Clean a PC before selling?

[David]

Oh great, another curt poster to this NG, like it needs another.

" db ´¯`·.. ><)))º>` .. ." <databaseben.public.newsgroup.microsoft.com>
wrote in message news:#iC1gdlTIHA.1168@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> i know those softwares
> you mentioned.
>
> and your methodology provides
> a false sense of security
> to the inept.
>
> but it really doesn't matter
> since my response was for
> the benefit of the o.p. and
> not for the debate of others.
>
> --
>
> db ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·..><)))º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><)))º>¸.
>><)))º>·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><)))º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><)))º>
>
>
> .
>
>
> "DanS" <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@a.d.e.l.p.h.i.a.n.e.t> wrote in message
> news:Xns9A1A7DFF0633Cthisnthatadelphianet@207.46.248.16...
>> db ´¯`·.. ><)))º>` .. . <databaseben.public.newsgroup.microsoft.com>
>> wrote in news:u2Qz4ZiTIHA.5404@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl:
>>
>>> there is only one way
>>>
>>> however, this is a complicated
>>> process and best left to those
>>> who have studied and practiced
>>> the method. many of us old timers
>>> and experts understand the methods
>>> and will never share this experience
>>> on the open newsgroups.
>>
>> Not complicated DB...maybe to you. Just use any number of utilities you
>> can d/l to do free space shredding with the OS still installed, or use
>> the HD mfg's utility disk to do a low-level 0 or 1 fill, however many
>> times you want.
>>
>>> further it is unclear what the
>>> true nature of your question is.
>>
>> The only thing unclear here is your typical answers all written in
>> riddles.
>>
>>
>>> eradicating traces on the computer
>>> is one side, there is however the
>>> other end, whereas business's maintain
>>> data that is forever linked to your ip
>>> address and your billing accounts.
>>
>> What does that have to do with the question ?
>>
>>>
>>> in addition, you simply can't
>>> reinstall windows and simply give
>>> the machine away.
>>>
>>> windows has only one license per
>>> computer and it is enforced without
>>> compassion by Microsoft's activation
>>> technology.
>>
>> Maybe it was an OEM install already tied to the hardware, in which case
>> that copy of Windows is of no use unless it is on the same hardware.
>

 

[John John]

db ´¯`·.. ><)))º>` .. . wrote:

> but it really doesn't matter
> since my response was for
> the benefit of the o.p.

Was it meant for comedic relief or what? I hope so because it contained
absolutely no useful information to the question asked by the OP, but as
far as jokes go that was one of your best ever!

John

 

[dennis@home]

"jim" <jim@home.net> wrote in message
news:958fj.60952$K27.50818@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>
> "Malke" <notreally@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:%23JGzETiTIHA.3400@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> jim wrote:
>>> If you wanted to clean ALL traces of your activity from a PC before
>>> selling it or giving it away, what would be the best way to do that
>>> without a format and complete re-install of the OS?
>>
>> You can't. Even with a format, data recovery software can retrieve files.
>> The only way to make sure there is nothing left of your activity is to
>> wipe the hard drive (Darik's Boot and Nuke is free; Acronis Disk Cleanser
>> is good but not free) or smash it with a sledge hammer.
>>
>>
>> Malke
>> --
>> Elephant Boy Computers
>> www.elephantboycomputers.com
>> "Don't Panic!"
>> MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User
>
> Thanks for the info - http://dban.sourceforge.net/ for those that want it
> too.

Apart from the fact that its impossible to guarantee to erase a hard disk of
all information using /any/ software you can get.
The mechanical tolerances mean that the erase head can never be guaranteed
to actually pass over the entire track and will not leave some remains at
the edge of the track which can be read if someone wants to put in the
effort.

The claims made by software writers are not really justified and any disks
with secrets on them should be physically destroyed.

 

[dennis@home]

"DanS" <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@a.d.e.l.p.h.i.a.n.e.t> wrote in message
news:Xns9A1AB77C387E7thisnthatadelphianet@66.250.146.128...
> db ´¯`·.. ><)))º>` .. . <databaseben.public.newsgroup.microsoft.com>
> wrote in news:#iC1gdlTIHA.1168@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl:
>
>> i know those softwares
>> you mentioned.
>>
>> and your methodology provides
>> a false sense of security
>> to the inept.
>
> Using DoD compliant s/w gives
> a false sense of security ?

It sure sounds like it.
See my other post about the mechanics of disks and you will understand why
software is no good for real secrets.
I doubt db knows a way to do it either so don't expect a sensible reply on
how to do it.
However I doubt if any private individual has any data worth dismantling a
disk to recover so a quick wipe will do.
A business is a different matter as accounts and personal stuff should be
destroyed by physically destroying the disk as the MoD does.

 

[db ´¯`·.. >]

providing your 3 cents where
none has been asked, is in it
self a problem with your ego.

frankly, you are so busy trolling
upon everyone's response to the
o.p. that you have not posted a
response directly to "jim" and
his question.


--

db ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·..><)))º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><)))º>¸.
><)))º>·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><)))º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><)))º>


..


"DanS" <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@a.d.e.l.p.h.i.a.n.e.t> wrote in message
news:Xns9A1AB77C387E7thisnthatadelphianet@66.250.146.128...
> db ´¯`·.. ><)))º>` .. . <databaseben.public.newsgroup.microsoft.com>
> wrote in news:#iC1gdlTIHA.1168@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl:
>
>> i know those softwares
>> you mentioned.
>>
>> and your methodology provides
>> a false sense of security
>> to the inept.
>
> Using DoD compliant s/w gives
> a false sense of security ?
>
>> but it really doesn't matter
>> since my response was for
>> the benefit of the o.p. and
>> not for the debate of others.
>
> You have a Frank ego.
>
> And who cares why you posted. I
> certainly don't.
>
> It was a post in a publicly
> accessible newsgroup, which,
> by nature, is up for comment
> by ANYONE.
>
> If you don't want to engage
> in a discussion or debate, then
> stop throwing in your one cent.
> (If it's worth that much.)
>

 

[John John]

dennis@home wrote:

>
>
> "DanS" <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@a.d.e.l.p.h.i.a.n.e.t> wrote in message
> news:Xns9A1AB77C387E7thisnthatadelphianet@66.250.146.128...
>
>> db ´¯`·.. ><)))º>` .. . <databaseben.public.newsgroup.microsoft.com>
>> wrote in news:#iC1gdlTIHA.1168@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl:
>>
>>> i know those softwares
>>> you mentioned.
>>>
>>> and your methodology provides
>>> a false sense of security
>>> to the inept.
>>
>>
>> Using DoD compliant s/w gives
>> a false sense of security ?
>
>
> It sure sounds like it.
> See my other post about the mechanics of disks and you will understand
> why software is no good for real secrets.
> I doubt db knows a way to do it either so don't expect a sensible reply
> on how to do it.
> However I doubt if any private individual has any data worth dismantling
> a disk to recover so a quick wipe will do.
> A business is a different matter as accounts and personal stuff should
> be destroyed by physically destroying the disk as the MoD does.

No one has ever been able to recover data from a properly wiped disk,
Dennis, no one. What you say was deemed to be "theoretically" possible
about 25 years ago or more, but even then no one ever succeeded in
recovering data from a wiped drive. Today's class of drives are
completely different from drives of 25 years ago and it would be even
more difficult to recover data from a wiped drive than it was 25 years
ago. The facts are that no one can recover data on a wiped drive.

John

 

[Dustin Harper]

Yes, if they are that sensitive, destroying the hardware is the only way.
With enough money, you can recover data from any hard drive.

--
Dustin Harper
dharper@vistarip.com
http://www.vistarip.com


"dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in message
newsBA2F17E-D0EF-403D-82DC-B97303865F8C@microsoft.com...
>
>
> "jim" <jim@home.net> wrote in message
> news:958fj.60952$K27.50818@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>>
>> "Malke" <notreally@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:%23JGzETiTIHA.3400@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> jim wrote:
>>>> If you wanted to clean ALL traces of your activity from a PC before
>>>> selling it or giving it away, what would be the best way to do that
>>>> without a format and complete re-install of the OS?
>>>
>>> You can't. Even with a format, data recovery software can retrieve
>>> files. The only way to make sure there is nothing left of your activity
>>> is to wipe the hard drive (Darik's Boot and Nuke is free; Acronis Disk
>>> Cleanser is good but not free) or smash it with a sledge hammer.
>>>
>>>
>>> Malke
>>> --
>>> Elephant Boy Computers
>>> www.elephantboycomputers.com
>>> "Don't Panic!"
>>> MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User
>>
>> Thanks for the info - http://dban.sourceforge.net/ for those that want it
>> too.
>
> Apart from the fact that its impossible to guarantee to erase a hard disk
> of all information using /any/ software you can get.
> The mechanical tolerances mean that the erase head can never be guaranteed
> to actually pass over the entire track and will not leave some remains at
> the edge of the track which can be read if someone wants to put in the
> effort.
>
> The claims made by software writers are not really justified and any disks
> with secrets on them should be physically destroyed.

 

[DanS]

db ´¯`·.. ><)))º>` .. . <databaseben.public.newsgroup.microsoft.com> wrote
in news:uHlbtUmTIHA.5516@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl:

> frankly, you are so busy trolling
> upon everyone's response to the
> o.p. that you have not posted a
> response directly to "jim" and
> his question.

Not trolling. Just pointing out what I
believe are incorrect statements made.

Also, there was no need to repeat the
options that were already offered within
several replies prior to my post.

 

[John John]

No one has ever been able to recover any data from a properly wiped
drive. No one ever with any amount of money. It is nothing more than
an urban legend.

John

Dustin Harper wrote:

> Yes, if they are that sensitive, destroying the hardware is the only
> way. With enough money, you can recover data from any hard drive.
>

 

[David]

FWIW

http://blogs.computerworld.com/node/5687/print

"Dustin Harper" <dharper@vistarip.com> wrote in message
news138074E-9CC4-4152-856D-39BFE02BB8CE@microsoft.com...
> Yes, if they are that sensitive, destroying the hardware is the only way.
> With enough money, you can recover data from any hard drive.
>
> --
> Dustin Harper
> dharper@vistarip.com
> http://www.vistarip.com
>
>
> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in message
> newsBA2F17E-D0EF-403D-82DC-B97303865F8C@microsoft.com...
>>
>>
>> "jim" <jim@home.net> wrote in message
>> news:958fj.60952$K27.50818@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>>>
>>> "Malke" <notreally@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:%23JGzETiTIHA.3400@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>> jim wrote:
>>>>> If you wanted to clean ALL traces of your activity from a PC before
>>>>> selling it or giving it away, what would be the best way to do that
>>>>> without a format and complete re-install of the OS?
>>>>
>>>> You can't. Even with a format, data recovery software can retrieve
>>>> files. The only way to make sure there is nothing left of your activity
>>>> is to wipe the hard drive (Darik's Boot and Nuke is free; Acronis Disk
>>>> Cleanser is good but not free) or smash it with a sledge hammer.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Malke
>>>> --
>>>> Elephant Boy Computers
>>>> www.elephantboycomputers.com
>>>> "Don't Panic!"
>>>> MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User
>>>
>>> Thanks for the info - http://dban.sourceforge.net/ for those that want
>>> it too.
>>
>> Apart from the fact that its impossible to guarantee to erase a hard disk
>> of all information using /any/ software you can get.
>> The mechanical tolerances mean that the erase head can never be
>> guaranteed to actually pass over the entire track and will not leave some
>> remains at the edge of the track which can be read if someone wants to
>> put in the effort.
>>
>> The claims made by software writers are not really justified and any
>> disks with secrets on them should be physically destroyed.
>

 

[Richard G. Harper]

Remove the hard drive, smash it with a hammer, replace it with a new one.
That's the only way to be 100% sure.

--
Richard G. Harper [MVP Shell/User] rgharper@gmail.com
* NEW! Catch my blog ... http://msmvps.com/blogs/rgharper/
* PLEASE post all messages and replies in the newsgroups
* The Website - http://rgharper.mvps.org/
* HELP us help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


"jim" <jim@home.net> wrote in message
news:JH7fj.60941$K27.9239@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
> If you wanted to clean ALL traces of your activity from a PC before
> selling it or giving it away, what would be the best way to do that
> without a format and complete re-install of the OS?
>

 

[Saucy]

"Richard G. Harper" <rgharper@email.com> wrote in message
news:ObEQ$PnTIHA.536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Remove the hard drive, smash it with a hammer, replace it with a new one.
> That's the only way to be 100% sure.
>
> --
> Richard G. Harper [MVP Shell/User] rgharper@gmail.com
> * NEW! Catch my blog ... http://msmvps.com/blogs/rgharper/
> * PLEASE post all messages and replies in the newsgroups
> * The Website - http://rgharper.mvps.org/
> * HELP us help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
>
>
> "jim" <jim@home.net> wrote in message
> news:JH7fj.60941$K27.9239@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>> If you wanted to clean ALL traces of your activity from a PC before
>> selling it or giving it away, what would be the best way to do that
>> without a format and complete re-install of the OS?
>>
>


You forgot the plasma furnace .. a plasma furnace will turn the smashed
remains into inert dust. After smashing the drive with a hammer it should be
thrown into a plasma furnace.

[New capabilities come with plasma furnace]
http://media.www.iowastatedaily.com...lities.Come.With.Plasma.Furnace-1093382.shtml

Saucy

 

[Bruce Chambers]

jim wrote:
> If you wanted to clean ALL traces of your activity from a PC before selling
> it or giving it away, what would be the best way to do that without a format
> and complete re-install of the OS?
>
>


A format and reinstallation would be the bare *minimum* precaution.

To protect personal or business information and data from any
future users of average skills, you should, at the very least, format
the hard drive. If you wish to do a more thorough job of protecting the
data, WipeDrive
(http://www.whitecanyon.com/wipedrive-erase-hard-drive.php) meets U.S.
DoD standards for securely cleaning surplus unclassified hard drives,
and could be used before formatting and reinstalling the OS and
applications.

--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

 

[Shenan Stanley]

jim wrote:
> If you wanted to clean ALL traces of your activity from a PC before
> selling it or giving it away, what would be the best way to do that
> without a format and complete re-install of the OS?

I'd either replace the hard disk drive and keep mine (the new hard disk
would have nothing on it) *or* I would use something like Darik's Boot and
Nuke to completely blow away everything on the hard disk drive.

I would then provide those who bought the system with the method to restore
the system to it's 'as purchased originally' state (like a Windows XP CD and
whatever applications they should get CD) and some short set of instructions
on what to do to install the OS/apps if any back on the machine.

Either way I know that what they got was nothing I am concerned over and
they know whatever they got is clean and legitimate. They get to do what I
always recommend anyway - clean install a used system - and they know they
can do that whenever they need to in case of a problem. They actually get a
complete system.

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

 

[Shenan Stanley]

Freaky wrote:
<snip>
> PS crossposting is not appreciated.

What?

I would much rather an unsure user (or better yet - a 'sure they wanted to
post in multiple groups' user) post in multoiple groups using crossposting
rather than multiposting. This saves the poster and end-users time in the
long run.

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

 

[dennis@home]

"John John" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:eGe5vUmTIHA.5524@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> dennis@home wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> "DanS" <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@a.d.e.l.p.h.i.a.n.e.t> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9A1AB77C387E7thisnthatadelphianet@66.250.146.128...
>>
>>> db ´¯`·.. ><)))º>` .. . <databaseben.public.newsgroup.microsoft.com>
>>> wrote in news:#iC1gdlTIHA.1168@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl:
>>>
>>>> i know those softwares
>>>> you mentioned.
>>>>
>>>> and your methodology provides
>>>> a false sense of security
>>>> to the inept.
>>>
>>>
>>> Using DoD compliant s/w gives
>>> a false sense of security ?
>>
>>
>> It sure sounds like it.
>> See my other post about the mechanics of disks and you will understand
>> why software is no good for real secrets.
>> I doubt db knows a way to do it either so don't expect a sensible reply
>> on how to do it.
>> However I doubt if any private individual has any data worth dismantling
>> a disk to recover so a quick wipe will do.
>> A business is a different matter as accounts and personal stuff should be
>> destroyed by physically destroying the disk as the MoD does.
>
> No one has ever been able to recover data from a properly wiped disk,
> Dennis, no one. What you say was deemed to be "theoretically" possible
> about 25 years ago or more, but even then no one ever succeeded in
> recovering data from a wiped drive. Today's class of drives are
> completely different from drives of 25 years ago and it would be even more
> difficult to recover data from a wiped drive than it was 25 years ago.
> The facts are that no one can recover data on a wiped drive.

How would you know that no one has ever recovered data?
The fact is that even modern disks have tolerances and you cannot guarantee
to position the heads during a wipe in such a way that a ring of un-wiped
data is left. Now you may claim no one has ever read such a ring but there
is no way you can prove it. The sort of organisations with the resources and
the /need/ to do so are not going to talk to you about it.
So the facts are, I have stated a "theoretical" way of getting data back and
you have stated that no one has ever done it.
Its up to the person responsible for the data to determine if the $50 it
costs for a disk is worth the risk.

PS:
As I said the military destroy the disks with important stuff on and I have
been there when they collect them up and leave you with a room full of
computers without disk drives.

Also if you have any personal data on me I expect you to destroy the drives
or I will bring a prosecution under the data protection act (UK) for not
using due care.

 

[PD]

On Jan 3, 10:21 am, Malke <notrea...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> jim wrote:
> > If you wanted to clean ALL traces of your activity from a PC before selling
> > it or giving it away, what would be the best way to do that without a format
> > and complete re-install of the OS?
>
> You can't. Even with a format, data recovery software can retrieve
> files. The only way to make sure there is nothing left of your activity
> is to wipe the hard drive (Darik's Boot and Nuke is free; Acronis Disk
> Cleanser is good but not free) or smash it with a sledge hammer.

Fer crissake, m'man... the guy doesn't have to worry that the CIA is
gonna get ahold of his computer and scour it for details!

Folks who ask these kinda questions are giving their computer to an
ordinary person who is clueless - not to add, probably disinterested -
when it comes to things like that.

 

[John John]

dennis@home wrote:

> How would you know that no one has ever recovered data?
> The fact is that even modern disks have tolerances and you cannot
> guarantee to position the heads during a wipe in such a way that a ring
> of un-wiped data is left. Now you may claim no one has ever read such a
> ring but there is no way you can prove it. The sort of organisations
> with the resources and the /need/ to do so are not going to talk to you
> about it.
> So the facts are, I have stated a "theoretical" way of getting data back
> and you have stated that no one has ever done it.
> Its up to the person responsible for the data to determine if the $50 it
> costs for a disk is worth the risk.
>
> PS:
> As I said the military destroy the disks with important stuff on and I
> have been there when they collect them up and leave you with a room full
> of computers without disk drives.
>
> Also if you have any personal data on me I expect you to destroy the
> drives or I will bring a prosecution under the data protection act (UK)
> for not using due care.

Facts? What facts have you stated? Proof? Have you provided any?
What you have provided are myths and old wives tales! The one about the
military destroying drives is often used to bolster claims that data can
be recovered from wiped drives, but the reason why the military or
others handling sensitive data destroy drives is much more mundane than
what you perceive.

Please provide real facts, not just hearsay. Provide names of companies
who can recover data on wiped drives. Provide academic papers showing
that files have been recovered on wiped drives. Provide testimony from
verifiable, reliable sources that they have recovered data from wiped
drives. I challenge you, or any one else reading these groups to
provide concrete proof that files can be recovered on wiped drives. I
repeat, no one has ever been able to recover files on securely wiped
drives, no one, not even the CIA or the US Department of Defense!

John