Windows 95/98/ME Win98 upgrade to SE

  • Thread starter Thread starter technolady@earthlink.net
  • Start date Start date
Thanks, thought I had missed a Windows version :-)

"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
news:OnM5ttA0IHA.5892@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
| Windows 98 First Edition (though it wasn't actually called that.)
|
| --
| Gary S. Terhune
| MS-MVP Shell/User
| http://grystmill.com
|
| "Sunny" <wombathouse@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
| news:ewVnHaA0IHA.5108@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
| >
| > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
| > news:O0DOei%23zIHA.3884@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
| > | glee wrote:
| > | > "Hackmaster" <u44236@uwe> wrote in message
news:85be95571e63b@uwe...
| > | >> Win98 = no usb
| > | >> Win98SE = usb compatible, but some drivers are tricky to load,
| > details
| > | >> vary.
| > | >> snip
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > Totally incorrect
| > |
| > | Totally incorrect?? You mean (for example) that Win98 FE has at
| > least
| > | some USB support in it? (I can't recall now)
| > |
| > | I thought that USB support was either added (or maybe just extended)
in
| > | Win98SE. (But albeit *nothing* like the USB support that was put
into
| > | WinME.
| >
| > What is Win98FE ?
| >
| >
|
|
 
Thanks GAry.....saved it for future play. Steve is the MAN when it comes to
networking. I'll try his tweaks. What is the 9x system user has no password (by
that I mean a blank password)? If a blank password is not acceptable, that'd
explain some of the problems on the network I referred to.

I have consistently seen a freeze when trying to access the Vista default shares
from a 9x machine. I have not heard of a cure yet.

You gotta love this quote from Steve's post:
"If you want to try accessing Vista's shared folders from 95/98/Me, I
recommend taking these safety measures first: make a restore point on
Vista, and back up your important data on all computers."

That's what I mean by it hardly being worth the effort.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
http://dts-l.net/
http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm


"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
news:u%23dGgPB0IHA.5928@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Mostly all figured out with Ultimate, but I suspect there may be differences in
> lesser versions when it comes to ease of setting up a workgroup. Here's the main
> trick:
>
> http://help.lockergnome.com/windows2/Vista-network-problem-ftopict482765.html
> There's a post near the bottom from Gloria Boyer, MSFT, that explains the issue is
> authentication. Vista is configured out of the box to use *only* NTLM2 for
> authentication. For domain-controlled networks (I don't think it works for
> Workgroups, though I'm still looking into that), what you do is install DSClient
> and then add an entry to the Registry that makes the authentication NTLM2-only.
> (See http://support.microsoft.com/kb/239869).
>
> But what worked for me is to change Vista to accept NTLM(1) as per Steve
> Winograd's solution:
> http://help.lockergnome.com/windows2/WinMe-Vista-glitch-ftopict484703.html
>
> Major problem with this method is that while I (and others who have reported) can
> see Vista's shared folders from Win98 (Gold, fully updated, no DSClient or
> Registry tweak), there are two shares that you can't touch (total freeze.) They
> are Vista's built in shares called "Users" and "Public". Why, I don't know, but
> I'm still playing with it.
>
> Anyway, if you want to transfer any or ALL of the data from a Win98 machine to the
> Vista machine, create a folder on the Vista machine (not on the Desktop, where you
> can't apparently share folders for some reason), share it, and then do Steve's two
> tweaks. The folder should then be totally available to the Win98 machine.
>
> Other things to remember: There must exist a User on the Vista machine with
> exactly the same username and password you use to log onto your Win9x machine. And
> any time you mess with network settings on the Vista machine, for some weird
> reason, to finish the job you may have to go to the Users applet and "change" your
> password. DON'T actually change it, just put in the same old password three times
> and click OK (or whatever -- I can't see Vista while I write because it's
> dual-booted on this machine and I'm not moving my mail over there.
>
> --
> Gary S. Terhune
> MS-MVP Shell/User
> http://grystmill.com
>
> "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:OpC4VKA0IHA.4040@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
>> news:uO7gZ6$zIHA.4912@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> To both Hackmaster and DadiOH... Putting an IDE hard drive into almost any of
>>> the newer machines isn't always easy, or even possible. Even if you manage to
>>> connect it to the PATA connector, strange things happen that
>>> require different settings in BIOS, and it can get weird, to say the least.
>>>
>>> New external enclosure won't work, either, since it has the same problem as the
>>> flash drives. Next to no USB support.
>>>
>>> Networking is the way to go, IMO.
>>
>> As long as you're networking the 98 machine with the XP machine, it's the way to
>> go.
>>
>> Trying to network a 98 system with a Vista system is not worth the effort, if you
>> can get it to work at all. You may get the Vista system to copy from the 98
>> system, but don't even bother trying to look the other way....at least in my
>> experience it has been a mess.
>>
>> Have you had any luck with a Vista--98 network?
>>
>>
>>> "dadiOH" <dadiOH@invalid.com> wrote in message
>>> news:uTxC5s5zIHA.2188@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>> technolady@earthlink.net wrote:
>>>>> I have an old Win98 computer that doesn't have internet access, and i
>>>>> need to transfer files from it to a newer computer. Trying to use a
>>>>> flash drive for it, but the flash drive manufacturer requires download
>>>>> of drivers to use it with SE, and it can't be used for earlier
>>>>> versions of Windows.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any suggestions on (1) transferring the files
>>>>
>>>> 1. Remove drive from old computer
>>>>
>>>> 2. Put drive in new computer after setting drive jumper to reflect the position
>>>> (master/slave)
>>>>
>>>> 3. Copy files
>>
>> --
>> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
>> http://dts-l.net/
>> http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm
>>
>
>
 
Gary S. Terhune wrote:
> To both Hackmaster and DadiOH... Putting an IDE hard drive into almost any
> of the newer machines isn't always easy, or even possible. Even if you
> manage to connect it to the PATA connector, strange things happen that
> require different settings in BIOS, and it can get weird, to say the
> least.
>
> New external enclosure won't work, either, since it has the same problem
> as
> the flash drives. Next to no USB support.

I use a Vantec NextStar3 USB2 external HD enclosure, along with an USB 2.0
PCI card, in my Win98SE computer, and that works out great!

The USB external HD enclosure contains a standard PATA EIDE hard drive.

The trick is, to get an enclosure that is compatible with (and comes with)
drivers for Win98SE, as this colorful Vantec one does.
 
"glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
news:%23$bWAtB0IHA.2292@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Thanks GAry.....saved it for future play. Steve is the MAN when it comes
> to networking. I'll try his tweaks. What is the 9x system user has no
> password (by that I mean a blank password)? If a blank password is not
> acceptable, that'd explain some of the problems on the network I referred
> to.

AFAIK, blank password isn't accepted, but I haven't tried it. Note that I
tried the Win98SE machine and it had no problem seeing the shared folder on
the Vista machine (but still had that crazy freeze up if I try to access
User or Public shares.

> I have consistently seen a freeze when trying to access the Vista default
> shares from a 9x machine. I have not heard of a cure yet.
>
> You gotta love this quote from Steve's post:
> "If you want to try accessing Vista's shared folders from 95/98/Me, I
> recommend taking these safety measures first: make a restore point on
> Vista, and back up your important data on all computers."
>
> That's what I mean by it hardly being worth the effort.

This is true, but when it's what there is... You should heard some of the
horror stories I've heard lately about people trying to transfer data from
98 to Vista using some modern USB connectiuon thingy and programs that have
no idea where things are stored on 98.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com

> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
> news:u%23dGgPB0IHA.5928@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> Mostly all figured out with Ultimate, but I suspect there may be
>> differences in lesser versions when it comes to ease of setting up a
>> workgroup. Here's the main trick:
>>
>> http://help.lockergnome.com/windows2/Vista-network-problem-ftopict482765.html
>> There's a post near the bottom from Gloria Boyer, MSFT, that explains the
>> issue is authentication. Vista is configured out of the box to use *only*
>> NTLM2 for authentication. For domain-controlled networks (I don't think
>> it works for Workgroups, though I'm still looking into that), what you do
>> is install DSClient and then add an entry to the Registry that makes the
>> authentication NTLM2-only. (See http://support.microsoft.com/kb/239869).
>>
>> But what worked for me is to change Vista to accept NTLM(1) as per Steve
>> Winograd's solution:
>> http://help.lockergnome.com/windows2/WinMe-Vista-glitch-ftopict484703.html
>>
>> Major problem with this method is that while I (and others who have
>> reported) can see Vista's shared folders from Win98 (Gold, fully updated,
>> no DSClient or Registry tweak), there are two shares that you can't touch
>> (total freeze.) They are Vista's built in shares called "Users" and
>> "Public". Why, I don't know, but I'm still playing with it.
>>
>> Anyway, if you want to transfer any or ALL of the data from a Win98
>> machine to the Vista machine, create a folder on the Vista machine (not
>> on the Desktop, where you can't apparently share folders for some
>> reason), share it, and then do Steve's two tweaks. The folder should then
>> be totally available to the Win98 machine.
>>
>> Other things to remember: There must exist a User on the Vista machine
>> with exactly the same username and password you use to log onto your
>> Win9x machine. And any time you mess with network settings on the Vista
>> machine, for some weird reason, to finish the job you may have to go to
>> the Users applet and "change" your password. DON'T actually change it,
>> just put in the same old password three times and click OK (or
>> whatever -- I can't see Vista while I write because it's dual-booted on
>> this machine and I'm not moving my mail over there.
>>
>> --
>> Gary S. Terhune
>> MS-MVP Shell/User
>> http://grystmill.com
>>
>> "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
>> news:OpC4VKA0IHA.4040@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
>>> news:uO7gZ6$zIHA.4912@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>> To both Hackmaster and DadiOH... Putting an IDE hard drive into almost
>>>> any of the newer machines isn't always easy, or even possible. Even if
>>>> you manage to connect it to the PATA connector, strange things happen
>>>> that
>>>> require different settings in BIOS, and it can get weird, to say the
>>>> least.
>>>>
>>>> New external enclosure won't work, either, since it has the same
>>>> problem as the flash drives. Next to no USB support.
>>>>
>>>> Networking is the way to go, IMO.
>>>
>>> As long as you're networking the 98 machine with the XP machine, it's
>>> the way to go.
>>>
>>> Trying to network a 98 system with a Vista system is not worth the
>>> effort, if you can get it to work at all. You may get the Vista system
>>> to copy from the 98 system, but don't even bother trying to look the
>>> other way....at least in my experience it has been a mess.
>>>
>>> Have you had any luck with a Vista--98 network?
>>>
>>>
>>>> "dadiOH" <dadiOH@invalid.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:uTxC5s5zIHA.2188@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>> technolady@earthlink.net wrote:
>>>>>> I have an old Win98 computer that doesn't have internet access, and i
>>>>>> need to transfer files from it to a newer computer. Trying to use a
>>>>>> flash drive for it, but the flash drive manufacturer requires
>>>>>> download
>>>>>> of drivers to use it with SE, and it can't be used for earlier
>>>>>> versions of Windows.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any suggestions on (1) transferring the files
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Remove drive from old computer
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Put drive in new computer after setting drive jumper to reflect the
>>>>> position (master/slave)
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. Copy files
>>>
>>> --
>>> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
>>> http://dts-l.net/
>>> http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm
>>>
>>
>>
>
 
I should have been more clear -- the machine that is the topic of this
thread has next to no USB support. It's an Original.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:et5f8TD0IHA.4816@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Gary S. Terhune wrote:
>> To both Hackmaster and DadiOH... Putting an IDE hard drive into almost
>> any
>> of the newer machines isn't always easy, or even possible. Even if you
>> manage to connect it to the PATA connector, strange things happen that
>> require different settings in BIOS, and it can get weird, to say the
>> least.
>>
>> New external enclosure won't work, either, since it has the same problem
>> as
>> the flash drives. Next to no USB support.
>
> I use a Vantec NextStar3 USB2 external HD enclosure, along with an USB 2.0
> PCI card, in my Win98SE computer, and that works out great!
>
> The USB external HD enclosure contains a standard PATA EIDE hard drive.
>
> The trick is, to get an enclosure that is compatible with (and comes with)
> drivers for Win98SE, as this colorful Vantec one does.
>
 
"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
news:eWW5btA0IHA.1772@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> You just plug it in and it works? Or are there not certain BIOS settings
to
> change? I tell you, my ASUS P5B was a PITA to set up when I was trying to
do
> just this operation. Can't recall the details now, but after a few hours,
I
> dug up Promise card, instead, since I needed the single PATA connector for
> my optical drives.
>

I've never yet had a problem with the BIOS set to auto detect...
unless the drive is larger than what the bios can handle.
Of course, since the OP would be putting an older drive in a newer
machine...
there should be no problem.

BTW: One little trick I have learned is that an auxiliary HD does not
require a bios call at all.
I recall having a few older machines where the owner wanted a
second...larger...drive installed...
but the bios simply "choked" while trying to detect it.
For those machines I simply manually set the bios to "NONE"

The bios detection simply skipped the drive,
yet it was recognized fine by the OS.

I did have to put a label on the machine with documentation of what I did...
in case someone else would be working on the machine.




> --
> Gary S. Terhune
> MS-MVP Shell/User
> http://grystmill.com
>
> "philo" <philo@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:ObjUjWA0IHA.5832@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> >
> > "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
> > news:utlwW9$zIHA.4040@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> >> Putting old IDE with PATA connectors into many or most new machines is
a
> >> royal PITA. The PATA connections aren't really intended for hard
drives,
> >> only for Optical drives, though there are usually ways to tweak the
BIOS
> > to
> >> make things work. Easier thing to do is get a PCI card controller--if
> >> there's room for one.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > I do it all the time and there is no problem unless the cable (as shown
> > here)
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Technology_Attachment
> > has one of the holes blocked and the HD has a pin there.
> > If I run into that I just grab an old 40 wire cable and use it.
> >
> > Though data transfer time may be a little slower...
> > for a one time data transfer it should not be a major problem
> >
> >
> >
> >> --
> >> Gary S. Terhune
> >> MS-MVP Shell/User
> >> http://grystmill.com
> >>
> >> "philo" <philo@privacy.net> wrote in message
> >> news:OpRk%23E%23zIHA.2292@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> >> >
> >> > "dadiOH" <dadiOH@invalid.com> wrote in message
> >> > news:uTxC5s5zIHA.2188@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> >> >> technolady@earthlink.net wrote:
> >> >> > I have an old Win98 computer that doesn't have internet access,
and
> >> >> > i
> >> >> > need to transfer files from it to a newer computer. Trying to use
a
> >> >> > flash drive for it, but the flash drive manufacturer requires
> > download
> >> >> > of drivers to use it with SE, and it can't be used for earlier
> >> >> > versions of Windows.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Any suggestions on (1) transferring the files
> >> >>
> >> >> 1. Remove drive from old computer
> >> >>
> >> >> 2. Put drive in new computer after setting drive jumper to reflect
the
> >> >> position (master/slave)
> >> >>
> >> >> 3. Copy files
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Yep.
> >> > If you don't mind fooling with h/w that's often the easiest route to
> >> > go.
> >> >
> >> > Otherwise, networking the machines is another possibility.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
 
Some more ideas.

Simple, if you want to spend the money, don't want to upgrade the 98, and
don't want to open the case.
Depending on file size and if you have access to 3-!/2 floppies.
Buy external floppy drive for the XP. Probably $30-$40 or less at most
suppliers and are USB plug and play. once you transfer your files you
probably will be stuck with a piece of hardware you don't need.

This one I think is feasible for the 98 and take more time, but if you have
plans to do any upgrading, is one I am sure most here would suggest be done
sooner or later. I know it will work for 98SE.
If you have a CD player replace it with a CD/DVD burner. Costs $30-$40 or
less, takes about 20-30 minutes to install.
Open the case, unplug the leads to the old CD player. Remove the retaining
screws. Slide out the old CD player. slide in the new Burner. Connect the
leads. Close up the case and turn the computer on. It shoul discover and
install the new unit.

Depending on the drivers you have, you should be able to read at least CD's.
To burn anything, you will need to install a burner program, there are
several free ones that will work with 98, the people here can steer you to
good ones.
Download and save the burner program to your Vista or XP machine. Burn it to
a cd and use the cd to install the program on the 98.

Now you burn all your files to CD/DVD for transfer.









"technolady@earthlink.net" wrote:

> I have an old Win98 computer that doesn't have internet access, and i
> need to transfer files from it to a newer computer. Trying to use a
> flash drive for it, but the flash drive manufacturer requires download
> of drivers to use it with SE, and it can't be used for earlier
> versions of Windows.
>
> Any suggestions on (1) transferring the files (2) making the flash
> drive usable?
>
> Thanks.
>
 
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