Windows 2000 cannot delete empty folders - until 'later'

  • Thread starter Thread starter John John
  • Start date Start date
legg wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:35:28 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
> wrote:
>
>
>>legg wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:39:42 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I would try Safe Mode and see if the problem exists there. Do you have
>>>>more than one hard disk? Does the problem exist on other hard disks, or
>>>>just on C:\
>>>
>>>
>>>Same thing in safe mode.
>>
>>I am starting to think that maybe disk corruption or that a failing disk
>>might be the cause of your problem?
>
>
> This is a new HD set up in a new system some months ago. Migration to this
> new system is forced now by the previous system hardware regularly
> 'killing' hard drives for the previous W98/W2K dual boot OS.
>
> The old hard drives are readable for data transfer as slaves in the new
> system hardware, and would probably run ok in new hardware, if I had
> back-up hardware that would still be gracious enough to run W98.
>
> I'm beginning to think that chasing down hardware for the latter option
> might be smarter, if the new W2K OS is going to continue be a daily
> headache, in simple operations like data file manipulation.

Believe me, I have been using Windows 2000 for many years on many
different computers and the problem that you describe is not very
common! I have worked with folders containing thousands and tens of
thousands of files (NTFS) and I have never had any such problems
deleting folders, be they full or empty! I am out of ideas as to the
cause of the problem, if I think of anything else I'll let you know.
Maybe the application that created the files and folders is at fault?

John
 
On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:47:18 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
wrote:

>> Using the W2K OS, I accessed T: on the second hard drive, relocated some
>> files into a new folder and was then not allowed to delete the old, empty
>> folder.
>
>So you aren't allowed to delete any folders at all? Anywhere? Until
>you reboot the machine?

If I copy the folder that cannot be deleted to a new location, I can delete
the copy.

If I copy any folder into a new location, I can delete the original.

If I recopy the same folder back to the old location, I can delete the
original copy.

If I cut the contents from a folder and paste it into another folder
elsewhere, with the same (or a different) name, I am prevented from
deleting the old empty folder.

RL
 
legg wrote:

> As it is, the same behavior is evidenced when manipulating files and
> folders on/within the T: archival FAT32 partition of the second hard drive,
> using the presently misbehaving W2K OS installed in the first ntfs
> partition of the first hard drive.

If nothing else works, this may be the way out:

How to perform an in-place upgrade of Windows 2000
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/292175

What an in-place Windows 2000 upgrade changes and what it does not change
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/306952/

John
 
On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:05:15 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
wrote:

>legg wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:35:28 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>legg wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:39:42 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I would try Safe Mode and see if the problem exists there. Do you have
>>>>>more than one hard disk? Does the problem exist on other hard disks, or
>>>>>just on C:\
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Same thing in safe mode.
>>>
>>>I am starting to think that maybe disk corruption or that a failing disk
>>>might be the cause of your problem?
>>
>>
>> This is a new HD set up in a new system some months ago. Migration to this
>> new system is forced now by the previous system hardware regularly
>> 'killing' hard drives for the previous W98/W2K dual boot OS.
>>
>> The old hard drives are readable for data transfer as slaves in the new
>> system hardware, and would probably run ok in new hardware, if I had
>> back-up hardware that would still be gracious enough to run W98.
>>
>> I'm beginning to think that chasing down hardware for the latter option
>> might be smarter, if the new W2K OS is going to continue be a daily
>> headache, in simple operations like data file manipulation.
>
>Believe me, I have been using Windows 2000 for many years on many
>different computers and the problem that you describe is not very
>common! I have worked with folders containing thousands and tens of
>thousands of files (NTFS) and I have never had any such problems
>deleting folders, be they full or empty! I am out of ideas as to the
>cause of the problem, if I think of anything else I'll let you know.
>Maybe the application that created the files and folders is at fault?
>
If there are any bright ideas out there, remove nospam from the 'reply to'
address and let me know by e-mail.

Perhaps it might have something to do with the recycle bin or find-fast
indexing, swap or pagefiles, maybe some kind of security/permissions
mis-setting that I'm unaware of.

Can't be too complex as the system is barely loaded with basic
applications, so far. It's nowhere near to serving usefully on my desk -
it's still just a glorified typewriter.

RL
 
legg wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:47:18 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
> wrote:
>
>
>>>Using the W2K OS, I accessed T: on the second hard drive, relocated some
>>>files into a new folder and was then not allowed to delete the old, empty
>>>folder.
>>
>>So you aren't allowed to delete any folders at all? Anywhere? Until
>>you reboot the machine?
>
>
> If I copy the folder that cannot be deleted to a new location, I can delete
> the copy.
>
> If I copy any folder into a new location, I can delete the original.
>
> If I recopy the same folder back to the old location, I can delete the
> original copy.
>
> If I cut the contents from a folder and paste it into another folder
> elsewhere, with the same (or a different) name, I am prevented from
> deleting the old empty folder.

What happens if you try to bypass the Recycle Bin? Press and Hold the
<Shift> key when you try to delete the folder, this is a permanent
deletion the folder will not go to the Recycle Bin, it will not be
recoverable. Can the folders be deleted that way?

John
 
On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:27:47 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
wrote:

>legg wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:47:18 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Using the W2K OS, I accessed T: on the second hard drive, relocated some
>>>>files into a new folder and was then not allowed to delete the old, empty
>>>>folder.
>>>
>>>So you aren't allowed to delete any folders at all? Anywhere? Until
>>>you reboot the machine?
>>
>>
>> If I copy the folder that cannot be deleted to a new location, I can delete
>> the copy.
>>
>> If I copy any folder into a new location, I can delete the original.
>>
>> If I recopy the same folder back to the old location, I can delete the
>> original copy.
>>
>> If I cut the contents from a folder and paste it into another folder
>> elsewhere, with the same (or a different) name, I am prevented from
>> deleting the old empty folder.
>
>What happens if you try to bypass the Recycle Bin? Press and Hold the
><Shift> key when you try to delete the folder, this is a permanent
>deletion the folder will not go to the Recycle Bin, it will not be
>recoverable. Can the folders be deleted that way?
>

No joy that way either.

RL
 
legg wrote:

> Perhaps it might have something to do with the recycle bin or find-fast
> indexing, swap or pagefiles, maybe some kind of security/permissions
> mis-setting that I'm unaware of.

Turn off indexing on all drives and see if things improve. I doubt that
the pagefile has anything to do with this. As for the Security
Permissions that would appear to have been eliminated as the folders can
be deleted safer a reboot, and, you say that the problem also exists on
a FAT32 drive, Security Permissions are written in the NTFS metadata,
they cannot be applied on FAT32 volumes, so that seems to be a dead end.
Copy and Paste is in fact a Move operation, so it appears that you
cannot delete empty folders after a Move operation. It's a mystery to
me, I would disable *everything* except the 6 critical Windows Services
and see if the problem persists.

John
 
On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:42:04 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
wrote:

>legg wrote:
>
>> Perhaps it might have something to do with the recycle bin or find-fast
>> indexing, swap or pagefiles, maybe some kind of security/permissions
>> mis-setting that I'm unaware of.
>
>Turn off indexing on all drives and see if things improve. I doubt that
>the pagefile has anything to do with this. As for the Security
>Permissions that would appear to have been eliminated as the folders can
>be deleted safer a reboot, and, you say that the problem also exists on
>a FAT32 drive, Security Permissions are written in the NTFS metadata,
>they cannot be applied on FAT32 volumes, so that seems to be a dead end.
> Copy and Paste is in fact a Move operation, so it appears that you
>cannot delete empty folders after a Move operation. It's a mystery to
>me, I would disable *everything* except the 6 critical Windows Services
>and see if the problem persists.
>

I set all directories listed in the indexing service to 'No' in the
'include in catalog' option (only C: and some folders on C were listed)

After reboot, a folder still wouldn't delete after it's contents were
removed, on C:.

Isn't running in safe mode the same as reducing windows services to
critical ones?

RL
 
legg wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:42:04 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
> wrote:
>
>
>>legg wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Perhaps it might have something to do with the recycle bin or find-fast
>>>indexing, swap or pagefiles, maybe some kind of security/permissions
>>>mis-setting that I'm unaware of.
>>
>>Turn off indexing on all drives and see if things improve. I doubt that
>>the pagefile has anything to do with this. As for the Security
>>Permissions that would appear to have been eliminated as the folders can
>>be deleted safer a reboot, and, you say that the problem also exists on
>>a FAT32 drive, Security Permissions are written in the NTFS metadata,
>>they cannot be applied on FAT32 volumes, so that seems to be a dead end.
>> Copy and Paste is in fact a Move operation, so it appears that you
>>cannot delete empty folders after a Move operation. It's a mystery to
>>me, I would disable *everything* except the 6 critical Windows Services
>>and see if the problem persists.
>>
>
>
> I set all directories listed in the indexing service to 'No' in the
> 'include in catalog' option (only C: and some folders on C were listed)
>
> After reboot, a folder still wouldn't delete after it's contents were
> removed, on C:.

And you can confirm that the same problem occurs on a FAT32 volume?


> Isn't running in safe mode the same as reducing windows services to
> critical ones?

It's supposed to.

John
 
On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:15:33 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
wrote:

>legg wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:42:04 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>legg wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Perhaps it might have something to do with the recycle bin or find-fast
>>>>indexing, swap or pagefiles, maybe some kind of security/permissions
>>>>mis-setting that I'm unaware of.
>>>
>>>Turn off indexing on all drives and see if things improve. I doubt that
>>>the pagefile has anything to do with this. As for the Security
>>>Permissions that would appear to have been eliminated as the folders can
>>>be deleted safer a reboot, and, you say that the problem also exists on
>>>a FAT32 drive, Security Permissions are written in the NTFS metadata,
>>>they cannot be applied on FAT32 volumes, so that seems to be a dead end.
>>> Copy and Paste is in fact a Move operation, so it appears that you
>>>cannot delete empty folders after a Move operation. It's a mystery to
>>>me, I would disable *everything* except the 6 critical Windows Services
>>>and see if the problem persists.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I set all directories listed in the indexing service to 'No' in the
>> 'include in catalog' option (only C: and some folders on C were listed)
>>
>> After reboot, a folder still wouldn't delete after it's contents were
>> removed, on C:.
>
>And you can confirm that the same problem occurs on a FAT32 volume?
>

Reconfirmed this on the L: partition.
Also retested copying effects. Copying the contents to a new folder leaves
the original undeletable. So it's not just a cutting transfer ('move') that
produces the anomaly.

RL
 
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