Re: DANGER! D ANGER!Re: Free Registry Cleaner Download Review
Well not really. Just as HP has removed many of their files, so have dozens
of other manufacturers.
when find a supposed file on the NET elsewhere, one is likely to get an
"update driver" which does not contain the full set of files need for proper
installation OR has been placed by someone who put the wrong designation on
the file, e.g., this driver works with the 7452b, when in actuality it was
for the 5452a.
Then you run across the inevitable *software that came installed* that the
user has used for years BUT did not come on any disk or CDROM to replace it
with.
But we can banter back and forth about the variables and never come to
agreement. You think as you do, and I believe in what I have stated. As the
saying goes: we agree to disagree.
--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
--
_________
"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
news:u6zJ3sGsIHA.1240@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
| You exaggerate extremely. The numbers of machines I'm talking about amount
| to maybe one millionth of one percent of machines out there, or more
likely
| a millionth of that number. Come on, really... How many drivers really
CAN'T
| be found, or are you really saying, "Can't be *easily* found?" I'll bet
you
| can find every driver set ever written out there, somewhere, even if it
| requires shelling out some bucks to get them.
|
| Anyway, you're the one who described the machine you chose as an exemplar
of
| a machine that MUST be repaired in place because there is no way to
rebuild
| it. The machine(s) you describe are "decrepit" by definition. And just
like
| decrepit automobiles, they are just as much a danger to society as they
are
| a nuisance to their owners.
|
| In the case of idiots who didn't save the software that came with their
| computer, they deserve to be forced to buy a new machine.
|
| --
| Gary S. Terhune
| MS-MVP Shell/User
|
www.grystmill.com
|
| "MEB" <meb@not
here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| news:OycJifGsIHA.2064@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
| > Aw Gary, too decrepit??? That's like telling everyone to buy new
| > computers...
| >
| > "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
| > news:eLILfVGsIHA.5872@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
| > | Yes, but the "good" uses you propose have nothing to do with the
| > advertised
| > | intended use of the tools, and your examples depend on machines too
| > decrepit
| > | to be worth the effort, AFAIC.
| > |
| > | If the Registry is in such a state that it needs "cleaning", the tools
| > will
| > | do little if anything to help. In short, as a generally true
statement,
| > | proven over and over again, Registry Cleaners are dangerous and
| > worthless.
| > | Please read PA's reference to the Aumha.net thread wherein realities
are
| > | revealed after much testing. Hell, the most I've seen tagged by such a
| > | program were several hundred entries (so called "empty" CLSIDs?),
which
| > are
| > | a drop in the bucket compared to the entire Registry. In all, except
the
| > | most decrepit Windows 98 machine, those entries are perfectly
harmless.
| > | Note, too, that "empty" CLSIDs were put there by someone, presumably
| > with
| > | certain future situations in mind. IOW, the context may be missing
that
| > | would explain why the CLSID is there in the first place. IOW, if a
| > | programmer put something in the Registry, my suggestion is that you
| > leave
| > it
| > | there, since you have no ide3a what purpose it might be serving, even
if
| > | that purpose "breaks the rules" on proper Registry use.
| > |
| > | --
| > | Gary S. Terhune
| > | MS-MVP Shell/User
| > |
www.grystmill.com
| >
| >
| > Yes, in part. I have cautioned concerning removal pf ActiveX semmingly
| > blank entries. These ARE place holders,,, which should be left as they
are
| > DISABLED...
| >
| > As for "leave it there" that attempts to indicate all programmers know
| > what they are doing, and make proper installation files and uninstaller
| > routines... that's a dream world, it would ber nice, but its not a
| > reality.
| >
| > So again, these types of TOOLS can be of use, but must be used with
| > caution AND only after making an effort to understand what they might
| > find.
| > IN FACT, several of these tools now include Search Tools built-in, and
| > suggest using them BEFORE removal of any items. Its just like any
| > application or program that a user might have, they MUST learn how to
use
| > it.
| >
| > |
| > | "MEB" <meb@not
here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| > | news:O9RLrtAsIHA.524@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
| > | > Of course, but they are tools none the less. So naturally I like my
| > | > statement better. At least it doesn't make me sound like NONE of
them
| > are
| > | > worthy of use, just that the user should be aware of what can happen
| > when
| > | > used without knowledge.
| > | >
| > | > I have placed several "oh no" posts here when help is needed AFTER
| > | > misuse..
| > | >
| > | > --
| > | > MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
| > | > --
| > | > _________
| > | >
| > | > "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
| > | > news:eduY226rIHA.3900@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
| > | > | I'm going to modify my answer below... Such cases as you cite
should
| > be
| > | > | generally be scrapped and replaced. If nothing else, as soon as
that
| > | > system
| > | > | connects to any other system, in any manner, it is a *probable*
| > danger
| > | > to
| > | > | others. If it is so obsolete and unsupported and the user was so
| > | > | irresponsible that it is really impossible to rebuild, I say
thumbs
| > | > down.
| > | > |
| > | > | And I've decided that I like your mention of HJT. From what I see,
| > those
| > | > few
| > | > | Registry Cleaners that aren't pure scam are JUST as dangerous as
| > HJT.
| > Do
| > | > you
| > | > | recommend the unassisted use of HJT? Would you not scream
DANGER!!!
| > if
| > | > you
| > | > | saw it advertised as a user-friendly, idiot-proof tool?
| > | > |
| > | > | --
| > | > | Gary S. Terhune
| > | > | MS-MVP Shell/User
| > | > |
www.grystmill.com
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | > | "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
| > | > | news:OfeA8t6rIHA.4376@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
| > | > | >
| > | > | > "MEB" <meb@not
here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| > | > | > news:%23thP3H6rIHA.4228@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
| > | > | >>
| > | > | >> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
| > | > | >> news:OIlgiP4rIHA.3632@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
| > | > | >> | I don't use any such add-on and never have. Yes, I suppose
they
| > | > might
| > | > | >> have
| > | > | >> | come in handy once or twice, but by the time I thought of
| > grabbing
| > | > one
| > | > | >> for
| > | > | >> | the momentary purpose, I was done.
| > | > | >> |
| > | > | >> | I don't get involved in detailed spyware and virus removal.
| > With
| > | > minor
| > | > | >> | exceptions, when I encounter a seriously infested machine, I
| > | > recommend
| > | > | >> a
| > | > | >> | full rebuild. Once a machine is infested, I consider it
| > permanently
| > | > | >> suspect.
| > | > | >> | Besides, it would seem to me that in the case of viruses and
| > | > spyware
| > | > | >> | removal, the experts should already know EXACTLY what spyware
| > and
| > | > | >> virus(es)
| > | > | >> | they are dealing with and which Registry entries to remove,
and
| > | > even
| > | > | >> have
| > | > | >> | REG files for the purpose.
| > | > | >>
| > | > | >> In part you're right, many do have these reg files however, as
| > these
| > | > | >> things
| > | > | >> are constantly being modified [variants] the "cleaning tools*
are
| > | > used
| > | > to
| > | > | >> locate potential entries and or files which *may be* that
| > variant.
| > | > | >> Without
| > | > | >> the output of these programs, diagnostics becomes just guesses.
| > One
| > | > could
| > | > | >> even, under the cleaner aspect, rate hijackthis as in the same
| > class,
| > | > yet
| > | > | >> without this tool many would be at the mercy of any BHO or
other,
| > and
| > | > | >> experts would be without the tools necessary to help.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Can you provide a list of the most popular of these tools? I'm
| > having
| > | > a
| > | > | > hard time associating any of the usually suggested and widely
| > | > advertised
| > | > | > Registry Cleaners with discovery of virus variants.
| > | > | >
| > | > | >> They can be far more effective than running tweakUI for other
| > styles
| > | > of
| > | > | >> cleanup as well.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > I never use TUI, either. What kind of cleanup does TUI do? Are
we
| > back
| > | > to
| > | > | > "cleaning" MRUs, etc.?
| > | > | >
| > | > | >> | If they are GUESSING to the point that they need
| > | > | >> | tools to seek out (intelligently, one presumes) just the
signs
| > of
| > | > crap,
| > | > | >> then
| > | > | >> | we're back to a full wipe and reinstall AFAIC. Not to be too
| > blunt
| > | > | >> about
| > | > | >> it,
| > | > | >> | but I consider such pastimes precisely that. Pastimes. Just
| > like
| > a
| > | > lot
| > | > | >> of
| > | > | >> | "fixing" that goes on here, say in the networking and DUN
| > sphere,
| > | > for
| > | > | >> | instance, with the interminable and often unresolved threads,
| > all
| > | > your
| > | > | >> AT
| > | > | >> | commands, blah, blah... The way to FIX a DUN problem is
almost
| > | > ALWAYS
| > | > | >> to
| > | > | >> | remove all networking and related devices and services and
let
| > them
| > | > | >> | reinstall themselves.
| > | > | >> |
| > | > | >> | --
| > | > | >> | Gary S. Terhune
| > | > | >> | MS-MVP Shell/User
| > | > | >> |
www.grystmill.com
| > | > | >>
| > | > | >> The full wipe would be the safest, I agree however, that's
just
| > not
| > | > | >> possible for many users. Either they no longer have the
| > installation
| > | > | >> disks
| > | > | >> for their applications, or those applications may no longer be
| > | > supported
| > | > | >> [leaving them with only the installation disk{s}, but no
| > updates].
| > | > Then
| > | > | >> you
| > | > | >> run against many devices which once had drivers and/or updates
| > posted
| > | > | >> upon
| > | > | >> the manufacturer's site, which may no longer be offered.
Granted,
| > one
| > | > can
| > | > | >> search the NET for them, but that places one in the hands of
| > whatever
| > | > is
| > | > | >> found.
| > | > | >> Yes, users should understand that they should have obtained and
| > saved
| > | > | >> these
| > | > | >> during the course of their usage, sadly many don't
| > | > | >
| > | > | > You're starting to get pretty rarified, there. One in ten
million?
| > | > | >
| > | > | > OK, I'll allow that for particular purposes and in the hands of
| > truly
| > | > | > experienced techs, one or more of these tools might come in
handy,
| > but
| > | > | > that small exception doesn't come close to convincing me to
desist
| > in
| > | > my
| > | > | > blanket condemnation of such tools in this forum. Read PA's cite
| > for
| > | > the
| > | > | > real skinny.
| > | > | >
| > | > | >> I think we agreed on the Network issue in the networking forum,
| > and
| > | > we
| > | > | >> did
| > | > | >> offer that as the best test solution, and the other factors
were
| > to
| > | > work
| > | > | >> through the potentials associated.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > HUH!?!
| > | > | >
| > | > | > --
| > | > | > Gary S. Terhune
| > | > | > MS-MVP Shell/User
| > | > | >
www.grystmill.com
| > | > | >
| > | > | >>
| > | > | >> --
| > | > | >> MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
| > | > | >> --
| > | > | >> _________
| > | > | >>
| > | > | >>
| > | > | >> |
| > | > | >> | "MEB" <meb@not
here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| > | > | >> | news:eQZZwCzrIHA.484@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
| > | > | >> | > I'll put the response here, rather than go through all the
| > | > postings
| > | > | >> for
| > | > | >> | > individual responses...
| > | > | >> | >
| > | > | >> | > Locating the issue areas is the primary purpose for which I
| > use
| > | > the
| > | > | >> | > programs for, though I have tested them extensively, which
is
| > why
| > | > I
| > | > | >> | > caution
| > | > | >> | > not to use the auto cleanup.
| > | > | >> | >
| > | > | >> | > But for the rest, I suggest a perusal through the archives
of
| > | > this
| > | > | >> group
| > | > | >> | > remind the parties of their postings and direct to the
| > SpyWare
| > | > and
| > | > | >> Virus
| > | > | >> | > removal forums and sites.
| > | > | >> | > These tools [ccleaner, regseeker, and others] are used
| > regularly
| > | > | >> during
| > | > | >> | > the
| > | > | >> | > process. Granted, under the guidance of people familiar
with
| > them
| > | > and
| > | > | >> the
| > | > | >> | > registry, but certainly are used far more often than
| > suggesting
| > | > | >> manual
| > | > | >> | > editing. Moreover, who in here, doesn't have their favorite
| > | > regedit
| > | > | >> addin
| > | > | >> | > or
| > | > | >> | > replacement that they use because of the limited
capabilities
| > of
| > | > the
| > | > | >> basic
| > | > | >> | > regedit. Is there anyone still that far in the mud?
| > | > | >> | >
| > | > | >> | > So my statement stands, careful application of these
cleaners
| > can
| > | > be
| > | > | >> of
| > | > | >> | > use, but not to those who fail to take the time to
understand
| > | > them.
| > | > | >> | >
| > | > | >> | > --
| > | > | >> | > MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
| > | > | >> | > --
| > | > | >> | > _________
| > | > | >> | >
| > | > | >> | > "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
| > | > | >> | > news:uJJ8wpwrIHA.4952@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
| > | > | >> | > | Please provide documentation of Registry bloat causing
any
| > | > | >> significant
| > | > | >> | > | failures". Only such thing I've heard of is SCANREG /FIX
| > | > failing
| > | > to
| > | > | >> run
| > | > | >> | > on
| > | > | >> | > a
| > | > | >> | > | large Registry. BFD.
| > | > | >> | > |
| > | > | >> | > | Yes, sometimes the Registry needs work, usually after a
| > | > wide-spread
| > | > | >> | > disaster
| > | > | >> | > | involving the user doing something that shouldn't have
been
| > | > done,
| > | > | >> but
| > | > | >> | > only
| > | > | >> | > | an expert is likely to know for sure, and while tools
| > *might*
| > | > | >> locate a
| > | > | >> | > few
| > | > | >> | > | of those entries, you know better than most, I think, how
| > much
| > | > of
| > | > | >> any
| > | > | >> | > real
| > | > | >> | > | Registry *REPAIR*, as opposed to "cleaning", is a
| > painstaking
| > | > | >> MANUAL
| > | > | >> | > search
| > | > | >> | > | and research procedure that few if any tools do well at
| > all.
| > | > | >> | > |
| > | > | >> | > | I used them regularly for several years, to find "crap"
and
| > | > delete
| > | > | >> it,
| > | > | >> | > | ALWAYS having to refuse the deletion of some things I had
| > | > learned
| > | > | >> | > weren't
| > | > | >> | > a
| > | > | >> | > | good idea to remove (or were unimportant MRUs, etc.), and
| > after
| > | > | >> many
| > | > | >> | > years
| > | > | >> | > | of such experience, I arrived at the stance I take now.
| > I've
| > | > never
| > | > | >> once
| > | > | >> | > had
| > | > | >> | > | any success helping anyone else by having them run any
| > Registry
| > | > | >> tools,
| > | > | >> | > | whereas I have several times dealt with people who were
| > screwed
| > | > by
| > | > | >> their
| > | > | >> | > | Registry tools, even the same ones I'd been using and
| > thought
| > | > were
| > | > | >> | > | "idiot-proof".
| > | > | >> | > |
| > | > | >> | > | --
| > | > | >> | > | Gary S. Terhune
| > | > | >> | > | MS-MVP Shell/User
| > | > | >> | > |
www.grystmill.com
| > | > | >> | > |
| > | > | >> | > |
| > | > | >> | > | "MEB" <meb@not
here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| > | > | >> | > | news:OnaPSovrIHA.3616@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
| > | > | >> | > | > Ah gosh I hate to do this, BUT,,,,
| > | > | >> | > | >
| > | > | >> | > | > As we all know, the registry can become quite bloated
| > with
| > | > | >> entries
| > | > | >> | > which
| > | > | >> | > | > relate to nothing of value, from MRU lists to
| > applications
| > | > which
| > | > | >> fill
| > | > | >> | > the
| > | > | >> | > | > registry with open files which no longer exist, to
| > | > applications
| > | > | >> | > supposedly
| > | > | >> | > | > removed but actually leave, at times, countless
worthless
| > | > | >> entries
| > | > | >> to
| > | > | >> | > any
| > | > | >> | > | > number of other things which aren't need, or may have
| > somehow
| > | > | >> been
| > | > | >> | > changed
| > | > | >> | > | > at sometime.
| > | > | >> | > | > We also know or should know that the registry will FAIL
| > or
| > be
| > | > | >> prone
| > | > | >> to
| > | > | >> | > | > failure after exceeding a certain size [parsing
| > issues]....
| > | > which
| > | > | >> then
| > | > | >> | > | > becomes an issue which may affect recoverability in a
| > time
| > of
| > | > | >> crisis.
| > | > | >> | > | >
| > | > | >> | > | > All the MVP that I have observed here, have, at some
| > time,
| > | > posted
| > | > | >> | > methods
| > | > | >> | > | > to clean errant registry entries, compact the registry,
| > and
| > | > | >> otherwise
| > | > | >> | > work
| > | > | >> | > | > upon the registry... They also have repeatedly advised,
| > when
| > | > | >> | > confronted
| > | > | >> | > | > with
| > | > | >> | > | > ghost entries, bad drivers or applications or
otherwise,,
| > | > advised
| > | > | >> HOW
| > | > | >> | > to
| > | > | >> | > | > *manually* search the registry to *clean it*.
| > | > | >> | > | >
| > | > | >> | > | > I personally have used [and still use] several tools to
| > clean
| > | > the
| > | > | >> | > | > registry,
| > | > | >> | > | > which IF PROPERLY USED can be relied upon to make a
| > system
| > | > lean
| > | > | >> and
| > | > | >> | > | > mean,,,
| > | > | >> | > | > but the key is PROPERLY USED... ANY use of a cleaner
| > should
| > | > be
| > | > | >> taken
| > | > | >> | > with
| > | > | >> | > | > *a
| > | > | >> | > | > grain of salt*. AUTOMATIC cleaning is not a good idea.
| > IF
| > | > the
| > | > | >> user
| > | > | >> is
| > | > | >> | > | > unfamiliar with the registry, then damage will likely
| > occur.
| > | > IF,
| > | > | >> on
| > | > | >> | > the
| > | > | >> | > | > other hand, the user familiarizes theirselves with the
| > | > registry,
| > | > | >> makes
| > | > | >> | > an
| > | > | >> | > | > effort to first increase their knowledge of the entries
| > by
| > | > | >> searching
| > | > | >> | > first
| > | > | >> | > | > to see if they ARE un-needed PRIOR to removal, then the
| > | > desired
| > | > | >> | > results
| > | > | >> | > | > can
| > | > | >> | > | > be achieved.
| > | > | >> | > | >
| > | > | >> | > | > Never overlook the KEY, that personal knowledge and
| > | > understanding
| > | > | >> is
| > | > | >> | > YOUR
| > | > | >> | > | > responsibility. OR stay away from these cleaners as
they
| > | > MIGHT
| > | > | >> cause
| > | > | >> | > more
| > | > | >> | > | > harm than good.
| > | > | >> | > | >
| > | > | >> | > | > These things ARE after all, relied upon quite heavily
| > during
| > | > | >> cleanup
| > | > | >> | > | > activities from SpyWare, Virus, and other such
| > activities...
| > | > | >> | > | >
| > | > | >> | > | > --
| > | > | >> | > | > MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
| > | > | >> | > | > --
| > | > | >> | > | > _________
| > | > | >> | > | >
| > | > | >> | > | >
| > | > | >> | > | > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in
| > | > message
| > | > | >> | > | > news:O18TzSurIHA.5060@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
| > | > | >> | > | > |
letterman@invalid.com wrote:
| > | > | >> | > | > | > On Mon, 5 May 2008 08:54:57 -0700, "Gary S.
Terhune"
| > | > <none>
| > | > | >> wrote:
| > | > | >> | > | > | >
| > | > | >> | > | > | >> ALL registry cleaners are VERY dangerous to your
| > system,
| > | > and
| > | > | >> will
| > | > | >> | > | > | >> actually
| > | > | >> | > | > | >> FIX a problem, even just "slowness", approximately
| > | > NEVER.
| > | > | >> | > | > | >
| > | > | >> | > | > | > I run Regseeker regularly and never had a problem.
I
| > | > have
| > | > | >> never
| > | > | >> | > seen
| > | > | >> | > | > | > it fix any problems, but it does remove a lot of
| > useless
| > | > | >> junk.
| > | > | >> | > | > | > Without such programs, it seems to me that the
| > registry
| > | > would
| > | > | >> get
| > | > | >> | > so
| > | > | >> | > | > | > huge that it would be crash prone. For example,
lets
| > say
| > | > I
| > | > | >> | > created
| > | > | >> | > a
| > | > | >> | > | > | > folder called "JUNK". I used that folder to
| > temporarily
| > | > | >> place a
| > | > | >> | > bunch
| > | > | >> | > | > | > of things I find on my hard drive, which are
| > everything
| > | > from
| > | > | >> text,
| > | > | >> | > or
| > | > | >> | > | > | > Wordpad notes, to downloaded pictures, file
| > downloads,
| > | > etc.
| > | > | >> Then
| > | > | >> | > I
| > | > | >> | > | > | > begin sorting out the junk, and use winzip to open
| > many
| > | > of
| > | > | >> the
| > | > | >> | > | > | > downloads, and some photo viewer to look at the
| > pictures,
| > | > and
| > | > | >> | > Wordpad
| > | > | >> | > | > | > to look at many of the notes. ALL of these things
| > are
| > | > | >> documented
| > | > | >> | > in
| > | > | >> | > | > | > the registry. Wordpad, Winzip, Photo Viewers all
| > store
| > | > | >> "recently
| > | > | >> | > | > | > opened files".
| > | > | >> | > | > | >
| > | > | >> | > | > | > Eventually I get everything put on a CD or other
| > media
| > | > and
| > | > I
| > | > | >> | > delete
| > | > | >> | > | > | > the "Junk" folder. Then I remove several of the
demo
| > | > | >> downloads
| > | > | >> I
| > | > | >> | > | > tried.
| > | > | >> | > | > | >
| > | > | >> | > | > | > Running Regseeker finds multiple references to that
| > JUNK
| > | > | >> folder,
| > | > | >> | > | > | > references to Winzip, Wordpad, etc opening files,
and
| > | > many
| > | > | >> things
| > | > | >> | > | > | > relating to the demos I tried and removed. All of
| > that
| > | > is
| > | > | >> removed
| > | > | >> | > | > | > from the registry, thus keeping it small and clean.
| > Of
| > | > | >> course I
| > | > | >> | > | > | > always read what is being cleaned (removed). 99.9%
| > of
| > | > the
| > | > | >> time
| > | > | >> | > it's
| > | > | >> | > | > | > just this old stuff that is not needed or wanted.
| > | > | >> | > | > | >
| > | > | >> | > | > | > So how can you say that Reg cleaners are dangerous
| > and
| > | > should
| > | > | >> not
| > | > | >> | > be
| > | > | >> | > | > | > used.
| > | > | >> | > | > |
| > | > | >> | > | > | Because he (and a few others here) know what they're
| > | > talking
| > | > | >> about.
| > | > | >> | > | > |
| > | > | >> | > | > | > I do agree to be careful what is being removed, but
| > | > without
| > | > | >> | > | > | > them the registry will become a pile of useless
| > garbage.
| > | > | >> | > | > |
| > | > | >> | > | > | Nonsense.
| > --
| > MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
| > --
| > _________
| >
| >
| >
|