Re: Linux servers hacked - who would have thought

  • Thread starter Thread starter The poster fromerly known as 'The poster formerly
  • Start date Start date
Leythos wrote:
> In article <ezzzSEW4HHA.3916@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>,
> iamalias@shoesgmail.com. says...
>> To clarify, I never said that Linux is "bullet proof". It's just a
>> helluva lot more bullet proof than Windows.
>
> In the hands of the ignorant masses, the article proves that it's not
> more "bullet proof" than Windows. Password failures are one of the
> largest causes of system compromise.
>
> What the article proves is that any OS, in the hands of stupid/ignorant
> people can be compromised and used by unauthorized people.
>
>

Your disdain and snootiness is noted. It's an indisputable fact that a
user who isn't computer savvy would be far safer with Linux than with
Windows.

--
Alias
To email me, remove shoes
 
"Wayne Poe" <louis@h4h.com> wrote in message
news:5inbtcF3qm784U1@mid.individual.net...
> It can, but it's not so much Linux but either bad software or improperly
> configured software. Again, that is a sizable difference when you compare
> to all the security flaws at Window's core, which includes IE (ever since
> they integrated it into Explorer back in Win 98.) Just look at how many
> exploits are found at the _core_ and sometimes patches are then released
> to try to fix them and sometimes new one arises. Problems at the core
> problems are generally not an issue in Linux, but rather the different
> softwares that run with in.

Yeah, and it was indeed an issue back then, especially with netscape.

IIRC, they got taken to court over that. But the biggest part of it
was that there was a lot of bad blood over it. Microsoft's point
was that it would be easier to use. But everyone cried monopoly.

SO Microsoft wanted to do something different. In the long
run, I think they accomplished what they set out to do, albeit
with some setbacks. But there's motive there. Impossible for me
to believe that there aren't dark forces at work against MS
and Vista even today. Serious programmers, not just hackers,
reverse engineering the code, looking for flaws, and/or creating
them even if they didn't exist. Criminal acts entirely. But no matter
what, Microsoft was the bad guy then.

Funny how things change.

> Bottom line, security patches help, doing your job as a system's
> administrator is even better. There just sin't any substitute for that
> imho.
That's the truest statement I've read in this thread so far.

Curtis
 
The poster formerly known as the poster formerly known as Nina DiBoy
>> Well, isn't your complaining about the post being off-topic itself
>> off-topic? It's off-topic squared.
>>
>> In other words, isn't a complaint about something being off-topic an
>> example of hypocrisy?
>>
>>
>
> And what does this post of yours complaining about my 'OT' post
> accomplish? The same thing, but cubed.

I didn't 'complain,' I simply observed. And asked a question.

In my view, complaing about an OT post is, by definition, off-topic.
 
Alias wrote:
>
> Your disdain and snootiness is noted. It's an indisputable fact that a
> user who isn't computer savvy would be far safer with Linux than with
> Windows.

Finally, you and I agree. A user who isn't computer savvy IS, in fact, safer
with Linux. Because he can't use it!

Face it, the command interface for Linux was designed by nerds who believed
the complexity of the MS-DOS command line was not arcane enough.

I think much of the push for Linux comes from geeks who can't get a date.
 
HeyBub wrote:
> Alias wrote:
>> Your disdain and snootiness is noted. It's an indisputable fact that a
>> user who isn't computer savvy would be far safer with Linux than with
>> Windows.
>
> Finally, you and I agree. A user who isn't computer savvy IS, in fact, safer
> with Linux. Because he can't use it!

I know a 74 year old lady who is very happy with Ubuntu and she doesn't
even know what a terminal is for, much less a command line. Modern Linux
distros have GUIs that are very similar to Windows. She used to call
once a month to have malware removed. She doesn't have that problem anymore.

> Face it, the command interface for Linux was designed by nerds who believed
> the complexity of the MS-DOS command line was not arcane enough.

More like not powerful enough.

> I think much of the push for Linux comes from geeks who can't get a date.

Linux isn't just for geeks anymore, with or without dates.
--
Alias
To email me, remove shoes
 
What I want to know is...can Linux help *get* me a date? <vbg>

--
HTH,
Curt

Windows Support Center
www.aumha.org
Practically Nerded,...
http://dundats.mvps.org/Index.htm

"Alias" <iamalias@shoesgmail.com.> wrote in message
news:OjoTcda4HHA.4712@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
| HeyBub wrote:
| > Alias wrote:
| >> Your disdain and snootiness is noted. It's an indisputable fact that a
| >> user who isn't computer savvy would be far safer with Linux than with
| >> Windows.
| >
| > Finally, you and I agree. A user who isn't computer savvy IS, in fact,
safer
| > with Linux. Because he can't use it!
|
| I know a 74 year old lady who is very happy with Ubuntu and she doesn't
| even know what a terminal is for, much less a command line. Modern Linux
| distros have GUIs that are very similar to Windows. She used to call
| once a month to have malware removed. She doesn't have that problem
anymore.
|
| > Face it, the command interface for Linux was designed by nerds who
believed
| > the complexity of the MS-DOS command line was not arcane enough.
|
| More like not powerful enough.
|
| > I think much of the push for Linux comes from geeks who can't get a
date.
|
| Linux isn't just for geeks anymore, with or without dates.
| --
| Alias
| To email me, remove shoes
 
Alias wrote:


Your supercilious disdain for computer users is noted.

>Your supercilious disdain for Windows users is duly noted.

Fact is that an, as you call it, "ignorant user" is far safer running
Linux than Windows.
This is an indisputable fact.


>Fact is, that is not a fact at all but simply an ill informed ignorant
and arrogant assumption on your part.
Ignorance is bliss as you have so blissfully demonstrated.
Frank
 
In article <5inac8F3pbpa4U1@mid.individual.net>,
"Clenna Lumina" <savagebeaste@yahoo.com> wrote:

> "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
> news:MPG.21300b676c2f8ba4989906@adfree.Usenet.com...
> > In article <eg9VVuR4HHA.4712@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>,
> > noone@afakeddomain.net says...
> >> And that same zealotry mantra of the ignorant can be seen from the
> >> windows side too.
> >
> > Yep, it's not something that is unique to ANY OS. I use to know a couple
> > network admins that logged in as a root level account on AIX for their
> > daily work - they said it made thing simpler :)
>
> It really depends on the person, but in general over the years I found
> Windows users for the most part to be less knowledgeable of how thier
> computer works than a typical Linux or Unix user.

Which is why Windows dominates (and OS X is gaining users) and Linux is
still going nowhere after 10 years of "This year is the year of LOTD!".
Linux is still for geeks and servers. People don't want/need to know
"how their computer works" any more than they want/need to know how
their TV, cell phone or microwave oven works. They just want to turn
it on and use it.

Mike
 
Mike wrote:
> In article <5inac8F3pbpa4U1@mid.individual.net>,
> "Clenna Lumina" <savagebeaste@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.21300b676c2f8ba4989906@adfree.Usenet.com...
>>> In article <eg9VVuR4HHA.4712@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>,
>>> noone@afakeddomain.net says...
>>>> And that same zealotry mantra of the ignorant can be seen from the
>>>> windows side too.
>>> Yep, it's not something that is unique to ANY OS. I use to know a couple
>>> network admins that logged in as a root level account on AIX for their
>>> daily work - they said it made thing simpler :)
>> It really depends on the person, but in general over the years I found
>> Windows users for the most part to be less knowledgeable of how thier
>> computer works than a typical Linux or Unix user.
>
> Which is why Windows dominates (and OS X is gaining users) and Linux is
> still going nowhere after 10 years of "This year is the year of LOTD!".
> Linux is still for geeks and servers. People don't want/need to know
> "how their computer works" any more than they want/need to know how
> their TV, cell phone or microwave oven works. They just want to turn
> it on and use it.
>
> Mike

I see you're only familiar with old Linux versions. The new ones can do
almost everything with a GUI. Ubuntu, for example, is MUCH easier to
install than Windows will ever be and ticking boxes next to the programs
you want and then clicking on "Apply" doesn't exactly require a degree
in computer science.

But, what the hell, I'll bite: what would confuse people in Ubuntu? Name
one thing. You claim that Linux is only for geeks so you must have proof,

--
Alias
To email me, remove shoes
 
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 12:09:10 -0400, Mike wrote:

> In article <5inac8F3pbpa4U1@mid.individual.net>,
> "Clenna Lumina" <savagebeaste@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.21300b676c2f8ba4989906@adfree.Usenet.com...
>> > In article <eg9VVuR4HHA.4712@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>,
>> > noone@afakeddomain.net says...
>> >> And that same zealotry mantra of the ignorant can be seen from the
>> >> windows side too.
>> >
>> > Yep, it's not something that is unique to ANY OS. I use to know a couple
>> > network admins that logged in as a root level account on AIX for their
>> > daily work - they said it made thing simpler :)
>>
>> It really depends on the person, but in general over the years I found
>> Windows users for the most part to be less knowledgeable of how thier
>> computer works than a typical Linux or Unix user.
>
> Which is why Windows dominates (and OS X is gaining users) and Linux is
> still going nowhere after 10 years of "This year is the year of LOTD!".
> Linux is still for geeks and servers. People don't want/need to know
> "how their computer works" any more than they want/need to know how
> their TV, cell phone or microwave oven works. They just want to turn
> it on and use it.

If you want to go by that then *any* operating system that doesn't come
pre-installed (note the keyword there) is only for geeks and servers.

To install an OS requires a person to know how their computer works else
they wouldn't know what drivers to install, how to configure it, and so
on. That applies to any version of Windows as much as it applies to Linux
or any other operating system.

I mean why (among other potential reasons) do you think people like Dell
and HP use "restore disks/partitions" instead of giving people the
software on individual CDs? The majority of people wouldn't be able to
reinstall and configure everything manually, windows or not.

So really, it boils down to that for the masses, the system needs to come
pre-installed, pre-configured and ready to use. At that point in time, any
system that comes with an OS in that needs, no matter what said OS may be,
is going to work for the user as long as the software available for said
OS meets all the users needs.

--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

å›ã®ã“ã¨æ€ã„出ã™æ—¥ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯
å›ã®ã“ã¨å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸã¨ããŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰
 
"Mike" <no@where.man> wrote in message
news:no-97BCC4.12085518082007@news.supernews.com...
> In article <5inac8F3pbpa4U1@mid.individual.net>,
> "Clenna Lumina" <savagebeaste@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.21300b676c2f8ba4989906@adfree.Usenet.com...
>> > In article <eg9VVuR4HHA.4712@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>,
>> > noone@afakeddomain.net says...
>> >> And that same zealotry mantra of the ignorant can be seen from the
>> >> windows side too.
>> >
>> > Yep, it's not something that is unique to ANY OS. I use to know a
>> > couple
>> > network admins that logged in as a root level account on AIX for their
>> > daily work - they said it made thing simpler :)
>>
>> It really depends on the person, but in general over the years I found
>> Windows users for the most part to be less knowledgeable of how thier
>> computer works than a typical Linux or Unix user.
>
> Which is why Windows dominates (and OS X is gaining users) and Linux is
> still going nowhere after 10 years of "This year is the year of LOTD!".

You must be living in an old abandoned mine if you really think Linux gone
no where. It has bene continuually growing over the years and has gotten
beter and more and more people have switched to it (partly due to Vista no
doubt.)

> Linux is still for geeks and servers.

It's used for servers a plenty, but its no logner *just* for thme so stop
trying to portray your clouded vision as reality, because it's far from it.

> People don't want/need to know "how their computer works" any more
> than they want/need to know how their TV, cell phone or microwave
> oven works. They just want to turn it on and use it.

Computers and typical house hold applicances are two differnt breeds of
animals. In computers, to really do anything useful, you must know what you
are doing. Becasue of Windows, you have hords of clueless morons who
continuely whine to tech support lines and can't even describe their
problem.

why *shouldn't* computer users have *some* education so they aren't just
utter clueless? One should have at least a basic idea of how things work in
order to use it.
 
Clenna Lumina wrote:

> You must be living in an old abandoned mine if you really think Linux gone
> no where. It has bene continuually growing over the years and has gotten
> beter and more and more people have switched to it (partly due to Vista no
> doubt.)
>

Bullsh*t!
Frank
 
"Frank" <fb@nospaner.cnm> wrote in message
news:OYRNPRc4HHA.4400@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Clenna Lumina wrote:
>
>> You must be living in an old abandoned mine if you really think Linux
>> gone no where. It has bene continuually growing over the years and has
>> gotten beter and more and more people have switched to it (partly due to
>> Vista no doubt.)
>>
>
> Bullsh*t!

In what way?
 
"Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.2130a71251ab012498990b@adfree.Usenet.com...
> In article <5inaqfF3pv8spU1@mid.individual.net>, savagebeaste@yahoo.com
> says...
>> It's amazing how people like you just jump on the band wagon and show
>> that
>> you haven't even read the article.
>>
>> If you think Linux has been actually "cracked" then site an instance.
>> Anyone
>> can site and try over and over, or evne run an pllication that permutates
>> over every combination, and/or runs through a dictionary file. I hardly
>> call
>> that "cracking"... most would call that a admin asleep at the helm.
>
> Um, you didn't understand what I wrote - I use Windows and Linux and
> enjoy both, but, it clearly shows how ignorant users can compromise a
> system. The fault of a bad password is the same fault that windows users
> suffer, complete incompetence and ignorance.

True. But the big difference is the frequency at which such dumb things
happen.
 
Frank wrote:
> The poster formerly known as the poster formerly known as Nina DiBoy wrote:
>
>> HeyBub wrote:
>>
>>> The poster fromerly known as 'The poster formerly known as Nina DiBoy'
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Curtis D. Levin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The poster formerly known as ??? wrote...
>>>>>
>>>>>> How does this negate the fact that this MVP is being a hypocrate by
>>>>>> doing something that he ran another poster off of the group for?
>>>>>
>>>>> Simple. The other poster was writing about Ubuntu, but
>>>>> probably wasn't pro vista.
>>>>
>>>> Non-issue, has no bearing on this subject whether someone posting an
>>>> off topic post without even labeling it as an OT post is pro vista or
>>>> not.
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, isn't your complaining about the post being off-topic itself
>>> off-topic? It's off-topic squared.
>>>
>>> In other words, isn't a complaint about something being off-topic an
>>> example of hypocrisy?
>>>
>>
>> And what does this post of yours complaining about my 'OT' post
>> accomplish? The same thing, but cubed.
>>
>
> I bet we're now gonna have a math quiz, right?
> Damn!
> Frank

Hehe! :)
Well I get off right here! Math isn't one of my stronger subjects.

--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

"Only religious fanatics and totalitarian states equate morality with
legality."
- Linus Torvalds
 
HeyBub wrote:
> The poster formerly known as the poster formerly known as Nina DiBoy
>>> Well, isn't your complaining about the post being off-topic itself
>>> off-topic? It's off-topic squared.
>>>
>>> In other words, isn't a complaint about something being off-topic an
>>> example of hypocrisy?
>>>
>>>
>> And what does this post of yours complaining about my 'OT' post
>> accomplish? The same thing, but cubed.
>
> I didn't 'complain,' I simply observed. And asked a question.
>
> In my view, complaing about an OT post is, by definition, off-topic.
>
>

And it's even more ridiculous for an MVP to do exactly the same thing
that he has loudly complained about another poster doing! Just making
an observation here.

--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

"Only religious fanatics and totalitarian states equate morality with
legality."
- Linus Torvalds
 

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