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Re: I Think They Need You In The Ubuntu Camp - Just FYI

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 23:33:03 +0000, NoStop wrote:

> Stephan Rose wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:23:21 -0800, Frank wrote:
>>
>>> Alias wrote:
>>>
>>>> Scott Roberts wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> Can you list the improvements from 7.04 to 7.10 to show that
>>>>>>> improvements
>>>>>>> are being made?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's some you dimwit:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) compiz comes installed
>>>>>> 2) AppArmor, a security framework adds even more security to Ubuntu
>>>>>> 3) Gnome 2.20
>>>>>> 4) a backup feature for Evolution
>>>>>> 5) more functionality in the gnome screensaver when a screen is
>>>>>> locked 6) syntax highlighting in gedit 7) new applet called
>>>>>> Appearance
>>>>>> 8) one click install of needed codecs when a multimedia file is
>>>>>> encountered
>>>>>> and the codec is required
>>>>>> 9) easy proprietary driver installation if desired 10) improved
>>>>>> plug'n play configuration for printers 11) automatic firmware
>>>>>> install for Broadcom cards 12) for laptop users, full suupoort for
>>>>>> external VGA 13) automatic read/write to NTFS drives 14) desktop
>>>>>> search 15) automatic installation of popular Firefox plugins
>>>>>> validated by Ubuntu
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If ubuntu keeps up this blistering pace, it will match Win95 in no
>>>>> time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Full support for external VGA and ability to read/write NTFS. That's
>>>>> awesome.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Vista can't read Ubuntu files and probably never will be able to.
>>>>
>>>> Alias
>>>
>>> Who cares?
>>
>>
>> Seeing how I dual boot between windows and linux, I do!
>>
>>
> There is a Windoze driver that allows it to read ext3 filesystems. But
> why would anyone want to do that?
>

Not usable though, at least not for me. It can't deal with utf-8 encoded
directories at which point in time it's already utterly useless for me as
I have directories which happen to be in Japanese, such as my music.

--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

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Re: I Think They Need You In The Ubuntu Camp - Just FYI

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:07:10 -0600, Scott Roberts wrote:

> "NoStop" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:f%Caj.22562$Tx.3083@pd7urf3no...
>>>> 1) compiz comes installed
>>>> 2) AppArmor, a security framework adds even more security to Ubuntu
>>>> 3) Gnome 2.20
>>>> 4) a backup feature for Evolution
>>>> 5) more functionality in the gnome screensaver when a screen is
>>>> locked 6) syntax highlighting in gedit
>>>> 7) new applet called Appearance
>>>> 8) one click install of needed codecs when a multimedia file is
>>>> encountered
>>>> and the codec is required
>>>> 9) easy proprietary driver installation if desired 10) improved
>>>> plug'n play configuration for printers 11) automatic firmware install
>>>> for Broadcom cards 12) for laptop users, full suupoort for external
>>>> VGA 13) automatic read/write to NTFS drives 14) desktop search
>>>> 15) automatic installation of popular Firefox plugins validated by
>>>> Ubuntu
>>>
>>> If ubuntu keeps up this blistering pace, it will match Win95 in no
>>> time.
>>>
>> Do you have a reading comprehension problem. Most of what I listed
>> above is
>> way beyond what Fista can even do.
>
> I guess I do. Perhaps you can explain it in more detail.
>
> 1. I have no idea what "compiz" is. Never heard of it. Don't need it.

Imagine something far more powerful and capable than what Aero will ever
be and you get compiz.

> 2. Adds even more security to something that is already bullet-proof
Wow.

Everything can always be improved on!

> 3. Gnome 2.20? So what? That's a feature?

Latest version of the desktop.

> 4. data backup? This is new?

Evolution is the standard e-mail client. Can't comment on the backup
feature though, I usually manually just back up my evolution directory.

> 5. More screen saver features? How do I survive without this in Vista?

I don't know, how do you?

> 6. No way! Syntax highlighting?

Ok granted, this is probably something only useful to a very small
percentage of users. =)

> 7. Awesome. Something called Appearance. I want it! What is it?

Just an updated version of the desktop appearance settings. They did a
good job on it.

> 8. Automatic codecs install? This is new?

Well it is definitely something windows CANNOT do. I've yet to see media
player actually find codecs for a video file even once in my life.

> 9. When has this ever been hard? On "Windoze", I mean.

Let's see, windows you have to dig around on websites to find the drivers
you want and it's your responsibility to download the right one and you
gotta hope the manufacturer's installer isn't crap.

Ubuntu you just click the mouse button 5 times. System->Administration-
>Restricted Drivers Manager, Enable, Restart. Driver install is done from
one centralized location and the hardware is already automatically
detected and only the appropriate drivers shown.

> 10. Plug & play printers? Seriously?

Seriously. He did though neglect to mention that this Plug & play works
without a driver install. It is literally plug and play. Windows does
require driver installs first.

> 11. Ummm, wow.

Actually considering Broadcom's pathetic linux support, that is a rather
nice feature.

> 12. This has been around for 20 years. On "Windoze", I mean.

Can't comment there. Rarely use laptops, avoid them like the plague.
Don't like them.

> 13. You're right, Vista can't read/write NTFS for sure.

Huh? Of course Vista can read / write NTFS. This isn't so easy though for
any other OS as Microsoft does not release the specs for NTFS to the
public. Meaning that any and all NTFS support had to be reverse
engineered without even the slightest bit of documentation or help from
Microsoft. Now that *is* an accomplishment, even if you don't understand
why.

> 14. Is this anything like Google desktop search - for "Windoze"? Or the
> Vista desktop search?

Since I don't have enough experience with either Google or Vista's
search, I won't comment on things I can't truthfully compare.

> 15. I'm confused. The OS is now automatically installing browser
> plug-ins and this is *good*?

I'm not quite sure how it used to be different so I can't fully comment
there. I can say though that it has nothing to do with visiting a website
and it installing plugins without the users knowledge or consent. No, it
does not do that. It's not anything like that.

I suspect that the installation process when you want to install a plugin
has just been made simpler. But, I'd have to look at the actual details
of that feature to really know. i rarely use FF plugins so it's of little
concern to me.

>
> Sorry, bro. But your feature list is lame. If MS released a "feature"
> list like that you would wet yourself dancing in circles giggling like a
> school girl.

it's really only a small subset of all the changes. It hardly is
everything.


--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

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Re: I Think They Need You In The Ubuntu Camp - Just FYI


>> 8. Automatic codecs install? This is new?
>
> Well it is definitely something windows CANNOT do. I've yet to see media
> player actually find codecs for a video file even once in my life.

It seems to work for me.

>> 9. When has this ever been hard? On "Windoze", I mean.
>
> Let's see, windows you have to dig around on websites to find the drivers
> you want and it's your responsibility to download the right one and you
> gotta hope the manufacturer's installer isn't crap.
>
> Ubuntu you just click the mouse button 5 times. System->Administration-
>>Restricted Drivers Manager, Enable, Restart. Driver install is done from
> one centralized location and the hardware is already automatically
> detected and only the appropriate drivers shown.

Sorry, how is this different from Windows Update? Windows Update has been
around for decades.

>> 10. Plug & play printers? Seriously?
>
> Seriously. He did though neglect to mention that this Plug & play works
> without a driver install. It is literally plug and play. Windows does
> require driver installs first.

If Ubuntu can operate all of the advanced features of my printer *without* a
driver then I'm super impressed. Somehow, I doubt it though.

>> 13. You're right, Vista can't read/write NTFS for sure.
>
> Huh? Of course Vista can read / write NTFS. This isn't so easy though for
> any other OS as Microsoft does not release the specs for NTFS to the
> public. Meaning that any and all NTFS support had to be reverse
> engineered without even the slightest bit of documentation or help from
> Microsoft. Now that *is* an accomplishment, even if you don't understand
> why.

It's a fine accomplishment, but it's something Windows has done since Win95.
And that was my original comment, that all of these *features* have been
around for decades in that sucky Windoze OS.

> it's really only a small subset of all the changes. It hardly is
> everything.

Unfortunately, it's the list that some ubuntu zealot decided to share in a
Vista newsgroup to show us how great ubuntu is. Forgive me if I'm not
impressed with the list.
 
Re: I Think They Need You In The Ubuntu Camp - Just FYI

On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:53:46 -0600, Scott Roberts wrote:

>>> 8. Automatic codecs install? This is new?
>>
>> Well it is definitely something windows CANNOT do. I've yet to see
>> media player actually find codecs for a video file even once in my
>> life.
>
> It seems to work for me.

Then you're lucky I guess. I've never, not once in my life, seen Windows
Media player find a codec or hear from anyone that it did. And I'm not
talking exotic stuff here either. I'm talking stuff like DivX, MP3, etc.

Come to think of it, XP actually won't even play any of my DVDs out of
the box.

>
>>> 9. When has this ever been hard? On "Windoze", I mean.
>>
>> Let's see, windows you have to dig around on websites to find the
>> drivers you want and it's your responsibility to download the right one
>> and you gotta hope the manufacturer's installer isn't crap.
>>
>> Ubuntu you just click the mouse button 5 times. System->Administration-
>>>Restricted Drivers Manager, Enable, Restart. Driver install is done
>>>from
>> one centralized location and the hardware is already automatically
>> detected and only the appropriate drivers shown.
>
> Sorry, how is this different from Windows Update? Windows Update has
> been around for decades.

Very rarely have I seen Windows Update actually have driver updates. I've
seen it, but it's rare. I suppose Vista might do a bit better on that,
can't say for sure. I know Vista does a little better with hardware
detection on my system than XP does. XP has about 15 unknown devices,
including the ethernet port when first installed. Vista does come in
looking a bit better at about only 8 or so unknown devices.

Ubuntu is about the only OS though that recognizes everything out of the
box. Just the way it is, I've done fresh installs of all 3 operating
systems on this PC this year. Currently though just running XP and Ubuntu
as dual boot.

Note that I'm just referring to initial-out of the box detection. Of
course for all OS' drivers can be found and everything ultimately works.
They just differ in the amount of work I have to put in to make it so.

>
>>> 10. Plug & play printers? Seriously?
>>
>> Seriously. He did though neglect to mention that this Plug & play works
>> without a driver install. It is literally plug and play. Windows does
>> require driver installs first.
>
> If Ubuntu can operate all of the advanced features of my printer
> *without* a driver then I'm super impressed. Somehow, I doubt it though.

If it's a HP then it's very likely it can. HP support is extremely good.

Cannon on the other hand...thanks to cannon support is extremely poor as
they choose to not provide any support or documentation in any way shape
or form.

Epson supposedly is also very good though I have no personal experience
there.

Brother I have some limited personal experience. We have a brother
scanner/printer/copy thing in our office that primarily just serves as a
copier though. We usually use our HP printers for all our printing.

But I hooked my Ubuntu laptop up to it once and it worked
instantaneously.

>
>>> 13. You're right, Vista can't read/write NTFS for sure.
>>
>> Huh? Of course Vista can read / write NTFS. This isn't so easy though
>> for any other OS as Microsoft does not release the specs for NTFS to
>> the public. Meaning that any and all NTFS support had to be reverse
>> engineered without even the slightest bit of documentation or help from
>> Microsoft. Now that *is* an accomplishment, even if you don't
>> understand why.
>
> It's a fine accomplishment, but it's something Windows has done since
> Win95. And that was my original comment, that all of these *features*
> have been around for decades in that sucky Windoze OS.

Well NTFS is Microsoft's own proprietary file system. It obviously is
absolutely no surprise that Windows has supported it from day one. It'd
be rather sad if it was otherwise I would say! =)

>
>> it's really only a small subset of all the changes. It hardly is
>> everything.
>
> Unfortunately, it's the list that some ubuntu zealot decided to share in
> a Vista newsgroup to show us how great ubuntu is. Forgive me if I'm not
> impressed with the list.

That's all good. That's roughly how I felt when Microsoft released Vista.
I looked at Vista, then I looked at XP. Then I looked at my stack of 10
XP Professional Full Retail licenses. Then I tried to find a reason to go
spend $4,000 on the only viable upgrade path for me which would be Vista
Ultimate (business lacks the multi media support I'd want and the home
licenses aren't an upgrade to XP Professional).

And ya know what? I found nothing in Vista that justified the expense for
me. Compared to XP, I see little reason to spend the money on Vista.
Eyecandy I don't care about, feature-wise it doesn't really offer me
anything XP doesn't already do. But unlike XP, it definitely has things I
would not want. UAC, anti-piracy hassles, DRM, unjustifiable higher
system requirements, etc.

So for me, that's the primary reason why I, as a software developer that
spent years writing software for windows, chose to limit my Vista
licenses to a single license and use Ubuntu for everything else. =)

--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

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