Dell "Back To School Catalog Aug edition" Where is Linux????????

  • Thread starter Thread starter Moshe Goldfarb.
  • Start date Start date
M

Moshe Goldfarb.

I just received the August version of the Dell "Back to School" catalog, a
big time of year for Dell BTW and not a mention of Linux.
No where.

Oh yea, for $89.00 you can get the "Student Pack-Microsoft Office Home"
which includes:

Word 2007
Excel 2007
OneNote 2007
PowerPoint 2007

So where is OpenOffice?

Why does every page have "Dell Recommends Microsoft Vista" splattered on
it?

Students are typically cash short so wouldn't Linux be a better deal?

At least until they got on campus and they noticed all the other students
were using Windows or Mac....

Dell knows this and that is why Linux is a non contender during Dell's
biggest sales time of the year, except maybe for Christmas.

Oh yea, you can look at this one online!

Happy hunting!

http://www.dell.com/aug2

--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
 
Re: Dell "Back To School Catalog Aug edition" Where isLinux????????

On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 23:39:52 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:

> I just received the August version of the Dell "Back to School" catalog,
> a big time of year for Dell BTW and not a mention of Linux. No where.
>
> Oh yea, for $89.00 you can get the "Student Pack-Microsoft Office Home"
> which includes:
>
> Word 2007
> Excel 2007
> OneNote 2007
> PowerPoint 2007
>
> So where is OpenOffice?

<http://http://www.openoffice.org/>

Why do you care?

>
> Why does every page have "Dell Recommends Microsoft Vista" splattered on
> it?

Contract with Microsoft. Why do you think a system with Windows and
Office can cost the same or less than a system with $0 software?

>
> Students are typically cash short so wouldn't Linux be a better deal?

For many of them, yes.

>
> At least until they got on campus and they noticed all the other
> students were using Windows or Mac....

Herb mentality.

>
> Dell knows this and that is why Linux is a non contender during Dell's
> biggest sales time of the year, except maybe for Christmas.

You're a lair.

>
> Oh yea, you can look at this one online!
>
> Happy hunting!
>
> http://www.dell.com/aug2

I don't need to hunt. I have PCLinuxOS installed. And OpenOffice.

--
Rick
 
"Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_n_straw@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:fdgtn1sapfan$.gft9fp7dvxkm$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:55:18 -0500, Rick wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 23:39:52 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
>>
>>> I just received the August version of the Dell "Back to School" catalog,
>>> a big time of year for Dell BTW and not a mention of Linux. No where.
>>>
>>> Oh yea, for $89.00 you can get the "Student Pack-Microsoft Office Home"
>>> which includes:
>>>
>>> Word 2007
>>> Excel 2007
>>> OneNote 2007
>>> PowerPoint 2007
>>>
>>> So where is OpenOffice?
>>
>> <http://http://www.openoffice.org/>
>>
>> Why do you care?
>
> I don't.
> i was just asking why it's not offered as an alternative.
>

Because 99.9% of the customer base doesn't know what Linux is and even less
would want to try it.

Because much of the course work that calls for (or requires) computer work
is presented in ways specific to MS software (in the same way it used to be
presented in a Mac OSx way.)

Because people can turn on a MS machine and have it work without confusing
scripts and complicated installation of inexpensive hardware.



As much as I agree with the "Down with The Man" and indie work and anarchy,
sometimes I (like the majority of people) want something that works without
needing to be a zealot about it. And with the amout of time it takes to
*do* stuff, needing an equal amount of time to decypher the o/s just doesn't
work.

Ed
 
Re: Dell "Back To School Catalog Aug edition" Where isLinux????????

On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 00:27:50 -0400, Ed Edelenbos wrote:

> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_n_straw@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:fdgtn1sapfan$.gft9fp7dvxkm$.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:55:18 -0500, Rick wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 23:39:52 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
>>>
>>>> I just received the August version of the Dell "Back to School"
>>>> catalog, a big time of year for Dell BTW and not a mention of Linux.
>>>> No where.
>>>>
>>>> Oh yea, for $89.00 you can get the "Student Pack-Microsoft Office
>>>> Home" which includes:
>>>>
>>>> Word 2007
>>>> Excel 2007
>>>> OneNote 2007
>>>> PowerPoint 2007
>>>>
>>>> So where is OpenOffice?
>>>
>>> <http://http://www.openoffice.org/>
>>>
>>> Why do you care?
>>
>> I don't.
>> i was just asking why it's not offered as an alternative.
>>
>>
> Because 99.9% of the customer base doesn't know what Linux is and even
> less would want to try it.

OK.. that seems realistic.

>
> Because much of the course work that calls for (or requires) computer
> work is presented in ways specific to MS software (in the same way it
> used to be presented in a Mac OSx way.)

OK.. that seems realistic.

>
> Because people can turn on a MS machine and have it work without
> confusing scripts and complicated installation of inexpensive hardware.

People can turn on Linux based machines and have them work without
confusing scripts and complicated installation of inexpensive hardware.

>
>
>
> As much as I agree with the "Down with The Man" and indie work and
> anarchy, sometimes I (like the majority of people) want something that
> works without needing to be a zealot about it. And with the amout of
> time it takes to *do* stuff, needing an equal amount of time to decypher
> the o/s just doesn't work.

How about deciphering this last paragraph? Thanks.


--
Rick
 
Ed Edelenbos schreef:
> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_n_straw@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:fdgtn1sapfan$.gft9fp7dvxkm$.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:55:18 -0500, Rick wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 23:39:52 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
>>>
>>>> I just received the August version of the Dell "Back to School" catalog,
>>>> a big time of year for Dell BTW and not a mention of Linux. No where.
>>>>
>>>> Oh yea, for $89.00 you can get the "Student Pack-Microsoft Office Home"
>>>> which includes:
>>>>
>>>> Word 2007
>>>> Excel 2007
>>>> OneNote 2007
>>>> PowerPoint 2007
>>>>
>>>> So where is OpenOffice?
>>> <http://http://www.openoffice.org/>
>>>
>>> Why do you care?
>> I don't.
>> i was just asking why it's not offered as an alternative.
>>
>
> Because 99.9% of the customer base doesn't know what Linux is and even less
> would want to try it.

We are talking about schools, places you go to learn.
For this purpose Open Source is per definition better suited.
>
> Because much of the course work that calls for (or requires) computer work
> is presented in ways specific to MS software (in the same way it used to be
> presented in a Mac OSx way.)

Very true (and short sighted from the suppliers).
>
> Because people can turn on a MS machine and have it work without confusing
> scripts and complicated installation of inexpensive hardware.

Then why does it on the same computer take at least 4 hrs to install
Vista or XP but less than an hour for one of the 'Buntu's.
And the first one is then still without basic applications...

Even though OP was talking about pre installed Linux where installation
is not an issue regarding the OS Windows always looses on maintenance.
The millions of Owned MS systems show every day in a very dramatic way
that keeping anti virus and spy ware definitions up to date and fixing
the slip ups of it requires continuous and not trivial attention.

>
>
>
> As much as I agree with the "Down with The Man" and indie work and anarchy,
> sometimes I (like the majority of people) want something that works without
> needing to be a zealot about it. And with the amout of time it takes to
> *do* stuff, needing an equal amount of time to decypher the o/s just doesn't
> work.
>
You must have had a bad experience with Linux, I regularly have them
doing Windows maintenance.
> Ed
>
>
 
* Ed Edelenbos peremptorily fired off this memo:

Ubuntu newsgroup snipped.

> Because people can turn on a MS machine and have it work without confusing
> scripts and complicated installation of inexpensive hardware.

Pfffft. Is that old chestnut still being purveyed?

> As much as I agree with the "Down with The Man" and indie work and anarchy,
> sometimes I (like the majority of people) want something that works without
> needing to be a zealot about it. And with the amout of time it takes to
> *do* stuff, needing an equal amount of time to decypher the o/s just doesn't
> work.

Why not? People have to "decipher" Windows or Mac, too. They
"decipher" their cell phones. They "decipher" anything new they
encounter. Surely they can "decipher" a GUI that is a lot like all the
other GUIs.

Have you "deciphered" the art of shoe-laces?

--
No solicitors.
 
On 2008-08-06, Ed Edelenbos <eded@spookeasy.net> wrote:
>
> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_n_straw@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:fdgtn1sapfan$.gft9fp7dvxkm$.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:55:18 -0500, Rick wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 23:39:52 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
>>>
>>>> I just received the August version of the Dell "Back to School" catalog,
>>>> a big time of year for Dell BTW and not a mention of Linux. No where.
>>>>
>>>> Oh yea, for $89.00 you can get the "Student Pack-Microsoft Office Home"
>>>> which includes:
>>>>
>>>> Word 2007
>>>> Excel 2007
>>>> OneNote 2007
>>>> PowerPoint 2007
>>>>
>>>> So where is OpenOffice?
>>>
>>> <http://http://www.openoffice.org/>
>>>
>>> Why do you care?
>>
>> I don't.
>> i was just asking why it's not offered as an alternative.
>>
>
> Because 99.9% of the customer base doesn't know what Linux is and even less
> would want to try it.
>
> Because much of the course work that calls for (or requires) computer work
> is presented in ways specific to MS software (in the same way it used to be
> presented in a Mac OSx way.)
>
> Because people can turn on a MS machine and have it work without confusing
> scripts and complicated installation of inexpensive hardware.

Not really. They can do very basic things and that's about it.

Stray from that and they are just as lost as if a Commodore 64 was
sitting in front of them. If they don't have the ability to inclination
to get past the "appliance" presented to them it doesn't really matter
what OS they're subjected to.

Ironically, all of the usual FUD directed at Linux would be made moot
by someone like Dell offering a preloaded version to the consumer.

....not that an Ubuntu LiveCD is exactly rocket science to deal with either.

>
>
>
> As much as I agree with the "Down with The Man" and indie work and anarchy,
> sometimes I (like the majority of people) want something that works without
> needing to be a zealot about it. And with the amout of time it takes to
> *do* stuff, needing an equal amount of time to decypher the o/s just doesn't
> work.
>
> Ed
>
>


--
....as if the ability to run Cubase ever made or broke a platform.
|||
/ | \

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
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On Wed, 6 Aug 2008 00:27:50 -0400, Ed Edelenbos wrote:

> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_n_straw@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:fdgtn1sapfan$.gft9fp7dvxkm$.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:55:18 -0500, Rick wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 23:39:52 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
>>>
>>>> I just received the August version of the Dell "Back to School" catalog,
>>>> a big time of year for Dell BTW and not a mention of Linux. No where.
>>>>
>>>> Oh yea, for $89.00 you can get the "Student Pack-Microsoft Office Home"
>>>> which includes:
>>>>
>>>> Word 2007
>>>> Excel 2007
>>>> OneNote 2007
>>>> PowerPoint 2007
>>>>
>>>> So where is OpenOffice?
>>>
>>> <http://http://www.openoffice.org/>
>>>
>>> Why do you care?
>>
>> I don't.
>> i was just asking why it's not offered as an alternative.
>>
>
> Because 99.9% of the customer base doesn't know what Linux is and even less
> would want to try it.
>
> Because much of the course work that calls for (or requires) computer work
> is presented in ways specific to MS software (in the same way it used to be
> presented in a Mac OSx way.)
>
> Because people can turn on a MS machine and have it work without confusing
> scripts and complicated installation of inexpensive hardware.
>
>
>
> As much as I agree with the "Down with The Man" and indie work and anarchy,
> sometimes I (like the majority of people) want something that works without
> needing to be a zealot about it. And with the amout of time it takes to
> *do* stuff, needing an equal amount of time to decypher the o/s just doesn't
> work.
>
> Ed

Basically my point is that a person is in college to learn and be educated
to prepare for the live ahead. Unless they are a computer science student
or something similar, the computer is simply another tool to assist them in
this process.
It should be as transparent as possible which means the student should
follow the University guidelines as to what is acceptable.

Standing on a pulpit, rebelling against "the man" and bucking the trend is
fine but it just creates additional stress for the student.

There is no good reason to be the oddball in the class running Linux.
--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
 
"JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message
news:slrng9jchs.jtv.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
> On 2008-08-06, Ed Edelenbos <eded@spookeasy.net> wrote:
>>
>> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_n_straw@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:fdgtn1sapfan$.gft9fp7dvxkm$.dlg@40tude.net...
>>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:55:18 -0500, Rick wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 23:39:52 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I just received the August version of the Dell "Back to School"
>>>>> catalog,
>>>>> a big time of year for Dell BTW and not a mention of Linux. No where.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh yea, for $89.00 you can get the "Student Pack-Microsoft Office
>>>>> Home"
>>>>> which includes:
>>>>>
>>>>> Word 2007
>>>>> Excel 2007
>>>>> OneNote 2007
>>>>> PowerPoint 2007
>>>>>
>>>>> So where is OpenOffice?
>>>>
>>>> <http://http://www.openoffice.org/>
>>>>
>>>> Why do you care?
>>>
>>> I don't.
>>> i was just asking why it's not offered as an alternative.
>>>
>>
>> Because 99.9% of the customer base doesn't know what Linux is and even
>> less
>> would want to try it.
>>
>> Because much of the course work that calls for (or requires) computer
>> work
>> is presented in ways specific to MS software (in the same way it used to
>> be
>> presented in a Mac OSx way.)
>>
>> Because people can turn on a MS machine and have it work without
>> confusing
>> scripts and complicated installation of inexpensive hardware.
>
> Not really. They can do very basic things and that's about it.
>
> Stray from that and they are just as lost as if a Commodore 64 was
> sitting in front of them. If they don't have the ability to inclination
> to get past the "appliance" presented to them it doesn't really matter
> what OS they're subjected to.
>

So let's recap... it does what they need and overwhelmingly, they are
already used to the interface. And they should change because????

Not everyone wants to be a geek or comp sci. major. Most (by far) just want
an appliance. Get linux to the point where it will work that way and it'll
start to gain acceptance. That and most don't see MS as an evil empire...
they are just a company putting out a product. Quite successfully,
apparently.

Ed
 
"Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_n_straw@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:xax9jowlu6io.qle86a34c7hn$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Wed, 6 Aug 2008 00:27:50 -0400, Ed Edelenbos wrote:
>
>> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_n_straw@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:fdgtn1sapfan$.gft9fp7dvxkm$.dlg@40tude.net...
>>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:55:18 -0500, Rick wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 23:39:52 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I just received the August version of the Dell "Back to School"
>>>>> catalog,
>>>>> a big time of year for Dell BTW and not a mention of Linux. No where.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh yea, for $89.00 you can get the "Student Pack-Microsoft Office
>>>>> Home"
>>>>> which includes:
>>>>>
>>>>> Word 2007
>>>>> Excel 2007
>>>>> OneNote 2007
>>>>> PowerPoint 2007
>>>>>
>>>>> So where is OpenOffice?
>>>>
>>>> <http://http://www.openoffice.org/>
>>>>
>>>> Why do you care?
>>>
>>> I don't.
>>> i was just asking why it's not offered as an alternative.
>>>
>>
>> Because 99.9% of the customer base doesn't know what Linux is and even
>> less
>> would want to try it.
>>
>> Because much of the course work that calls for (or requires) computer
>> work
>> is presented in ways specific to MS software (in the same way it used to
>> be
>> presented in a Mac OSx way.)
>>
>> Because people can turn on a MS machine and have it work without
>> confusing
>> scripts and complicated installation of inexpensive hardware.
>>
>>
>>
>> As much as I agree with the "Down with The Man" and indie work and
>> anarchy,
>> sometimes I (like the majority of people) want something that works
>> without
>> needing to be a zealot about it. And with the amout of time it takes to
>> *do* stuff, needing an equal amount of time to decypher the o/s just
>> doesn't
>> work.
>>
>> Ed
>
> Basically my point is that a person is in college to learn and be educated
> to prepare for the live ahead. Unless they are a computer science student
> or something similar, the computer is simply another tool to assist them
> in
> this process.
> It should be as transparent as possible which means the student should
> follow the University guidelines as to what is acceptable.
>
> Standing on a pulpit, rebelling against "the man" and bucking the trend is
> fine but it just creates additional stress for the student.
>
> There is no good reason to be the oddball in the class running Linux.
> --
> Moshe Goldfarb
> Collector of soaps from around the globe.
> Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
> http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

Which is exactly where my oldest daughter is. She wants out of the eeePC
because it runs Linux. Her peers look over her shoulder and go, "ewww..."
(grin) And, when she tries to work with others, they don't recognize the
interface and they shut down. It probably doesn't help that she had a XP
computer that she got used to for a couple years before we went eee. She's
got a bunch of time "invested" in software that doesn't translate to
anything available for Linux. My younger daughter doesn't care... she has
a word processor, a spreadsheet, and a net browser, and she's happy. The
older daughter will get one of new 10" xp eee's this fall semester.

Ed
 
Re: Dell "Back To School Catalog Aug edition" Where isLinux????????

On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 11:30:40 -0400, Ed Edelenbos wrote:

> "JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message
> news:slrng9jchs.jtv.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
>> On 2008-08-06, Ed Edelenbos <eded@spookeasy.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_n_straw@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:fdgtn1sapfan$.gft9fp7dvxkm$.dlg@40tude.net...
>>>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:55:18 -0500, Rick wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 23:39:52 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I just received the August version of the Dell "Back to School"
>>>>>> catalog,
>>>>>> a big time of year for Dell BTW and not a mention of Linux. No
>>>>>> where.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh yea, for $89.00 you can get the "Student Pack-Microsoft Office
>>>>>> Home"
>>>>>> which includes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Word 2007
>>>>>> Excel 2007
>>>>>> OneNote 2007
>>>>>> PowerPoint 2007
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So where is OpenOffice?
>>>>>
>>>>> <http://http://www.openoffice.org/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Why do you care?
>>>>
>>>> I don't.
>>>> i was just asking why it's not offered as an alternative.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Because 99.9% of the customer base doesn't know what Linux is and even
>>> less
>>> would want to try it.
>>>
>>> Because much of the course work that calls for (or requires) computer
>>> work
>>> is presented in ways specific to MS software (in the same way it used
>>> to be
>>> presented in a Mac OSx way.)
>>>
>>> Because people can turn on a MS machine and have it work without
>>> confusing
>>> scripts and complicated installation of inexpensive hardware.
>>
>> Not really. They can do very basic things and that's about it.
>>
>> Stray from that and they are just as lost as if a Commodore 64 was
>> sitting in front of them. If they don't have the ability to inclination
>> to get past the "appliance" presented to them it doesn't really matter
>> what OS they're subjected to.
>>
>>
> So let's recap... it does what they need and overwhelmingly, they are
> already used to the interface. And they should change because????
>
> Not everyone wants to be a geek or comp sci. major. Most (by far) just
> want an appliance. Get linux to the point where it will work that way
> and it'll start to gain acceptance. That and most don't see MS as an
> evil empire... they are just a company putting out a product. Quite
> successfully, apparently.
>
> Ed

With Linux sytems pre-loaded, and working in an environment of Linux
based systems machines it does work like an appliance. Just as a Windows
based machines needs to be in an environment of Windows based machines to
work like an appliance.

--
Rick
 
Re: Dell "Back To School Catalog Aug edition" Where isLinux????????

On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 11:38:17 -0400, Ed Edelenbos wrote:

> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_n_straw@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:xax9jowlu6io.qle86a34c7hn$.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Wed, 6 Aug 2008 00:27:50 -0400, Ed Edelenbos wrote:
>>
>>> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_n_straw@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:fdgtn1sapfan$.gft9fp7dvxkm$.dlg@40tude.net...
>>>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:55:18 -0500, Rick wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 23:39:52 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I just received the August version of the Dell "Back to School"
>>>>>> catalog,
>>>>>> a big time of year for Dell BTW and not a mention of Linux. No
>>>>>> where.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh yea, for $89.00 you can get the "Student Pack-Microsoft Office
>>>>>> Home"
>>>>>> which includes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Word 2007
>>>>>> Excel 2007
>>>>>> OneNote 2007
>>>>>> PowerPoint 2007
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So where is OpenOffice?
>>>>>
>>>>> <http://http://www.openoffice.org/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Why do you care?
>>>>
>>>> I don't.
>>>> i was just asking why it's not offered as an alternative.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Because 99.9% of the customer base doesn't know what Linux is and even
>>> less
>>> would want to try it.
>>>
>>> Because much of the course work that calls for (or requires) computer
>>> work
>>> is presented in ways specific to MS software (in the same way it used
>>> to be
>>> presented in a Mac OSx way.)
>>>
>>> Because people can turn on a MS machine and have it work without
>>> confusing
>>> scripts and complicated installation of inexpensive hardware.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As much as I agree with the "Down with The Man" and indie work and
>>> anarchy,
>>> sometimes I (like the majority of people) want something that works
>>> without
>>> needing to be a zealot about it. And with the amout of time it takes
>>> to *do* stuff, needing an equal amount of time to decypher the o/s
>>> just doesn't
>>> work.
>>>
>>> Ed
>>
>> Basically my point is that a person is in college to learn and be
>> educated to prepare for the live ahead. Unless they are a computer
>> science student or something similar, the computer is simply another
>> tool to assist them in
>> this process.
>> It should be as transparent as possible which means the student should
>> follow the University guidelines as to what is acceptable.
>>
>> Standing on a pulpit, rebelling against "the man" and bucking the trend
>> is fine but it just creates additional stress for the student.
>>
>> There is no good reason to be the oddball in the class running Linux.
>> --
>> Moshe Goldfarb
>> Collector of soaps from around the globe. Please visit The Hall of
>> Linux Idiots: http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
>
> Which is exactly where my oldest daughter is. She wants out of the
> eeePC because it runs Linux. Her peers look over her shoulder and go,
> "ewww..." (grin) And, when she tries to work with others, they don't
> recognize the interface and they shut down. It probably doesn't help
> that she had a XP computer that she got used to for a couple years
> before we went eee. She's got a bunch of time "invested" in software
> that doesn't translate to anything available for Linux.

And that illustrates some of the main reasons people don't switch to
Linux based machines more often. People want what everyone else has, and
they want something they are familiar and comfortable with.

> My younger
> daughter doesn't care... she has a word processor, a spreadsheet, and a
> net browser, and she's happy. The older daughter will get one of new
> 10" xp eee's this fall semester.
>
> Ed

--
Rick
 
On 2008-08-06, Ed Edelenbos <eded@spookeasy.net> wrote:
>
> "JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message
> news:slrng9jchs.jtv.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
>> On 2008-08-06, Ed Edelenbos <eded@spookeasy.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_n_straw@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:fdgtn1sapfan$.gft9fp7dvxkm$.dlg@40tude.net...
>>>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:55:18 -0500, Rick wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 23:39:52 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I just received the August version of the Dell "Back to School"
>>>>>> catalog,
>>>>>> a big time of year for Dell BTW and not a mention of Linux. No where.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh yea, for $89.00 you can get the "Student Pack-Microsoft Office
>>>>>> Home"
>>>>>> which includes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Word 2007
>>>>>> Excel 2007
>>>>>> OneNote 2007
>>>>>> PowerPoint 2007
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So where is OpenOffice?
>>>>>
>>>>> <http://http://www.openoffice.org/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Why do you care?
>>>>
>>>> I don't.
>>>> i was just asking why it's not offered as an alternative.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Because 99.9% of the customer base doesn't know what Linux is and even
>>> less
>>> would want to try it.
>>>
>>> Because much of the course work that calls for (or requires) computer
>>> work
>>> is presented in ways specific to MS software (in the same way it used to
>>> be
>>> presented in a Mac OSx way.)
>>>
>>> Because people can turn on a MS machine and have it work without
>>> confusing
>>> scripts and complicated installation of inexpensive hardware.
>>
>> Not really. They can do very basic things and that's about it.
>>
>> Stray from that and they are just as lost as if a Commodore 64 was
>> sitting in front of them. If they don't have the ability to inclination
>> to get past the "appliance" presented to them it doesn't really matter
>> what OS they're subjected to.
>>
>
> So let's recap... it does what they need and overwhelmingly, they are
> already used to the interface. And they should change because????

It's useless as soon as they stray from using it as a web terminal.

Even as a web terminal it tends to get infected with malware and
eat itself.

>
> Not everyone wants to be a geek or comp sci. major. Most (by far) just want
> an appliance. Get linux to the point where it will work that way and it'll

Fine. Apple's good at that.

WinDOS machines always were user hostile machines that people only
ever bought because there was this perception that they "ran everything".

> start to gain acceptance. That and most don't see MS as an evil empire...
> they are just a company putting out a product. Quite successfully,
> apparently.

Enron. Exxon. Motorola. P&G. Monsanto. ConAgra.

People don't "see" MS at all. The rank and file that have to deal
with their box getting rooted really aren't Microsoft's customer. The
iPhone is a very good illustration of this. Those other phones all suck
because the people making them view their customer as Verizon or AT&T
rather than the person actually using it on a daily basis.

--
The best OS in the world is ultimately useless |||
if it is controlled by a Tramiel, Jobs or Gates. / | \

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com
 
On 2008-08-06, Ed Edelenbos <eded@spookeasy.net> wrote:
>
> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_n_straw@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:xax9jowlu6io.qle86a34c7hn$.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Wed, 6 Aug 2008 00:27:50 -0400, Ed Edelenbos wrote:
>>
>>> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_n_straw@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:fdgtn1sapfan$.gft9fp7dvxkm$.dlg@40tude.net...
>>>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:55:18 -0500, Rick wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 23:39:52 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I just received the August version of the Dell "Back to School"
>>>>>> catalog,
>>>>>> a big time of year for Dell BTW and not a mention of Linux. No where.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh yea, for $89.00 you can get the "Student Pack-Microsoft Office
>>>>>> Home"
>>>>>> which includes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Word 2007
>>>>>> Excel 2007
>>>>>> OneNote 2007
>>>>>> PowerPoint 2007
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So where is OpenOffice?
>>>>>
>>>>> <http://http://www.openoffice.org/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Why do you care?
>>>>
>>>> I don't.
>>>> i was just asking why it's not offered as an alternative.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Because 99.9% of the customer base doesn't know what Linux is and even
>>> less
>>> would want to try it.
>>>
>>> Because much of the course work that calls for (or requires) computer
>>> work
>>> is presented in ways specific to MS software (in the same way it used to
>>> be
>>> presented in a Mac OSx way.)
>>>
>>> Because people can turn on a MS machine and have it work without
>>> confusing
>>> scripts and complicated installation of inexpensive hardware.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As much as I agree with the "Down with The Man" and indie work and
>>> anarchy,
>>> sometimes I (like the majority of people) want something that works
>>> without
>>> needing to be a zealot about it. And with the amout of time it takes to
>>> *do* stuff, needing an equal amount of time to decypher the o/s just
>>> doesn't
>>> work.
>>>
>>> Ed
>>
>> Basically my point is that a person is in college to learn and be educated
>> to prepare for the live ahead. Unless they are a computer science student
>> or something similar, the computer is simply another tool to assist them
>> in
>> this process.
>> It should be as transparent as possible which means the student should
>> follow the University guidelines as to what is acceptable.
>>
>> Standing on a pulpit, rebelling against "the man" and bucking the trend is
>> fine but it just creates additional stress for the student.
>>
>> There is no good reason to be the oddball in the class running Linux.
>> --
>> Moshe Goldfarb
>> Collector of soaps from around the globe.
>> Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
>> http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
>
> Which is exactly where my oldest daughter is. She wants out of the eeePC
> because it runs Linux. Her peers look over her shoulder and go, "ewww..."
> (grin) And, when she tries to work with others, they don't recognize the
> interface and they shut down. It probably doesn't help that she had a XP

....just wait till they see Vista and the new version of msoffice.

[deletia]

Lemmings are the LAST people that should be whining about how some
new interface is different than some other old interface.

--
The best OS in the world is ultimately useless |||
if it is controlled by a Tramiel, Jobs or Gates. / | \

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com
 
Ed Edelenbos wrote:
> "JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message
> news:slrng9jchs.jtv.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
>> On 2008-08-06, Ed Edelenbos <eded@spookeasy.net> wrote:
>>> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_n_straw@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:fdgtn1sapfan$.gft9fp7dvxkm$.dlg@40tude.net...
>>>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:55:18 -0500, Rick wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 23:39:52 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I just received the August version of the Dell "Back to School"
>>>>>> catalog,
>>>>>> a big time of year for Dell BTW and not a mention of Linux. No where.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh yea, for $89.00 you can get the "Student Pack-Microsoft Office
>>>>>> Home"
>>>>>> which includes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Word 2007
>>>>>> Excel 2007
>>>>>> OneNote 2007
>>>>>> PowerPoint 2007
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So where is OpenOffice?
>>>>> <http://http://www.openoffice.org/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Why do you care?
>>>> I don't.
>>>> i was just asking why it's not offered as an alternative.
>>>>
>>> Because 99.9% of the customer base doesn't know what Linux is and even
>>> less
>>> would want to try it.
>>>
>>> Because much of the course work that calls for (or requires) computer
>>> work
>>> is presented in ways specific to MS software (in the same way it used to
>>> be
>>> presented in a Mac OSx way.)
>>>
>>> Because people can turn on a MS machine and have it work without
>>> confusing
>>> scripts and complicated installation of inexpensive hardware.
>> Not really. They can do very basic things and that's about it.
>>
>> Stray from that and they are just as lost as if a Commodore 64 was
>> sitting in front of them. If they don't have the ability to inclination
>> to get past the "appliance" presented to them it doesn't really matter
>> what OS they're subjected to.
>>
>
> So let's recap... it does what they need and overwhelmingly, they are
> already used to the interface. And they should change because????
>
> Not everyone wants to be a geek or comp sci. major. Most (by far) just want
> an appliance. Get linux to the point where it will work that way and it'll
> start to gain acceptance. That and most don't see MS as an evil empire...
> they are just a company putting out a product. Quite successfully,
> apparently.
>
> Ed
>
>



If you used Ubuntu you would know that Ubuntu does work that way. And if
you are geekish at some level you can also find that in Ubuntu.
caver1
 
Rick wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 11:38:17 -0400, Ed Edelenbos wrote:
>
>> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_n_straw@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:xax9jowlu6io.qle86a34c7hn$.dlg@40tude.net...
>>> On Wed, 6 Aug 2008 00:27:50 -0400, Ed Edelenbos wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_n_straw@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:fdgtn1sapfan$.gft9fp7dvxkm$.dlg@40tude.net...
>>>>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:55:18 -0500, Rick wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 23:39:52 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just received the August version of the Dell "Back to School"
>>>>>>> catalog,
>>>>>>> a big time of year for Dell BTW and not a mention of Linux. No
>>>>>>> where.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh yea, for $89.00 you can get the "Student Pack-Microsoft
>>>>>>> Office Home"
>>>>>>> which includes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Word 2007
>>>>>>> Excel 2007
>>>>>>> OneNote 2007
>>>>>>> PowerPoint 2007
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So where is OpenOffice?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://http://www.openoffice.org/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why do you care?
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't.
>>>>> i was just asking why it's not offered as an alternative.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Because 99.9% of the customer base doesn't know what Linux is and
>>>> even less
>>>> would want to try it.
>>>>
>>>> Because much of the course work that calls for (or requires)
>>>> computer work
>>>> is presented in ways specific to MS software (in the same way it
>>>> used to be
>>>> presented in a Mac OSx way.)
>>>>
>>>> Because people can turn on a MS machine and have it work without
>>>> confusing
>>>> scripts and complicated installation of inexpensive hardware.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As much as I agree with the "Down with The Man" and indie work and
>>>> anarchy,
>>>> sometimes I (like the majority of people) want something that works
>>>> without
>>>> needing to be a zealot about it. And with the amout of time it
>>>> takes to *do* stuff, needing an equal amount of time to decypher
>>>> the o/s just doesn't
>>>> work.
>>>>
>>>> Ed
>>>
>>> Basically my point is that a person is in college to learn and be
>>> educated to prepare for the live ahead. Unless they are a computer
>>> science student or something similar, the computer is simply another
>>> tool to assist them in
>>> this process.
>>> It should be as transparent as possible which means the student
>>> should follow the University guidelines as to what is acceptable.
>>>
>>> Standing on a pulpit, rebelling against "the man" and bucking the
>>> trend is fine but it just creates additional stress for the student.
>>>
>>> There is no good reason to be the oddball in the class running
>>> Linux. --
>>> Moshe Goldfarb
>>> Collector of soaps from around the globe. Please visit The Hall of
>>> Linux Idiots: http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
>>
>> Which is exactly where my oldest daughter is. She wants out of the
>> eeePC because it runs Linux. Her peers look over her shoulder and
>> go, "ewww..." (grin) And, when she tries to work with others, they
>> don't recognize the interface and they shut down. It probably
>> doesn't help that she had a XP computer that she got used to for a
>> couple years before we went eee. She's got a bunch of time
>> "invested" in software that doesn't translate to anything available
>> for Linux.
>
> And that illustrates some of the main reasons people don't switch to
> Linux based machines more often. People want what everyone else has,
> and they want something they are familiar and comfortable with.

No, they want something that works, and is compatible with the tools they
use. linux fails on all counts.


>
>> My younger
>> daughter doesn't care... she has a word processor, a spreadsheet,
>> and a net browser, and she's happy. The older daughter will get one
>> of new 10" xp eee's this fall semester.
>>
>> Ed
 
On Wed, 6 Aug 2008 09:16:28 -0500, JEDIDIAH wrote:


> Ironically, all of the usual FUD directed at Linux would be made moot
> by someone like Dell offering a preloaded version to the consumer.

But they don't and that's the point....



--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
 
* Ed Edelenbos peremptorily fired off this memo:

>> Stray from that and they are just as lost as if a Commodore 64 was
>> sitting in front of them. If they don't have the ability to inclination
>> to get past the "appliance" presented to them it doesn't really matter
>> what OS they're subjected to.
>
> So let's recap... it does what they need and overwhelmingly, they are
> already used to the interface. And they should change because????

Because, for a similar interface, they get a computer that runs faster
and lasts longer.

They will have to realize some Billy-ware stuff won't run so easily for
them.

> Not everyone wants to be a geek or comp sci. major. Most (by far) just want
> an appliance. Get linux to the point where it will work that way and it'll
> start to gain acceptance.

Huh? Not even Mac OSX works like "an appliance".

They're computers, not appliances.

You want an appliance? Check out a good washer/dryer or microwave oven.

> That and most don't see MS as an evil empire...
> they are just a company putting out a product. Quite successfully,
> apparently.

Indeed. Oil companies and big accounting firms put out a good product,
too. Quite successfully.

--
ASHes to ASHes, DOS to DOS.
 
* Ed Edelenbos peremptorily fired off this memo:

>> There is no good reason to be the oddball in the class running Linux.
>
> Which is exactly where my oldest daughter is. She wants out of the eeePC
> because it runs Linux. Her peers look over her shoulder and go, "ewww..."
> (grin) And, when she tries to work with others, they don't recognize the
> interface and they shut down. It probably doesn't help that she had a XP
> computer that she got used to for a couple years before we went eee. She's
> got a bunch of time "invested" in software that doesn't translate to
> anything available for Linux. My younger daughter doesn't care... she has
> a word processor, a spreadsheet, and a net browser, and she's happy. The
> older daughter will get one of new 10" xp eee's this fall semester.

Yeah, get 'em while they're young. Close off those choices early.

--
Please recycle.
 
"JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message
news:slrng9jjdu.pc6.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
> On 2008-08-06, Ed Edelenbos <eded@spookeasy.net> wrote:
>>
>> "JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message
>> news:slrng9jchs.jtv.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
>>> On 2008-08-06, Ed Edelenbos <eded@spookeasy.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_n_straw@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:fdgtn1sapfan$.gft9fp7dvxkm$.dlg@40tude.net...
>>>>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:55:18 -0500, Rick wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 23:39:52 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just received the August version of the Dell "Back to School"
>>>>>>> catalog,
>>>>>>> a big time of year for Dell BTW and not a mention of Linux. No
>>>>>>> where.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh yea, for $89.00 you can get the "Student Pack-Microsoft Office
>>>>>>> Home"
>>>>>>> which includes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Word 2007
>>>>>>> Excel 2007
>>>>>>> OneNote 2007
>>>>>>> PowerPoint 2007
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So where is OpenOffice?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://http://www.openoffice.org/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why do you care?
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't.
>>>>> i was just asking why it's not offered as an alternative.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Because 99.9% of the customer base doesn't know what Linux is and even
>>>> less
>>>> would want to try it.
>>>>
>>>> Because much of the course work that calls for (or requires) computer
>>>> work
>>>> is presented in ways specific to MS software (in the same way it used
>>>> to
>>>> be
>>>> presented in a Mac OSx way.)
>>>>
>>>> Because people can turn on a MS machine and have it work without
>>>> confusing
>>>> scripts and complicated installation of inexpensive hardware.
>>>
>>> Not really. They can do very basic things and that's about it.
>>>
>>> Stray from that and they are just as lost as if a Commodore 64 was
>>> sitting in front of them. If they don't have the ability to inclination
>>> to get past the "appliance" presented to them it doesn't really matter
>>> what OS they're subjected to.
>>>
>>
>> So let's recap... it does what they need and overwhelmingly, they are
>> already used to the interface. And they should change because????
>
> It's useless as soon as they stray from using it as a web terminal.
>
> Even as a web terminal it tends to get infected with malware and
> eat itself.
>

The evidence doesn't support your claim. I have machines in my house that
have been running since sometime in 2003 and have not gotten infected and
eaten themselves. They are still working just fine.

I just took down my dads old computer that was still running Windows 98
(after having been upgraded sometime back in 99 or 2000 from wWin95). It
was still running fine, but with a P3 600Mhz, it was having a hard time
keeping up with modern web apps.

Yes, if you frequent hacker and porn sites, it will probably get infected.
My answer is to not go where I have no need to go.

Ed
 

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