Linux and Why Nobody Seems To Care.........

  • Thread starter Thread starter Moshe. Goldfarb
  • Start date Start date
"George Graves" <gmgraves2@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C461AF42000B844BF01846D8@news.comcast.net...
> On Tue, 27 May 2008 12:14:13 -0700, JEDIDIAH wrote
> (in article <slrng3onc5.op1.jedi@nomad.mishnet>):
>
>> On 2008-05-27, John Slade <hhitman86@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> "7" <website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote in message
>>> news:43y_j.9559$DZ6.446@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>>>> Micoshaft fraudster and asstroturfer Moshe. Goldfarb wrote on behalf of
>>>> Half
>>>> Wits from Micoshaft Corporation:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> h
>>>>
>>>> Simply untrue lies printed by micoshaft fraudsters
>>>> on behalf of Micoshaft Corporation marketing department.
>>>>
>>>> There are 3 million embedded Linux gadgets sold PER DAY.
>>>> There are 1 million new Linux desktops installed PER WEEK.
>>>> Thats a lot of people who care.
>>>>
>>>> What about WINDUMMIES?
>>>>
>>>> WINDUMMIES CAN now get the sack for using micoshaft products!
>>>>
>>>> Anyone caught using IE and other strange software to browse
>>>> or log into online services to download viruses, trojans, malware,
>>>> crapware, spyware, botnetware are all sackable.
>>>> It s in many companys' terms and conditions of employment.
>>>>
>>>
>>> This is just plain silly. There is a ton of great software for Windows
>>
>> Like what?
>>
>> Tell me why I might want to DUMP my Linux machne so I can run all
>> those "great Windows apps"?
>>
>> [deletia]
>>
>> ...also, one big problem with Windows is the herd mentality there
>> which greatly undermines the idea of exploiting a diverse ecosystem of
>> independently created software.
>>
>>
>
> You are all living in Microsoft's shadow. People talk all the time about
> Linux innovation and freedom from the constraints of the Microsoft world,
> but
> this is just wishful thinking.
>
> Microsoft has been holding-back the entire computer industry for more than
> a
> decade. We are much further behind in GUI development, and workspace
> development and in productivity development than we should be at this
> point
> because Microsoft holds the reigns of the entire industry. It designs its
> OSes to follow the old application centric paradigm and as long as Windows
> works that way, the rest of the industry CAN NOT change - that includes
> the
> Linux world which COULD change the paradigm, but won't because people are
> used to the way MS does things.
>


And when MS does change the way things work, all they get is complaints.

Computer users are responsible for holding development back because they
want to be able to find everything in the same place as Win 3.0, and still
use the same printer, scanner etc that they had way back when..

--
Mike Hall - MVP
How to construct a good post..
http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=newswhelp&style=toc
Mike's Window - My Blog..
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx
 
Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
> "George Graves" <gmgraves2@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:0001HW.C461AF42000B844BF01846D8@news.comcast.net...
>> On Tue, 27 May 2008 12:14:13 -0700, JEDIDIAH wrote
>> (in article <slrng3onc5.op1.jedi@nomad.mishnet>):
>>
>>> On 2008-05-27, John Slade <hhitman86@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "7" <website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:43y_j.9559$DZ6.446@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>>>>> Micoshaft fraudster and asstroturfer Moshe. Goldfarb wrote on
>>>>> behalf of
>>>>> Half
>>>>> Wits from Micoshaft Corporation:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> h
>>>>>
>>>>> Simply untrue lies printed by micoshaft fraudsters
>>>>> on behalf of Micoshaft Corporation marketing department.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are 3 million embedded Linux gadgets sold PER DAY.
>>>>> There are 1 million new Linux desktops installed PER WEEK.
>>>>> Thats a lot of people who care.
>>>>>
>>>>> What about WINDUMMIES?
>>>>>
>>>>> WINDUMMIES CAN now get the sack for using micoshaft products!
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone caught using IE and other strange software to browse
>>>>> or log into online services to download viruses, trojans, malware,
>>>>> crapware, spyware, botnetware are all sackable.
>>>>> It s in many companys' terms and conditions of employment.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is just plain silly. There is a ton of great software for Windows
>>>
>>> Like what?
>>>
>>> Tell me why I might want to DUMP my Linux machne so I can run all
>>> those "great Windows apps"?
>>>
>>> [deletia]
>>>
>>> ...also, one big problem with Windows is the herd mentality there
>>> which greatly undermines the idea of exploiting a diverse ecosystem of
>>> independently created software.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> You are all living in Microsoft's shadow. People talk all the time about
>> Linux innovation and freedom from the constraints of the Microsoft
>> world, but
>> this is just wishful thinking.
>>
>> Microsoft has been holding-back the entire computer industry for more
>> than a
>> decade. We are much further behind in GUI development, and workspace
>> development and in productivity development than we should be at this
>> point
>> because Microsoft holds the reigns of the entire industry. It designs its
>> OSes to follow the old application centric paradigm and as long as
>> Windows
>> works that way, the rest of the industry CAN NOT change - that
>> includes the
>> Linux world which COULD change the paradigm, but won't because people are
>> used to the way MS does things.
>>
>
>
> And when MS does change the way things work, all they get is complaints.
>
> Computer users are responsible for holding development back because
> they want to be able to find everything in the same place as Win 3.0,
> and still use the same printer, scanner etc that they had way back when..
>

Most computer users nowadays never used 98, much less 3.0.

Alias
 
In article <e6gKpHDwIHA.5124@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>,
Mike Hall - MVP <mikehall@remove_mvps.com> wrote:
>
>Computer users are responsible for holding development back because they
>want to be able to find everything in the same place as Win 3.0, and still

I dont' agree that users object to any change. They do object
to pointless change. For example, the way Windows Explorer moves from
sub-menu to sub-menu with each Windows version, or the gratuitous changes
to the Office interface in 2007.

Anyone use Legato (now Veritas) Networker? One of the great things
about this program was that the user interface changed very little between
versions, so you could sit down at any Legato console and work. Then all
of a sudden in 7.0 they completely eliminated the traditional interface
in favor of some complicated Java monstrosity that only runs properly on
certain platforms. Bah.
 
"the wharf rat" <wrat@panix.com> wrote in message
news:g1hqq4$ck8$1@reader2.panix.com...
> In article <e6gKpHDwIHA.5124@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>,
> Mike Hall - MVP <mikehall@remove_mvps.com> wrote:
>>
>>Computer users are responsible for holding development back because they
>>want to be able to find everything in the same place as Win 3.0, and still
>
> I dont' agree that users object to any change. They do object
> to pointless change. For example, the way Windows Explorer moves from
> sub-menu to sub-menu with each Windows version, or the gratuitous changes
> to the Office interface in 2007.
>
> Anyone use Legato (now Veritas) Networker? One of the great things
> about this program was that the user interface changed very little between
> versions, so you could sit down at any Legato console and work. Then all
> of a sudden in 7.0 they completely eliminated the traditional interface
> in favor of some complicated Java monstrosity that only runs properly on
> certain platforms. Bah.
>
>


I take it that you don't like the Office 'ribbon'. Well, I guess that it
doesn't suit all tastes, but I get along with it ok..

If you look at it as a drop down menu laid on its side, where many more
functions are on display instead of being hidden behind spurious headings,
it becomes very functional indeed.

Strangely, some users don't want to see it like that. They want Office 95
style drop down menus, come hell or high water.


--
Mike Hall - MVP
How to construct a good post..
http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=newswhelp&style=toc
Mike's Window - My Blog..
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx
 
In article <u#iZ4uDwIHA.3680@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>,
Mike Hall - MVP <mikehall@remove_mvps.com> wrote:
>
>I take it that you don't like the Office 'ribbon'.

Ever drive a Saab? After a few weeks the whole key-on-the-floor
have to put it in reverse thing makes sense, but it'll drive you nuts for
that first little bit.

Now imagine that every year Toyota moved the ignition switch to a new
place, mixed up the radio controls, and randomly eliminated one of the
dashboard gauges to "simplify the interface". Think anyone would complain?

Why doesnt Dell just ship Dvorak keyboards instead of that
crufty old inefficient qwerty stuff? I mean, who cares how the users
feel, right? They're just holding up progress.


Don't like the ribbon? Ha, ha. I got a free copy of Office 2007
my last semester in grad school. Still haven't installed it. Did all
my work on Linux.

KDE, too, not that gnome crap.
 
"George Graves" <gmgraves2@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C461AF87000B9499F01846D8@news.comcast.net...
> On Tue, 27 May 2008 12:11:39 -0700, JEDIDIAH wrote
> (in article <slrng3on7b.op1.jedi@nomad.mishnet>):
>
>> On 2008-05-27, John Slade <hhitman86@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> "7" <website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote in message
>>> news:l5C_j.9705$DZ6.4072@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>>>> Tim Murray wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 26 May 2008 08:29:52 -0400, 7 wrote:
>>>>>> There are 1 million new Linux desktops installed PER WEEK.
>>>>>
>>>>> No way. Source?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are out of date!
>>>>
>>>> Google is your friend.
>>>>
>>>> Go count all the press releases over the last few months.
>>>>
>>>> There are also 3 million embedded Linux gadgets sold PER DAY.
>>>
>>> You should back up your claim. It would be great if Linux were growing
>>> that fast. Where did you get that data please?
>>
>> It's hard to say. Linux is in a lot of places from phones, to
>> routers,
>> to TV's, to STBs, to mp3 players. It's probably in a lot of places where
>> it's completely invisible.
>>
>> A lot of people use Linux without realizing it.
>
> Embedded and server use is not desktops and therefore sort of irrelevant
> to
> this discussion.

Funny. What do you use for a internet FW/gateway or wireless?

Darn good chance it runs Linux with BusyBox or a BSD. Linksys/Cisco,
Netgear, D-Link?

LOL.
 
"Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@remove_mvps.com> wrote in message
news:e6gKpHDwIHA.5124@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> "George Graves" <gmgraves2@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:0001HW.C461AF42000B844BF01846D8@news.comcast.net...
>> On Tue, 27 May 2008 12:14:13 -0700, JEDIDIAH wrote
>> (in article <slrng3onc5.op1.jedi@nomad.mishnet>):
>>
>>> On 2008-05-27, John Slade <hhitman86@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "7" <website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:43y_j.9559$DZ6.446@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>>>>> Micoshaft fraudster and asstroturfer Moshe. Goldfarb wrote on behalf
>>>>> of
>>>>> Half
>>>>> Wits from Micoshaft Corporation:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> h
>>>>>
>>>>> Simply untrue lies printed by micoshaft fraudsters
>>>>> on behalf of Micoshaft Corporation marketing department.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are 3 million embedded Linux gadgets sold PER DAY.
>>>>> There are 1 million new Linux desktops installed PER WEEK.
>>>>> Thats a lot of people who care.
>>>>>
>>>>> What about WINDUMMIES?
>>>>>
>>>>> WINDUMMIES CAN now get the sack for using micoshaft products!
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone caught using IE and other strange software to browse
>>>>> or log into online services to download viruses, trojans, malware,
>>>>> crapware, spyware, botnetware are all sackable.
>>>>> It s in many companys' terms and conditions of employment.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is just plain silly. There is a ton of great software for Windows
>>>
>>> Like what?
>>>
>>> Tell me why I might want to DUMP my Linux machne so I can run all
>>> those "great Windows apps"?
>>>
>>> [deletia]
>>>
>>> ...also, one big problem with Windows is the herd mentality there
>>> which greatly undermines the idea of exploiting a diverse ecosystem of
>>> independently created software.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> You are all living in Microsoft's shadow. People talk all the time about
>> Linux innovation and freedom from the constraints of the Microsoft world,
>> but
>> this is just wishful thinking.
>>
>> Microsoft has been holding-back the entire computer industry for more
>> than a
>> decade. We are much further behind in GUI development, and workspace
>> development and in productivity development than we should be at this
>> point
>> because Microsoft holds the reigns of the entire industry. It designs its
>> OSes to follow the old application centric paradigm and as long as
>> Windows
>> works that way, the rest of the industry CAN NOT change - that includes
>> the
>> Linux world which COULD change the paradigm, but won't because people are
>> used to the way MS does things.
>
> And when MS does change the way things work, all they get is complaints.

Because they scewed up. Once upon a time, I thought Microsoft actually
screwed up protocols so they would not interoperate.

I have since come to the conclusion they don't know how their own OS is
designed so they don't know how to make it compatible. They really don't.
There was no reason (worth sh1t) given for why Kerberos was not
interoperable with the standard kerberos. Ditto DNS, LDAP, IMAP, POP3, FTP
and even Microsofts own CIFS. Lets face it, Microsoft can't read/understand
a standard let alone write to it.

NETBUI anyone?

MOOXML, another ambigious half done piece of work.

They spend a lot of time relearning and just trying to get it to work. Play
like junior hackers, like a basement job. They are feeling lucky if it
works Windows to Windows thus it is ready to ship.

> Computer users are responsible for holding development back because they
> want to be able to find everything in the same place as Win 3.0, and still
> use the same printer, scanner etc that they had way back when..

Again, because the interfaces are poorly documents, poorly designed and
change with every release. Vendors can't keep up. Heck, Microsoft has
stated a desire to roll the OS over every 3 years....do you recycle your car
every 3 years to the trash heap to keep up?

In the UNIX/Linux world these interfaces do change, but with backward
compatibility in mind, don't change as frequently or dramatically because
they are better thought out to start with. To top it off, the OS uses C in
a way that is relatively portable with well thought out structure. You
might get 6-10 years to change it, or maybe just some minor tweaks along the
way.

MS, it is a major chore. More an more are just catching on.
 
The problem for Linux is, what it wants to be?

You see, both MS Windows and Apple OS X have a very clear vision and
positioning. MS wants to be a mass market product provider for its products
can be used by ALL kinds of people and organizations for almost every
possible purpose. Apple wants to be a niche player (at least for now) so it
ensures the user experience of its products is unique and distinguished.

One may disagree or dislike their vision and positioning, and they do have
their own problems for the matter, but nevertheless, they all work hard
toward their vision and positioning.

So, what Linux wants to be? It was a nice niche product for geeks, but now
it seems want to be a mass market product. But is it a uniform consensus or
just a wish of some advocates?

Let's put in another way, what the following two facts have in common?

(1) Millions of users are using Linux-based devices.

(2) More than 80% of Windows sales (if my memory serves me right) are coming
from system builders.

Ans.: The majority of users buy and use "solutions" whether it's Windows or
Linux, just like they don't build their own houses, cars, and the rest of
consumer and business products.

By the same token, Linux will not be a viable and meaningful alternative
unless the community is willing to pursue and team up with more system
builders to come up solutions for certain segments as an alternative for
Windows solutions. Yes, there are some system builders are doing it now,
notably, Dell is one of the well-known ones. But it is far from enough.

The community (which is a vague term) also needs to work "proactively" with
component vendors for providing drivers and solving compatibility issues,
instead of waiting passively for them to come up solutions. You also need
to help system builders from selecting a proper distro to system integration
to value propositions and all the way to sales and after-sales support, just
like any other serious players are doing. You don't just sit there and wait
for them to work out something for you. What kind of incentives for them to
do so?

Also, one would think that it's an advantage for having so many different
Linux distributions. Think again and consider how the market criticize MS
for having different Vista editions, and that is just a few. Simplify your
selections because users don't appreciate unneeded complexities and they
only want "solutions".

Technology by itself has no use if it cannot help people to solve issues
and/or accomplish tasks with an improved efficiency, so instead of focusing
on the debate on the technical details, the community and advocates would
have a better result and return on thinking and pursuing to provide an
integrated solution for the intended users. By an integrated solution, I
don't mean the operating system which is just a critical component as a car
engine to an automobile the computer for personal use is an example of an
integrated solution and the entire platform for business use is another one.

If you want to join the crowd in the market, you have to adopt how the
market operates because even giants like MS, Intel, Dell, HP, Toyota, and
countless others have to, and that is the only proven way for one to
survive.



"Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote in message
news:tJ1%j.300254$pM4.239786@pd7urf1no...
>
> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@remove_mvps.com> wrote in message
> news:e6gKpHDwIHA.5124@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> "George Graves" <gmgraves2@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:0001HW.C461AF42000B844BF01846D8@news.comcast.net...
>>> On Tue, 27 May 2008 12:14:13 -0700, JEDIDIAH wrote
>>> (in article <slrng3onc5.op1.jedi@nomad.mishnet>):
>>>
>>>> On 2008-05-27, John Slade <hhitman86@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "7" <website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:43y_j.9559$DZ6.446@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>>>>>> Micoshaft fraudster and asstroturfer Moshe. Goldfarb wrote on behalf
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> Half
>>>>>> Wits from Micoshaft Corporation:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> h
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Simply untrue lies printed by micoshaft fraudsters
>>>>>> on behalf of Micoshaft Corporation marketing department.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are 3 million embedded Linux gadgets sold PER DAY.
>>>>>> There are 1 million new Linux desktops installed PER WEEK.
>>>>>> Thats a lot of people who care.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What about WINDUMMIES?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> WINDUMMIES CAN now get the sack for using micoshaft products!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone caught using IE and other strange software to browse
>>>>>> or log into online services to download viruses, trojans, malware,
>>>>>> crapware, spyware, botnetware are all sackable.
>>>>>> It s in many companys' terms and conditions of employment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This is just plain silly. There is a ton of great software for Windows
>>>>
>>>> Like what?
>>>>
>>>> Tell me why I might want to DUMP my Linux machne so I can run all
>>>> those "great Windows apps"?
>>>>
>>>> [deletia]
>>>>
>>>> ...also, one big problem with Windows is the herd mentality there
>>>> which greatly undermines the idea of exploiting a diverse ecosystem of
>>>> independently created software.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> You are all living in Microsoft's shadow. People talk all the time about
>>> Linux innovation and freedom from the constraints of the Microsoft
>>> world, but
>>> this is just wishful thinking.
>>>
>>> Microsoft has been holding-back the entire computer industry for more
>>> than a
>>> decade. We are much further behind in GUI development, and workspace
>>> development and in productivity development than we should be at this
>>> point
>>> because Microsoft holds the reigns of the entire industry. It designs
>>> its
>>> OSes to follow the old application centric paradigm and as long as
>>> Windows
>>> works that way, the rest of the industry CAN NOT change - that includes
>>> the
>>> Linux world which COULD change the paradigm, but won't because people
>>> are
>>> used to the way MS does things.
>>
>> And when MS does change the way things work, all they get is complaints.
>
> Because they scewed up. Once upon a time, I thought Microsoft actually
> screwed up protocols so they would not interoperate.
>
> I have since come to the conclusion they don't know how their own OS is
> designed so they don't know how to make it compatible. They really don't.
> There was no reason (worth sh1t) given for why Kerberos was not
> interoperable with the standard kerberos. Ditto DNS, LDAP, IMAP, POP3,
> FTP and even Microsofts own CIFS. Lets face it, Microsoft can't
> read/understand a standard let alone write to it.
>
> NETBUI anyone?
>
> MOOXML, another ambigious half done piece of work.
>
> They spend a lot of time relearning and just trying to get it to work.
> Play like junior hackers, like a basement job. They are feeling lucky if
> it works Windows to Windows thus it is ready to ship.
>
>> Computer users are responsible for holding development back because they
>> want to be able to find everything in the same place as Win 3.0, and
>> still use the same printer, scanner etc that they had way back when..
>
> Again, because the interfaces are poorly documents, poorly designed and
> change with every release. Vendors can't keep up. Heck, Microsoft has
> stated a desire to roll the OS over every 3 years....do you recycle your
> car every 3 years to the trash heap to keep up?
>
> In the UNIX/Linux world these interfaces do change, but with backward
> compatibility in mind, don't change as frequently or dramatically because
> they are better thought out to start with. To top it off, the OS uses C
> in a way that is relatively portable with well thought out structure. You
> might get 6-10 years to change it, or maybe just some minor tweaks along
> the way.
>
> MS, it is a major chore. More an more are just catching on.
>
>
>
>
>
 
George Graves wrote:

> On Tue, 27 May 2008 12:11:39 -0700, JEDIDIAH wrote
> (in article <slrng3on7b.op1.jedi@nomad.mishnet>):
>
>> On 2008-05-27, John Slade <hhitman86@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> "7" <website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote in message
>>> news:l5C_j.9705$DZ6.4072@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>>>> Tim Murray wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 26 May 2008 08:29:52 -0400, 7 wrote:
>>>>>> There are 1 million new Linux desktops installed PER WEEK.
>>>>>
>>>>> No way. Source?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are out of date!
>>>>
>>>> Google is your friend.
>>>>
>>>> Go count all the press releases over the last few months.
>>>>
>>>> There are also 3 million embedded Linux gadgets sold PER DAY.
>>>
>>> You should back up your claim. It would be great if Linux were growing
>>> that fast. Where did you get that data please?
>>
>> It's hard to say. Linux is in a lot of places from phones, to
>> routers,
>> to TV's, to STBs, to mp3 players. It's probably in a lot of places where
>> it's completely invisible.
>>
>> A lot of people use Linux without realizing it.
>
> Embedded and server use is not desktops and therefore sort of irrelevant
> to this discussion.


It is YOUR claims thar are irrelevant to this discussion
while the OP is a complete micoshaft sponsored lying asstroturfer.

Linux advocacy is about the WHOLE Linux thing.
That is 3 million embedded Linux gadgets sold PER DAY, the millions of Linux
servers, most of the world's supercomputers, and 1 million Linux desktop
installs per week.

Linux is free to copy, modify the source code and distribute
to heart's content.

http://www.livecdlist.com
http://www.distrowatch.com
 
7 wrote:

> George Graves wrote:
>
>
>>On Tue, 27 May 2008 12:11:39 -0700, JEDIDIAH wrote
>>(in article <slrng3on7b.op1.jedi@nomad.mishnet>):
>>
>>
>>>On 2008-05-27, John Slade <hhitman86@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"7" <website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:l5C_j.9705$DZ6.4072@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>>>>
>>>>>Tim Murray wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Mon, 26 May 2008 08:29:52 -0400, 7 wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>There are 1 million new Linux desktops installed PER WEEK.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>No way. Source?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>You are out of date!
>>>>>
>>>>>Google is your friend.
>>>>>
>>>>>Go count all the press releases over the last few months.
>>>>>
>>>>>There are also 3 million embedded Linux gadgets sold PER DAY.
>>>>
>>>>You should back up your claim. It would be great if Linux were growing
>>>>that fast. Where did you get that data please?
>>>
>>> It's hard to say. Linux is in a lot of places from phones, to
>>> routers,
>>>to TV's, to STBs, to mp3 players. It's probably in a lot of places where
>>>it's completely invisible.
>>>
>>> A lot of people use Linux without realizing it.
>>
>>Embedded and server use is not desktops and therefore sort of irrelevant
>>to this discussion.
>
>
>
> It is YOUR claims thar are irrelevant to this discussion
> while the OP is a complete micoshaft sponsored lying asstroturfer.
>
> Linux advocacy is about the WHOLE Linux thing.
> That is 3 million embedded Linux gadgets sold PER DAY, the millions of Linux
> servers, most of the world's supercomputers, and 1 million Linux desktop
> installs per week.
>
> Linux is free to copy, modify the source code and distribute
> to heart's content.
>
> http://www.livecdlist.com
> http://www.distrowatch.com
>
You're on drugs or drunk or both right?
Being delusional is part of your life style right?
Frank
 
On Wed, 28 May 2008 12:32:55 -0700, 7 wrote
(in article <Hri%j.10837$DZ6.5371@text.news.virginmedia.com>):

> George Graves wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 27 May 2008 12:11:39 -0700, JEDIDIAH wrote
>> (in article <slrng3on7b.op1.jedi@nomad.mishnet>):
>>
>>> On 2008-05-27, John Slade <hhitman86@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "7" <website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:l5C_j.9705$DZ6.4072@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>>>>> Tim Murray wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 26 May 2008 08:29:52 -0400, 7 wrote:
>>>>>>> There are 1 million new Linux desktops installed PER WEEK.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No way. Source?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You are out of date!
>>>>>
>>>>> Google is your friend.
>>>>>
>>>>> Go count all the press releases over the last few months.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are also 3 million embedded Linux gadgets sold PER DAY.
>>>>
>>>> You should back up your claim. It would be great if Linux were growing
>>>> that fast. Where did you get that data please?
>>>
>>> It's hard to say. Linux is in a lot of places from phones, to
>>> routers,
>>> to TV's, to STBs, to mp3 players. It's probably in a lot of places where
>>> it's completely invisible.
>>>
>>> A lot of people use Linux without realizing it.
>>
>> Embedded and server use is not desktops and therefore sort of irrelevant
>> to this discussion.
>
>
> It is YOUR claims thar are irrelevant to this discussion
> while the OP is a complete micoshaft sponsored lying asstroturfer.

They are irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. The end user doesn't care what's
powering his PDA, Cellphone, digital camera, automobile or set-top cable TV
box. He just cares what features it has and that it works. There's no
advocacy involved and if you guys are using embedded systems to bolster your
numbers, then you're being dishonest as far as I see it. Embedded systems are
NOT a consumer choice and never will be.
 
On 2008-05-28, George Graves <gmgraves2@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 28 May 2008 12:32:55 -0700, 7 wrote
> (in article <Hri%j.10837$DZ6.5371@text.news.virginmedia.com>):
>
>> George Graves wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 27 May 2008 12:11:39 -0700, JEDIDIAH wrote
>>> (in article <slrng3on7b.op1.jedi@nomad.mishnet>):
>>>
>>>> On 2008-05-27, John Slade <hhitman86@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "7" <website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:l5C_j.9705$DZ6.4072@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>>>>>> Tim Murray wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 26 May 2008 08:29:52 -0400, 7 wrote:
>>>>>>>> There are 1 million new Linux desktops installed PER WEEK.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No way. Source?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are out of date!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Google is your friend.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Go count all the press releases over the last few months.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are also 3 million embedded Linux gadgets sold PER DAY.
>>>>>
>>>>> You should back up your claim. It would be great if Linux were growing
>>>>> that fast. Where did you get that data please?
>>>>
>>>> It's hard to say. Linux is in a lot of places from phones, to
>>>> routers,
>>>> to TV's, to STBs, to mp3 players. It's probably in a lot of places where
>>>> it's completely invisible.
>>>>
>>>> A lot of people use Linux without realizing it.
>>>
>>> Embedded and server use is not desktops and therefore sort of irrelevant
>>> to this discussion.
>>
>>
>> It is YOUR claims thar are irrelevant to this discussion
>> while the OP is a complete micoshaft sponsored lying asstroturfer.
>
> They are irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. The end user doesn't care what's
> powering his PDA, Cellphone, digital camera, automobile or set-top cable TV

They should be. Like anything else, those choices will determine whether
or not the product is useful or just an annoying pile of crap.

Whether or not your Cable Set Top box is a Linux powered Tivo or not
is VERY relevant. Someone else here also likes to whine how important
the iPhone is because of this.

> box. He just cares what features it has and that it works. There's no
> advocacy involved and if you guys are using embedded systems to bolster your
> numbers, then you're being dishonest as far as I see it. Embedded systems are
> NOT a consumer choice and never will be.
>

Why should we restrict advocacy to mere "consumers"?

--

The social cost of suing/prosecuting individuals |||
for non-commercial copyright infringement far outweighs / | \
the social value of copyright to begin with.



Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com
 
In article <Ggl%j.173142$rd2.60361@pd7urf3no>,
"Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote:
> Good for you. But you didn't answer. Do you have a Linksys/Netgear/D-Link
> or other WAP running Linux? How about the cell phone? What about the web
> cam?

Who cares? I have a Linksys router with Linux. A friend of mine has
the same model of Linksys router, without Linux. However, they operate
identically, and the only way I know mine has Linux and his does not is
that we looked up the serial numbers on a site that tells you which ones
have Linux and which ones don't. They have the same functionality, and
the same web interface.

That Linux is used in some routers is of no relevance whatsoever when it
comes to choosing a desktop system.

--
--Tim Smith
 
In article <0001HW.C4630BB6000E1607F01846D8@news.comcast.net>,
George Graves <gmgraves2@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>OS is installed in ROM by the manufacturer (in this case, Apple), I.E. its
>embedded. You don't get to choose it just like you can't choose the OS
>embedded in your car, your cell phone, or your cable TV box. It's just THERE.

Sort of like the OS that comes in your new Gateway or your new
Dell, huh?

1/2 :-)

>Jeeze, you're stupid.


Well, ya know, the desktop might be the only part of the world you
ever see but without all those Unix servers quietly working away in the
background you wouldn't need Google to search the web because it would be
*real* *small*
 
On May 28, 4:23 pm, w...@panix.com (the wharf rat) wrote:
> In article <0001HW.C4630BB6000E1607F0184...@news.comcast.net>,
> George Graves  <gmgrav...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> >OS is installed in ROM by the manufacturer (in this case, Apple), I.E. its
> >embedded. You don't get to choose it just like you can't choose the OS
> >embedded in your car, your cell phone, or your cable TV box. It's just THERE.
>
>         Sort of like the OS that comes in your new Gateway or your new
> Dell, huh?
>
>         1/2 :-)
>
> >Jeeze, you're stupid.
>
>         Well, ya know, the desktop might be the only part of the world you
> ever see but without all those Unix servers quietly working away in the
> background you wouldn't need Google to search the web because it would be
> *real* *small*

No. You have it wrong. You are stupid.
 
"George Graves" <gmgraves2@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C4630CD2000E5894F01846D8@news.comcast.net...
> On Wed, 28 May 2008 12:32:55 -0700, 7 wrote
> (in article <Hri%j.10837$DZ6.5371@text.news.virginmedia.com>):
>
>> George Graves wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 27 May 2008 12:11:39 -0700, JEDIDIAH wrote
>>> (in article <slrng3on7b.op1.jedi@nomad.mishnet>):
>>>
>>>> On 2008-05-27, John Slade <hhitman86@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "7" <website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:l5C_j.9705$DZ6.4072@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>>>>>> Tim Murray wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 26 May 2008 08:29:52 -0400, 7 wrote:
>>>>>>>> There are 1 million new Linux desktops installed PER WEEK.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No way. Source?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are out of date!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Google is your friend.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Go count all the press releases over the last few months.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are also 3 million embedded Linux gadgets sold PER DAY.
>>>>>
>>>>> You should back up your claim. It would be great if Linux were growing
>>>>> that fast. Where did you get that data please?
>>>>
>>>> It's hard to say. Linux is in a lot of places from phones, to
>>>> routers,
>>>> to TV's, to STBs, to mp3 players. It's probably in a lot of places
>>>> where
>>>> it's completely invisible.
>>>>
>>>> A lot of people use Linux without realizing it.
>>>
>>> Embedded and server use is not desktops and therefore sort of irrelevant
>>> to this discussion.
>>
>>
>> It is YOUR claims thar are irrelevant to this discussion
>> while the OP is a complete micoshaft sponsored lying asstroturfer.
>
> They are irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. The end user doesn't care
> what's
> powering his PDA, Cellphone, digital camera, automobile or set-top cable
> TV
> box. He just cares what features it has and that it works. There's no
> advocacy involved and if you guys are using embedded systems to bolster
> your
> numbers, then you're being dishonest as far as I see it. Embedded systems
> are
> NOT a consumer choice and never will be.

I laugh at your ignorance.

Embedded low maintenance, low cost and reliable devices ARE what people
want. And Linux rules this roost. Vista isn't going to run on a ultra-low
power portable device like a RIM/*Berry. Dream on.

People will migrate to cost, functionality and value. If the batteries run
down in an hour because Vista wants to defrag "automatically" they are not
going to give a crap. They will pick the model that does the same thing but
lasts 5 times longer and costs less than Vista itself. In this realm of
appliance devices, Microsoft is too unreliable, fat/bloated and over priced.
I am not going to buy a $200 cell phone and load $400 Ultimate anything.

Microsofts business model is decaying. And if it is anything like the
mainframe days the following occurs.

-500M desktops say run a MS-OS.
-Market shrinks to 350M as people use other "appliances", prices go up
-Prices goes up 33% as MS does not want to show lower sales, Win98, $98,
Vista U $400+
-Market shrinks to 220M as it costs too much for MS-OS, appliances bloom,
Eee PC
-Prices goes up another 33% as MS does not want to show lower sales

The last one is where we are about to be.

Most mainframers in the end dumped mainframes not because of the hardware,
but with fewer customers for a given software packages the support price
increases drove them off of mainframes. As vendors with a reduced user base
raised costs to the users to maintain viability.

This WILL happen again. MS is over priced, over valued and quite a bit more
susceptible to a switch change by consumer demand than was
IBM/Sperry/Amdahl. Happened with IBM, Apple (IIe), Digital, Tandy-RS and
others. History is just repeating itself and Microsoft is on the falling
edge this time.

Win7 will not be cheap. It is in a increasing saturated market and more
price competitive than ever.

Ballmer may throw some more chairs, he breaks windows nicely. I wouldn't
invest in MSFT unless I was made VP of Common Sense at MSFT with a big
stick.
 
"JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message

> Why should we restrict advocacy to mere "consumers"?

We are not.
 
On Wed, 28 May 2008 16:37:06 -0700, Canuck57 wrote
(in article <C0m%j.174853$Cj7.45767@pd7urf2no>):

>
> "George Graves" <gmgraves2@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:0001HW.C4630CD2000E5894F01846D8@news.comcast.net...
>> On Wed, 28 May 2008 12:32:55 -0700, 7 wrote
>> (in article <Hri%j.10837$DZ6.5371@text.news.virginmedia.com>):
>>
>>> George Graves wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 27 May 2008 12:11:39 -0700, JEDIDIAH wrote
>>>> (in article <slrng3on7b.op1.jedi@nomad.mishnet>):
>>>>
>>>>> On 2008-05-27, John Slade <hhitman86@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "7" <website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:l5C_j.9705$DZ6.4072@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>>>>>>> Tim Murray wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 26 May 2008 08:29:52 -0400, 7 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> There are 1 million new Linux desktops installed PER WEEK.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No way. Source?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are out of date!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Google is your friend.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Go count all the press releases over the last few months.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are also 3 million embedded Linux gadgets sold PER DAY.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You should back up your claim. It would be great if Linux were growing
>>>>>> that fast. Where did you get that data please?
>>>>>
>>>>> It's hard to say. Linux is in a lot of places from phones, to
>>>>> routers,
>>>>> to TV's, to STBs, to mp3 players. It's probably in a lot of places
>>>>> where
>>>>> it's completely invisible.
>>>>>
>>>>> A lot of people use Linux without realizing it.
>>>>
>>>> Embedded and server use is not desktops and therefore sort of irrelevant
>>>> to this discussion.
>>>
>>>
>>> It is YOUR claims thar are irrelevant to this discussion
>>> while the OP is a complete micoshaft sponsored lying asstroturfer.
>>
>> They are irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. The end user doesn't care
>> what's
>> powering his PDA, Cellphone, digital camera, automobile or set-top cable
>> TV
>> box. He just cares what features it has and that it works. There's no
>> advocacy involved and if you guys are using embedded systems to bolster
>> your
>> numbers, then you're being dishonest as far as I see it. Embedded systems
>> are
>> NOT a consumer choice and never will be.
>
> I laugh at your ignorance.
>
> Embedded low maintenance, low cost and reliable devices ARE what people
> want. And Linux rules this roost. Vista isn't going to run on a ultra-low
> power portable device like a RIM/*Berry. Dream on.

Low cost and reliable devices ARE what people want. I agree. But nobody cares
HOW the manufacturers achieve that goal any more than they care, for
instance, what microcontroller runs the engine management system in their
car.

> People will migrate to cost, functionality and value. If the batteries run
> down in an hour because Vista wants to defrag "automatically" they are not
> going to give a crap. They will pick the model that does the same thing but
> lasts 5 times longer and costs less than Vista itself. In this realm of
> appliance devices, Microsoft is too unreliable, fat/bloated and over priced.
> I am not going to buy a $200 cell phone and load $400 Ultimate anything.

The still don't care what's under the hood. You continue to miss the
essential point here. If Linux is the cheapest embedded system and the system
that will lower costs, fine, but the consumer doesn't care about that. They
care only about the results and most won't know whether the appliance in
question is running embedded Linux or some proprietary embedded OS and most
importantly, they won't care.
>
> Microsofts business model is decaying. And if it is anything like the
> mainframe days the following occurs.
>
> -500M desktops say run a MS-OS.
> -Market shrinks to 350M as people use other "appliances", prices go up
> -Prices goes up 33% as MS does not want to show lower sales, Win98, $98,
> Vista U $400+
> -Market shrinks to 220M as it costs too much for MS-OS, appliances bloom,
> Eee PC
> -Prices goes up another 33% as MS does not want to show lower sales
>
> The last one is where we are about to be.
>
> Most mainframers in the end dumped mainframes not because of the hardware,
> but with fewer customers for a given software packages the support price
> increases drove them off of mainframes. As vendors with a reduced user base
> raised costs to the users to maintain viability.
>
> This WILL happen again. MS is over priced, over valued and quite a bit more
> susceptible to a switch change by consumer demand than was
> IBM/Sperry/Amdahl. Happened with IBM, Apple (IIe), Digital, Tandy-RS and
> others. History is just repeating itself and Microsoft is on the falling
> edge this time.
>
> Win7 will not be cheap. It is in a increasing saturated market and more
> price competitive than ever.
>
> Ballmer may throw some more chairs, he breaks windows nicely. I wouldn't
> invest in MSFT unless I was made VP of Common Sense at MSFT with a big
> stick.

I gotta be honest with you. I don't care about Microsoft either.
 
George Graves wrote:

> On Wed, 28 May 2008 12:32:55 -0700, 7 wrote
> (in article <Hri%j.10837$DZ6.5371@text.news.virginmedia.com>):
>
>> George Graves wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 27 May 2008 12:11:39 -0700, JEDIDIAH wrote
>>> (in article <slrng3on7b.op1.jedi@nomad.mishnet>):
>>>
>>>> On 2008-05-27, John Slade <hhitman86@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "7" <website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:l5C_j.9705$DZ6.4072@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>>>>>> Tim Murray wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 26 May 2008 08:29:52 -0400, 7 wrote:
>>>>>>>> There are 1 million new Linux desktops installed PER WEEK.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No way. Source?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are out of date!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Google is your friend.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Go count all the press releases over the last few months.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are also 3 million embedded Linux gadgets sold PER DAY.
>>>>>
>>>>> You should back up your claim. It would be great if Linux were growing
>>>>> that fast. Where did you get that data please?
>>>>
>>>> It's hard to say. Linux is in a lot of places from phones, to
>>>> routers,
>>>> to TV's, to STBs, to mp3 players. It's probably in a lot of places
>>>> where it's completely invisible.
>>>>
>>>> A lot of people use Linux without realizing it.
>>>
>>> Embedded and server use is not desktops and therefore sort of irrelevant
>>> to this discussion.
>>
>>
>> It is YOUR claims thar are irrelevant to this discussion
>> while the OP is a complete micoshaft sponsored lying asstroturfer.
>
> They are irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.

WTF?
And who might you be precious?

Its pretty clear you must be irrelevant to Linux Advocacy
as far as Linux Advocacy is concerned!

Linux advocacy is about the WHOLE Linux thing.
That is 3 million embedded Linux gadgets sold PER DAY, the millions of Linux
servers, most of the world's supercomputers, and 1 million Linux desktop
installs per week.

Linux is free to copy, modify the source code and distribute
to heart's content.

http://www.livecdlist.com
http://www.distrowatch.com
 
On Wed, 28 May 2008 21:25:12 -0400, 7 wrote:
> That is 3 million embedded Linux gadgets sold PER DAY, the millions of
> Linux servers, most of the world's supercomputers, and 1 million Linux
> desktop installs per week.

You say that something like 80 times a day (that's hyperbole) but I must have
missed that post where you back it up.
 

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