Re: How unpopular is Ubuntu Linux, just take a look.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Moshe Goldfarb
  • Start date Start date
M

Moshe Goldfarb

On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 18:33:27 -0700 (PDT), bobbie wrote:

> Well, here's an interesting article from the Georgia Straight.
>
> quoted from the article:
>
> "The second annual PWN2OWN hacking contest takes place during
> CanSecWest, a computer-security conference that runs from March 26 to
> 28 at the Renaissance Vancouver Hotel Harbourside. (In computer-
> security circles, PWN--a misspelling of own--is slang for controlling or
> corrupting a computer.) In the contest, three laptops run Windows
> Vista, Mac OS X, and Linux Ubuntu, a popular open-source operating
> system the first competitor to hack one of the laptops gets to keep
> it and wins a cash prize."
>
> Not bad for an operating system that most Microsoft fanbois instist
> doesn't even register on the radar.
>
> Full article is here at:
> http://www.straight.com/article-138309/hacking-fun-and-fortune?#

Ubuntu is popular because of Shuttleworth, his money and his connections
and influence.

Money talks and had he chosen say Mepis, then Mepis would be number one on
distrowatch, as a rule.

Five years ago if you asked a reasonably knowledgeable person a question
about 'linux' they would answer "yea, I've heard of Redhat'.

Today they say Ubuntu.

The community also happens to be very good and supportive and that helps as
well, but the truth is that other distributions exist that are superior.

PCLinuxOS for one.



--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
 
On 2008-03-30, Moshe Goldfarb <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 18:33:27 -0700 (PDT), bobbie wrote:
>
>> Well, here's an interesting article from the Georgia Straight.
>>
>> quoted from the article:
>>
>> "The second annual PWN2OWN hacking contest takes place during
>> CanSecWest, a computer-security conference that runs from March 26 to
>> 28 at the Renaissance Vancouver Hotel Harbourside. (In computer-
>> security circles, PWN--a misspelling of own--is slang for controlling or
>> corrupting a computer.) In the contest, three laptops run Windows
>> Vista, Mac OS X, and Linux Ubuntu, a popular open-source operating
>> system the first competitor to hack one of the laptops gets to keep
>> it and wins a cash prize."
>>
>> Not bad for an operating system that most Microsoft fanbois instist
>> doesn't even register on the radar.
>>
>> Full article is here at:
>> http://www.straight.com/article-138309/hacking-fun-and-fortune?#
>
> Ubuntu is popular because of Shuttleworth, his money and his connections
> and influence.
>
> Money talks and had he chosen say Mepis, then Mepis would be number one on
> distrowatch, as a rule.
>
> Five years ago if you asked a reasonably knowledgeable person a question
> about 'linux' they would answer "yea, I've heard of Redhat'.
>
> Today they say Ubuntu.
>
> The community also happens to be very good and supportive and that helps as
> well, but the truth is that other distributions exist that are superior.
>
> PCLinuxOS for one.
>
>
>

I used fedora for years and switched to Ubuntu. It is very well put
together and works much more smoothly than Fedora. It does have some
real benefits that accrue to users like me.

i
 
Ignoramus10476 wrote:

> I used fedora for years and switched to Ubuntu. It is very well put
> together and works much more smoothly than Fedora. It does have some
> real benefits that accrue to users like me.

Linux is Linux, in my opinion. The "brand" (distribution) you choose is more
a more a matter of taste and personal requirements than anything else.

Use what you like. It's all part of the the Linux freedom.

--
RonB
"There's a story there...somewhere"
 
On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 21:47:04 -0500, Ignoramus10476 wrote:

> On 2008-03-30, Moshe Goldfarb <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 18:33:27 -0700 (PDT), bobbie wrote:
>>
>>> Well, here's an interesting article from the Georgia Straight.
>>>
>>> quoted from the article:
>>>
>>> "The second annual PWN2OWN hacking contest takes place during
>>> CanSecWest, a computer-security conference that runs from March 26 to
>>> 28 at the Renaissance Vancouver Hotel Harbourside. (In computer-
>>> security circles, PWN--a misspelling of own--is slang for controlling or
>>> corrupting a computer.) In the contest, three laptops run Windows
>>> Vista, Mac OS X, and Linux Ubuntu, a popular open-source operating
>>> system the first competitor to hack one of the laptops gets to keep
>>> it and wins a cash prize."
>>>
>>> Not bad for an operating system that most Microsoft fanbois instist
>>> doesn't even register on the radar.
>>>
>>> Full article is here at:
>>> http://www.straight.com/article-138309/hacking-fun-and-fortune?#
>>
>> Ubuntu is popular because of Shuttleworth, his money and his connections
>> and influence.
>>
>> Money talks and had he chosen say Mepis, then Mepis would be number one on
>> distrowatch, as a rule.
>>
>> Five years ago if you asked a reasonably knowledgeable person a question
>> about 'linux' they would answer "yea, I've heard of Redhat'.
>>
>> Today they say Ubuntu.
>>
>> The community also happens to be very good and supportive and that helps as
>> well, but the truth is that other distributions exist that are superior.
>>
>> PCLinuxOS for one.
>>
>>
>>
>
> I used fedora for years and switched to Ubuntu. It is very well put
> together and works much more smoothly than Fedora. It does have some
> real benefits that accrue to users like me.
>
> i

I would agree.
Ubuntu is much better than Fedora which is nothing but free beta testing
for Redhat.

--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
 
On 2008-03-30, Moshe Goldfarb <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 21:47:04 -0500, Ignoramus10476 wrote:
>
>> On 2008-03-30, Moshe Goldfarb <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 18:33:27 -0700 (PDT), bobbie wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, here's an interesting article from the Georgia Straight.
>>>>
>>>> quoted from the article:
>>>>
>>>> "The second annual PWN2OWN hacking contest takes place during
>>>> CanSecWest, a computer-security conference that runs from March 26 to
>>>> 28 at the Renaissance Vancouver Hotel Harbourside. (In computer-
>>>> security circles, PWN--a misspelling of own--is slang for controlling or
>>>> corrupting a computer.) In the contest, three laptops run Windows
>>>> Vista, Mac OS X, and Linux Ubuntu, a popular open-source operating
>>>> system the first competitor to hack one of the laptops gets to keep
>>>> it and wins a cash prize."
>>>>
>>>> Not bad for an operating system that most Microsoft fanbois instist
>>>> doesn't even register on the radar.
>>>>
>>>> Full article is here at:
>>>> http://www.straight.com/article-138309/hacking-fun-and-fortune?#
>>>
>>> Ubuntu is popular because of Shuttleworth, his money and his connections
>>> and influence.
>>>
>>> Money talks and had he chosen say Mepis, then Mepis would be number one on
>>> distrowatch, as a rule.
>>>
>>> Five years ago if you asked a reasonably knowledgeable person a question
>>> about 'linux' they would answer "yea, I've heard of Redhat'.
>>>
>>> Today they say Ubuntu.
>>>
>>> The community also happens to be very good and supportive and that helps as
>>> well, but the truth is that other distributions exist that are superior.
>>>
>>> PCLinuxOS for one.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I used fedora for years and switched to Ubuntu. It is very well put
>> together and works much more smoothly than Fedora. It does have some
>> real benefits that accrue to users like me.
>>
>> i
>
> I would agree.
> Ubuntu is much better than Fedora which is nothing but free beta testing
> for Redhat.
>

I am totally shocked that I agree with your characterization.

i
 
On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 22:30:34 -0500, Ignoramus10476 wrote:

> On 2008-03-30, Moshe Goldfarb <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 21:47:04 -0500, Ignoramus10476 wrote:
>>
>>> On 2008-03-30, Moshe Goldfarb <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 18:33:27 -0700 (PDT), bobbie wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, here's an interesting article from the Georgia Straight.
>>>>>
>>>>> quoted from the article:
>>>>>
>>>>> "The second annual PWN2OWN hacking contest takes place during
>>>>> CanSecWest, a computer-security conference that runs from March 26 to
>>>>> 28 at the Renaissance Vancouver Hotel Harbourside. (In computer-
>>>>> security circles, PWN--a misspelling of own--is slang for controlling or
>>>>> corrupting a computer.) In the contest, three laptops run Windows
>>>>> Vista, Mac OS X, and Linux Ubuntu, a popular open-source operating
>>>>> system the first competitor to hack one of the laptops gets to keep
>>>>> it and wins a cash prize."
>>>>>
>>>>> Not bad for an operating system that most Microsoft fanbois instist
>>>>> doesn't even register on the radar.
>>>>>
>>>>> Full article is here at:
>>>>> http://www.straight.com/article-138309/hacking-fun-and-fortune?#
>>>>
>>>> Ubuntu is popular because of Shuttleworth, his money and his connections
>>>> and influence.
>>>>
>>>> Money talks and had he chosen say Mepis, then Mepis would be number one on
>>>> distrowatch, as a rule.
>>>>
>>>> Five years ago if you asked a reasonably knowledgeable person a question
>>>> about 'linux' they would answer "yea, I've heard of Redhat'.
>>>>
>>>> Today they say Ubuntu.
>>>>
>>>> The community also happens to be very good and supportive and that helps as
>>>> well, but the truth is that other distributions exist that are superior.
>>>>
>>>> PCLinuxOS for one.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I used fedora for years and switched to Ubuntu. It is very well put
>>> together and works much more smoothly than Fedora. It does have some
>>> real benefits that accrue to users like me.
>>>
>>> i
>>
>> I would agree.
>> Ubuntu is much better than Fedora which is nothing but free beta testing
>> for Redhat.
>>
>
> I am totally shocked that I agree with your characterization.
>
> i

Why?
I call them as I see them.
When people have reasonable discussion, I am reasonable.
When the idiots in COLA claim everything Linux works for them and nothing,
or almost nothing Windows/Microsoft works, why bother being reasonable?

--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
 
Moshe Goldfarb wrote:

> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 18:33:27 -0700 (PDT), bobbie wrote:
>
>> Well, here's an interesting article from the Georgia Straight.
>>
>> quoted from the article:
>>
>> "The second annual PWN2OWN hacking contest takes place during
>> CanSecWest, a computer-security conference that runs from March 26 to
>> 28 at the Renaissance Vancouver Hotel Harbourside. (In computer-
>> security circles, PWN--a misspelling of own--is slang for controlling or
>> corrupting a computer.) In the contest, three laptops run Windows
>> Vista, Mac OS X, and Linux Ubuntu, a popular open-source operating
>> system the first competitor to hack one of the laptops gets to keep
>> it and wins a cash prize."
>>
>> Not bad for an operating system that most Microsoft fanbois instist
>> doesn't even register on the radar.
>>
>> Full article is here at:
>> http://www.straight.com/article-138309/hacking-fun-and-fortune?#
>
> Ubuntu is popular because of Shuttleworth, his money and his connections
> and influence.
>
I'd bet that the vast majority of Windoze users who go and download and
install Ubuntu and like it, don't have a clue who Shuttleworth is. So much
for your theory.

Cheers.

--
The world can't afford the rich.

Q: What OS is built for lusers?
A: Which one requires running lusermgr.msc to create them?

Francis (Frank) adds a new "gadget" to his Vista box ...
Download it here: http://tinyurl.com/2hnof6
 
On 2008-03-30, Moshe Goldfarb <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 22:30:34 -0500, Ignoramus10476 wrote:
>
>> On 2008-03-30, Moshe Goldfarb <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 21:47:04 -0500, Ignoramus10476 wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2008-03-30, Moshe Goldfarb <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 18:33:27 -0700 (PDT), bobbie wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, here's an interesting article from the Georgia Straight.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> quoted from the article:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The second annual PWN2OWN hacking contest takes place during
>>>>>> CanSecWest, a computer-security conference that runs from March 26 to
>>>>>> 28 at the Renaissance Vancouver Hotel Harbourside. (In computer-
>>>>>> security circles, PWN--a misspelling of own--is slang for controlling or
>>>>>> corrupting a computer.) In the contest, three laptops run Windows
>>>>>> Vista, Mac OS X, and Linux Ubuntu, a popular open-source operating
>>>>>> system the first competitor to hack one of the laptops gets to keep
>>>>>> it and wins a cash prize."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not bad for an operating system that most Microsoft fanbois instist
>>>>>> doesn't even register on the radar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Full article is here at:
>>>>>> http://www.straight.com/article-138309/hacking-fun-and-fortune?#
>>>>>
>>>>> Ubuntu is popular because of Shuttleworth, his money and his connections
>>>>> and influence.
>>>>>
>>>>> Money talks and had he chosen say Mepis, then Mepis would be number one on
>>>>> distrowatch, as a rule.
>>>>>
>>>>> Five years ago if you asked a reasonably knowledgeable person a question
>>>>> about 'linux' they would answer "yea, I've heard of Redhat'.
>>>>>
>>>>> Today they say Ubuntu.
>>>>>
>>>>> The community also happens to be very good and supportive and that helps as
>>>>> well, but the truth is that other distributions exist that are superior.
>>>>>
>>>>> PCLinuxOS for one.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I used fedora for years and switched to Ubuntu. It is very well put
>>>> together and works much more smoothly than Fedora. It does have some
>>>> real benefits that accrue to users like me.
>>>>
>>>> i
>>>
>>> I would agree.
>>> Ubuntu is much better than Fedora which is nothing but free beta testing
>>> for Redhat.
>>>
>>
>> I am totally shocked that I agree with your characterization.
>>
>> i
>
> Why?
> I call them as I see them.
> When people have reasonable discussion, I am reasonable.
> When the idiots in COLA claim everything Linux works for them and nothing,
> or almost nothing Windows/Microsoft works, why bother being reasonable?
>

I guess that you did not bother being reasonable, so much, that when I
saw a reasonable statement, I was shocked.

i
 
NoStop <nospam@nospam.com> writes:

> Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 18:33:27 -0700 (PDT), bobbie wrote:
>>
>>> Well, here's an interesting article from the Georgia Straight.
>>>
>>> quoted from the article:
>>>
>>> "The second annual PWN2OWN hacking contest takes place during
>>> CanSecWest, a computer-security conference that runs from March 26 to
>>> 28 at the Renaissance Vancouver Hotel Harbourside. (In computer-
>>> security circles, PWN--a misspelling of own--is slang for controlling or
>>> corrupting a computer.) In the contest, three laptops run Windows
>>> Vista, Mac OS X, and Linux Ubuntu, a popular open-source operating
>>> system the first competitor to hack one of the laptops gets to keep
>>> it and wins a cash prize."
>>>
>>> Not bad for an operating system that most Microsoft fanbois instist
>>> doesn't even register on the radar.
>>>
>>> Full article is here at:
>>> http://www.straight.com/article-138309/hacking-fun-and-fortune?#
>>
>> Ubuntu is popular because of Shuttleworth, his money and his connections
>> and influence.
>>
> I'd bet that the vast majority of Windoze users who go and download and
> install Ubuntu and like it, don't have a clue who Shuttleworth is. So much
> for your theory.
>
> Cheers.

Sometimes I wonder if you could get any more stupid and one eyed.

People go and download it/try it because of the publicity and the news
brought about by Shuttleworth's drive, money and involvement. He doesn't
actually drive himself forward like many, e,g Ellison and Jobs, do.

Left to COLA types, nothing would have changed as Linux was already
"winning" and on 70% of desktops and 500% faster and was ready for the
desktop 10 years ago.... etc etc etc yadda yadda yadda.

--
It's simply unbelievable how much energy and creativity people have
invested into creating contradictory, bogus and stupid licenses...
-- - Sven Rudolph about licences in debian/non-free.
 
Ignoramus10476 wrote:
> I used fedora for years and switched to Ubuntu. It is very well put
> together and works much more smoothly than Fedora. It does have some
> real benefits that accrue to users like me.

I, too, agree that Ubuntu is more polished than the rest of the Linux
distributions, but until big application makers such as Adobe and others
support it with their first class applications, Linux is nothing,
unfortunately
 
On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 00:10:04 -0500, Ignoramus10476 wrote:

> On 2008-03-30, Moshe Goldfarb <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 22:30:34 -0500, Ignoramus10476 wrote:
>>
>>> On 2008-03-30, Moshe Goldfarb <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 21:47:04 -0500, Ignoramus10476 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2008-03-30, Moshe Goldfarb <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 18:33:27 -0700 (PDT), bobbie wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, here's an interesting article from the Georgia Straight.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> quoted from the article:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "The second annual PWN2OWN hacking contest takes place during
>>>>>>> CanSecWest, a computer-security conference that runs from March 26 to
>>>>>>> 28 at the Renaissance Vancouver Hotel Harbourside. (In computer-
>>>>>>> security circles, PWN--a misspelling of own--is slang for controlling or
>>>>>>> corrupting a computer.) In the contest, three laptops run Windows
>>>>>>> Vista, Mac OS X, and Linux Ubuntu, a popular open-source operating
>>>>>>> system the first competitor to hack one of the laptops gets to keep
>>>>>>> it and wins a cash prize."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not bad for an operating system that most Microsoft fanbois instist
>>>>>>> doesn't even register on the radar.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Full article is here at:
>>>>>>> http://www.straight.com/article-138309/hacking-fun-and-fortune?#
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ubuntu is popular because of Shuttleworth, his money and his connections
>>>>>> and influence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Money talks and had he chosen say Mepis, then Mepis would be number one on
>>>>>> distrowatch, as a rule.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Five years ago if you asked a reasonably knowledgeable person a question
>>>>>> about 'linux' they would answer "yea, I've heard of Redhat'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Today they say Ubuntu.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The community also happens to be very good and supportive and that helps as
>>>>>> well, but the truth is that other distributions exist that are superior.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PCLinuxOS for one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I used fedora for years and switched to Ubuntu. It is very well put
>>>>> together and works much more smoothly than Fedora. It does have some
>>>>> real benefits that accrue to users like me.
>>>>>
>>>>> i
>>>>
>>>> I would agree.
>>>> Ubuntu is much better than Fedora which is nothing but free beta testing
>>>> for Redhat.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I am totally shocked that I agree with your characterization.
>>>
>>> i
>>
>> Why?
>> I call them as I see them.
>> When people have reasonable discussion, I am reasonable.
>> When the idiots in COLA claim everything Linux works for them and nothing,
>> or almost nothing Windows/Microsoft works, why bother being reasonable?
>>
>
> I guess that you did not bother being reasonable, so much, that when I
> saw a reasonable statement, I was shocked.
>
> i

I can understand that.
COLA is typically not a reasonable group :)

--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
 
On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 10:35:30 -0400, nospam wrote:

> Ignoramus10476 wrote:
>> I used fedora for years and switched to Ubuntu. It is very well put
>> together and works much more smoothly than Fedora. It does have some
>> real benefits that accrue to users like me.
>
> I, too, agree that Ubuntu is more polished than the rest of the Linux
> distributions, but until big application makers such as Adobe and others
> support it with their first class applications, Linux is nothing,
> unfortunately

Actually Adobe and others are fairly irrelevant.

Sticking with Adobe, let's look at Photoshop.

Other than graphics artists and related people, who actually legally and
legitimately owns and uses Photoshop? What percentage of people is there
that actually can use Photoshop to it's fullest extend? I know I sure
can't. I'm lucky if I can manage to draw a straight line.

There is plenty of software in existence that can meet the needs of the
average person. The biggest thing that Photoshop simply has going for
itself is the name.

Now how about accounting?

Sure, there is Quickbooks and the people I know in Accounting love some
features about it. I also hear them curse and absolutely hate some other
things about it. So it's got it's good and bad parts.

But what about home users? Personally, I just use Gnucash and call it a
day. I can enter all my expenses and bills and categorize things the way
I want. And, it's got more graphs and reports to show with than I even
know what they all mean. About the only report I give a crap about is the
expense barchart so I can see where my expenses are and what may be worth
looking at for improvement....So even if this program doesn't have all
the features Quickbooks has, it already has more than I'll ever need...

Office?

Sure, Ms Office has some neat features. But let's be realistic....who
needs a $300-$400 office package in order to write a letter to grandma?

Point that I'm trying to get across is, while all these high end packages
may have some neat features that surely there are people out there,
especially in the business world and maybe even on occasion in the home
user world, who wouldn't want to or can't live without....for the masses
at home, in my opinion, they are beyond overkill.

And so far, I've always been shown to be correct on that when introducing
average people with little to know technical knowledge of any kind to
Linux. It's those people, the people many windows advocates would claim
could never handle linux because it's too complicated, that I've seen to
best with it and none of them would want to return to windows.

In some cases, they've even come to me and told me how they've had
relatives switch away from windows based on their recommendation,
completely uninfluenced and unassisted by me. Gee, can't be that
complicated after all I suppose?

--
Stephan
1986 Pontiac Fiero GT

å›ã®äº‹æ€ã„出ã™æ—¥ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯
å›ã®äº‹å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸã¨ããŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰
 
Stephan Rose <nospam@spammer.com> writes:

> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 10:35:30 -0400, nospam wrote:
>
>> Ignoramus10476 wrote:
>>> I used fedora for years and switched to Ubuntu. It is very well put
>>> together and works much more smoothly than Fedora. It does have some
>>> real benefits that accrue to users like me.
>>
>> I, too, agree that Ubuntu is more polished than the rest of the Linux
>> distributions, but until big application makers such as Adobe and others
>> support it with their first class applications, Linux is nothing,
>> unfortunately
>
> Actually Adobe and others are fairly irrelevant.
>
> Sticking with Adobe, let's look at Photoshop.
>
> Other than graphics artists and related people, who actually legally and
> legitimately owns and uses Photoshop? What percentage of people is there
> that actually can use Photoshop to it's fullest extend? I know I sure
> can't. I'm lucky if I can manage to draw a straight line.
>
> There is plenty of software in existence that can meet the needs of the
> average person. The biggest thing that Photoshop simply has going for
> itself is the name.

What utter nonsense. There are hundreds of thousand professional artists
who use it. Your, and mine, ignorance of its usage should not be used as
a justified reason to dispute its importance.

> Now how about accounting?
>
> Sure, there is Quickbooks and the people I know in Accounting love some
> features about it. I also hear them curse and absolutely hate some other
> things about it. So it's got it's good and bad parts.

No news there.

>
> But what about home users? Personally, I just use Gnucash and call it a
> day. I can enter all my expenses and bills and categorize things the way
> I want. And, it's got more graphs and reports to show with than I even
> know what they all mean. About the only report I give a crap about is the
> expense barchart so I can see where my expenses are and what may be worth
> looking at for improvement....So even if this program doesn't have all
> the features Quickbooks has, it already has more than I'll ever
> need...

For home use, maybe fine. Does you local tax office except it though?
Mine doesn't.

>
> Office?
>
> Sure, Ms Office has some neat features. But let's be realistic....who
> needs a $300-$400 office package in order to write a letter to
> grandma?

Huh? What are you waffling on about? O paid significantly less than that
and used word/excel for all sorts of things same as I now do with the
inferior OO equivalents.

>
> Point that I'm trying to get across is, while all these high end packages
> may have some neat features that surely there are people out there,
> especially in the business world and maybe even on occasion in the home
> user world, who wouldn't want to or can't live without....for the masses
> at home, in my opinion, they are beyond overkill.

I tend to agree in some cases.

>
> And so far, I've always been shown to be correct on that when introducing
> average people with little to know technical knowledge of any kind to
> Linux. It's those people, the people many windows advocates would claim
> could never handle linux because it's too complicated, that I've seen to
> best with it and none of them would want to return to windows.

Unless they wanted proper connectivity with their PDA, their mobile or
wanted to play the latest games. I agree.

>
> In some cases, they've even come to me and told me how they've had
> relatives switch away from windows based on their recommendation,
> completely uninfluenced and unassisted by me. Gee, can't be that
> complicated after all I suppose?

I wouldn't say its necessarily complicated. I would say that not enough
"new gadgets" have decent Linux support though. The wireless scene is
still a mess IMO. And the video card support can still be hairy unless
you use a "non conforming to ideology" release like Ubuntu.

Who here syncs their phone on Linux? I worked out my own way and posted
it here with ivman. (Oh I know I dont really use linux according to the
COLA morons). But things like that screw up people thinking of moving.


http://fixunix.com/ubuntu/267531-how-sync-mobile-phone-ubuntu-connect-using-multisync.html


--
"For example, user interfaces are _usually_ better in commercial software.
I'm not saying that this is always true, but in many cases the user
interface to a program is the most important part for a commercial
company..." Linus Torvalds <http://www.tlug.jp/docs/linus.html>
 
On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 17:40:38 +0200, Hadron wrote:

> Stephan Rose <nospam@spammer.com> writes:
>
>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 10:35:30 -0400, nospam wrote:
>>
>>> Ignoramus10476 wrote:
>>>> I used fedora for years and switched to Ubuntu. It is very well put
>>>> together and works much more smoothly than Fedora. It does have some
>>>> real benefits that accrue to users like me.
>>>
>>> I, too, agree that Ubuntu is more polished than the rest of the Linux
>>> distributions, but until big application makers such as Adobe and others
>>> support it with their first class applications, Linux is nothing,
>>> unfortunately
>>
>> Actually Adobe and others are fairly irrelevant.
>>
>> Sticking with Adobe, let's look at Photoshop.
>>
>> Other than graphics artists and related people, who actually legally and
>> legitimately owns and uses Photoshop? What percentage of people is there
>> that actually can use Photoshop to it's fullest extend? I know I sure
>> can't. I'm lucky if I can manage to draw a straight line.
>>
>> There is plenty of software in existence that can meet the needs of the
>> average person. The biggest thing that Photoshop simply has going for
>> itself is the name.
>
> What utter nonsense. There are hundreds of thousand professional artists
> who use it. Your, and mine, ignorance of its usage should not be used as
> a justified reason to dispute its importance.
>
>> Now how about accounting?
>>
>> Sure, there is Quickbooks and the people I know in Accounting love some
>> features about it. I also hear them curse and absolutely hate some other
>> things about it. So it's got it's good and bad parts.
>
> No news there.
>
>>
>> But what about home users? Personally, I just use Gnucash and call it a
>> day. I can enter all my expenses and bills and categorize things the way
>> I want. And, it's got more graphs and reports to show with than I even
>> know what they all mean. About the only report I give a crap about is the
>> expense barchart so I can see where my expenses are and what may be worth
>> looking at for improvement....So even if this program doesn't have all
>> the features Quickbooks has, it already has more than I'll ever
>> need...
>
> For home use, maybe fine. Does you local tax office except it though?
> Mine doesn't.
>
>>
>> Office?
>>
>> Sure, Ms Office has some neat features. But let's be realistic....who
>> needs a $300-$400 office package in order to write a letter to
>> grandma?
>
> Huh? What are you waffling on about? O paid significantly less than that
> and used word/excel for all sorts of things same as I now do with the
> inferior OO equivalents.
>
>>
>> Point that I'm trying to get across is, while all these high end packages
>> may have some neat features that surely there are people out there,
>> especially in the business world and maybe even on occasion in the home
>> user world, who wouldn't want to or can't live without....for the masses
>> at home, in my opinion, they are beyond overkill.
>
> I tend to agree in some cases.
>
>>
>> And so far, I've always been shown to be correct on that when introducing
>> average people with little to know technical knowledge of any kind to
>> Linux. It's those people, the people many windows advocates would claim
>> could never handle linux because it's too complicated, that I've seen to
>> best with it and none of them would want to return to windows.
>
> Unless they wanted proper connectivity with their PDA, their mobile or
> wanted to play the latest games. I agree.
>
>>
>> In some cases, they've even come to me and told me how they've had
>> relatives switch away from windows based on their recommendation,
>> completely uninfluenced and unassisted by me. Gee, can't be that
>> complicated after all I suppose?
>
> I wouldn't say its necessarily complicated. I would say that not enough
> "new gadgets" have decent Linux support though. The wireless scene is
> still a mess IMO. And the video card support can still be hairy unless
> you use a "non conforming to ideology" release like Ubuntu.
>
> Who here syncs their phone on Linux? I worked out my own way and posted
> it here with ivman. (Oh I know I dont really use linux according to the
> COLA morons). But things like that screw up people thinking of moving.
>
>
> http://fixunix.com/ubuntu/267531-how-sync-mobile-phone-ubuntu-connect-using-multisync.html

Well put Hadron!

Another thing is that students use some of these programs, especially
Photoshop and they get student discounts or in some cases the price is
covered in their tuition so it's not and issue.

It's all about standards.

Do you think an accountant is going to take a chance using your Gnucash
files?
Even if his program can read them, why would he put himself in a
potentially legally troubling situation like that?

Do you think a lawyer is going to take a chance with OpenOffice importing
Microsoft Word documents EXACTLY?
When every single comma, period and so forth can make a big difference in
the interpretation of the document do you think a law office would take a
chance on Open Office?

They would have to be crazy...
For $300 or less they can have the real macoy, MS Office.
Why go with a copycat?

--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
 
"Hadron" <hadronquark@googlemail.com> stated in post
fsoca1$nt5$1@registered.motzarella.org on 3/30/08 8:40 AM:

>> Other than graphics artists and related people, who actually legally and
>> legitimately owns and uses Photoshop? What percentage of people is there
>> that actually can use Photoshop to it's fullest extend? I know I sure
>> can't. I'm lucky if I can manage to draw a straight line.
>>
>> There is plenty of software in existence that can meet the needs of the
>> average person. The biggest thing that Photoshop simply has going for
>> itself is the name.
>
> What utter nonsense. There are hundreds of thousand professional artists
> who use it. Your, and mine, ignorance of its usage should not be used as
> a justified reason to dispute its importance.

I certainly am not primarily an image editing professional but I know I use
a number of features of Photoshop that are simply not available in Gimp or
other OSS tools (that I know of). Just some of those features:

* adjustment layers
* smart layers
* non-destructive "smart" filters
* better selection tools, refinement of edges, etc.
* Image warp
* Layer alignment and blending tools
* layer sets
* vanishing point
* vector based layers with effects
* liquefy
* clipping groups
* web slices
* text handling: kerning, baseline shift, etc.
* snapshots in undo history
* history brush
* free transform
* text blending (drop shadow, etc.)
* simple automation recording

I could be wrong on some of those (I have not used Gimp much)... but from
what I recall Gimp lacks them all.

>> Now how about accounting?
>>
>> Sure, there is Quickbooks and the people I know in Accounting love some
>> features about it. I also hear them curse and absolutely hate some other
>> things about it. So it's got it's good and bad parts.
>
> No news there.

I used to work for Intuit supporting Quickbooks little brother, Quicken. It
is - or was - a mess of a program. If nothing else the UI was horrid and the
file groups that it used were prone to corruption.



--
The direct use of physical force is so poor a solution to the problem of
limited resources that it is commonly employed only by small children and
great nations. - David Friedman
 
On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 10:31:16 -0500, Stephan Rose wrote:

>
> But what about home users? Personally, I just use Gnucash and call it a
> day. I can enter all my expenses and bills and categorize things the way
> I want. And, it's got more graphs and reports to show with than I even
> know what they all mean. About the only report I give a crap about is
> the expense barchart so I can see where my expenses are and what may be
> worth looking at for improvement....So even if this program doesn't have
> all the features Quickbooks has, it already has more than I'll ever
> need...

A turbotax port would be nice, especially for us sole proprietors who are
trying to run the biz as economically as possible.



--
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like and I like less
than half of you half as well as you deserve.
-- J. R. R. Tolkien
 
rick <icky@sticky.inv> writes:

> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 10:31:16 -0500, Stephan Rose wrote:
>
>>
>> But what about home users? Personally, I just use Gnucash and call it a
>> day. I can enter all my expenses and bills and categorize things the way
>> I want. And, it's got more graphs and reports to show with than I even
>> know what they all mean. About the only report I give a crap about is
>> the expense barchart so I can see where my expenses are and what may be
>> worth looking at for improvement....So even if this program doesn't have
>> all the features Quickbooks has, it already has more than I'll ever
>> need...
>
> A turbotax port would be nice, especially for us sole proprietors who are
> trying to run the biz as economically as possible.

What would be nice would be one solution that works - not yet another
half finished "port".

--
I thought you had a CS degree? And you never did a compiler course? I am
amazed! - Hadron Quark, COLA
Really? Why are you amazed? Do you think computer science courses include courses on writing
compilers too? REALLY? - Andrew "Spike1" Halliwell BSc CS, COLA
-- COLA where they put the lunacy in Advocacy.
 
On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 18:35:14 +0200, Hadron wrote:

> rick <icky@sticky.inv> writes:
>
>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 10:31:16 -0500, Stephan Rose wrote:
>>
>>
>>> But what about home users? Personally, I just use Gnucash and call it
>>> a day. I can enter all my expenses and bills and categorize things the
>>> way I want. And, it's got more graphs and reports to show with than I
>>> even know what they all mean. About the only report I give a crap
>>> about is the expense barchart so I can see where my expenses are and
>>> what may be worth looking at for improvement....So even if this
>>> program doesn't have all the features Quickbooks has, it already has
>>> more than I'll ever need...
>>
>> A turbotax port would be nice, especially for us sole proprietors who
>> are trying to run the biz as economically as possible.
>
> What would be nice would be one solution that works - not yet another
> half finished "port".

So, tell us again why you use all these half finished ports?

--
Rick
 
Stephan Rose wrote:

> Actually Adobe and others are fairly irrelevant.
>
> Sticking with Adobe, let's look at Photoshop.
>
> Other than graphics artists and related people, who actually legally and
> legitimately owns and uses Photoshop? What percentage of people is there
> that actually can use Photoshop to it's fullest extend? I know I sure
> can't. I'm lucky if I can manage to draw a straight line.

....Linux then is for you...
 
"Moshe Goldfarb" <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:r690jbpnqhdr.1bt1uyjci3i92.dlg@40tude.net...

> It's all about standards.

Yep, and that is why ODF is winning over MOOXML. Microsoft isn't standard
in squat, all of Microsoft is proprietary, closed etc.

> Do you think an accountant is going to take a chance using your Gnucash
> files?

Why not? He can even audit the code. It isn't like Excel libraries haven't
had issues with math.
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9039058

> Even if his program can read them, why would he put himself in a
> potentially legally troubling situation like that?

Doubtful and has never happened.

> Do you think a lawyer is going to take a chance with OpenOffice importing
> Microsoft Word documents EXACTLY?

That hasn't been much of a problem for 4 years or so.

Or do you mean like back doors and easter eggs?

http://www.eeggs.com/tree/558.html

OpenOffice is safer, as even saves in PDF without the need to purchase
Adobe. More people have viewed and vetted the code too. More bucks in your
pocket. )

> When every single comma, period and so forth can make a big difference in
> the interpretation of the document do you think a law office would take a
> chance on Open Office?

More reason to use OpenOffice.

> They would have to be crazy...
> For $300 or less they can have the real macoy, MS Office.
> Why go with a copycat?

MS Office isn't the real McCoy ether, others were long before it. We
survived changing to Word, we will survive changing from word.

In my area, I can get a discount, $329 for Office 2007 Pro OEM. They didn't
list Visio but I hear it is pricy. So I use OpenOffice and Dia and spend
the $329 on beer.

Times evolve. But some sticks in the mud do not.
 
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