spare time went along with it
>>
>> MS employs a lot of people and most of them don't deserve to lose
>> their jobs, but some at the top do, given the appalling decisions they
>> sometimes make. What annoys me is they can be both brilliant and
>> innovative yet seem to make the same mistakes over and over and then
>> are very slow to respond.
>>
>> They need to be aware that the problems they have created with Vista,
>> DRM, WGA and WPA and shipping with a simple thing like the mail
>> clients unfinished and undecided, actively encourages, no, even forces
>> people to look elsewhere. As the Captain of the Titanic discovered not
>> everything moves out of the way just because it's a big ship.
>
> Yes, I agree with Adam that you are a refreshing change to some of the
> MVP shills here. Although I don't think of all or even most MVPs as
> shills.
>


I try to say what I see basically, and I agree that it is far from most
MVPs, which is why I don't take offense, but when you see what goes on
you have to laugh at it.

I don't know Vista as well as I should because I wasn't able to be in on
the Beta and hence have not used it as much as some, however some of the
flaws kinda hit you right in the face. There are some Linux and Multi OS
users here who give far more useful advice than the shills, who
basically think advice consists of slamming some other OS or redirecting
posters (often sarcastically) to the "Right" newsgroup. If they want to
support Microsoft and / or the users of MS products that's a piss poor
way to go about it, especially as some new folks are nervous about
asking and don't want to make themselves look like fools. Regrettably I
think some come here for the pleasure of making others look foolish, you
already know who I mean

MS can look after themselves, I look to getting the best value for the
users, I am one remember ???

That is not anti Microsoft or anti anything, it's capitalism more than
anything else.

The thing is that ever the most modern car or washing machine or
anything else will eventually wear out and need to be replaced. That is
somewhat true of computer hardware but less frequent unless some new
innovation that's essential comes along. It is even less true of
software because that never "Wears out" per se, only when something else
new and essential makes it redundant.

Therefore a company like Microsoft MUST generate innovation and demand
for new things, new ideas. IMHO Linux is catching up fast with stuff
that's historically been awkward - drivers and stuff I mean. If a big
developer like Valve decided to port to Linux then MS would have a big
market to lose. Maybe games are trivial, but a lot of businesses don't
want employees wasting time browsing and so a server and some thin
client terminals is becoming a way to avoid that. The "PC" boom in
business may just be on it's way back down, and how many want a home PC
for business, no they want it for recreation. This means that the price
of an OS will come into it more. With the growing numbers of Linux users
willing to help out a bit and Linux getting easier and easier to use,
and already professional competition from Apple alienating the users who
got Windows on the cheap originally may be a very bad idea. If people
"Stole" Windows the same people are going to be reluctant to pay too
much for it now, and if they can get the same from Linux quite easily
they may as well stay legal, no?

In that regard the people spouting endless praise instead of balanced
concern aren't really helping

If MS feel that WGA / WPA and DRM - and making users aware that they
depend on some server someplace is their best course then fine, they are
free to go their own way - but in the same way so am I and so is
everybody else.

I don't steal their software although I'm sure we have all accidentally
broken some EULA somewhere along the road to where we are, but I get
accused of it along with the rest, and I see the real thieves still
doing it. Were these measures having an impact in the right way I would
accept some inconvenience but I don't see where they are having any
impact at all on the real problem.

Give me some good reason not to go for a system that as yet has none of
these nuisances - and as you can see nobody here has actually given that
reason yet. That's not anti MS or anti anything, it is no more than
asking a car manufacturer why his model is better than a rival's.

 

[dennis@home]

"NoStop" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:NFlFi.147789$fJ5.5413@pd7urf1no...
> Kerry Brown wrote:
>
>>
>> So far for me Vista has been both stable and secure. I don't know what
>> freedom means in the context of an OS. Maybe you could explain this.
>>
> Sure Kerry ... read the definition here ...
>
> http://www.fsf.org/licensing/essays/free-sw.html
>
> Cheers.

Its a shame it fails on freedom 0.
You should not be allowed to use it for anything you like and indeed are
not.
You try using free software for terrorism and see how free to use it you
are.

 

[dennis@home]

"Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message
news:O5ZD7JB9HHA.4420@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> I can't really comment on which is more friendly since I don't have
> experience using Solaris to any great extent, but you raise a very
> interesting point and that of course is why "Windows" appears friendly to
> "most" people - which also makes one wonder why MS chose to swap some
> things around in Vista apparently just to make it "Look Different".
>
> One of the things of course is that all OSs have some new user brick walls
> that you hit and can't seem to find an obvious way around, and for someone
> used to Windows as an ordinary "User" Linux is probably quite good at
> producing them.
>

Linux is full of weird things unless you already know it.
I find it hard to set network keys in Ubuntu.. So hard that I gave up with
the live CD and installed it and its not straight forward then.
XP and Vista just pop up and say "there is a network here would you like to
connect and BTW what's the key I need?".

Linux still has a long way to go before it will be installable and useable
by most people despite what Linux advocates say.
You should also bear in mind that the Linux advocates have no idea how hard
Linux is as they already know how to do stuff that they expect newbies to
do. If you put them in a similar situation and give them Vista they complain
like hell just because its different and they can't be bothered to learn so
why do they expect users to learn Linux?
M$ are starting to find out just how bad users can be with all the
complaints about something as simple as UAC.. its so simple a five year old
could understand and use it.. however most of the users aren't five. When
the people that put Linux distros together actually realize that the
learning curve is too steep they might produce a better product.. but given
past experience I expect they will concentrate on more fancy features to
"blow away" windows as that is more interesting than making stuff easy to
use even for the half of the population below average intelligence. If they
were being paid then someone would be able to tell them what to do first but
that's one of the problems with open source software.. no one can make a
contributor do something they don't want to.

 

[Richard Urban]

I have installed Vista on more than 250 computers since last November. I
have had little - to no - trouble with these computers after the installs,
at least none that my customers have bought to my attention. I typically do
not see a customer for 6-10 months after installing an operating system (any
operating system). Vista has been no exception.

I have turned DOWN installing Vista on far more computers than I have
installed upon. Why? Because of what would have been hardware
incompatibilities or incompatibilities with software that customers wanted
to run.

In repairing computers I have found (over the past 15 years - and this
includes computers with Vista installed) that 75% of all problems are user
induced - no matter what operating system is being used by the customer at
the time.

About 20% of the problems I find are hardware incompatibilities. These
appear after I have turned over the computer to the customer subsequent to a
new build or a repair. They install hardware without doing any research at
all.

4% of the problems are due to software incompatibilities, again - software
installed "after" I turn over a computer to a customer.

1% of the problems are actually due to the operating system (any operating
system). Operating systems, for the most part, are quite stable and
functional at the time of release (Windows ME excepted).

So, I am NOT going to say that Vista is flawless. I *AM* going to state what
my experience has been.

Other people may have problems. I help as I can. But I am ***NOT*** going to
beat the drum for those with problems, given the above percentages that my
years of records prove out to me.

The odds are just too great that they have caused their own problem!


--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)


"Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message
news:exd7CVD9HHA.1484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'
> wrote:
>> Charlie Tame wrote:
>>> The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'
>>> wrote:
>>>> Charlie Tame wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I am a Microsoft MVP not a "Linux Person" but
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>> Wow, I never would have guessed! For how long now?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Probably not much longer at the rate things are going, oh well. The fact
>>> is that sometimes a big company needs realistic criticism, just as
>>> governments do.
>>>
>>> I started off maybe 4 years back helping some folks out with OE problems
>>> and had some W2000 security info on a website but soon after getting the
>>> award life changed somewhat with a new job etc and my spare time went
>>> along with it
>>>
>>> MS employs a lot of people and most of them don't deserve to lose their
>>> jobs, but some at the top do, given the appalling decisions they
>>> sometimes make. What annoys me is they can be both brilliant and
>>> innovative yet seem to make the same mistakes over and over and then are
>>> very slow to respond.
>>>
>>> They need to be aware that the problems they have created with Vista,
>>> DRM, WGA and WPA and shipping with a simple thing like the mail clients
>>> unfinished and undecided, actively encourages, no, even forces people to
>>> look elsewhere. As the Captain of the Titanic discovered not everything
>>> moves out of the way just because it's a big ship.
>>
>> Yes, I agree with Adam that you are a refreshing change to some of the
>> MVP shills here. Although I don't think of all or even most MVPs as
>> shills.
>>
>
>
> I try to say what I see basically, and I agree that it is far from most
> MVPs, which is why I don't take offense, but when you see what goes on you
> have to laugh at it.
>
> I don't know Vista as well as I should because I wasn't able to be in on
> the Beta and hence have not used it as much as some, however some of the
> flaws kinda hit you right in the face. There are some Linux and Multi OS
> users here who give far more useful advice than the shills, who basically
> think advice consists of slamming some other OS or redirecting posters
> (often sarcastically) to the "Right" newsgroup. If they want to support
> Microsoft and / or the users of MS products that's a piss poor way to go
> about it, especially as some new folks are nervous about asking and don't
> want to make themselves look like fools. Regrettably I think some come
> here for the pleasure of making others look foolish, you already know who
> I mean
>
> MS can look after themselves, I look to getting the best value for the
> users, I am one remember ???
>
> That is not anti Microsoft or anti anything, it's capitalism more than
> anything else.
>
> The thing is that ever the most modern car or washing machine or anything
> else will eventually wear out and need to be replaced. That is somewhat
> true of computer hardware but less frequent unless some new innovation
> that's essential comes along. It is even less true of software because
> that never "Wears out" per se, only when something else new and essential
> makes it redundant.
>
> Therefore a company like Microsoft MUST generate innovation and demand for
> new things, new ideas. IMHO Linux is catching up fast with stuff that's
> historically been awkward - drivers and stuff I mean. If a big developer
> like Valve decided to port to Linux then MS would have a big market to
> lose. Maybe games are trivial, but a lot of businesses don't want
> employees wasting time browsing and so a server and some thin client
> terminals is becoming a way to avoid that. The "PC" boom in business may
> just be on it's way back down, and how many want a home PC for business,
> no they want it for recreation. This means that the price of an OS will
> come into it more. With the growing numbers of Linux users willing to help
> out a bit and Linux getting easier and easier to use, and already
> professional competition from Apple alienating the users who got Windows
> on the cheap originally may be a very bad idea. If people "Stole" Windows
> the same people are going to be reluctant to pay too much for it now, and
> if they can get the same from Linux quite easily they may as well stay
> legal, no?
>
> In that regard the people spouting endless praise instead of balanced
> concern aren't really helping
>
> If MS feel that WGA / WPA and DRM - and making users aware that they
> depend on some server someplace is their best course then fine, they are
> free to go their own way - but in the same way so am I and so is everybody
> else.
>
> I don't steal their software although I'm sure we have all accidentally
> broken some EULA somewhere along the road to where we are, but I get
> accused of it along with the rest, and I see the real thieves still doing
> it. Were these measures having an impact in the right way I would accept
> some inconvenience but I don't see where they are having any impact at all
> on the real problem.
>
> Give me some good reason not to go for a system that as yet has none of
> these nuisances - and as you can see nobody here has actually given that
> reason yet. That's not anti MS or anti anything, it is no more than asking
> a car manufacturer why his model is better than a rival's.

 

[dennis@home]

"Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message
news:%23eGp1RC9HHA.396@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> I mean OE was a virus trap for years, much of it simply because users left
> it set at defaults and didn't know how to make them safer. It took years
> for MS to start with much safer defaults and include a plain text option,
> simple fixes and yet it took years and OE was undoubtedly the biggest
> security problem on the internet simply because everybody, including the
> clueless majority, had it running. Okay so it was a freebie and MS made no
> profit, but hell, it never occurred to them what it was costing everybody
> being insecure. I think the idea was that people would buy Outlook, but
> most were NEVER going to buy that just for simple emails.

Look at sendmail on Linux, FreeBSD, Solaris, etc. it was full of worm holes
and other security problems for years before someone finally fixed it by
dumping it and using postfix.
However there are still machines out there running the versions with the
holes in even now.
Hell they don't even need to pay as postfix is free and a lot easier to use
than writing aload of $%^<>"£$%^ to a config file to rewrite headers and
stuff, but they still have cr@p sendmail running.

>
> I didn't have any Vista capable machines when the Beta was out, so my
> first experience was the retail, and frankly it was disappointing
> considering the time to develop and the alleged rewrite. I'm sure it works
> well for many but heck, so does XP and probably better if the clean up
> some of the accumulated detritus. From an average user's perspective
> though it's not worth paying $300 for and from a business perspective
> where most are doing WP and data entry what bloody use is aero and
> ultimate extras like a poker game and animated desktop? 100 machines,
> $30,000 etc.And still the same typos in the WP and data entry.
>
> Many will find out how to turn UAC off, many will find out how to run as
> super user or whatever and WGA/WPA will NOT stop the serious pirate.

The same users would get pi$$ed off by having to enter their password on
Ubuntu everytime they wanted to do an admin action too.. so they would
switch to another distro and run as root all the time.

> Actually here's how I see that issue. I get an ad for Vista and send off
> for the pirate copy. Either it never arrives or it does and it's bloody
> useless. Now, I either have to try and get MS to activate it at a price
> (Which means I can use it but doesn't guarantee it has no malware compiled
> in there someplace) so I lose but so does MS because now I got me a legal
> but dangerous version. Or I might just curse the loss and carry on using
> XP or whatever. OTOH since I lost my money I might just try Linux, and
> since I am forced into that corner by the loss I might just persist with
> it long enough to get to like it.

If you buy a pirate copy unknowingly and co-operate with M$ they send you a
free key and installation media if the one you have is no good.

> Nailing a few pirates is not enough, if WGA / WGA doesn't get the vast
> majority of them (and it won't) than it's just a big negative.
>
> Similarly with DRM. I have some stuff from years back, in the new Vista
> machine no go, with XP most does go, with Linux, so far, it all goes. It's
> all stuff I could have gotten off TV with a VCR anyway. What's with paying
> more to get less?

I find that WMP11 plays the stuff without copyright encoded in it without
any trouble.
BTW it is illegal to bypass the DRM if its in the files so, if you do, you
are making your Linux illegal in many countries.

> So it is really not so much what is wrong with Vista as what is wrong at
> MS during the latter stages of Vista development. I am quite sure a lot of
> people will look at alternatives now.

There are quite a lot of people that will be put off Linux by the inclusion
of software to bypass legal things.
There should be a warning and an option not to install the stuff that may
make the user a criminal but there isn't in any distro I have seen.

 

[Saucy]

"Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:um5LGBB9HHA.4784@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Are you comparing Vista Basic and XP Home?
>
>
> "Saucy" <saucy538347334873772.sjhdf@net.net.net> wrote in message
> news:ei8LkLA9HHA.4784@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message
>> news:%23UWRgm$8HHA.5160@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>> Saucy
>>>
>>> I have been using Vista exclusively since November 17th, 2006 and have
>>> had no problems with it.. I also have local clients running Vista, and
>>> they have had no problems with it..
>>>
>>> Vista pricing is higher than XP.. and we do not all live in the US..
>>>
>>>
>>> "Saucy" <saucy538347334873772.sjhdf@net.net.net> wrote in message
>>> news:uwTUVH$8HHA.4784@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>> "The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina
>>>> DiBoy'" <none@none.not> wrote in message news:fc4bht$5eo$1@aioe.org...
>>>>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>>>>>> Aside from the recent problem with the WGA server, a problem which
>>>>>> was sorted very quickly but didn't appear so because reports of
>>>>>> failure came in over the period of a few days, can you find figures
>>>>>> showing that the majority of Vista/XP users have been adversely
>>>>>> affected by WPA/WGA? I doubt it somehow because, in all probability,
>>>>>> the majority of users are not affected.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have had to use the WPA call on maybe four occasions in the course
>>>>>> of my work, all XP related, and have had to use it once for myself
>>>>>> after a new hard drive, freshly installed, failed after three days of
>>>>>> use, forcing a re-install onto another drive. How many times have you
>>>>>> had to use the service?
>>>>>
>>>>> Wait until you start using Vista, I think you'll have alot more
>>>>> problems with it.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Did I see it as an affront to my honesty, or the honesty of my local
>>>>>> clients? Nope, just MS trying to protect themselves from the huge
>>>>>> piracy mess that was Win 'all versions up to and including 2000 Pro'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will readily admit that people who once distributed one CD and one
>>>>>> product code across an entire school, campus or sub-division may well
>>>>>> be annoyed that their bid to gain friends has been curtailed, but the
>>>>>> rule has always been one product code on one computer, and we all
>>>>>> knew/know that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The pricing of Vista is a little steep,
>>>>>
>>>>> Try very steep!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Try $89 bucks USD. In other words, inexpensive.
>>>>
>>>> Saucy
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike Hall
>>> MS MVP Windows Shell/User
>>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Mr. Hall:
>>
>> Vista's price the same here as XP. $129.00 Cdn. .. the same price XP's
>> been since 2001. A bit higher than the price in the USA because the Cdn.
>> dollar has gained on the US by about 30% during that time.
>>
>> Either way, US or Cdn or Aussie or Brit or Chinese, Vista is a good
>> upgrade, especially for parents.
>>
>> Saucy
>
> --
>
>
> Mike Hall
> MS MVP Windows Shell/User
> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
>
>
>


Yes, of course - Vista Home Basic. They are roughly comparable. Vista's
version of Home comes with Parental Controls and makes for a smart upgrade
to the family computer and it's just $89 USD or $118-129 Cdn. - the same
price as the XP Home upgrade was. I'm not going to discuss get into
differences between HB and HP, my brother has HB - loves it - and it works
well and he runs top notch sound editing software on it.

Saucy

 

[Mike Hall - MVP]

And have you looked at prices for other Vista flavours, bearing in mind that
many will like the idea of finally getting Media Centre, and may well have
slightly higher aspirations than your brother?


"Saucy" <saucy538347334873772.sjhdf@net.net.net> wrote in message
news:OZieujG9HHA.1164@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message
> news:um5LGBB9HHA.4784@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> Are you comparing Vista Basic and XP Home?
>>
>>
>> "Saucy" <saucy538347334873772.sjhdf@net.net.net> wrote in message
>> news:ei8LkLA9HHA.4784@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message
>>> news:%23UWRgm$8HHA.5160@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>> Saucy
>>>>
>>>> I have been using Vista exclusively since November 17th, 2006 and have
>>>> had no problems with it.. I also have local clients running Vista, and
>>>> they have had no problems with it..
>>>>
>>>> Vista pricing is higher than XP.. and we do not all live in the US..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Saucy" <saucy538347334873772.sjhdf@net.net.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:uwTUVH$8HHA.4784@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>>> "The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina
>>>>> DiBoy'" <none@none.not> wrote in message news:fc4bht$5eo$1@aioe.org...
>>>>>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>>>>>>> Aside from the recent problem with the WGA server, a problem which
>>>>>>> was sorted very quickly but didn't appear so because reports of
>>>>>>> failure came in over the period of a few days, can you find figures
>>>>>>> showing that the majority of Vista/XP users have been adversely
>>>>>>> affected by WPA/WGA? I doubt it somehow because, in all probability,
>>>>>>> the majority of users are not affected.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have had to use the WPA call on maybe four occasions in the course
>>>>>>> of my work, all XP related, and have had to use it once for myself
>>>>>>> after a new hard drive, freshly installed, failed after three days
>>>>>>> of use, forcing a re-install onto another drive. How many times have
>>>>>>> you had to use the service?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wait until you start using Vista, I think you'll have alot more
>>>>>> problems with it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Did I see it as an affront to my honesty, or the honesty of my local
>>>>>>> clients? Nope, just MS trying to protect themselves from the huge
>>>>>>> piracy mess that was Win 'all versions up to and including 2000
>>>>>>> Pro'.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I will readily admit that people who once distributed one CD and one
>>>>>>> product code across an entire school, campus or sub-division may
>>>>>>> well be annoyed that their bid to gain friends has been curtailed,
>>>>>>> but the rule has always been one product code on one computer, and
>>>>>>> we all knew/know that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The pricing of Vista is a little steep,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Try very steep!
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Try $89 bucks USD. In other words, inexpensive.
>>>>>
>>>>> Saucy
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mike Hall
>>>> MS MVP Windows Shell/User
>>>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mr. Hall:
>>>
>>> Vista's price the same here as XP. $129.00 Cdn. .. the same price XP's
>>> been since 2001. A bit higher than the price in the USA because the Cdn.
>>> dollar has gained on the US by about 30% during that time.
>>>
>>> Either way, US or Cdn or Aussie or Brit or Chinese, Vista is a good
>>> upgrade, especially for parents.
>>>
>>> Saucy
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Mike Hall
>> MS MVP Windows Shell/User
>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Yes, of course - Vista Home Basic. They are roughly comparable. Vista's
> version of Home comes with Parental Controls and makes for a smart upgrade
> to the family computer and it's just $89 USD or $118-129 Cdn. - the same
> price as the XP Home upgrade was. I'm not going to discuss get into
> differences between HB and HP, my brother has HB - loves it - and it works
> well and he runs top notch sound editing software on it.
>
> Saucy

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

 

[Adam Albright]

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 05:35:37 -0400, "Richard Urban"
<richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I have installed Vista on more than 250 computers since last November.
>So, I am NOT going to say that Vista is flawless. I *AM* going to state what
>my experience has been.
>
>Other people may have problems. I help as I can. But I am ***NOT*** going to
>beat the drum for those with problems, given the above percentages that my
>years of records prove out to me.

Most of typical MVP BS deleted.
>
>The odds are just too great that they have caused their own problem!

Thanks for confirming you're nothing but a screwdriver jockey who
thinks he's a computer "expert" because he figured out how to push an
idiot proof connector into a motherboard, screw down a hard drive and
plug in the power and data cables and similar no brainer tasks which
is all that's required to assemble a PC. Oh excuse me, me bad, these
kind of menial tasks is what you guys call "building" a computer. It's
really called ASSEMBLING and is on a par with somebody at one of
Amazon's warehouses considering themselves a technician when they put
your ordered books in a cardboard box, fill up the spaces with
shipping peanuts and seal up the carton with shipping tape.

As far as "installing" Vista, if you can manage to open the disk drive
door (pushing a button isn't too hard for most people), place the disc
in the caddy, shut the disc drive door and follow on screen prompts,
oh wow, I guess you're now qualified as a "software engineer"
according to the loony standards accepted by some in this newsgroup
for "expert" ranking.

And you guys wonder why I laugh at you? Please, be serious.

ROTFLMAO!

 

[Adam Albright]

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 22:34:51 -0500, The poster formerly known as 'The
Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy' <none@none.not> wrote:

>Charlie Tame wrote:
>> The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'
>> wrote:
>>> Charlie Tame wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I am a Microsoft MVP not a "Linux Person" but
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> Wow, I never would have guessed! For how long now?
>>>
>>
>> Probably not much longer at the rate things are going, oh well. The fact
>> is that sometimes a big company needs realistic criticism, just as
>> governments do.
>>
>> I started off maybe 4 years back helping some folks out with OE problems
>> and had some W2000 security info on a website but soon after getting the
>> award life changed somewhat with a new job etc and my spare time went
>> along with it
>>
>> MS employs a lot of people and most of them don't deserve to lose their
>> jobs, but some at the top do, given the appalling decisions they
>> sometimes make. What annoys me is they can be both brilliant and
>> innovative yet seem to make the same mistakes over and over and then are
>> very slow to respond.
>>
>> They need to be aware that the problems they have created with Vista,
>> DRM, WGA and WPA and shipping with a simple thing like the mail clients
>> unfinished and undecided, actively encourages, no, even forces people to
>> look elsewhere. As the Captain of the Titanic discovered not everything
>> moves out of the way just because it's a big ship.
>
>Yes, I agree with Adam that you are a refreshing change to some of the
>MVP shills here. Although I don't think of all or even most MVPs as shills.

I wouldn't pick the word shill, but I guess one could make a case for
it applying to a few of the MVPs here. I see the typical MVP as
blinded and seeing their purpose (as misguided as it is) as defending
Microsoft which I find ludicrous. Hint: That isn't what the MVP
program was created for!

The intent of the MVP program as it was originally constituted was to
have a small group of people that earned their stripes by showing they
had some knowledge and experience beyond that of typical users. These
guys were suppose to HELP people having problems.

Now, more often than not, the typical MVP, at least seen way too often
in this NG is boasting, bragging, pontificating, trying to act like
they're in change, scolding, lecturing and in general being magnets
and the cause for most of the noise seen here because like it or not,
most people see MVPs blindly defending Microsoft no matter how dumb a
policy or blunder they've made. Funny to be sure, but also sad to see
what once was a pretty good idea sink to the level it is now which is
more a negative.

 

[Saucy]

"Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:eT$0mbH9HHA.1484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> And have you looked at prices for other Vista flavours, bearing in mind
> that many will like the idea of finally getting Media Centre, and may well
> have slightly higher aspirations than your brother?
>
>
>

Sure, Vista is offered in a range of editions. About Vista Home Basic can be
had for $89 USD but here's typical pricing spread from CompUSA:

$199 USD for Business ed.
$ 99 USD for Home Basic ed.
$159 USD for Home Premium ed.
$259 USD for Ultimate ed.

Note though, customers already running Vista Basic or Vista Home Premium can
upgrade to Vista Ultimate ed. for $199 USD and $179 USD, respectively.

But with all that said and done, a family running XP Home can gain all the
benefits of running Vista for about $89 USD - including Parental Controls -
which makes for a very nice upgrade.

[(unoffical) Windows Vista Feature Comparison - Tom Porterfield MVP]
http://support.teloep.org/vistaver.htm

[Compare Vista Editions - Microsoft]
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pr.../choose.mspx?wt_svl=10033WHa1&mg_id=10033WHb1

[Can your PC run Vista? -Microsoft]
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pr...advisor.mspx?wt_svl=10008WHa1&mg_id=10008WHb1

Saucy

 

[Frank]

Adam Albright wrote:

> On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 05:35:37 -0400, "Richard Urban"
> <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I have installed Vista on more than 250 computers since last November.
>>So, I am NOT going to say that Vista is flawless. I *AM* going to state what
>>my experience has been.
>>
>>Other people may have problems. I help as I can. But I am ***NOT*** going to
>>beat the drum for those with problems, given the above percentages that my
>>years of records prove out to me.
>
>
> Most of typical MVP BS deleted.
>
>>The odds are just too great that they have caused their own problem!
>
>
> Thanks for confirming you're nothing but a screwdriver jockey who
> thinks he's a computer "expert" because he figured out how to push an
> idiot proof connector into a motherboard, screw down a hard drive and
> plug in the power and data cables and similar no brainer tasks which
> is all that's required to assemble a PC. Oh excuse me, me bad, these
> kind of menial tasks is what you guys call "building" a computer. It's
> really called ASSEMBLING and is on a par with somebody at one of
> Amazon's warehouses considering themselves a technician when they put
> your ordered books in a cardboard box, fill up the spaces with
> shipping peanuts and seal up the carton with shipping tape.
>
> As far as "installing" Vista, if you can manage to open the disk drive
> door (pushing a button isn't too hard for most people), place the disc
> in the caddy, shut the disc drive door and follow on screen prompts,
> oh wow, I guess you're now qualified as a "software engineer"
> according to the loony standards accepted by some in this newsgroup
> for "expert" ranking.
>
> And you guys wonder why I laugh at you? Please, be serious.
>
> ROTFLMAO!
>
hehehehe...well..mr computer expert...mr (according to you) genius...why
is it that you cannot, with all your "expertise", get one little, simple
in place (first clue?) upgrade install of Vista business to run correctly?
Well mr computer expert, mr genius...you constantly berate and belittle
those who can run Vista without problems and yet you, with all of your
self-proclaimed expertise can't.
Why is that, huh?
Frank

 

[Mike Hall - MVP]

All in USD.. most of the civilized world outside of the 50 states pays quite
a bit more..


"Saucy" <saucy538347334873772.sjhdf@net.net.net> wrote in message
news:ezfHZBI9HHA.3900@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message
> news:eT$0mbH9HHA.1484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> And have you looked at prices for other Vista flavours, bearing in mind
>> that many will like the idea of finally getting Media Centre, and may
>> well have slightly higher aspirations than your brother?
>>
>>
>>
>
> Sure, Vista is offered in a range of editions. About Vista Home Basic can
> be had for $89 USD but here's typical pricing spread from CompUSA:
>
> $199 USD for Business ed.
> $ 99 USD for Home Basic ed.
> $159 USD for Home Premium ed.
> $259 USD for Ultimate ed.
>
> Note though, customers already running Vista Basic or Vista Home Premium
> can upgrade to Vista Ultimate ed. for $199 USD and $179 USD, respectively.
>
> But with all that said and done, a family running XP Home can gain all the
> benefits of running Vista for about $89 USD - including Parental
> Controls - which makes for a very nice upgrade.
>
> [(unoffical) Windows Vista Feature Comparison - Tom Porterfield MVP]
> http://support.teloep.org/vistaver.htm
>
> [Compare Vista Editions - Microsoft]
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pr.../choose.mspx?wt_svl=10033WHa1&mg_id=10033WHb1
>
> [Can your PC run Vista? -Microsoft]
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pr...advisor.mspx?wt_svl=10008WHa1&mg_id=10008WHb1
>
> Saucy

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

 

[Adam Albright]

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 09:07:38 -0700, Frank <fb@nospan.crm> wrote:

>Adam Albright wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 05:35:37 -0400, "Richard Urban"
>> <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I have installed Vista on more than 250 computers since last November.
>>>So, I am NOT going to say that Vista is flawless. I *AM* going to state what
>>>my experience has been.
>>>
>>>Other people may have problems. I help as I can. But I am ***NOT*** going to
>>>beat the drum for those with problems, given the above percentages that my
>>>years of records prove out to me.
>>
>>
>> Most of typical MVP BS deleted.
>>
>>>The odds are just too great that they have caused their own problem!
>>
>>
>> Thanks for confirming you're nothing but a screwdriver jockey who
>> thinks he's a computer "expert" because he figured out how to push an
>> idiot proof connector into a motherboard, screw down a hard drive and
>> plug in the power and data cables and similar no brainer tasks which
>> is all that's required to assemble a PC. Oh excuse me, me bad, these
>> kind of menial tasks is what you guys call "building" a computer. It's
>> really called ASSEMBLING and is on a par with somebody at one of
>> Amazon's warehouses considering themselves a technician when they put
>> your ordered books in a cardboard box, fill up the spaces with
>> shipping peanuts and seal up the carton with shipping tape.
>>
>> As far as "installing" Vista, if you can manage to open the disk drive
>> door (pushing a button isn't too hard for most people), place the disc
>> in the caddy, shut the disc drive door and follow on screen prompts,
>> oh wow, I guess you're now qualified as a "software engineer"
>> according to the loony standards accepted by some in this newsgroup
>> for "expert" ranking.
>>
>> And you guys wonder why I laugh at you? Please, be serious.
>>
>> ROTFLMAO!
>>
>hehehehe...well..mr computer expert...mr (according to you) genius...why
>is it that you cannot, with all your "expertise", get one little, simple
> in place (first clue?) upgrade install of Vista business to run correctly?
>Well mr computer expert, mr genius...you constantly berate and belittle
>those who can run Vista without problems and yet you, with all of your
>self-proclaimed expertise can't.
>Why is that, huh?
>Frank

Congratulations Frank! This marks the 100th time you repeated the same
lie that I can't install Vista or get it to run correctly. That a boy!
Way to go! Whoopee for you! You are now officially the most prolific
liar in this newsgroup. I bet you're proud of yourself!

 

[The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly]

Charlie Tame wrote:
> The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'
> wrote:
>> Charlie Tame wrote:
>>> The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina
>>> DiBoy' wrote:
>>>> Charlie Tame wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I am a Microsoft MVP not a "Linux Person" but
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>> Wow, I never would have guessed! For how long now?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Probably not much longer at the rate things are going, oh well. The
>>> fact is that sometimes a big company needs realistic criticism, just
>>> as governments do.
>>>
>>> I started off maybe 4 years back helping some folks out with OE
>>> problems and had some W2000 security info on a website but soon after
>>> getting the award life changed somewhat with a new job etc and my
>>> spare time went along with it
>>>
>>> MS employs a lot of people and most of them don't deserve to lose
>>> their jobs, but some at the top do, given the appalling decisions
>>> they sometimes make. What annoys me is they can be both brilliant and
>>> innovative yet seem to make the same mistakes over and over and then
>>> are very slow to respond.
>>>
>>> They need to be aware that the problems they have created with Vista,
>>> DRM, WGA and WPA and shipping with a simple thing like the mail
>>> clients unfinished and undecided, actively encourages, no, even
>>> forces people to look elsewhere. As the Captain of the Titanic
>>> discovered not everything moves out of the way just because it's a
>>> big ship.
>>
>> Yes, I agree with Adam that you are a refreshing change to some of the
>> MVP shills here. Although I don't think of all or even most MVPs as
>> shills.
>>
>
>
> I try to say what I see basically, and I agree that it is far from most
> MVPs, which is why I don't take offense, but when you see what goes on
> you have to laugh at it.
>
> I don't know Vista as well as I should because I wasn't able to be in on
> the Beta and hence have not used it as much as some, however some of the
> flaws kinda hit you right in the face. There are some Linux and Multi OS
> users here who give far more useful advice than the shills, who
> basically think advice consists of slamming some other OS or redirecting
> posters (often sarcastically) to the "Right" newsgroup. If they want to
> support Microsoft and / or the users of MS products that's a piss poor
> way to go about it, especially as some new folks are nervous about
> asking and don't want to make themselves look like fools. Regrettably I
> think some come here for the pleasure of making others look foolish, you
> already know who I mean
>
> MS can look after themselves, I look to getting the best value for the
> users, I am one remember ???
>
> That is not anti Microsoft or anti anything, it's capitalism more than
> anything else.
>
> The thing is that ever the most modern car or washing machine or
> anything else will eventually wear out and need to be replaced. That is
> somewhat true of computer hardware but less frequent unless some new
> innovation that's essential comes along. It is even less true of
> software because that never "Wears out" per se, only when something else
> new and essential makes it redundant.
>
> Therefore a company like Microsoft MUST generate innovation and demand
> for new things, new ideas. IMHO Linux is catching up fast with stuff
> that's historically been awkward - drivers and stuff I mean. If a big
> developer like Valve decided to port to Linux then MS would have a big
> market to lose. Maybe games are trivial, but a lot of businesses don't
> want employees wasting time browsing and so a server and some thin
> client terminals is becoming a way to avoid that. The "PC" boom in
> business may just be on it's way back down, and how many want a home PC
> for business, no they want it for recreation. This means that the price
> of an OS will come into it more. With the growing numbers of Linux users
> willing to help out a bit and Linux getting easier and easier to use,
> and already professional competition from Apple alienating the users who
> got Windows on the cheap originally may be a very bad idea. If people
> "Stole" Windows the same people are going to be reluctant to pay too
> much for it now, and if they can get the same from Linux quite easily
> they may as well stay legal, no?
>
> In that regard the people spouting endless praise instead of balanced
> concern aren't really helping
>
> If MS feel that WGA / WPA and DRM - and making users aware that they
> depend on some server someplace is their best course then fine, they are
> free to go their own way - but in the same way so am I and so is
> everybody else.
>
> I don't steal their software although I'm sure we have all accidentally
> broken some EULA somewhere along the road to where we are, but I get
> accused of it along with the rest, and I see the real thieves still
> doing it. Were these measures having an impact in the right way I would
> accept some inconvenience but I don't see where they are having any
> impact at all on the real problem.
>
> Give me some good reason not to go for a system that as yet has none of
> these nuisances - and as you can see nobody here has actually given that
> reason yet. That's not anti MS or anti anything, it is no more than
> asking a car manufacturer why his model is better than a rival's.

You are right on several points here, and I really can't give you a good
reason because I haven't found one myself either.

--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

"Fair use is not merely a nice concept--it is a federal law based on
free speech rights under the First Amendment and is a cornerstone of the
creativity and innovation that is a hallmark of this country. Consumer
rights in the digital age are not frivolous."
- Maura Corbett

 

[Saucy]

"Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:ubQIh$I9HHA.1900@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> All in USD.. most of the civilized world outside of the 50 states pays
> quite a bit more..
>
>
> "Saucy" <saucy538347334873772.sjhdf@net.net.net> wrote in message
> news:ezfHZBI9HHA.3900@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message
>> news:eT$0mbH9HHA.1484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>> And have you looked at prices for other Vista flavours, bearing in mind
>>> that many will like the idea of finally getting Media Centre, and may
>>> well have slightly higher aspirations than your brother?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Sure, Vista is offered in a range of editions. About Vista Home Basic can
>> be had for $89 USD but here's typical pricing spread from CompUSA:
>>
>> $199 USD for Business ed.
>> $ 99 USD for Home Basic ed.
>> $159 USD for Home Premium ed.
>> $259 USD for Ultimate ed.
>>
>> Note though, customers already running Vista Basic or Vista Home Premium
>> can upgrade to Vista Ultimate ed. for $199 USD and $179 USD,
>> respectively.
>>
>> But with all that said and done, a family running XP Home can gain all
>> the benefits of running Vista for about $89 USD - including Parental
>> Controls - which makes for a very nice upgrade.
>>
>> [(unoffical) Windows Vista Feature Comparison - Tom Porterfield MVP]
>> http://support.teloep.org/vistaver.htm
>>
>> [Compare Vista Editions - Microsoft]
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pr.../choose.mspx?wt_svl=10033WHa1&mg_id=10033WHb1
>>
>> [Can your PC run Vista? -Microsoft]
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pr...advisor.mspx?wt_svl=10008WHa1&mg_id=10008WHb1
>>
>> Saucy
>
> --
>
>
> Mike Hall
> MS MVP Windows Shell/User
> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
>
>
>


Mr. Hall:

Well, the Europeans wanted the 'N' editions created and then on top of that
to punish Microsoft to the tune of hundreds and hundreds of millions of
euros in penalties .. so boo hoo. If the Europeans want a refund they can
ask the EU for all I care. Korea got in on the act too and Micorsoft had to
create special K verions (pun not intended).

Anyway, Microsoft has a suggestion box. If Vista pricing concerns you, go
ahead and tell them:

[Windows Vista Feedback - Microsoft]
http://feedback.windowsvista.micros...kurl=http://support.microsoft.com/gp/cp_vista

*But*, Mr. Hall, Vista Home Basic at $89 USD does make for a good upgrade,
especially for families who could use the benefits of Parental Controls.

'Have a nice afternoon,
Saucy

 

[Frank]

Adam Albright wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 09:07:38 -0700, Frank <fb@nospan.crm> wrote:
>
>
>>Adam Albright wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 05:35:37 -0400, "Richard Urban"
>>><richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I have installed Vista on more than 250 computers since last November.
>>>>So, I am NOT going to say that Vista is flawless. I *AM* going to state what
>>>>my experience has been.
>>>>
>>>>Other people may have problems. I help as I can. But I am ***NOT*** going to
>>>>beat the drum for those with problems, given the above percentages that my
>>>>years of records prove out to me.
>>>
>>>
>>>Most of typical MVP BS deleted.
>>>
>>>
>>>>The odds are just too great that they have caused their own problem!
>>>
>>>
>>>Thanks for confirming you're nothing but a screwdriver jockey who
>>>thinks he's a computer "expert" because he figured out how to push an
>>>idiot proof connector into a motherboard, screw down a hard drive and
>>>plug in the power and data cables and similar no brainer tasks which
>>>is all that's required to assemble a PC. Oh excuse me, me bad, these
>>>kind of menial tasks is what you guys call "building" a computer. It's
>>>really called ASSEMBLING and is on a par with somebody at one of
>>>Amazon's warehouses considering themselves a technician when they put
>>>your ordered books in a cardboard box, fill up the spaces with
>>>shipping peanuts and seal up the carton with shipping tape.
>>>
>>>As far as "installing" Vista, if you can manage to open the disk drive
>>>door (pushing a button isn't too hard for most people), place the disc
>>>in the caddy, shut the disc drive door and follow on screen prompts,
>>>oh wow, I guess you're now qualified as a "software engineer"
>>>according to the loony standards accepted by some in this newsgroup
>>>for "expert" ranking.
>>>
>>>And you guys wonder why I laugh at you? Please, be serious.
>>>
>>>ROTFLMAO!
>>>
>>
>>hehehehe...well..mr computer expert...mr (according to you) genius...why
>>is it that you cannot, with all your "expertise", get one little, simple
>> in place (first clue?) upgrade install of Vista business to run correctly?
>>Well mr computer expert, mr genius...you constantly berate and belittle
>>those who can run Vista without problems and yet you, with all of your
>>self-proclaimed expertise can't.
>>Why is that, huh?
>>Frank
>
>
> Congratulations Frank! This marks the 100th time you repeated the same
> lie that I can't install Vista or get it to run correctly. That a boy!
> Way to go! Whoopee for you! You are now officially the most prolific
> liar in this newsgroup. I bet you're proud of yourself!
>

hehehe...I don't think so you stupid PUTZ seeing as how you're the one
who posted that you were having the problem. Or was that just another
one of your fukkin lies, huh?
Or are you just back pedaling to avoid the question?
Or is it that you simply can't admit that you're an incompetent big
mouth fool?
Well...which one is it, huh?
Frank

 

[The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly]

Adam Albright wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 22:34:51 -0500, The poster formerly known as 'The
> Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy' <none@none.not> wrote:
>
>> Charlie Tame wrote:
>>> The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'
>>> wrote:
>>>> Charlie Tame wrote:
>>>>> I am a Microsoft MVP not a "Linux Person" but
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>> Wow, I never would have guessed! For how long now?
>>>>
>>> Probably not much longer at the rate things are going, oh well. The fact
>>> is that sometimes a big company needs realistic criticism, just as
>>> governments do.
>>>
>>> I started off maybe 4 years back helping some folks out with OE problems
>>> and had some W2000 security info on a website but soon after getting the
>>> award life changed somewhat with a new job etc and my spare time went
>>> along with it
>>>
>>> MS employs a lot of people and most of them don't deserve to lose their
>>> jobs, but some at the top do, given the appalling decisions they
>>> sometimes make. What annoys me is they can be both brilliant and
>>> innovative yet seem to make the same mistakes over and over and then are
>>> very slow to respond.
>>>
>>> They need to be aware that the problems they have created with Vista,
>>> DRM, WGA and WPA and shipping with a simple thing like the mail clients
>>> unfinished and undecided, actively encourages, no, even forces people to
>>> look elsewhere. As the Captain of the Titanic discovered not everything
>>> moves out of the way just because it's a big ship.
>> Yes, I agree with Adam that you are a refreshing change to some of the
>> MVP shills here. Although I don't think of all or even most MVPs as shills.
>
> I wouldn't pick the word shill, but I guess one could make a case for
> it applying to a few of the MVPs here. I see the typical MVP as
> blinded and seeing their purpose (as misguided as it is) as defending
> Microsoft which I find ludicrous. Hint: That isn't what the MVP
> program was created for!
>
> The intent of the MVP program as it was originally constituted was to
> have a small group of people that earned their stripes by showing they
> had some knowledge and experience beyond that of typical users. These
> guys were suppose to HELP people having problems.
>
> Now, more often than not, the typical MVP, at least seen way too often
> in this NG is boasting, bragging, pontificating, trying to act like
> they're in change, scolding, lecturing and in general being magnets
> and the cause for most of the noise seen here because like it or not,
> most people see MVPs blindly defending Microsoft no matter how dumb a
> policy or blunder they've made. Funny to be sure, but also sad to see
> what once was a pretty good idea sink to the level it is now which is
> more a negative.
>

Sorry Adam, did not mean to put words in your mouth.

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