The XP group is just as busy as Vista

  • Thread starter Thread starter Rachel
  • Start date Start date
"Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@remove_mvps.com> wrote in message
news:OTsQZh%23xIHA.2188@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> "Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote in message
> news:Egc2k.7637$js6.2201@pd7urf1no...
>>
>> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@remove_mvps.com> wrote in message
>> news:%23sPSV62xIHA.2360@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>
>>> Al of this bashing has been seen before. Unfortunately, Vista appearance
>>> at the door co-incided with a downturn in the global economy, and was
>>> badly supported by OEMs and peripheral device manufacturers.
>>>
>>> It will be interesting to see what is said about Vista when Windows 7
>>> appears..
>>
>> I bet, regurgitated Vista. Maybe call it Siesta to we can Siesta la
>> Vista. Vista will be known as a turning point in M$ fortunes.
>>
>> But all the OEMs fault? What, all the OEMs ganging up on Vista to make
>> it a hated OS? Hardly. Maybe the driver API is not as usable or
>> unstable. Go figure. With driver signing I once read Vista is one step
>> closer where Microsoft will charge royalties to driver vendors to sign
>> their drivers. Each new OS from MS since W2000 has been increasing this
>> DRM, it isn't just the RIAA stuff here.
>>
>> BTW, vendor support in the last year for Linux, vastly improved.
>>
>
>
> If you dislike MS so much, why are you here? Have you run Vista lately?

Only if I want an easy game of chess and to see what updates MS is pushing.
Then I switch back to Linux, GNU chess is harder to beat.
 
The date and time was 6/6/2008 9:33 AM, and on a whim, Canuck57 pounded
out on the keyboard:

> "Terry R." <F1Com@NOSPAMpobox.com> wrote in message
> news:OsCa7j%23xIHA.1504@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> The date and time was 6/6/2008 8:05 AM, and on a whim, Canuck57 pounded
>> out on the keyboard:
>>
>>> "Terry R." <F1Com@NOSPAMpobox.com> wrote in message
>>> news:eO7lA04xIHA.4816@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>
>>>> Don't blame the economy on Vista's failure. The bottom line is there is
>>>> no advantage for business to move to it. Vista isn't any more stable
>>>> than XP and Vista doesn't run anything better than XP, so why waste the
>>>> funds implementing the upgrades? "Badly supported"? I just think the
>>>> manufacturers said, "Not going to bother".
>>> Terry, well put. People are still buying PCs as their batteries die or
>>> the system gets too old. There is also a rise in sales of systems like
>>> Eee PC. That is, alternatives to the M$ OS are emerging. Even Apple is
>>> doing great.
>>>
>>> From a business perspective, the ONLY reason to go Vista is if you are a
>>> software house writing Vista code. After that, Vista offers a big fat
>>> zero benefit. Just a hole to spend money with no ROI.
>>>
>>> I have yet to see one productive tangible thing you can do in Vista, that
>>> you cannot do in XP. Even faster in XP given the same hardware.
>> If MS would have made MSO2007 Vista only like they did with
>> Office95/Win95, it probably would have helped. I have a few clients with
>> networks I admin, and the powers that be always want the "latest &
>> greatest". Those clients are slowly moving to MSO2007, but aren't
>> interested in Vista. Not that they're gaining anything mind you (which
>> they admit), they just like new toys. But even those clients have their
>> default save settings set to "Office 2003" format in Word & Excel.
>
> I haven't used Microsoft Office for 3 years unless my employer paid for it.
> I have been a Open Office ( http://www.openoffice.org/ ) user ever since.
> Even at work, loaded it up and just had to remember to save as Xp/W200x
> office or export to PDF. No one was any the wiser, as long as I remembered
> not to attach the ODF (open document format) file.
>
> My guess is Open Office is growing in popularity. When over at friends and
> relatives they ask, is it worth the $$$ to buy office as work will not let
> me have a copy? I walk up to their PC, download and install Open Office.
> Haven't had anyone remove it yet. Got a case of beer once.
>
>
>

I don't use it either. I use WP & Lotus. But most of my network clients
use it, and quite a few of those are non-profit, so they get MS products
almost for free.

--
Terry R.

***Reply Note***
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.
 
"Terry R." <F1Com@NOSPAMpobox.com> wrote in message
news:uMqy8q$xIHA.4876@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> The date and time was 6/6/2008 9:33 AM, and on a whim, Canuck57 pounded
> out on the keyboard:
>
>> "Terry R." <F1Com@NOSPAMpobox.com> wrote in message
>> news:OsCa7j%23xIHA.1504@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>> The date and time was 6/6/2008 8:05 AM, and on a whim, Canuck57 pounded
>>> out on the keyboard:
>>>
>>>> "Terry R." <F1Com@NOSPAMpobox.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:eO7lA04xIHA.4816@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>>
>>>>> Don't blame the economy on Vista's failure. The bottom line is there
>>>>> is no advantage for business to move to it. Vista isn't any more
>>>>> stable than XP and Vista doesn't run anything better than XP, so why
>>>>> waste the funds implementing the upgrades? "Badly supported"? I just
>>>>> think the manufacturers said, "Not going to bother".
>>>> Terry, well put. People are still buying PCs as their batteries die or
>>>> the system gets too old. There is also a rise in sales of systems like
>>>> Eee PC. That is, alternatives to the M$ OS are emerging. Even Apple is
>>>> doing great.
>>>>
>>>> From a business perspective, the ONLY reason to go Vista is if you are
>>>> a software house writing Vista code. After that, Vista offers a big
>>>> fat zero benefit. Just a hole to spend money with no ROI.
>>>>
>>>> I have yet to see one productive tangible thing you can do in Vista,
>>>> that you cannot do in XP. Even faster in XP given the same hardware.
>>> If MS would have made MSO2007 Vista only like they did with
>>> Office95/Win95, it probably would have helped. I have a few clients
>>> with networks I admin, and the powers that be always want the "latest &
>>> greatest". Those clients are slowly moving to MSO2007, but aren't
>>> interested in Vista. Not that they're gaining anything mind you (which
>>> they admit), they just like new toys. But even those clients have their
>>> default save settings set to "Office 2003" format in Word & Excel.
>>
>> I haven't used Microsoft Office for 3 years unless my employer paid for
>> it. I have been a Open Office ( http://www.openoffice.org/ ) user ever
>> since. Even at work, loaded it up and just had to remember to save as
>> Xp/W200x office or export to PDF. No one was any the wiser, as long as I
>> remembered not to attach the ODF (open document format) file.
>>
>> My guess is Open Office is growing in popularity. When over at friends
>> and relatives they ask, is it worth the $$$ to buy office as work will
>> not let me have a copy? I walk up to their PC, download and install Open
>> Office. Haven't had anyone remove it yet. Got a case of beer once.
>
> I don't use it either. I use WP & Lotus. But most of my network clients
> use it, and quite a few of those are non-profit, so they get MS products
> almost for free.

OK if they get it for free. Can't argue with that.
 
I would be interested in a roll-up of the system failures that led to those
particular dissatisfactions. I would think that given a large enough pool
you would likely have interesting specific commonalities beyond just "XP
Good Vista Bad".

--
Speaking for myself only.
See http://zachd.com/pss/pss.html for some helpful WMP info.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
--
"Not Me" <cargod01@bresnan.net> wrote in message
news:ONIwv76xIHA.5472@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>I have several warranty service calls a week, most people ask if we can
>replace Vista with XP so they can get back to work.
> I tell them to call the OEM and ask. As an agent of the OEM while doing
> warranty work, I can't/don't make promises or statements on the OEMs
> behalf.
>
> I also give them a card, in case there is a problem....
> I have had about 25% call me later and ask about a private service call to
> install XP.
 
Not Me wrote:
> I have several warranty service calls a week, most people ask if we can
> replace Vista with XP so they can get back to work.
> I tell them to call the OEM and ask. As an agent of the OEM while doing
> warranty work, I can't/don't make promises or statements on the OEMs behalf.
>
> I also give them a card, in case there is a problem....
> I have had about 25% call me later and ask about a private service call to
> install XP.
>
> "Shawn Skonberg" <jerky@live.com> wrote in message
> news:C1C7E818-ECF5-4BEF-977A-383EA40DB5DA@microsoft.com...
>> I have to say. I was on a couple of service call today and I said to
>> myself, "I wish this computer had Vista" That happens to me often while
>> fixing computers. I deal with a high volume of computers. Vista is way more
>> reliable then XP.
>>
>> "Rachel" <petlamb@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:OwjN0a1xIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> All you Vista bashers now need to turn into Windows bashers. Vista's
>>> reliability is going up while XP is going down.
>>>
>
>

If people went from a Toshiba DVD player to a Hitachi DVD player, they
would be just as confused as the switch from XP to Vista.

XP users are creatures of habit and repetitive use....they are used to
clicking the same menus/icons in the same order everyday.

Move a plant in a workers office...you will throw him off for days.

Change toilet tissue...it will be the talk of the office for 3 weeks.

People hate change ... and hate putting effort into learning new things.
 
"Terry R." <F1Com@NOSPAMpobox.com> wrote in message
news:eO7lA04xIHA.4816@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> I also dispute your claims that companies were rolling out XP gleefully
>> in the early days. Many companies could see no reason to use XP, and
>> still can't.

> Would you care to validate those comments? Businesses that hadn't already
> moved to W2k moved to XP quickly. The instability of Win9x was a no
> brainer in a move to XP. "And still can't" is a comment completely off
> the wall.

My friends and I regularly go to a place with their old internal systems
running Win3.1. It takes all sorts. =)

>Vista isn't any more stable than XP

What is your precise metric there? As a hobby I like increasing stability,
which mostly revolves around running around third party software makers and
getting them to fix bad memory usage and that sort of thing. But in the end
that benefits users of that software anywhere, so that's good for all.

Knowing precisely in what arenas you think Vista is less stable than XP
would be interesting to me. You know about the Windows Error Reporting
service, right? That's a great way to peek into the stability of any given
area and fix up issues in those spaces. It's been great watching issues,
internal or external, get sorted out from that list.

Cheers,
-Zach
--
Speaking for myself only.
See http://zachd.com/pss/pss.html for some helpful WMP info.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
 
The date and time was 6/6/2008 1:21 PM, and on a whim, zachd [MSFT]
pounded out on the keyboard:

> "Terry R." <F1Com@NOSPAMpobox.com> wrote in message
> news:eO7lA04xIHA.4816@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> I also dispute your claims that companies were rolling out XP gleefully
>>> in the early days. Many companies could see no reason to use XP, and
>>> still can't.
>
>> Would you care to validate those comments? Businesses that hadn't already
>> moved to W2k moved to XP quickly. The instability of Win9x was a no
>> brainer in a move to XP. "And still can't" is a comment completely off
>> the wall.
>
> My friends and I regularly go to a place with their old internal systems
> running Win3.1. It takes all sorts. =)
>
>> Vista isn't any more stable than XP
>
> What is your precise metric there? As a hobby I like increasing stability,
> which mostly revolves around running around third party software makers and
> getting them to fix bad memory usage and that sort of thing. But in the end
> that benefits users of that software anywhere, so that's good for all.
>
> Knowing precisely in what arenas you think Vista is less stable than XP
> would be interesting to me. You know about the Windows Error Reporting
> service, right? That's a great way to peek into the stability of any given
> area and fix up issues in those spaces. It's been great watching issues,
> internal or external, get sorted out from that list.
>
> Cheers,
> -Zach

I didn't say Vista was less stable. The person I replied to said Vista
was more stable, and I called him out on it. To me, OS stability is a
thing of the past, unless you've got buggy drivers or software, which is
pretty rare now days.

--
Terry R.

***Reply Note***
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.
 
The biggest complaints I hear about are older programs not working properly,
UAC, and things that are 'not where they belong'.
In many cases, I remove then reinstall the old software in such a way as to
avoid Vista's (on my opinion STUPID) refusal to allow writing to the program
files folder.
You call it security, I call it a pain in the backside.
Many end users just don't understand the how or why. They just install from
their CD (like they did on their old machine) and it doesn't work or doesn't
work properly.
And they don't care why, they just know it doesn't work and they don't want
to have to go buy all new software because MS changed Windows.
Believe it or not, most people don't care about menus sliding or shadowing
or any of the other eye candy that impedes performance.
In many cases, once I am done tweaking their Vista, they find it
'acceptable' but some still want XP back...because it just works!!!
Sometimes it is hard to bite my tongue because I personally dislike Vista's
look and feel.
I said that throughout BETA, but the designers obviously knew what they
wanted, no matter how bad they were told it was.
XP SP2 was as close to being 'done right' as any OS I have ever used.
Vista, even with SP1, misses that mark by a wide margin in my eyes.
I have no plans to ever allow Vista, in it's present form, on my LAN.
I only have a couple hundred machines, but the compatibility degradations
built into Vista make it unworkable to integrate it into the mix.
I don't have the time to waste setting up all the extra stuff Vista requires
to make sharing/printing/ etc work in a mixed network or retraining users.
I have extended the upgrade cycle on the XP machines by 3 years and have
converted the older (P2/P3) machines to Linux rather than buy new hardware
with Vista.
If W7 doesn't meet my expectations, all the new systems (now scheduled for
Q1, 2010) will be running something else.
A new OS should be WOW, I like that, not WOW, what IDIOTS designed that!

And yes, I am very careful to be sure to give no clue here as to my BETA ID.

"zachd [MSFT]" <zachd@nomailplz.online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:%23tbkhEByIHA.2340@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>
> I would be interested in a roll-up of the system failures that led to
> those particular dissatisfactions. I would think that given a large
> enough pool you would likely have interesting specific commonalities
> beyond just "XP Good Vista Bad".
>
> --
> Speaking for myself only.
> See http://zachd.com/pss/pss.html for some helpful WMP info.
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> rights.
> --
> "Not Me" <cargod01@bresnan.net> wrote in message
> news:ONIwv76xIHA.5472@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>I have several warranty service calls a week, most people ask if we can
>>replace Vista with XP so they can get back to work.
>> I tell them to call the OEM and ask. As an agent of the OEM while doing
>> warranty work, I can't/don't make promises or statements on the OEMs
>> behalf.
>>
>> I also give them a card, in case there is a problem....
>> I have had about 25% call me later and ask about a private service call
>> to install XP.
>
 
you may call it stupid - but there is a reason why other operating
systems have been using this same methodology for over a decade.

Write access to the program directory is a notoriously *bad* thing -
don't believe me? In 1996 or so I had a gateway with Windows 95 - and a
dinky 200 MB HD. I somehow got the lizard virus - which went and
infected my command.com and then proceeded to infect every executable
files I had on my system every time it was accessed.

Needless to say, when I finally figured out I had it and used NAV 4.5
to remove it, it only found around 3000+ files infected.


That is the kind of behavior you get with write access to the program
files directory.

You blame Vista - I blame the program writers who did not follow a very
good program model and wrote to an area that should (rightfully so) have
been off limits to every day use since the very beginning.


Not Me739433 Wrote:
> The biggest complaints I hear about are older programs not working
> properly,
> UAC, and things that are 'not where they belong'.
> In many cases, I remove then reinstall the old software in such a way
> as to
> avoid Vista's (on my opinion STUPID) refusal to allow writing to the
> program
> files folder.
> You call it security, I call it a pain in the backside.
> Many end users just don't understand the how or why. They just install
> from
> their CD (like they did on their old machine) and it doesn't work or
> doesn't
> work properly.
> And they don't care why, they just know it doesn't work and they don't
> want
> to have to go buy all new software because MS changed Windows.
> Believe it or not, most people don't care about menus sliding or
> shadowing
> or any of the other eye candy that impedes performance.
> In many cases, once I am done tweaking their Vista, they find it
> 'acceptable' but some still want XP back...because it just works!!!
> Sometimes it is hard to bite my tongue because I personally dislike
> Vista's
> look and feel.
> I said that throughout BETA, but the designers obviously knew what they
> wanted, no matter how bad they were told it was.
> XP SP2 was as close to being 'done right' as any OS I have ever used.
> Vista, even with SP1, misses that mark by a wide margin in my eyes.
> I have no plans to ever allow Vista, in it's present form, on my LAN.
> I only have a couple hundred machines, but the compatibility
> degradations
> built into Vista make it unworkable to integrate it into the mix.
> I don't have the time to waste setting up all the extra stuff Vista
> requires
> to make sharing/printing/ etc work in a mixed network or retraining
> users.
> I have extended the upgrade cycle on the XP machines by 3 years and
> have
> converted the older (P2/P3) machines to Linux rather than buy new
> hardware
> with Vista.
> If W7 doesn't meet my expectations, all the new systems (now scheduled
> for
> Q1, 2010) will be running something else.
> A new OS should be WOW, I like that, not WOW, what IDIOTS designed
> that!
>
> And yes, I am very careful to be sure to give no clue here as to my
> BETA ID.
>
> "zachd [MSFT]" <zachd@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:%23tbkhEByIHA.2340@xxxxxx> > >
> > >
> > > I would be interested in a roll-up of the system failures that led to
> > > those particular dissatisfactions. I would think that given a large
> > > enough pool you would likely have interesting specific commonalities
> > > beyond just "XP Good Vista Bad".
> > >
> > > --
> > > Speaking for myself only.
> > > See http://zachd.com/pss/pss.html for some helpful WMP info.
> > > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> > > rights.
> > > --
> > > "Not Me" <cargod01@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> > > news:ONIwv76xIHA.5472@xxxxxx> > > > >
> > > >>I have several warranty service calls a week, most people ask if we
> > > can
> > > >>replace Vista with XP so they can get back to work.
> > > >> I tell them to call the OEM and ask. As an agent of the OEM while
> > > doing
> > > >> warranty work, I can't/don't make promises or statements on the OEMs
> > > >> behalf.
> > > >>
> > > >> I also give them a card, in case there is a problem....
> > > >> I have had about 25% call me later and ask about a private service
> > > call
> > > >> to install XP.> > > > > > >


--
johngalt

Core 2 Quad 6600 G0 CPU
Tuniq Tower 120 LFB Cooler
eVGA 780i Motherboard
OCZ ModXStream 780W SLI Ready PSU
eVGA 8800 GTS 512 KO edition GA
2 X 2GB OCZ PC2-8000 ReaperX HPC RAM
2 X Seagate 500 GB 7200.10 RPM 32MB Cache HDs
WD 250 GB 7200 RPM 8 MB Cache HD
SONY DRU-830A Dual Layer IDE DVD burner
Hauppage WinTV 1800 HVR TV Tuner card with Remote
ThermalTake Armour case
 
NAV didn't catch it before it was installed?
Having UAC is no substitute for having a good AV or AS program.
I have already had to cleanup spyware on machines with UAC that people just
clicked through to get it out of their way.
The idea may be sound, the implementation isn't.

--
A Professional Amateur...If anyone knew it all, none of would be here!
CarGodZeroOne@hotmail.com
Change Alpha to Numeric to reply
"johngalt" <guest@unknown-email.com> wrote in message
news:1ea2d2dd9541b9394d350a6107f0b40d@nntp-gateway.com...
>
> you may call it stupid - but there is a reason why other operating
> systems have been using this same methodology for over a decade.
>
> Write access to the program directory is a notoriously *bad* thing -
> don't believe me? In 1996 or so I had a gateway with Windows 95 - and a
> dinky 200 MB HD. I somehow got the lizard virus - which went and
> infected my command.com and then proceeded to infect every executable
> files I had on my system every time it was accessed.
>
> Needless to say, when I finally figured out I had it and used NAV 4.5
> to remove it, it only found around 3000+ files infected.
>
>
> That is the kind of behavior you get with write access to the program
> files directory.
>
> You blame Vista - I blame the program writers who did not follow a very
> good program model and wrote to an area that should (rightfully so) have
> been off limits to every day use since the very beginning.
>
>
> Not Me739433 Wrote:
>> The biggest complaints I hear about are older programs not working
>> properly,
>> UAC, and things that are 'not where they belong'.
>> In many cases, I remove then reinstall the old software in such a way
>> as to
>> avoid Vista's (on my opinion STUPID) refusal to allow writing to the
>> program
>> files folder.
>> You call it security, I call it a pain in the backside.
>> Many end users just don't understand the how or why. They just install
>> from
>> their CD (like they did on their old machine) and it doesn't work or
>> doesn't
>> work properly.
>> And they don't care why, they just know it doesn't work and they don't
>> want
>> to have to go buy all new software because MS changed Windows.
>> Believe it or not, most people don't care about menus sliding or
>> shadowing
>> or any of the other eye candy that impedes performance.
>> In many cases, once I am done tweaking their Vista, they find it
>> 'acceptable' but some still want XP back...because it just works!!!
>> Sometimes it is hard to bite my tongue because I personally dislike
>> Vista's
>> look and feel.
>> I said that throughout BETA, but the designers obviously knew what they
>> wanted, no matter how bad they were told it was.
>> XP SP2 was as close to being 'done right' as any OS I have ever used.
>> Vista, even with SP1, misses that mark by a wide margin in my eyes.
>> I have no plans to ever allow Vista, in it's present form, on my LAN.
>> I only have a couple hundred machines, but the compatibility
>> degradations
>> built into Vista make it unworkable to integrate it into the mix.
>> I don't have the time to waste setting up all the extra stuff Vista
>> requires
>> to make sharing/printing/ etc work in a mixed network or retraining
>> users.
>> I have extended the upgrade cycle on the XP machines by 3 years and
>> have
>> converted the older (P2/P3) machines to Linux rather than buy new
>> hardware
>> with Vista.
>> If W7 doesn't meet my expectations, all the new systems (now scheduled
>> for
>> Q1, 2010) will be running something else.
>> A new OS should be WOW, I like that, not WOW, what IDIOTS designed
>> that!
>>
>> And yes, I am very careful to be sure to give no clue here as to my
>> BETA ID.
>>
>> "zachd [MSFT]" <zachd@xxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:%23tbkhEByIHA.2340@xxxxxx> > >
>> > >
>> > > I would be interested in a roll-up of the system failures that led to
>> > > those particular dissatisfactions. I would think that given a large
>> > > enough pool you would likely have interesting specific commonalities
>> > > beyond just "XP Good Vista Bad".
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Speaking for myself only.
>> > > See http://zachd.com/pss/pss.html for some helpful WMP info.
>> > > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
>> > > rights.
>> > > --
>> > > "Not Me" <cargod01@xxxxxx> wrote in message
>> > > news:ONIwv76xIHA.5472@xxxxxx> > > > >
>> > > >>I have several warranty service calls a week, most people ask if we
>> > > can
>> > > >>replace Vista with XP so they can get back to work.
>> > > >> I tell them to call the OEM and ask. As an agent of the OEM while
>> > > doing
>> > > >> warranty work, I can't/don't make promises or statements on the
>> > > >> OEMs
>> > > >> behalf.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> I also give them a card, in case there is a problem....
>> > > >> I have had about 25% call me later and ask about a private service
>> > > call
>> > > >> to install XP.> > > > > > >
>
>
> --
> johngalt
>
> Core 2 Quad 6600 G0 CPU
> Tuniq Tower 120 LFB Cooler
> eVGA 780i Motherboard
> OCZ ModXStream 780W SLI Ready PSU
> eVGA 8800 GTS 512 KO edition GA
> 2 X 2GB OCZ PC2-8000 ReaperX HPC RAM
> 2 X Seagate 500 GB 7200.10 RPM 32MB Cache HDs
> WD 250 GB 7200 RPM 8 MB Cache HD
> SONY DRU-830A Dual Layer IDE DVD burner
> Hauppage WinTV 1800 HVR TV Tuner card with Remote
> ThermalTake Armour case
 
I forgot to mention, command.com is not in the program files folder.

"Not Me" <cargodZeroOne@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%236uBS7PyIHA.2340@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> NAV didn't catch it before it was installed?
> Having UAC is no substitute for having a good AV or AS program.
> I have already had to cleanup spyware on machines with UAC that people
> just clicked through to get it out of their way.
> The idea may be sound, the implementation isn't.
>
> --
> A Professional Amateur...If anyone knew it all, none of would be here!
> CarGodZeroOne@hotmail.com
> Change Alpha to Numeric to reply
> "johngalt" <guest@unknown-email.com> wrote in message
> news:1ea2d2dd9541b9394d350a6107f0b40d@nntp-gateway.com...
>>
>> you may call it stupid - but there is a reason why other operating
>> systems have been using this same methodology for over a decade.
>>
>> Write access to the program directory is a notoriously *bad* thing -
>> don't believe me? In 1996 or so I had a gateway with Windows 95 - and a
>> dinky 200 MB HD. I somehow got the lizard virus - which went and
>> infected my command.com and then proceeded to infect every executable
>> files I had on my system every time it was accessed.
>>
>> Needless to say, when I finally figured out I had it and used NAV 4.5
>> to remove it, it only found around 3000+ files infected.
>>
>>
>> That is the kind of behavior you get with write access to the program
>> files directory.
>>
>> You blame Vista - I blame the program writers who did not follow a very
>> good program model and wrote to an area that should (rightfully so) have
>> been off limits to every day use since the very beginning.
>>
>>
>> Not Me739433 Wrote:
>>> The biggest complaints I hear about are older programs not working
>>> properly,
>>> UAC, and things that are 'not where they belong'.
>>> In many cases, I remove then reinstall the old software in such a way
>>> as to
>>> avoid Vista's (on my opinion STUPID) refusal to allow writing to the
>>> program
>>> files folder.
>>> You call it security, I call it a pain in the backside.
>>> Many end users just don't understand the how or why. They just install
>>> from
>>> their CD (like they did on their old machine) and it doesn't work or
>>> doesn't
>>> work properly.
>>> And they don't care why, they just know it doesn't work and they don't
>>> want
>>> to have to go buy all new software because MS changed Windows.
>>> Believe it or not, most people don't care about menus sliding or
>>> shadowing
>>> or any of the other eye candy that impedes performance.
>>> In many cases, once I am done tweaking their Vista, they find it
>>> 'acceptable' but some still want XP back...because it just works!!!
>>> Sometimes it is hard to bite my tongue because I personally dislike
>>> Vista's
>>> look and feel.
>>> I said that throughout BETA, but the designers obviously knew what they
>>> wanted, no matter how bad they were told it was.
>>> XP SP2 was as close to being 'done right' as any OS I have ever used.
>>> Vista, even with SP1, misses that mark by a wide margin in my eyes.
>>> I have no plans to ever allow Vista, in it's present form, on my LAN.
>>> I only have a couple hundred machines, but the compatibility
>>> degradations
>>> built into Vista make it unworkable to integrate it into the mix.
>>> I don't have the time to waste setting up all the extra stuff Vista
>>> requires
>>> to make sharing/printing/ etc work in a mixed network or retraining
>>> users.
>>> I have extended the upgrade cycle on the XP machines by 3 years and
>>> have
>>> converted the older (P2/P3) machines to Linux rather than buy new
>>> hardware
>>> with Vista.
>>> If W7 doesn't meet my expectations, all the new systems (now scheduled
>>> for
>>> Q1, 2010) will be running something else.
>>> A new OS should be WOW, I like that, not WOW, what IDIOTS designed
>>> that!
>>>
>>> And yes, I am very careful to be sure to give no clue here as to my
>>> BETA ID.
>>>
>>> "zachd [MSFT]" <zachd@xxxxxx> wrote in message
>>> news:%23tbkhEByIHA.2340@xxxxxx> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > I would be interested in a roll-up of the system failures that led
>>> > > to
>>> > > those particular dissatisfactions. I would think that given a large
>>> > > enough pool you would likely have interesting specific commonalities
>>> > > beyond just "XP Good Vista Bad".
>>> > >
>>> > > --
>>> > > Speaking for myself only.
>>> > > See http://zachd.com/pss/pss.html for some helpful WMP info.
>>> > > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
>>> > > rights.
>>> > > --
>>> > > "Not Me" <cargod01@xxxxxx> wrote in message
>>> > > news:ONIwv76xIHA.5472@xxxxxx> > > > >
>>> > > >>I have several warranty service calls a week, most people ask if
>>> > > >>we
>>> > > can
>>> > > >>replace Vista with XP so they can get back to work.
>>> > > >> I tell them to call the OEM and ask. As an agent of the OEM
>>> > > >> while
>>> > > doing
>>> > > >> warranty work, I can't/don't make promises or statements on the
>>> > > >> OEMs
>>> > > >> behalf.
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> I also give them a card, in case there is a problem....
>>> > > >> I have had about 25% call me later and ask about a private
>>> > > >> service
>>> > > call
>>> > > >> to install XP.> > > > > > >
>>
>>
>> --
>> johngalt
>>
>> Core 2 Quad 6600 G0 CPU
>> Tuniq Tower 120 LFB Cooler
>> eVGA 780i Motherboard
>> OCZ ModXStream 780W SLI Ready PSU
>> eVGA 8800 GTS 512 KO edition GA
>> 2 X 2GB OCZ PC2-8000 ReaperX HPC RAM
>> 2 X Seagate 500 GB 7200.10 RPM 32MB Cache HDs
>> WD 250 GB 7200 RPM 8 MB Cache HD
>> SONY DRU-830A Dual Layer IDE DVD burner
>> Hauppage WinTV 1800 HVR TV Tuner card with Remote
>> ThermalTake Armour case
>
>
 
Back
Top