Re: Linux Weaknesses

  • Thread starter Thread starter Moshe Goldfarb.
  • Start date Start date

>
> I have no choice but to use Lotus Notes. I tried getting Notes working with
> wine about a year ago and it was a nightmare. Words like "difficult" only
> begin to describe the experience.
>

I tried installing Lotus Notes under windows itself, which it is written
for, and it was a nightmare. So whats your problem. So I cant accept your
point that Lotus Notes under Linux is bad. Sorry.
 

>
> Well computers COULD make live an awful lot easier!
> I think that is the purpose of computers in the first place,
> keeping your brain cells working isn't a very good argument
> for Linux here.
> Linux could do a whole lot better if those programmers would listen for
> once to people which simply want to use a computer instead of learning to
> program!
> Starting to listen to well motivated critism would help a lot too.
> So IMHO !! linux could have been a 100 times better by now with
> less then 1% of the effort which is spent on all linux flavors.
>
> Edmund


I have to agree with you. There is too much in fighting in the linux
community. Example is the two camps of gnome and KDE. Plus there is over
500 flavours of linux.

If everyone banged their heads together to maybe promote the top 3-4
Distros, and got the hardware makers to port more drivers, then I think
linux would take off. Oh and we need better software, maybe port over
windows based software, like SAP, Sage etc, get the big companies in the
uk and usa using linux.
 
"Rick" <none@nomail.com> stated in post
1JydnWcamsfVrQrVnZ2dnUVZ_qTinZ2d@supernews.com on 8/4/08 9:37 AM:

> On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 16:31:56 +0000, Edmund wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:54:44 +0100, Confused Donkey wrote:
>>
>>> If it wasn't for Unix, you wouldn't be online AT ALL. Microsoft can't
>>>> even run on the net without Unix/Linux. Nothing digital runs without
>>>> it - cell phone servers, dns servers, electric meter, gas meter, water
>>>> meter, our Satellite and much more than meets the eye. If it wasn't
>>>> for Unix/Linux, you couldn't have made such a stupid post.
>>>>
>>>> WorthyOfUrAttn
>>>
>>>
>>> I totally agree. Ive used windows since win 3.xx. Started using
>>> computers in 1982 (the bbc micro, speccy). Windows is OK if you want it
>>> to just run, and your not interested in keeping the brain cells working
>>> by learning, as windows makes you lazy.
>>
>> Well computers COULD make live an awful lot easier! I think that is the
>> purpose of computers in the first place, keeping your brain cells
>> working isn't a very good argument for Linux here.
>> Linux could do a whole lot better if those programmers would listen for
>> once to people which simply want to use a computer instead of learning
>> to program!
>> Starting to listen to well motivated critism would help a lot too. So
>> IMHO !! linux could have been a 100 times better by now with less then
>> 1% of the effort which is spent on all linux flavors.
>>
>> Edmund
>
> By percentage, very little effort goes into distro packaging, as opposed
> to the effort that goes into the app/utility development.
>
>
Does it not depend on the distro? Seems a lot of work goes into some of
them... I have pointed you to comments by Shuttleworth that show how
dedicated he is to making a distro that is more consistent and this, as you
have said, "better for the user".


--
Computers are incredibly fast, accurate, and stupid: humans are incredibly
slow, inaccurate and brilliant together they are powerful beyond
imagination. - attributed to Albert Einstein, likely apocryphal
 
Re: Vista ME Weaknesses

I don't have the energy.

--
RonB
"There's a story there...somewhere"
 
John J wrote:
> "Confused Donkey" <confused@wartydog.invalid> wrote in message
> news:pan.2008.08.04.15.47.06.698526@wartydog.invalid...
>> On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 11:28:48 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:54:44 +0100, Confused Donkey wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>
>>> It has nothing to do with being lazy, it's all about using the
>>> APPLICATIONS.
>>
>> It is being lazy. People want it to just work and dont give a rats arse
>> about the workings. Hence why car mechanics rip you off for bucket loads
>> of money, because the end user is tooo dumb/stupid/ lazy to learn the
>> basics of where the oil goes, the water etc.
>>
>>>
>>>> Linux on the other hand, makes you learn.
>>>
>>> Great if you are into that kind of stuff. My Doctor, accountant,cleaning
>>> lady,etc want to run their business and they don't care how a computer
>>> works.
>>
>> This is why they use windows. Plus doctors are VERY busy people, they
>> dont
>> have the time to learn comp, their job is people.
>>
>> Isnt that what I actually said ? Right product at the right time ? Do you
>> like repeating people with dribble ?
>>
> So I fail to see the problem.
>>
> Very funny, Confused Donkey, your name says it all. MG has it exactly
> correct, most people use Windows because it works out of the box. Users
> don't have to figure out arcane languages to get their wireless working,
> or use all the other applications, or tinker with the OS just to use the
> applications. I know it's fun to do so but few people want to spend
> this kind of time and energy. AS MG says, they just want to use the
> applications. Contrary to your belief, for the vast majority of users,
> the object of computing is not tinkering with the OS, it is using the
> applications.
>
> If any of the Linux distros worked as completely as does Windows out of
> the box many more people would use it. But it doesn't. I know I would,
> and I've tried a number of them.
>
> John



The Linux distros that I have tried work right off the cds. Never had to
figure out how to open the box. When something does go wrong it it much
easier to find the answer and fix it myself than it is in Windows.
I just install Hardy Heron on a new Vista machine that my daughter and
her husband have. She uses Windows at work every day. (administrative
assistant at a lawyers office) Her husband is not the brightest bulb on
the block when it comes to computers as he has never used them. He was
happy as he finds Hardy Heron much easier to learn than Vista. My
daughter admits that she has to ditch Windows habits to learn Linux bvut
they have not booted into Vista since I put Linux on.
If my son-in-law can learn it you have to be a very dim bulb to not be
able to use it as he is only about 5watts. )
caver1
 
caver1 wrote:
> John J wrote:
>> "Confused Donkey" <confused@wartydog.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:pan.2008.08.04.15.47.06.698526@wartydog.invalid...
>>> On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 11:28:48 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:54:44 +0100, Confused Donkey wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> It has nothing to do with being lazy, it's all about using the
>>>> APPLICATIONS.
>>>
>>> It is being lazy. People want it to just work and dont give a rats arse
>>> about the workings. Hence why car mechanics rip you off for bucket loads
>>> of money, because the end user is tooo dumb/stupid/ lazy to learn the
>>> basics of where the oil goes, the water etc.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Linux on the other hand, makes you learn.
>>>>
>>>> Great if you are into that kind of stuff. My Doctor,
>>>> accountant,cleaning
>>>> lady,etc want to run their business and they don't care how a computer
>>>> works.
>>>
>>> This is why they use windows. Plus doctors are VERY busy people, they
>>> dont
>>> have the time to learn comp, their job is people.
>>>
>>> Isnt that what I actually said ? Right product at the right time ? Do
>>> you
>>> like repeating people with dribble ?
>>>
>> So I fail to see the problem.
>>>
>> Very funny, Confused Donkey, your name says it all. MG has it
>> exactly correct, most people use Windows because it works out of the
>> box. Users don't have to figure out arcane languages to get their
>> wireless working, or use all the other applications, or tinker with
>> the OS just to use the applications. I know it's fun to do so but few
>> people want to spend this kind of time and energy. AS MG says, they
>> just want to use the applications. Contrary to your belief, for the
>> vast majority of users, the object of computing is not tinkering with
>> the OS, it is using the applications.
>>
>> If any of the Linux distros worked as completely as does Windows out
>> of the box many more people would use it. But it doesn't. I know I
>> would, and I've tried a number of them.
>>
>> John
>
>
>
> The Linux distros that I have tried work right off the cds. Never had to
> figure out how to open the box. When something does go wrong it it much
> easier to find the answer and fix it myself than it is in Windows.
> I just install Hardy Heron on a new Vista machine that my daughter and
> her husband have. She uses Windows at work every day. (administrative
> assistant at a lawyers office) Her husband is not the brightest bulb on
> the block when it comes to computers as he has never used them. He was
> happy as he finds Hardy Heron much easier to learn than Vista. My
> daughter admits that she has to ditch Windows habits to learn Linux bvut
> they have not booted into Vista since I put Linux on.
> If my son-in-law can learn it you have to be a very dim bulb to not be
> able to use it as he is only about 5watts. )
> caver1

This what Microsoft need to stay aware of. Linux has become a viable
alternative for anybody to use except where Windows clearly has the
upper hand, that is games.

As mentioned "Habits" are a large part of getting people from any system
to any other.

Example - and I do not suggest anyone do this - but say you went into
your average company office and swapped around all the desktop icons.
Nothing drastic or harmful, just move them around on the screen. How
many of those yellow stick up notes with "How To's" on them would
suddenly become so valuable they had to be found at all costs?

Many offices don't use the operating system much at all, they exist on
post it notes.

So the switch from one OS to another is more a matter of changing habits
than anything else, how "Smart" a user is or how skilled at their job
they are really is not the issue.

It is laughable to read some of the criticisms of Linux that are just
plain wrong.

But when it is actually placed in front of people and friends and family
get to play with it they see it is viable and so it is a further risk to
Microsoft. A lost sale AND a free ad for Linux.

Look how car ads are changing. Used to be they listed all the extras you
got, cup holders, folding seats, better equipped than model xxx etc.
Now, with the price of gas the ads quote "Cheap to buy" or "Cheap to
run". One time "Cheap" was a bad thing to say, now it is a good thing to
say, just because gas prices, energy prices and as a result many other
prices have gone up so much.
 
On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 02:41:51 -0500, Charlie Tame wrote:

> caver1 wrote:
>> John J wrote:
>>> "Confused Donkey" <confused@wartydog.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:pan.2008.08.04.15.47.06.698526@wartydog.invalid...
>>>> On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 11:28:48 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:54:44 +0100, Confused Donkey wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It has nothing to do with being lazy, it's all about using the
>>>>> APPLICATIONS.
>>>>
>>>> It is being lazy. People want it to just work and dont give a rats arse
>>>> about the workings. Hence why car mechanics rip you off for bucket loads
>>>> of money, because the end user is tooo dumb/stupid/ lazy to learn the
>>>> basics of where the oil goes, the water etc.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Linux on the other hand, makes you learn.
>>>>>
>>>>> Great if you are into that kind of stuff. My Doctor,
>>>>> accountant,cleaning
>>>>> lady,etc want to run their business and they don't care how a computer
>>>>> works.
>>>>
>>>> This is why they use windows. Plus doctors are VERY busy people, they
>>>> dont
>>>> have the time to learn comp, their job is people.
>>>>
>>>> Isnt that what I actually said ? Right product at the right time ? Do
>>>> you
>>>> like repeating people with dribble ?
>>>>
>>> So I fail to see the problem.
>>>>
>>> Very funny, Confused Donkey, your name says it all. MG has it
>>> exactly correct, most people use Windows because it works out of the
>>> box. Users don't have to figure out arcane languages to get their
>>> wireless working, or use all the other applications, or tinker with
>>> the OS just to use the applications. I know it's fun to do so but few
>>> people want to spend this kind of time and energy. AS MG says, they
>>> just want to use the applications. Contrary to your belief, for the
>>> vast majority of users, the object of computing is not tinkering with
>>> the OS, it is using the applications.
>>>
>>> If any of the Linux distros worked as completely as does Windows out
>>> of the box many more people would use it. But it doesn't. I know I
>>> would, and I've tried a number of them.
>>>
>>> John
>>
>>
>>
>> The Linux distros that I have tried work right off the cds. Never had to
>> figure out how to open the box. When something does go wrong it it much
>> easier to find the answer and fix it myself than it is in Windows.
>> I just install Hardy Heron on a new Vista machine that my daughter and
>> her husband have. She uses Windows at work every day. (administrative
>> assistant at a lawyers office) Her husband is not the brightest bulb on
>> the block when it comes to computers as he has never used them. He was
>> happy as he finds Hardy Heron much easier to learn than Vista. My
>> daughter admits that she has to ditch Windows habits to learn Linux bvut
>> they have not booted into Vista since I put Linux on.
>> If my son-in-law can learn it you have to be a very dim bulb to not be
>> able to use it as he is only about 5watts. )
>> caver1
>
> This what Microsoft need to stay aware of. Linux has become a viable
> alternative for anybody to use except where Windows clearly has the
> upper hand, that is games.
>
> As mentioned "Habits" are a large part of getting people from any system
> to any other.

Unfortunately people are very much creatures of habit where computers are
concerned. They dont want to know how it works, just that it does. They
just want to surf the web, send an email to aunty mildred, write a letter
and thats it.

Plus when you buy a PC, it already has MS installed, so a lot of people
think that MS & Computers are one and the same.

If your someone who has a home, family, full time job, you have diff
priorities to learning a new system. Im lucky where I have a great
fascination for learning about PC's, just like a lot of you people. But
we're in the minority, most windows users like the simplicity, it works
why muck about with it.

When they get home from work they want to chill out, maybe go to the pub
for a pint, let the kids go kick a football about a bit, and just wind
down especially with todays financial climate. Whats more important ?
Keeping a job to keep a roof over your heads, or spending a lot of time
relearning an Operating System.

If Linux wants to get more market share then they need to make Linux
easier to use, better support out of the box, maybe take ideas from
windows so you dont need to use the terminal. I have an idea that Ubuntu
is going this way, the same as Linspire/Freespire/Linux XP etc, etc. Their
all trying to make the switch easier.

Any comments / ideas welcome.
 
In alt.os.linux.ubuntu, John J had the audacity to say that:

> Very funny, Confused Donkey, your name says it all. MG has it exactly
> correct, most people use Windows because it works out of the box. Users
> don't have to figure out arcane languages to get their wireless working, or
> use all the other applications, or tinker with the OS just to use the
> applications. I know it's fun to do so but few people want to spend this
> kind of time and energy. AS MG says, they just want to use the
> applications. Contrary to your belief, for the vast majority of users, the
> object of computing is not tinkering with the OS, it is using the
> applications.
>
> If any of the Linux distros worked as completely as does Windows out of the
> box many more people would use it. But it doesn't. I know I would, and
> I've tried a number of them.
>
> John
>

Tell that to the multi-billion dollar computer setup industry: almost every
major computer retailer has them now. You know, the guys that come to your
house, setup the wireless, install the drivers, etc.

If it's so easy, why the need for such hand-holding? My father, a diy'er his
whole life, is completely at a loss with his Windows system, and has to call
in a *helper* every now and again to get things going.

Intuitive? Yes, if you've dabbled with computers for your entire adult life,
and much of your youth.

Otherwise, good luck the next time your browser is on auto-pilot and you've
got 100 instances of MSIE littering the screen, and that app that worked
yesterday now throws up a cryptic message resembling Cyrillian, you are
being bombarded with trojan horse attachments, and the computer doesn't run
any faster than the one it replaced.

But, even admitting that MS products are designed to give as few problems
initially as possible in order to lessen the load on customer service and
provide a good *first impression.* Ease of use is not a good predictor of
quality. In most fields of endeavor, once you get past a certain point in
quality, convenience has to be sacrificed in order to get the hard-won gains
in performance at that high level.

IOW, you get what you put in to it. Anyone can make a toy that moves around
by itself. The trick is to get it to perform *real work*. For this, you
want a *real* operating system, not a TV that accepts input, which is what
essentially Windows and Mac are.

*R* *H*

--
"His one secret thought, became like a chain, binding down his spirit, and,
like a serpent, gnawing into his heart and he was transformed into a sad
and downcast, yet irritable man."

Nathaniel Hawthorne, "Roger Malvin's Burial"
 
On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 11:45:04 -0500, JEDIDIAH wrote:

> On 2008-08-04, Edmund <nomail@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:54:44 +0100, Confused Donkey wrote:
>>
>>> If it wasn't for Unix, you wouldn't be online AT ALL. Microsoft can't
>>>> even run on the net without Unix/Linux. Nothing digital runs without
>>>> it - cell phone servers, dns servers, electric meter, gas meter,
>>>> water meter, our Satellite and much more than meets the eye. If it
>>>> wasn't for Unix/Linux, you couldn't have made such a stupid post.
>>>>
>>>> WorthyOfUrAttn
>>>
>>>
>>> I totally agree. Ive used windows since win 3.xx. Started using
>>> computers in 1982 (the bbc micro, speccy). Windows is OK if you want
>>> it to just run, and your not interested in keeping the brain cells
>>> working by learning, as windows makes you lazy.
>>
>> Well computers COULD make live an awful lot easier! I think that is the
>> purpose of computers in the first place, keeping your brain cells
>> working isn't a very good argument for Linux here.
>> Linux could do a whole lot better if those programmers would listen for
>> once to people which simply want to use a computer instead of learning
>> to program!
>
> Programming is nothing more than telling the computer EXACTLY what you
> want done. It can be done at a very highly technical level very close to
> the hardware or it can be done at a higher level layer in a more
> abstract manner.

I know what programming is sir, thank you very much.
programming is a whole lot more then telling the computer exactly
what to do. For starters one need to learn a very non logic
language, something a computer can understand!
Even the higher level stuff doesn't work very handy at all.
Besides that your reply is an example of denying any kind of
linux problem.

Edmund
 
Edmund wrote:

> On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 11:45:04 -0500, JEDIDIAH wrote:
>
>> On 2008-08-04, Edmund <nomail@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:54:44 +0100, Confused Donkey wrote:
>>>
>>>> If it wasn't for Unix, you wouldn't be online AT ALL. Microsoft can't
>>>>> even run on the net without Unix/Linux. Nothing digital runs without
>>>>> it - cell phone servers, dns servers, electric meter, gas meter,
>>>>> water meter, our Satellite and much more than meets the eye. If it
>>>>> wasn't for Unix/Linux, you couldn't have made such a stupid post.
>>>>>
>>>>> WorthyOfUrAttn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I totally agree. Ive used windows since win 3.xx. Started using
>>>> computers in 1982 (the bbc micro, speccy). Windows is OK if you want
>>>> it to just run, and your not interested in keeping the brain cells
>>>> working by learning, as windows makes you lazy.
>>>
>>> Well computers COULD make live an awful lot easier! I think that is the
>>> purpose of computers in the first place, keeping your brain cells
>>> working isn't a very good argument for Linux here.
>>> Linux could do a whole lot better if those programmers would listen for
>>> once to people which simply want to use a computer instead of learning
>>> to program!
>>
>> Programming is nothing more than telling the computer EXACTLY what you
>> want done. It can be done at a very highly technical level very close to
>> the hardware or it can be done at a higher level layer in a more
>> abstract manner.
>
> I know what programming is sir, thank you very much.
> programming is a whole lot more then telling the computer exactly
> what to do.

Exactly. That is why he gave (simplified, for the likes of you) examples of
programming.

> For starters one need to learn a very non logic
> language, something a computer can understand!

Please explain, in detail, what you would describe as "non logic" in
assembly language. Or C, for that matter

> Even the higher level stuff doesn't work very handy at all.

Well, nobody claimed that everyone (and that would obviously include you)
could program with high-level languages

> Besides that your reply is an example of denying any kind of
> linux problem.
>
Interesting claim, as he not even did mention "linux" in any shape or form

Might it be that you are a typical windows using retard, having an enormous
(and deserved) inferiority complex?

--
A NT server can be run by idiots and usually is
 
Back
Top