OT: RIAA: It's 'Illegal' to Rip Your Own CDs to Your Own Computer

[Daave]

caver1 wrote:
> Daave wrote:
>> The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina
>> DiBoy' wrote:
>>> Daave wrote:
>>>> HeyBub wrote:
>>>>> There is no "fair use" copying of music CDs, software
>>>>> distributions, or other things we talk about here.
>>>> Although there may be no fair use exemption for software
>>>> distributions,
>>> But there is for software distributions:
>>> http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/117.html
>>
>> Yes, I know. When I said "may," I was acknowledging that there "is."
>>
>> I guess I should have just said "is."
>>
>> (Then again that would all depend on what the definition of "is"
>> is...)
>>
>>
>
> This is in Title 17 chapter 10 subchapter d of the
> Copyright Law of the United States of America
> and Related Laws Contained in Title 17 of the
> United States Code
>
> § 1008. Prohibition on certain infringement actions
>
> No action may be brought under this title alleging
> infringement of copyright based on the
> manufacture, importation, or distribution of a
> digital audio recording device, a digital audio
> recording medium, an analog recording device, or
> an analog recording medium, or based on the
> noncommercial use by a consumer of such a device
> or medium for making digital musical recordings or
> analog musical recordings.
>
> If you cannot have action brought against you
> under this code for non commercial use for making
> those recordings Then yes there is fair use coping
> of cds.
> caver1

Yes, the fair use exemption for the copying of *music* CDs has been
established. My original quote:

Although there may be no fair use exemption for software distributions,
there is one for the copying of music CDs (for personal, noncommercial
use). See Audio Home Recording Act of 1992, 17 U.S.C. § 1008.

Also see "RECORDING INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA v. DIAMOND
MULTIMEDIA SYS., 180 F.3d 1072 (9th Cir. 1999)":

http://www.law.cornell.edu/copyright/cases/180_F3d_1072.htm

 

[caver1]

Daave wrote:
> caver1 wrote:
>> Daave wrote:
>>> The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina
>>> DiBoy' wrote:
>>>> Daave wrote:
>>>>> HeyBub wrote:
>>>>>> There is no "fair use" copying of music CDs, software
>>>>>> distributions, or other things we talk about here.
>>>>> Although there may be no fair use exemption for software
>>>>> distributions,
>>>> But there is for software distributions:
>>>> http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/117.html
>>> Yes, I know. When I said "may," I was acknowledging that there "is."
>>>
>>> I guess I should have just said "is."
>>>
>>> (Then again that would all depend on what the definition of "is"
>>> is...)
>>>
>>>
>> This is in Title 17 chapter 10 subchapter d of the
>> Copyright Law of the United States of America
>> and Related Laws Contained in Title 17 of the
>> United States Code
>>
>> § 1008. Prohibition on certain infringement actions
>>
>> No action may be brought under this title alleging
>> infringement of copyright based on the
>> manufacture, importation, or distribution of a
>> digital audio recording device, a digital audio
>> recording medium, an analog recording device, or
>> an analog recording medium, or based on the
>> noncommercial use by a consumer of such a device
>> or medium for making digital musical recordings or
>> analog musical recordings.
>>
>> If you cannot have action brought against you
>> under this code for non commercial use for making
>> those recordings Then yes there is fair use coping
>> of cds.
>> caver1
>
> Yes, the fair use exemption for the copying of *music* CDs has been
> established. My original quote:
>
> Although there may be no fair use exemption for software distributions,
> there is one for the copying of music CDs (for personal, noncommercial
> use). See Audio Home Recording Act of 1992, 17 U.S.C. § 1008.
>
> Also see "RECORDING INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA v. DIAMOND
> MULTIMEDIA SYS., 180 F.3d 1072 (9th Cir. 1999)":
>
> http://www.law.cornell.edu/copyright/cases/180_F3d_1072.htm
>
>



I should have sniped. my reference to the
copyright laws was in answer to Heybub who thinks
that if he doesn't do any research he can hide his
head in the sand and say he is right.
caver1

 

[The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly]

Daave wrote:
> The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'
> wrote:
>> Daave wrote:
>>> HeyBub wrote:
>>>> There is no "fair use" copying of music CDs, software distributions,
>>>> or other things we talk about here.
>>> Although there may be no fair use exemption for software
>>> distributions,
>> But there is for software distributions:
>> http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/117.html
>
> Yes, I know. When I said "may," I was acknowledging that there "is."
>
> I guess I should have just said "is."
>
> (Then again that would all depend on what the definition of "is" is...)
>
>

It's all good!


--
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"Fair use is not merely a nice concept--it is a federal law based on
free speech rights under the First Amendment and is a cornerstone of the
creativity and innovation that is a hallmark of this country. Consumer
rights in the digital age are not frivolous."
- Maura Corbett

 

[Plato]

Re: RIAA: It's 'Illegal' to Rip Your Own CDs to Your Own Computer

Gilgamesh wrote:
>
> I thought US copy right law had something called "Fair Use" that let you
> make backup copies of legitimatly purchased media. (Unfortunately that is
> not part of Australian copyright law :-( )

Which doesn't mean one cant put copy protection on any CD.


--
http://www.bootdisk.com/

 

[Red Henk]

by appearances! How ludicrous is reason, blown with a
breath in every direction!

I should have to enumerate almost every action of men who scarce waver save
under her assaults. For reason has been obliged to yield, and the wisest
reason takes as her own principles those which the imagination of man has
everywhere rashly introduced. He who would follow reason only would be
deemed foolish by the generality of men. We must judge by the opinion of the
majority of mankind. Because it has pleased them, we must work all day for
pleasures seen to be imaginary and, after sleep has refreshed our tired
reason, we must forthwith start up and rush after phantoms, and suffer the
impressions of this mistress of the world. This is one of the sources of
error, but it is not the only one.

Our magistrates have known well this mystery. Their red robes, the ermine in
which they wrap themselves like furry cats, the courts in which they
administer justice, the fleurs-de-lis, and all such august apparel were
necessary if the physicians had not their cassocks and their mules, if the
doctors had not their square caps and their robes four times too wide, they
would never have duped the world, which cannot resist so original an
appearance. If magistrates had true justice, and if physicians had the true
art of healing, they would have no occasion for square caps the majesty of
these sciences would of itself be venerabl

 

[Stephan Rose]

Re: RIAA: It's 'Illegal' to Rip Your Own CDs to Your Own Computer

innocence consisted in using and having
dominion over the creatures, but now in separating himself from them and
subjecting himself to them.

487. Every religion is false which, as to its faith, does not worship one
God as the origin of everything and which, as to its morality, does not love
one only God as the object of everything.

488.... But it is impossible that God should ever be the end, if He is not
the beginning. We lift our eyes on high, but lean upon the sand and the
earth will dissolve, and we shall fall whilst looking at the heavens.

489. If there is one sole source of everything, there is one sole end of
everything everything through Him, everything for Him. The true religion,
then, must teach us to worship Him only, and to love Him only. But as we
find ourselves unable to worship what we know not, and to love any other
object but ourselves, the religion which instructs us in these duties must
instruct us also of this inability, and teach us also the remedies for it.
It teaches us that by one man all was lost, and the bond broken between God
and us, and that by one man the bond is renewed.

We are born so averse to this love of God, and it is so necessary, that we
must be born guilty, or God would be unjust.

490. Men, not being accustomed to form merit, but only to recompense it
where they find it formed, judge of God by themselves.

491. The true religion must have as a characteristic the obligation to love
God. This is very just, and yet no oth

 

[jim]

UPDATE : RIAA Washington Post CD copy story was a LIE.....

certitude for,
after having established that all their ways are sure, they have no longer
called that sure which leads to heaven without danger of not arriving there
by it, but that which leads there without danger of going out of that road.

921.... The saints indulge in subtleties in order to think themselves
criminals and impeach their better actions. And these indulge in subtleties
in order to excuse the most wicked.

The heathen sages erected a structure equally fine outside, but upon a bad
foundation and the devil deceived men by this apparent resemblance based
upon the most different foundation.

Man never had so good a cause as I and others have never furnished so good
a capture as you...

The more they point out weakness in my person, the more they authorise my
cause.

You say that I am a heretic. Is that lawful? And if you do not fear that men
do justice, do you not fear that God does justice?

You will feel the force of the truth, and you will yield to it...

There is something supernatural in such a blindness. Digna necessitas.231
Mentiris impudentissime.232

Doctrina sua noscetur vir...[233]

False piety, a double sin.

I am alone against

 

[Darth Chaos]

to excuse them, intersperse
praises and evidence of love and esteem. Despite all this, the medicine does
not cease to be bitter to self-love. It takes as little as it can, always
with disgust, and often with a secret spite against those who administer it.

Hence it happens that, if any have some interest in being loved by us, they
are averse to render us a service which they know to be disagreeable. They
treat us as we wish to be treated. We hate the truth, and they hide it from
us. We desire flattery, and they flatter us. We like to be deceived, and
they deceive us.

So each degree of good fortune which raises us in the world removes us
farther from truth, because we are most afraid of wounding those whose
affection is most useful and whose dislike is most dangerous. A prince may
be the byword of all Europe, and he alone will know nothing of it. I am not
astonished. To tell the truth is useful to those to whom it is spoken, but
disadvantageous to those who tell it, because it makes them disliked. Now
those who live with princes love their own interests more than that of the
prince whom they serve and so they take care not to confer on him a benefit
so as to injure themselves.

This evil is no doubt greater and more common among the higher classes but
the lower are not exempt from it, since there is always some advantage in
making men love us. Human life is thus only a perpetual illusion men
deceive and flatter each other. No one speaks of us in our presence as he
does of us in our absence. Human society is founded on mutual deceit few
friendships would endure if each knew what his friend said of him in his
absence, although he then spoke in sincerity and without passion.

Man is, then, only disguise, falsehood, and hypocrisy, both in himself and
in

 

[Thufir]

and are borne towards the Infinite. Who
will follow these marvellous processes? The Author of these wonders
understands them. None other can do so.

Through failure to contemplate these Infinites, men have rashly rushed into
the examination of nature, as though they bore some proportion to her. It is
strange that they have wished to understand the beginnings of things, and
thence to arrive at the knowledge of the whole, with a presumption as
infinite as their object. For surely this design cannot be formed without
presumption or without a capacity infinite like nature.

If we are well informed, we understand that, as nature has graven her image
and that of her Author on all things, they almost all partake of her double
infinity. Thus we see that all the sciences are infinite in the extent of
their researches. For who doubts that geometry, for instance, has an
infinite infinity of problems to solve? They are also infinite in the
multitude and fineness of their premises for it is clear that those which
are put forward as ultimate are not self-supporting, but are based on others
which, again having others for their support, do not permit of finality. But
we represent some as ultimate for reason, in the same way as in regard to
material objects we call that an indivisible point beyond which our senses
can no longer perceive anything, although by its nature it is infinitely
divisible.

Of these two Infinites of science, that of greatness is the most palpable,
and hence a few persons have pretended to know all things. "I will speak of
the whole," said Democritus.

But the infinitely little is the leas

 

[Mark Kent]

Re: RIAA: It's 'Illegal' to Rip Your Own CDs to Your Own Computer

MAN WITHOUT GOD
o SECTION III: OF THE NECESSITY OF THE WAGER
o SECTION IV: OF THE MEANS OF BELIEF
o SECTION V: JUSTICE AND THE REASON OF EFFECTS
o SECTION VI: THE PHILOSOPHERS
o SECTION VII: MORALITY AND DOCTRINE
o SECTION VIII: THE FUNDAMENTALS OF THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION
o SECTION IX: PERPETUITY
o SECTION X: TYPOLOGY
o SECTION XI: THE PROPHECIES
o SECTION XII: PROOFS OF JESUS CHRIST
o SECTION XIII: THE MIRACLES
o SECTION XIV: APPENDIX: POLEMICAL FRAGMENTS

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

PENSÉES

by Blaise Pascal

1660

translated by W. F. Trotter

PENSÉES

SECTION I: THOUGHTS ON MIND AND ON STYLE

1. The difference between the mathematical and the intuitive mind.--In the
one, the principles are palpable, but removed from ordinary use so that for
want of habit it is difficult to turn one's mind in that direction: but if
one turns it thither ever so little, one sees the principles fully, and one
must have a quite inaccurate mind who reasons wrongly from principles so
plain that it is almost impossible they should escape notice.

But in the intuitive mind the principles are

 

[Stephan Rose]

Re: RIAA: It's 'Illegal' to Rip Your Own CDs to Your Own Computer

without
the two, for the people must understand the spirit of the letter, and the
learned must submit their spirit to the letter.

252. For we must not misunderstand ourselves we are as much automatic as
intellectual and hence it comes that the instrument by which conviction is
attained is not demonstrated alone. How few things are demonstrated! Proofs
only convince the mind. Custom is the source of our strongest and most
believed proofs. It bends the automaton, which persuades the mind without
its thinking about the matter. Who has demonstrated that there will be a
to-morrow and that we shall die? And what is more believed? It is, then,
custom which persuades us of it it is custom that makes so many men
Christians custom that makes them Turks, heathens, artisans, soldiers, etc.
(Faith in baptism is more received among Christians than among Turks.)
Finally, we must have recourse to it when once the mind has seen where the
truth is, in order to quench our thirst, and steep ourselves in that belief,
which escapes us at every hour for always to ha

 

[Red Henk]

Re: RIAA: It's 'Illegal' to Rip Your Own CDs to Your Own Computer

seemed as though her life was going, and that she saw it was
easy with God to take away her life by discoveries of Himself. Soon
after this she went to a private religious meeting, and her mind was
full of a sense and view of the glory of God all the time. When the
exercise was ended, some asked her concerning what she had experienced,
and she began to give an account, but as she was relating it, it revived
such a sense of the same things, that her strength failed, and they were
obliged to take her and lay her upon the bed. Afterwards she was greatly
affected, and rejoiced with these words, Worthy is the Lamb that was
slain! She had several days together a sweet sense of the excellency and
loveliness of Christ in His meekness, which disposed her continually to
be repeating over these words, which were sweet to her, meek and lowly
in heart, meek and lowly in heart. She once expressed herself to one of
her sisters to this purpose, that she had continued whole days and whole
nights, in a constant ravishing view of the glory of God and Christ,
having enjoyed as much as her life could bear. Once, as her brother was
speaking of the dying love of Christ, she told him, she had such a sense
of it, that the mere mentioning of it was ready to overcome her.

Once, when she came to me, she said,-that at such and such a time, she
thought she saw as much of God, and had as much joy and pleasure, as was
possible in this life and that yet, afterwards, God discovered Himself
far more abundantly. She saw the same things as before, yet more
clearly, and in a far more excellent and delightful manner and was
filled with a more exceeding sweetness. She likewise

 

[Beamguy]

Re: RIAA: It's 'Illegal' to Rip Your Own CDs to Your Own Computer

and render all useless! We shall prevent you, my father truth is
one and constant.

It is impossible, from the duty of God to men, that a man, hiding his evil
teaching, and only showing the good, saying that he conforms to God and the
Church, should do miracles so as to instil insensibly a false and subtle
doctrine. This cannot happen.

And still less that God, who knows the heart should perform miracles in
favour of such a one.

844. The three marks of religion: perpetuity, a good life, miracles. They
destroy perpetuity by their doctrine of probability a good life by their
morals, miracles by destroying either their truth or the conclusions to be
drawn from them.

If we believe them, the Church will have nothing to do with perpetuity,
holiness, and miracles. The heretics deny them, or deny the conclusions to
be drawn from them they do the same. But one would need to have no
sincerity in order to deny them, or again to lose one's senses in order to
deny the conclusions to be drawn from them.

Nobody has ever suffered martyrdom for the miracles which he says he has
seen for the folly of men goes perhaps to the length of martyrdom, for
those which the Turks believe by tradition, but not for those which they
have seen.

845. The heretics have always attacked these three marks, which they have
not.

846. First objection: "An angel from heaven. We

 

[The Ghost In The Machine]

without for the most part being able to demonstrate
them in order as in mathematics, because the principles are not known to us
in the same way, and because it would be an endless matter to undertake it.
We must see the matter at once, at one glance, and not by a process of
reasoning, at least to a certain degree. And thus it is rare that
mathematicians are intuitive and that men of intuition are mathematicians,
because mathematicians wish to treat matters of intuition mathematically and
make themselves ridiculous, wishing to begin with definitions and then with
axioms, which is not the way to proceed in this kind of reasoning. Not that
the mind does not do so, but it does it tacitly, naturally, and without
technical rules for the expression of it is beyond all men, and only a few
can feel it.

Intuitive minds, on the contrary, being thus accustomed to judge at a single
glance, are so astonished when they are presented with propositions of which
they understand nothing, and the way to which is through definitions and
axioms so sterile, and which they are not accustomed to see thus in detail,
that they are repelled and disheartened.

But dull minds are never either intuitive or mathematical.

Mathematicians who are only mathematicians have exact minds, provided all
things are explained to them by means of definitions and axioms otherwise
they are inaccurate and insufferable, for they are on

 

[Mark R. Cusumano]

Re: RIAA: It's 'Illegal' to Rip Your Own CDs to Your Own Computer

opposition to it is so little dangerous that it
serves, on the contrary, to establish its truths. For the Christian faith
goes mainly to establish these two facts: the corruption of nature, and
redemption by Jesus Christ. Now I contend that, if these men do not serve to
prove the truth of the redemption by the holiness of their behaviour, they
at least serve admirably to show the corruption of nature by sentiments so
unnatural.

Nothing is so important to man as his own state, nothing is so formidable to
him as eternity and thus it is not natural that there should be men
indifferent to the loss of their existence, and to the perils of everlasting
suffering. They are quite different with regard to all other things. They
are afraid of mere trifles they foresee them they feel them. And this same
man who spends so many days and nights in rage and despair for the loss of
office, or for some imaginary insult to his honour, is the very one who
knows without anxiety and without emotion that he will lose all by death. It
is a monstrous thing to see in the same heart and at the same time this
sensibility to trifles and this strange insensibility to the greatest
objects. It is an incomprehensible enchantment, and a supernatural slumber,
which indicates as its cause an all-powerful force.

There must be a strange confusion in the nature of man, that he should boast
of being in that state in which it seems incredible that a single individual
should be. However, experience has shown me so great a number of such
persons that the fact would be surprising, if we did not know that the
greater part of those who trouble themselves about the matter are
disingenuous and not, in fact, what they say. They are people

 

[Linonut]

Re: UPDATE : RIAA Washington Post CD copy story was a LIE.....

send them the Messiah to make them
masters of all the world, and foretold the time of His coming.

The world having grown old in these carnal errors, Jesus Christ came at the
time foretold, but not with the expected glory and thus men did not think
it was He. After His death, Saint Paul came to teach men that all these
things had happened in allegory that the kingdom of God did not consist in
the flesh, but in the spirit that the enemies of men were not the
Babylonians, but the passions that God delighted not in temples made with
hands, but in a pure and contrite heart that the circumcision of the body
was unprofitable, but that of the heart was needed that Moses had not given
them the bread from heaven, etc.

But God, not having desired to reveal these things to this people who were
unworthy of them and having, nevertheless, desired to foretell them, in
order that they might be believed, foretold the time clearly, and expressed
the things sometimes clearly, but very often in figures, in order that those
who loved symbols might consider them and those who loved what was
symbolised might see it therein.

All that tends not to charity is figurative.

The sole aim of the Scripture is charity.

All which tends not to the sole end

 

[jim]

these two points, so is it
alike merciful of God to have made us know them. The Christian religion does
this it is in this that it consists.

Let us herein examine the order of the world and see if all things do not
tend to establish these two chief points of this religion: Jesus Christ is
end of all, and the centre to which all tends. Whoever knows Him knows the
reason of everything.

Those who fall into error err only through failure to see one of these two
things. We can, then, have an excellent knowledge of God without that of our
own wretchedness and of our own wretchedness without that of God. But we
cannot know Jesus Christ without knowing at the same time both God and our
own wretchedness.

Therefore I shall not undertake here to prove by natural reasons either the
existence of God, or the Trinity, or the immortality of the soul, or
anything of that nature not only because I should not feel myself
sufficiently able to find in nature arguments to convince hardened atheists,
but also because such knowledge without Jesus Christ is useless and barren.
Though a man should be convinced that numerical proportions are immaterial
truths, eternal and dependent on a first truth, in which they subsist and
which is called God, I should not think him far advanced towards his own
salvation.

The God of Christians is not a God who is simply the author of mathematical
truths, or of the order of the elements that is the view of heathens and
Epicureans. He is not merely a God who exercises His providence over the
life and fortunes of men, to bestow on those who worship Him a long and
happy life. That was the portion of the Jews. But the God of Abraham, the
God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, the God of Christians, is a God of love and
of comfort, a God who fills the soul and heart of those whom He possesses, a
God who makes them con

 

[The Ghost In The Machine]

Re: RIAA: It's 'Illegal' to Rip Your Own CDs to Your Own Computer

and that is
bold and difficult. There is never this contradiction in the feelings
towards a cripple.

81. It is natural for the mind to believe and for the will to love so that,
for want of true objects, they must attach themselves to false.

82. Imagination.--It is that deceitful part in man, that mistress of error
and falsity, the more deceptive that she is not always so for she would be
an infallible rule of truth, if she were an infallible rule of falsehood.
But being most generally false, she gives no sign of her nature, impressing
the same character on the true and the false.

I do not speak of fools, I speak of the wisest men and it is among them
that the imagination has the great gift of persuasion. Reason protests in
vain it cannot set a true value on things.

This arrogant power, the enemy of reason, who likes to rule and dominate it,
has established in man a second nature to show how all-powerful she is. She
makes men happy and sad, healthy and sick, rich and poor she compels reason
to believe, doubt, and deny she blunts the senses, or quickens them she
has her fools and sages and nothing vexes us more than to see that she
fills her devotees with a satisfaction far more full and entire than does
reason. Those who have a lively imagination are a great deal more pleased
with themselves than the wise can reasonably be. They look down upon men
with haughtiness they argue with boldness and confidence, others with fe

 

[Gilgamesh]

Re: RIAA: It's 'Illegal' to Rip Your Own CDs to Your Own Computer

in one, who, having been taken captive in
his childhood, was trained up m Canada in the popish religion. Some
years since he returned to this his native place, and was in a measure
brought off from popery but seemed very awkward and dull in receiving
any clear notion of the Protestant scheme till he was converted and
then he was remarkably altered in this respect.

There is a vast difference, as observed, in the degree, and also in the
particular manner, of persons' experiences, both at and after
conversion some have grace working more sensibly in one way, others in
another. Some speak more fully of a conviction of the justice of God in
their condemnation others, more of their consenting to the way of
salvation by Christ and some, more of the actings of love to God and
Christ. Some speak more of acts of affiance, in a sweet and assured
conviction of the truth and faithfulness of God in His promises others,
more of their choosing and resting in God as their whole and everlasting
portion and of their ardent and longing desire after God, to have
communion with Him and others, more of their abhorrence to themselves
for their past sins, and earnest longings to live to God's glory for the
time to come. But it seems evidently to be the same work, the same
habitual change wrought in the heart it all tends the same way, and to
the same end and it is plainly the same spirit that breathes and acts
in various persons. There is an endless variety in the particular manner
and circumstances in which persons are wrought on and an opportunity of
seeing so much will show that God is further from confining Himself to a
particular method in His work on souls than some imagine. I believe it
has occasioned some good people amongst us, who were before too ready to
make their own exp

 

[Ray Shafranski]

Re: RIAA: It's 'Illegal' to Rip Your Own CDs to Your Own Computer

the true spoken of, as appears by the Deluge, circumcision, the cross of
Saint Andrew, etc.

818. Having considered how it comes that there are so many false miracles,
false revelations, sorceries, etc., it has seemed to me that the true cause
is that there are some true for it would not be possible that there should
be so many false miracles, if there were none true, nor so many false
revelations, if there were none true, nor so many false religions, if there
were not one true. For if there had never been all this, it is almost
impossible that men should have imagined it, and still more impossible that
so many others should have believed it. But as there have been very great
things true, and as they have been believed by great men, this impression
has been the cause that nearly everybody is rendered capable of believing
also the false. And thus, instead of concluding that there are no true
miracles, since there are so many false, it must be said, on the contrary,
that there are true miracles, since there are so many false and that there
are false ones only because there are true and that in the same way there
are false religions because there is one true.--Objection to this: savages
have a religion. But this is because they have heard the true spoken of, as
appears by the cross of Saint Andrew, the Deluge, circumcision, etc. This
arises from the fact that the human mind, finding itself inclined to that
side by the truth, becomes thereby susceptible of all the falsehoods of
this...

819. Jeremiah 23:32. The miracles of the false prophets.