tewkes <tewkes@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

> Problem still not solved...

 

Did you plug your camera into someone else's computer that's running

Vista and see what happens?

 

I've had no problems, running both Vista Ultimate Edition 64 bit and

Vista Home Premium 32 bit on my previous computer and my current HP

M7750N Media Center computer. My camera uses xD cards but I can try a

Sony Memory Stick if that'll help any?

 

I use a card reader FWIW.

 

 

 

--

XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups

The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 20:22:03 -0700, tewkes

<tewkes@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>Problem still not solved... here are some responses to questions posted in

>this forum.

 

Because I was curious I spent about an hour searching on the web on

this problem. Sadly, like the calculating time remaining issue a LOT

of people seem to have your 30% of JPEG corrupted problem, yet nobody

yet has pinned down what the heck is causing it.

 

Since it is random and not even downloading the same image reproduces

the problem I would think that narrows it down to hardware or just a

very bad run of bad luck where the memory on each card is bad. I would

lean towards the card reader is bad on either the camera or PC end. If

you have the option have you tried to format one of the SK cards on

the computer?

 

Does the camera support Vista? Sadly you're stuck in the middle of a

finger pointing contest Where HP will blame Microsoft and Microsoft

will blame HP and both with sooner later probably try to blame whoever

made the camera if that's a different brand.

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 20:22:03 -0700, tewkes <tewkes@discussions.microsoft.com>

wrote:

>Problem still not solved... here are some responses to questions posted in

>this forum.

>

>1) All hard drives - external and internal are NTFS, not FAT formatted.

Won't state for fact, but my 250 meg external USB drive formats to FAT. It

could be possible yours should be FAT also..

>2) Issue is still happening even on new pictures I take. This happens

>whether downloaded to PC by USB or by the internal card reader. Always using

>SD card, but I've tried 3 cards all with the same results. About 1 in 5

>pictures are goofy now.

30% bad, but only sometimes. Not a good starting point to troubleshoot the

problem. Hmm. How many pix and what resolution can you use with the SD card ?

Also how many pix & what resolution ARE you using ?

What program are you using to move the pictures off the SD card ? Hmm. This

is something I hadn't taken into account. I have 2 digital cameras, but no

removable cards. I use a straight USB cable from cameras to computer. I assume

that you have a cable to plug into the camera to the computer leaving the SD

card in the camera. IOW: 30% - 70% . The camera came with built in memory [30%]

and you added a ???? meg SD card [70%]. I'm wondering if it's possible that's

the problem... Try taking some pix without the SD card, and make the transfers

and see how transfers fare then.

If that shows a problem [you said 3 different SD cards same problem] it might

be the interface in the camera that links the SD card to the camera.

>3) SD cards always formatted on camera, not on PC.

Just a guess, but that wouldn't suggest NTFS format.

NTFS didn't exist 10 years ago either. or USB 2.

>4) Another strange fact I've noticed... not always the same pictures have

>the problems. If I download, then put the SD card back in the camera and

>then re-download to PC, different images are corrupt each time. Usually the

>same, but sometimes okay and sometimes the same image is not okay.

Sounds like contacts in the camera may be arcing. Rubber pencil eraser, or if

the SD card is hard to reach you might need the electronics spray cleaner.

Ear Q-tips and denatured alcohol, but don't drip the alcohol into the works.

hold the works over head, and wipe, allowing the alcohol to use gravity and

drop straight down without settling in the camera innards. or if there is a

reputable camera dealer, let them do the cleaning and explain the problem..

 

What do you use to view / manipulate the images on the SD Card ? Windows

Explorer ? Have you tried IV to manipulate the images on the SD card ?

>5) I understand the concepts of troubleshooting. I've done all I can to

>rule out certain things. So far it's down to the PC, which could include

>Vista. PC is HP a6110n if that helps. BIOS version 5.08 5/4/2007.

I was under the impression you have 100% success on the XP, but something with

a USB cable and a Sony USB 40g drive causes corruption copying to the Vista

except when plugging the SD card directly into the Vista.

Does the SD card have 100% of the images, or just 70% of the images ? I covered

most above.

>6) I'd be happy to have a "professional" look at the PC, but I'd sure like

>to know who qualifies as "professional" these days. I've contacted

>Microsoft, they tell me to contact HP (after hours on hold of course). I get

>in touch with HP (apparently in India), the guy tells me it's going to cost

>money just to have me talk to someone. I say forget it. Why is it I buy a

>$1000 computer and nobody will touch it. If the auto industry was like this

>with their warranties, it would not be accepted at all. I'd be happy to get

>some references for "professionals" that can speak English and can actual be

>helpful and not just have be try things I've already tried.

I spent an entire day with an Indian M$ pro with my 1 FREE support. I knew more

than he did, and spent 90% of the time figuring out what he was saying. I don't

waste any time with M$. I'm just glad this thing doesn't use the validation

stuff.

>Don't get me wrong, this forum has provided me some insight and I'm

>appreciative of the free help I'm getting. I just can't believe the problem

>I'm having is that hard to solve and here it is almost 6 weeks later and I'm

>no further than I was with the issue.

I might suggest you try and repost the entire problem. Prep your post offline

omitting nothing, and maybe you can snag someone new here. Or do I like do when

I get a real nasty problem, and take it over to the GRC tech news group. I

seldom use them, cause I seldom have a problem I can't solve. But I have used

them twice in the past, and had things fixed after the first few replies.

>"Kerry Brown" wrote:

>

>> Can you view other jpg files OK? Can you download the files from one of the

>> cameras on another computer? Are they OK on that computer? Can you then

>> transfer them to the Vista computer? Are they still OK?. When

>> troubleshooting you have to come up with a plan to eliminate possibilities

>> one at a time. So far the the only possibilities you have eliminated are the

>> camera and the SD card, as it happens with two different cameras and SD

>> cards. You now have to bring another computer into play to eliminate the

>> computer. At this point it really does sound like a problem with USB

>> transfers. That is what all of the things you have tested have in common.

>> They have all been used for transfers to/from this computer. The first I'd

>> do is confirm that the USB drive, cameras, and SD cards work for read/writes

>> on another computer.

>>

>> --

>> Kerry Brown

>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User

>> http://www.vistahelp.ca

>>

>>

>> "tewkes" <tewkes@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>> news:4F2A6F19-DE61-4672-B472-CD8548949A60@microsoft.com...

>> > Why is everyone ruling out Vista so quickly. First, the USB drive was not

>> > connected to my old PC when it crashed and burned. Second, even when the

>> > USB

>> > is disconnected from the new PC and I download photos direct from a camera

>> > (2

>> > kinds) they are corrupt. These are new photos also that I just took

>> > today,

>> > not old photos. Also, I formatted both SD cards prior to doing this test.

Well Vista is a horse of a different color. I had to have BellSouth send a tech

to get online when I hooked up the HP Vista HP. They had to add a pigtail on

the modem line to get it online. where as it was online 1-2 years on the XP

just fine and no mods.

>> >

>> > "Mike Hall - MVP" wrote:

>> >

>> >> It would appear that whatever took out your main hard drive also took a

>> >> shot

>> >> at your USB drive too.. I doubt very much that Vista was the culprit..

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> "tewkes" <tewkes@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>> >> news:2CB0F141-2A20-4BD0-B7EC-0FB7115CF1B2@microsoft.com...

>> >> > My HD crashed last week on my old PC. I was not too worried about it

>> >> > since I

>> >> > had been backing all pictures up to an external USB drive. Bought a

>> >> > new

>> >> > HP

>> >> > PC with Vista Home Premium. Now when I view JPG files from the

>> >> > external

>> >> > drive they appear with lines in them and are all jumbled up. Not all

>> >> > files,

>> >> > but about 30% of them are like this.

>> >> >

>> >> > Is not...

>> >> > program -- tried IRfanview, Xnview, many others

>> >> > memory card (SD) - tried several

>> >> > camera - tried at least 3

>> >> > method of download - tried USB and SD card direct in PC memory reader

>> >> >

>> >> > Even when I put the Ext. drive on an XP laptop, the images all appear

>> >> > the

>> >> > same now. I have copied and pasted to another drive in the same PC and

>> >> > even

>> >> > other PCs and no difference.

try and layout what works and what doesn't work in some sort of form layout ie:

SD USB drive camera

Vista fails works fails etc...

XP works works works

extrapolate on images how many & resolution. Where on the card are the bad ones

located ? Instead of thinking it's the card, it could be the camera that's only

filling 70% of the card with good stuff..

You did say it's the same on 3 cards...

>> >> > A few other strange items related... all thumbnails appear okay, but

>> >> > when opened they are jumbled. Sometimes the files look different - ie. one

>> >> > file could be jumbled in one program

[which program is good ?]

>, then okay in another program,

>> >> > sometimes even in the same program if I log off and back in the files appear

>> >> > different.

Log off ???? you mean quit the program ?

>> >> > I can send copies of the files if anyone is interested. Please help.

there's plenty of free web space available for posting images. Can't hurt to

see what we're talking about.

>> >> > I am very concerned that 30% of all photos I have saved the past 9-10 years

>> >> > are destroyed.

 

That could be a possibility, but I don't believe SD cards, Digital cameras, or

USB drives existed 10 years ago.

 

You can pick up a $15.00 Radio shack digital spy camera. Don't expect any kind

of worthwhile photos. It worked fine on my XP, and now on the Vista. But that

could rule out a camera and transfers to the computers as the problem.

It's about the size of a Jumbo Sharpie. Uses 2 AAA batteries.

And comes with software to download from the camera.

========================================================

I'm entirely under the impression it's the fact that the SD card is only a

portion of the internal camera memory. The larger portion, but still just a

portion.

leaving the SD card in the camera, what happens with a transfer ? # of pix, and

resolution, and # good and # bad...

 

transfer from the camera with the SD card removed. What happens ? # of pix, and

resolution, and # good and # bad...

--

more pix @ http://members.toast.net/cbminfo/index.html

Have you tried copying a good picture several times (Just changing the

file name each time you save)?

 

Have you tried the same with a bad picture?

 

If not and you decide to try does the good one eventually go bad? Do

the bad ones change in any way (Not necessarily get worse).

 

Do any of the files' "Properties" change between a good copy and a bad

copy, e.g. file size? You may not see this in the step above but do you

see changes between a good and a bad copy from the camera. Are there any

changes between good and bad when loaded into IV etc?

 

See the drive to same drive copy is using the same hardware, from

anything else to that drive is likely going via other chips.

 

 

(I believe you said the bad ones stay bad when copied back to XP but

correct me if that's not right).

 

Do you transfer much of anything else to the Vista machine, aside from

comparing properties it would be a PITA to (Say) listen to 10 copies of

an MP3 for example but if this problem is showing up copying from a

floppy then you don't need very big files for it to happen.

 

 

 

 

tewkes wrote:

> One other thing I thought of that may help dispute this as a USB issue...

>

> Even old pictures that I took 8 years ago on a floppy drive that have not

> recently been xferred by USB have this issue. This is true of those files on

> internal and external hard drives.

>

>

>

> "Kerry Brown" wrote:

>

>> Can you view other jpg files OK? Can you download the files from one of the

>> cameras on another computer? Are they OK on that computer? Can you then

>> transfer them to the Vista computer? Are they still OK?. When

>> troubleshooting you have to come up with a plan to eliminate possibilities

>> one at a time. So far the the only possibilities you have eliminated are the

>> camera and the SD card, as it happens with two different cameras and SD

>> cards. You now have to bring another computer into play to eliminate the

>> computer. At this point it really does sound like a problem with USB

>> transfers. That is what all of the things you have tested have in common.

>> They have all been used for transfers to/from this computer. The first I'd

>> do is confirm that the USB drive, cameras, and SD cards work for read/writes

>> on another computer.

>>

>> --

>> Kerry Brown

>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User

>> http://www.vistahelp.ca

>>

>>

>> "tewkes" <tewkes@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>> news:4F2A6F19-DE61-4672-B472-CD8548949A60@microsoft.com...

>>> Why is everyone ruling out Vista so quickly. First, the USB drive was not

>>> connected to my old PC when it crashed and burned. Second, even when the

>>> USB

>>> is disconnected from the new PC and I download photos direct from a camera

>>> (2

>>> kinds) they are corrupt. These are new photos also that I just took

>>> today,

>>> not old photos. Also, I formatted both SD cards prior to doing this test.

>>>

>>> "Mike Hall - MVP" wrote:

>>>

>>>> It would appear that whatever took out your main hard drive also took a

>>>> shot

>>>> at your USB drive too.. I doubt very much that Vista was the culprit..

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> "tewkes" <tewkes@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>>>> news:2CB0F141-2A20-4BD0-B7EC-0FB7115CF1B2@microsoft.com...

>>>>> My HD crashed last week on my old PC. I was not too worried about it

>>>>> since I

>>>>> had been backing all pictures up to an external USB drive. Bought a

>>>>> new

>>>>> HP

>>>>> PC with Vista Home Premium. Now when I view JPG files from the

>>>>> external

>>>>> drive they appear with lines in them and are all jumbled up. Not all

>>>>> files,

>>>>> but about 30% of them are like this.

>>>>>

>>>>> Is not...

>>>>> program -- tried IRfanview, Xnview, many others

>>>>> memory card (SD) - tried several

>>>>> camera - tried at least 3

>>>>> method of download - tried USB and SD card direct in PC memory reader

>>>>>

>>>>> Even when I put the Ext. drive on an XP laptop, the images all appear

>>>>> the

>>>>> same now. I have copied and pasted to another drive in the same PC and

>>>>> even

>>>>> other PCs and no difference.

>>>>>

>>>>> A few other strange items related... all thumbnails appear okay, but

>>>>> when

>>>>> opened they are jumbled. Sometimes the files look different - ie. one

>>>>> file

>>>>> could be jumbled in one program, then okay in another program,

>>>>> sometimes

>>>>> even

>>>>> in the same program if I log off and back in the files appear

>>>>> different.

>>>>>

>>>>> I can send copies of the files if anyone is interested. Please help.

>>>>> I

>>>>> am

>>>>> very concerned that 30% of all photos I have saved the past 9-10 years

>>>>> are

>>>>> destroyed.

>>>>>

>>>>> Thanks for your help.

>>>>>

>>>>> Kris

>>>> --

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Mike Hall

>>>> MS MVP Windows Shell/User

>>>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

Charlie Tame wrote:

 

 

Oops, forgot to add that I am wondering if there's something trying to

do a smart write ahead and it's writing something to the drive's buffer

which is not actually making it to the disk but instead being

overwritten as a result of some bus timing error, this could well be

random or dependent on load. I appreciate this is guessing at pretty

long odds but we're running out of easy options here :)

 

It is odd that it seems only to be pictures.

I would try to isolate the problem to either hardware or sofware by

replacing the hard drive by another one and installing an earlier

version of Windows. Then if the problem still persists, it's probably

a hardware problem if the problem goes away, it's a software problem.

 

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 20:22:03 -0700, tewkes

<tewkes@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>Problem still not solved... here are some responses to questions posted in

>this forum.

>

>1) All hard drives - external and internal are NTFS, not FAT formatted.

>2) Issue is still happening even on new pictures I take. This happens

>whether downloaded to PC by USB or by the internal card reader. Always using

>SD card, but I've tried 3 cards all with the same results. About 1 in 5

>pictures are goofy now.

>3) SD cards always formatted on camera, not on PC.

>4) Another strange fact I've noticed... not always the same pictures have

>the problems. If I download, then put the SD card back in the camera and

>then re-download to PC, different images are corrupt each time. Usually the

>same, but sometimes okay and sometimes the same image is not okay.

>5) I understand the concepts of troubleshooting. I've done all I can to

>rule out certain things. So far it's down to the PC, which could include

>Vista. PC is HP a6110n if that helps. BIOS version 5.08 5/4/2007.

>6) I'd be happy to have a "professional" look at the PC, but I'd sure like

>to know who qualifies as "professional" these days. I've contacted

>Microsoft, they tell me to contact HP (after hours on hold of course). I get

>in touch with HP (apparently in India), the guy tells me it's going to cost

>money just to have me talk to someone. I say forget it. Why is it I buy a

>$1000 computer and nobody will touch it. If the auto industry was like this

>with their warranties, it would not be accepted at all. I'd be happy to get

>some references for "professionals" that can speak English and can actual be

>helpful and not just have be try things I've already tried.

>

>Don't get me wrong, this forum has provided me some insight and I'm

>appreciative of the free help I'm getting. I just can't believe the problem

>I'm having is that hard to solve and here it is almost 6 weeks later and I'm

>no further than I was with the issue.

>

>If someone can solve this problem, I'll buy them a 6 pack of their favorite

>beverage.

>

>Thanks.

>

>tewkes

>

>

>"Kerry Brown" wrote:

>

>> Can you view other jpg files OK? Can you download the files from one of the

>> cameras on another computer? Are they OK on that computer? Can you then

>> transfer them to the Vista computer? Are they still OK?. When

>> troubleshooting you have to come up with a plan to eliminate possibilities

>> one at a time. So far the the only possibilities you have eliminated are the

>> camera and the SD card, as it happens with two different cameras and SD

>> cards. You now have to bring another computer into play to eliminate the

>> computer. At this point it really does sound like a problem with USB

>> transfers. That is what all of the things you have tested have in common.

>> They have all been used for transfers to/from this computer. The first I'd

>> do is confirm that the USB drive, cameras, and SD cards work for read/writes

>> on another computer.

>>

>> --

>> Kerry Brown

>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User

>> http://www.vistahelp.ca

>>

>>

>> "tewkes" <tewkes@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>> news:4F2A6F19-DE61-4672-B472-CD8548949A60@microsoft.com...

>> > Why is everyone ruling out Vista so quickly. First, the USB drive was not

>> > connected to my old PC when it crashed and burned. Second, even when the

>> > USB

>> > is disconnected from the new PC and I download photos direct from a camera

>> > (2

>> > kinds) they are corrupt. These are new photos also that I just took

>> > today,

>> > not old photos. Also, I formatted both SD cards prior to doing this test.

>> >

>> > "Mike Hall - MVP" wrote:

>> >

>> >> It would appear that whatever took out your main hard drive also took a

>> >> shot

>> >> at your USB drive too.. I doubt very much that Vista was the culprit..

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> "tewkes" <tewkes@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>> >> news:2CB0F141-2A20-4BD0-B7EC-0FB7115CF1B2@microsoft.com...

>> >> > My HD crashed last week on my old PC. I was not too worried about it

>> >> > since I

>> >> > had been backing all pictures up to an external USB drive. Bought a

>> >> > new

>> >> > HP

>> >> > PC with Vista Home Premium. Now when I view JPG files from the

>> >> > external

>> >> > drive they appear with lines in them and are all jumbled up. Not all

>> >> > files,

>> >> > but about 30% of them are like this.

>> >> >

>> >> > Is not...

>> >> > program -- tried IRfanview, Xnview, many others

>> >> > memory card (SD) - tried several

>> >> > camera - tried at least 3

>> >> > method of download - tried USB and SD card direct in PC memory reader

>> >> >

>> >> > Even when I put the Ext. drive on an XP laptop, the images all appear

>> >> > the

>> >> > same now. I have copied and pasted to another drive in the same PC and

>> >> > even

>> >> > other PCs and no difference.

>> >> >

>> >> > A few other strange items related... all thumbnails appear okay, but

>> >> > when

>> >> > opened they are jumbled. Sometimes the files look different - ie. one

>> >> > file

>> >> > could be jumbled in one program, then okay in another program,

>> >> > sometimes

>> >> > even

>> >> > in the same program if I log off and back in the files appear

>> >> > different.

>> >> >

>> >> > I can send copies of the files if anyone is interested. Please help.

>> >> > I

>> >> > am

>> >> > very concerned that 30% of all photos I have saved the past 9-10 years

>> >> > are

>> >> > destroyed.

>> >> >

>> >> > Thanks for your help.

>> >> >

>> >> > Kris

>> >>

>> >> --

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Mike Hall

>> >> MS MVP Windows Shell/User

>> >> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>>

Well, I downgraded my system to XP and the problem has completely

disappeared. All of my picture transfers are now100% accurate. Exact

same hardware. Looks like it's definitely a software problem with

Vista. My guess would be incompatible drivers for the USB devices.

 

So I have decided to stick with XP for now.

 

The downgrade to XP has however caused me other problems and I have had

to locate nVIDIA motherboard chipset drivers and Realtek audio

management software to make it work. The last step is to locate an XP

video driver for my ATI card which i'm having trouble finding, but

that's another topic. Irritating enough problem though, as I can not

change my screen resolution and my pictures appear to be horizontally

stretched (but at least they are not corrupted). The video controllers

in the device manager have yellow question marks indicating no drivers

are installed. I think I may have one of those new AMD video cards

that are comparable to the ATI Radeon XT X1600. My biggest fear is

that XP drivers may not exist for it? Once again, I have an Acer

Aspire E380 with AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ @ 2200 MHz.

 

 

--

wbarbourca

------------------------------------------------------------------------

wbarbourca's Profile: http://forums.techarena.in/member.php?userid=29532

View this thread: http://forums.techarena.in/showthread.php?t=792073

 

http://forums.techarena.in

On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 06:18:28 +0530, wbarbourca <wbarbourca.2wgsre@DoNotSpam.com>

wrote:

>The downgrade to XP has however caused me other problems and I have had

>to locate nVIDIA motherboard chipset drivers and Realtek audio

>management software to make it work. The last step is to locate an XP

>video driver for my ATI card which i'm having trouble finding, but

Just go to ATI, but don't ask me for any ATI help. I had ATI for 6 years too

long.

--

more pix @ http://members.toast.net/cbminfo/index.html

Found it! The drivers are on an AMD site, not ATI:

 

http://ati.amd.com/support/driver.html

 

Thanks anyways, I am fully up and running now!

 

 

--

wbarbourca

------------------------------------------------------------------------

wbarbourca's Profile: http://forums.techarena.in/member.php?userid=29532

View this thread: http://forums.techarena.in/showthread.php?t=792073

 

http://forums.techarena.in

Here's another frustrating update:

 

1) Still have the problem. Absolutely no changes since before. Still about

20-30% of pictures I download (any method possible) from both digital cameras

(SD and Memory Stick media).

2) I completely blew and and reformatted the 2 storage HDs I use (1 internal

+ 1 external). Both NTFS formatted. The only drive not reformatted was my

main OS drive.

3) I do not know anyone with Vista, so I have yet to test downloading photos

direct from camera to another PC with Vista. I have tried downloading photos

to an XP laptop with no differences seen. Pictures still jumbled.

4) As far as I can tell it's jus jpg files still, but I have not opened

every mp3 on my PC to confirm integrity.

 

I'm not getting anywhere with this at all and becoming more and more

frustrated daily. I have considered all recommendations so far to no avail.

 

Could it be some strange virus doing this? I have Norton Antivirus with up

to date definitions. Grasping for straws here.

 

I did just get a blue screen error for the first time on my new computer

today. Stated it was a kcom.sys page fault error. Not sure if it is related.

 

Thanks again for all of the help and suggestions. Keep them coming.

 

tewkes

 

"tewkes" wrote:

> Problem still not solved... here are some responses to questions posted in

> this forum.

>

> 1) All hard drives - external and internal are NTFS, not FAT formatted.

> 2) Issue is still happening even on new pictures I take. This happens

> whether downloaded to PC by USB or by the internal card reader. Always using

> SD card, but I've tried 3 cards all with the same results. About 1 in 5

> pictures are goofy now.

> 3) SD cards always formatted on camera, not on PC.

> 4) Another strange fact I've noticed... not always the same pictures have

> the problems. If I download, then put the SD card back in the camera and

> then re-download to PC, different images are corrupt each time. Usually the

> same, but sometimes okay and sometimes the same image is not okay.

> 5) I understand the concepts of troubleshooting. I've done all I can to

> rule out certain things. So far it's down to the PC, which could include

> Vista. PC is HP a6110n if that helps. BIOS version 5.08 5/4/2007.

> 6) I'd be happy to have a "professional" look at the PC, but I'd sure like

> to know who qualifies as "professional" these days. I've contacted

> Microsoft, they tell me to contact HP (after hours on hold of course). I get

> in touch with HP (apparently in India), the guy tells me it's going to cost

> money just to have me talk to someone. I say forget it. Why is it I buy a

> $1000 computer and nobody will touch it. If the auto industry was like this

> with their warranties, it would not be accepted at all. I'd be happy to get

> some references for "professionals" that can speak English and can actual be

> helpful and not just have be try things I've already tried.

>

> Don't get me wrong, this forum has provided me some insight and I'm

> appreciative of the free help I'm getting. I just can't believe the problem

> I'm having is that hard to solve and here it is almost 6 weeks later and I'm

> no further than I was with the issue.

>

> If someone can solve this problem, I'll buy them a 6 pack of their favorite

> beverage.

>

> Thanks.

>

> tewkes

>

>

> "Kerry Brown" wrote:

>

> > Can you view other jpg files OK? Can you download the files from one of the

> > cameras on another computer? Are they OK on that computer? Can you then

> > transfer them to the Vista computer? Are they still OK?. When

> > troubleshooting you have to come up with a plan to eliminate possibilities

> > one at a time. So far the the only possibilities you have eliminated are the

> > camera and the SD card, as it happens with two different cameras and SD

> > cards. You now have to bring another computer into play to eliminate the

> > computer. At this point it really does sound like a problem with USB

> > transfers. That is what all of the things you have tested have in common.

> > They have all been used for transfers to/from this computer. The first I'd

> > do is confirm that the USB drive, cameras, and SD cards work for read/writes

> > on another computer.

> >

> > --

> > Kerry Brown

> > Microsoft MVP - Shell/User

> > http://www.vistahelp.ca

> >

> >

> > "tewkes" <tewkes@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> > news:4F2A6F19-DE61-4672-B472-CD8548949A60@microsoft.com...

> > > Why is everyone ruling out Vista so quickly. First, the USB drive was not

> > > connected to my old PC when it crashed and burned. Second, even when the

> > > USB

> > > is disconnected from the new PC and I download photos direct from a camera

> > > (2

> > > kinds) they are corrupt. These are new photos also that I just took

> > > today,

> > > not old photos. Also, I formatted both SD cards prior to doing this test.

> > >

> > > "Mike Hall - MVP" wrote:

> > >

> > >> It would appear that whatever took out your main hard drive also took a

> > >> shot

> > >> at your USB drive too.. I doubt very much that Vista was the culprit..

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> "tewkes" <tewkes@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> > >> news:2CB0F141-2A20-4BD0-B7EC-0FB7115CF1B2@microsoft.com...

> > >> > My HD crashed last week on my old PC. I was not too worried about it

> > >> > since I

> > >> > had been backing all pictures up to an external USB drive. Bought a

> > >> > new

> > >> > HP

> > >> > PC with Vista Home Premium. Now when I view JPG files from the

> > >> > external

> > >> > drive they appear with lines in them and are all jumbled up. Not all

> > >> > files,

> > >> > but about 30% of them are like this.

> > >> >

> > >> > Is not...

> > >> > program -- tried IRfanview, Xnview, many others

> > >> > memory card (SD) - tried several

> > >> > camera - tried at least 3

> > >> > method of download - tried USB and SD card direct in PC memory reader

> > >> >

> > >> > Even when I put the Ext. drive on an XP laptop, the images all appear

> > >> > the

> > >> > same now. I have copied and pasted to another drive in the same PC and

> > >> > even

> > >> > other PCs and no difference.

> > >> >

> > >> > A few other strange items related... all thumbnails appear okay, but

> > >> > when

> > >> > opened they are jumbled. Sometimes the files look different - ie. one

> > >> > file

> > >> > could be jumbled in one program, then okay in another program,

> > >> > sometimes

> > >> > even

> > >> > in the same program if I log off and back in the files appear

> > >> > different.

> > >> >

> > >> > I can send copies of the files if anyone is interested. Please help.

> > >> > I

> > >> > am

> > >> > very concerned that 30% of all photos I have saved the past 9-10 years

> > >> > are

> > >> > destroyed.

> > >> >

> > >> > Thanks for your help.

> > >> >

> > >> > Kris

> > >>

> > >> --

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> Mike Hall

> > >> MS MVP Windows Shell/User

> > >> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> >

I'm pretty sure it's not a virus. At this point in time, I would have to

say from my own similar experience that the USB drivers in Vista are

simply not compatible with your devices, which are pre-Vista.

 

I have noted that the transfer problems occur with all image file types

and video file types. I have never seen a problem with music files,

text files or MS Office files.

 

I have also concluded that there are three facets to this corruption

problem:

 

1) A Vista application will read and display an image from the device

and it will appear corrupted on the Vista machine because of a bad read

operation over USB. However, the file on the device is still actually

fine.

 

2) A file transfer or copy has been performed over USB. If not

successful, the file will be permanently corrupted on the receiving

end.

 

3) If the Vista application rewrites the file (e.g. Photoshop working

with a file that resides on the device), if the save is corrupted on

the USB write, the file will be permanently corrupted on the device.

 

In my view, if the manufacturers have not provided updated drivers or

firmware for Vista compatibility then you have 2 choices:

 

1) downgrade your OS to XP like I did, or

 

2) upgrade your peripheral equipment (cameras, external storage

devices, USB sticks, etc.) with proven units tested with Vista.

 

Unfortunately, what has already been corrupted during the transfers to

Vista will stay corrupted, even if you later try to download the files

to an XP machine. You need to be sure about which files on your device

are now corrupt and which are not.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

--

wbarbourca

------------------------------------------------------------------------

wbarbourca's Profile: http://forums.techarena.in/member.php?userid=29532

View this thread: http://forums.techarena.in/showthread.php?t=792073

 

http://forums.techarena.in

On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 19:18:01 -0700, tewkes <tewkes@discussions.microsoft.com>

wrote:

>Here's another frustrating update:

>

>1) Still have the problem. Absolutely no changes since before. Still about

>20-30% of pictures I download (any method possible) from both digital cameras

>(SD and Memory Stick media).

>2) I completely blew and and reformatted the 2 storage HDs I use (1 internal

>+ 1 external). Both NTFS formatted. The only drive not reformatted was my

>main OS drive.

>3) I do not know anyone with Vista, so I have yet to test downloading photos

>direct from camera to another PC with Vista. I have tried downloading photos

>to an XP laptop with no differences seen. Pictures still jumbled.

you could always take it to a local store or shop that sells Vistas and ask if

they'd let you download to their machine.

Is Vista up to date ?

>4) As far as I can tell it's jus jpg files still, but I have not opened

>every mp3 on my PC to confirm integrity.

>

>I'm not getting anywhere with this at all and becoming more and more

>frustrated daily. I have considered all recommendations so far to no avail.

Did you take this to a camera news group ?

I know you didn't take this to the GRC news group forum like I suggested.

 

Something about your statement above doesn't ring true.

IIRC, you said you had 100% correct transfers by plugging the stick directly

into the XP, can't recall if you plugged it into the Vista.. But IIRC you said

transfers to the XP worked fine.

 

You never did say how pictures taken with NO STICKS installed in the camera

worked..

IE: Sticks are an accessory to EXPAND the total number of images you can take.

you quoted 30% & 70%. That would be about right for the division of images

INSIDE a camera. 30% on built in memory, and 70% to the stick.

When you use a stick, I'm guessing they disable internal memory so when you

remove the stick, you remove ALL the images.

When was the last time you formatted the internal memory [30%] of the camera

?

>Could it be some strange virus doing this? I have Norton Antivirus with up

>to date definitions. Grasping for straws here.

>

>I did just get a blue screen error for the first time on my new computer

>today. Stated it was a kcom.sys page fault error. Not sure if it is related.

learn to google. google for kcom.sys.

 

--

more pix @ http://members.toast.net/cbminfo/index.html

Thanks for the insight. This could be plausible in my situation as well

since all of my old jpgs were backed up on a WD MyBook hooked up via USB 2.0

to my new Vista device. Even those files that were on the My Book prior to

Vista now appear 30% corrupted. You're absolutely right about the files

still appearing correct on the cameras even if they show corrupt on the Vista

machine.

 

What I don't understand is that both cameras are fairly new. The Canon just

came out about 4-5 months ago. Also, why if this is the problem, don't more

people have this issue than are reported? I have used Firewire to download

videos from my Sony Camcorder and that has had no corruption issues at all,

so this must be related only to the USB drivers.

 

I cringe at having to downgrade OS to XP, but if that solved your problem

than it's worth it. I really wish M$ would read these and do something about

the issue in Vista.

 

Thanks again!

 

tewkes

 

"wbarbourca" wrote:

>

> I'm pretty sure it's not a virus. At this point in time, I would have to

> say from my own similar experience that the USB drivers in Vista are

> simply not compatible with your devices, which are pre-Vista.

>

> I have noted that the transfer problems occur with all image file types

> and video file types. I have never seen a problem with music files,

> text files or MS Office files.

>

> I have also concluded that there are three facets to this corruption

> problem:

>

> 1) A Vista application will read and display an image from the device

> and it will appear corrupted on the Vista machine because of a bad read

> operation over USB. However, the file on the device is still actually

> fine.

>

> 2) A file transfer or copy has been performed over USB. If not

> successful, the file will be permanently corrupted on the receiving

> end.

>

> 3) If the Vista application rewrites the file (e.g. Photoshop working

> with a file that resides on the device), if the save is corrupted on

> the USB write, the file will be permanently corrupted on the device.

>

> In my view, if the manufacturers have not provided updated drivers or

> firmware for Vista compatibility then you have 2 choices:

>

> 1) downgrade your OS to XP like I did, or

>

> 2) upgrade your peripheral equipment (cameras, external storage

> devices, USB sticks, etc.) with proven units tested with Vista.

>

> Unfortunately, what has already been corrupted during the transfers to

> Vista will stay corrupted, even if you later try to download the files

> to an XP machine. You need to be sure about which files on your device

> are now corrupt and which are not.

>

> Hope this helps.

>

>

> --

> wbarbourca

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> wbarbourca's Profile: http://forums.techarena.in/member.php?userid=29532

> View this thread: http://forums.techarena.in/showthread.php?t=792073

>

> http://forums.techarena.in

>

>

On Sat, 8 Sep 2007 07:12:01 -0700, tewkes <tewkes@discussions.microsoft.com>

wrote:

>What I don't understand is that both cameras are fairly new. The Canon just

>came out about 4-5 months ago. Also, why if this is the problem, don't more

That could be border line Vista compatible, and something that new should have

come with some sort of install CD with programs designed specifically for

removing images from the camera. IOW: The drivers for your camera are on that

CD.

 

I'd like to see a diagram of what you're talking about when the USB transfers

fail,, but the XP transfers don't.

 

simple box diagram would work...

 

XP Vista

------------ --------------

| SD |<-usb------>| SD |

------------ ---------------

Or an actual picture of the setup that fails.

--

more pix @ http://members.toast.net/cbminfo/index.html

Kris,

 

I have noticed that over 2 dozen of my jpg photos have been corrupted

or damaged too. I don't understand what is happening. I "do" suspect

Vista as the culprit.

 

I am a part time wedding photographer and rely on my hard drive for

storing photos right after an event. In the event of a hard drive

failure, I alwasy back up all of the original phtos to a DVD-R ...but

how do I know that the original jpg's won't be corrupt once they are

copied from my flash card to my hard drive?

 

This has never happend to me before when i used windows xp. This

problem has only come up once I started using Windows Vista. The

corrupt jpg photos are occuring on my new HP Pavilion dv6000 series

notebook (vista home premium, pre-installed), and my homemade home-

theater pc (with vista home premium oem).

 

The thumbnail photos appear fine, but when I double click on a corrupt

jpg, it will show a few lines of the photo, and the remaining photos

are grey.

 

 

Microsoft better have an answer for this.

 

-george

gnassif@ptd.net wrote:

> Kris,

>

> I have noticed that over 2 dozen of my jpg photos have been corrupted

> or damaged too. I don't understand what is happening. I "do" suspect

> Vista as the culprit.

>

> I am a part time wedding photographer and rely on my hard drive for

> storing photos right after an event. In the event of a hard drive

> failure, I alwasy back up all of the original phtos to a DVD-R ...but

> how do I know that the original jpg's won't be corrupt once they are

> copied from my flash card to my hard drive?

>

> This has never happend to me before when i used windows xp. This

> problem has only come up once I started using Windows Vista. The

> corrupt jpg photos are occuring on my new HP Pavilion dv6000 series

> notebook (vista home premium, pre-installed), and my homemade home-

> theater pc (with vista home premium oem).

>

> The thumbnail photos appear fine, but when I double click on a corrupt

> jpg, it will show a few lines of the photo, and the remaining photos

> are grey.

>

>

> Microsoft better have an answer for this.

>

> -george

>

 

 

Have you by any chance had this happen to the same photo twice and they

both come out corrupt but "Different"?

 

Since the picture sent twice should be two identical "Streams" then any

difference might indicate some form of "Timing" or "Buffering" error

while the same corruption might suggest something (A combination of

bytes for example) in the stream causing some part of the receiving

software to get confused.

 

Haven't had time to follow this thread properly so sorry if that's

already been considered. I cant see this being a problem atcually

"Writing" to the drive since with the size of the other data people will

be writing could also be expected to show it, and obviously it seems

only to be pictures.

 

Obviously it's a mystery that needs to be solved :)

keepout@yahoo.com.invalid wrote:

> On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 00:07:18 +0530, wbarbourca <wbarbourca.2vh5fe@DoNotSpam.com> wrote:

>

>> Hi,

>>

>> Thanks for the reply.

>>

>> No, I am not using any camera software. I am accessing it as a USB

>> storage device, similar to my USB drive. I don't use Photoshop.

> I only mentioned PS as there is a 100% problem with PS3 files.

> I don't use PS 3 either, but the files are on the web.

> You should have some software from the camera to actually do the downloads.

> I'd try and find it.

>> Yes, it would appear that I am experiencing 2 problems. How the file

>> is being viewed (or read), and how it is written. I never have view

>> problems from my internal drive. For viewing, I typically just use the

>> Windows Photo Gallery application ('Preview').

> Try irfanview. and see if there's actually a problem with the files BEFORE doing anything with them.

>

>> I agree that it doesn't make sense that the corruption would correct

>> itself upon a transfer out and then a rewrite back in, however, it does

>> seem to be a workaround for the view problem. However, if the transfer

> if it's corrupted that's it. no amount of copying is going to restore pixels that were never there.

>

>> out is unsuccessful (a trial and error thing) and I rewrite it back in

>> with the bad copy from my Vista, it is permanent.

> IOW: You're writing a bad copy twice over what you think is a bad copy. There's something else going on. And I'd suspect the software making the transfers.

> Use IV to import from the camera.

>

>> These devices date back to year 2003. Your question as to whether my

>> devices are USB 1 or 2 sounds interesting. That could be it. Is this

>> determination in the firmware of the device? As I say, I'm not using

>> any drivers or applications from the original installation disks, as

>> they would be for XP anyway. And I cannot locate any updated Vista

>> compatible drivers for either device as of yet.

> What I know about USB 1 & USB 2 is below.

> I think there is something like a USB 1 to USB 2 converter, but I wouldn't go that far yet.

> They're 2 different things. One more way to make you replace ALL your old equipment. See stuff that's more than a year old = OLD equipment.

 

What I've said below describes some of the differences between USB 1.1

and USB 2, and how hardware from the two standards works together (with

no need for converters!). It does not contain anything which may be

useful in solving the OP's problem, so if that's all you're looking for

and you're not otherwise interested, don't waste your time reading it

o) I just thought some people (especially the person I am replying to)

might be interested.

 

USB 1.1 and USB 2 are compatible standards. USB 1 (which didn't last

long before USB 1.1 was produced) and USB 1.1 support devices working at

"low speed" (1.5Mb/s) and "full speed" (12Mb/s). USB 2 also supports

devices working at these speeds, as well as "high speed" (480Mb/s).

Faster (and more expensive) hardware is required for devices to cope

with high speed data, so a device which only supports low or full speed

will probably never work at high speed regardless of what you do in

firmware. But that's not a problem, because USB 2 controllers support

devices using low, full or high speed. A common misconception is that

USB 2 is only high speed, and that any low or full speed device is a USB

1.1 device. Almost all modern USB devices are USB 2 devices, even things

like mice and keyboards which typically only use low speeds (cos no-one

types THAT fast!)

 

USB 1.1 devices work with USB 2 controllers and hubs, just using the

lower speed. In the case of plugging a low or full speed device (whether

it is USB 1.1 or USB 2) into a USB 2 hub, the hub does convert the data

to high speed so that the slower devices do not slow down communication

with high speed devices plugged into the same hub - perhaps that is

where you get the idea of a USB 1 to USB 2 converter from.

 

To comply with the USB 2 specification, high speed devices must either

work at a lower speed (possibly with reduced functionality) when you

plug them into a USB 1.1 controller or hub, or not do anything at all if

they can't work at all at a lower speed. For a hard disk, this would

just mean that it would take longer to transfer data since a lower speed

is being used. For some high quality real-time audio or video device,

maybe it would work at a reduced quality, or maybe the quality would not

be acceptable if it used a lower speed, so that device may just refuse

to do anything if connected to a USB 1.1 controller, and would still be

compliant with the USB 2 spec.

 

No conversion is needed to use USB 1.1 devices on a USB 2 controller, or

to use USB 2 devices on a USB 1.1 controller. The USB 2 spec is designed

to be compatible in both directions with USB 1.1.

>

> XP was upgraded to USB 2. Vista was ALWAYS USB 2.

> If the external was 2003, then yes I'd think it was USB 1 compatible.

>

> update drivers - Start - admin tools - computer management - device management -

> under disk drives, find the external. right click update driver or properties - driver - update driver. This may just try to reload, or tell you that you already have the best driver. Machines lazy or not smart enough to find a good one on the web. I would definitely find the camera software, and usage manual. Some may be available on the web. I found a 20 year old manual for a radio shack scanner on the web.

>

> Check the web site of the camera for drivers. or google for the camera.

> But 1st use IV to confirm the images aren't already crapped on the camera, and if not, just let IV move them. I haven't found much that IV can't do with an image. Again it's fast & FREE. You don't need to subscribe to anything or promise your 1st born. It's been free for more than 9 years.

>

> troubleshooting = DON'T RELY on just 1 piece of test equipment. This expands to don't rely on just 2 pieces or more of test equipment.

> I spent 24 hours replacing 3 radios to fix the 1 bad radio on 1 airplane. We DETAILED that plane and finally came to the conclusion that we had 3 different radios that ALL had the EXACT same problem. 4th radio was the charm. We did have 3 bad radios all with the exact same problem.

>

> Use several programs to view your images from the camera. They may already be corrupt on the camera. But that's where you need to start your troubleshooting, from the SOURCE of the images. If they're ok there, do a transfer. re-check them with same view software. This way you eliminate or create a constant. camera = constant, view software = constant, transfer software = constant. If after the transfer the image is bad, change one of the constants. view software, or transfer software. I'd go with transfer software 1st.

>

> And actually this should be the 1st thing to check, how's the batteries in the camera ?

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 15:15:35 +0100, Mark Bourne

<Mark@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>keepout@yahoo.com.invalid wrote:

>What I've said below describes some of the differences between USB 1.1

>and USB 2, and how hardware from the two standards works together (with

>no need for converters!). It does not contain anything which may be

 

Too technical for me. I'm just following the thread now to see what the problem

is.

 

IE: I just downloaded v 3.20 drivers & program for my TV. 1 day, and I'm going

back to the previous version.

 

Is it driver or program ? I have no idea what's buggy, let the manufacturer

work out the bugs. It's their wallet...

--

more pix @ http://members.toast.net/cbminfo/index.html

This thread is starting to become confusing. There are at least 3

people here who have reported problems:

 

tewkes

gnassif@ptd.net

wbarbourca

 

I believe that we have to take care to identify who we're responding,

to as questions and suggestions for the problem descriptions stated are

starting to get 'blended'.

 

In reply to Tewkes:

>What I don't understand is that both cameras are fairly new. The Canon

just

>came out about 4-5 months ago.

 

It doesn't matter how old the camera is. If it doesn't explicitly say

'Vista compatible', then we can't assume it is. It may have been tested

only against older OSs.

>Also, why if this is the problem, don't more

>people have this issue than are reported?

 

If someone can tell me that they have no problem interconnecting a 2003

Sony DSC-V1 camera or a 2003 Poketec Datastor 40G external drive with

the original firmware and drivers to Vista via USB to transfer or

display pictures, then that would blow 'my' hypothesis right out of the

water. Both of these units are now discontinued, so I would consider

myself to be lucky if anyone bothered to rewrite the firmware.

 

In your case, if your camera is still on the market, then there's hope.

And yes, everyone who has your camera 'should' have the same problem

with Vista if my theory holds true.

>I really wish M$ would read these and do something about

>the issue in Vista.

 

As I say, I believe that it 'may' be more likely that it is the camera

manufacture who needs to upgrade their firmware and drivers to be Vista

compatible.

 

 

--

wbarbourca

------------------------------------------------------------------------

wbarbourca's Profile: http://forums.techarena.in/member.php?userid=29532

View this thread: http://forums.techarena.in/showthread.php?t=792073

 

http://forums.techarena.in

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 11:35:29 +0530, wbarbourca

<wbarbourca.2wsanf@DoNotSpam.com> wrote:

>>Also, why if this is the problem, don't more

>>people have this issue than are reported?

For the same reason that I was the only one that couldn't get Nero 7's wave

editor and soundtrax to run. I have a HDTV GT on my machine and those 2

programs ALWAYS attempted to initialize by loading a DLL of the TV's editor.

Since the editor itself was worthless, I just traced the offending DLL. renamed

it, and the Nero programs worked semi fine after that. Neither one can't stop

crashing if it attempts to load a mis named file. ie: xxx.ac3 named xxx.wav

will crash them both.

>If someone can tell me that they have no problem interconnecting a 2003

>Sony DSC-V1 camera or a 2003 Poketec Datastor 40G external drive with

>the original firmware and drivers to Vista via USB to transfer or

>display pictures, then that would blow 'my' hypothesis right out of the

>water. Both of these units are now discontinued, so I would consider

>myself to be lucky if anyone bothered to rewrite the firmware.

dig into your event logs and see what sort of warnings and crashes it's

recording. I hate this new Vista way of handling the events. I used to be able

to delete the logs. And start with a clean slate. Now It takes work to sift

thru those logs and see what's what.

Or you can delete 1 entry at a time of 70000 entries.

>In your case, if your camera is still on the market, then there's hope.

>And yes, everyone who has your camera 'should' have the same problem

>with Vista if my theory holds true.

You really haven't been using computers very long huh ? Even Murphy's law

doesn't cover the crap a computer can do.

 

Since the thread I was following claimed the problem was on 3 different memory

things, that's a variable that makes the camera a constant. meaning take a look

at the pictures ON the camera BEFORE moving them anywhere.

try several programs to view the images BEFORE moving them. If they appear

correct with all programs, I'd use those programs to make the move.

 

You might also try a trial version of Total commander to move them. I use it

all the time between drives, and these memory sticks are just additional

drives.

the newest total commander has a thumbnail view which would give you a preview

before moving. AND after.

--

more pix @ http://members.toast.net/cbminfo/index.html

wbarbourca wrote:

> This thread is starting to become confusing. There are at least 3

> people here who have reported problems:

>

> tewkes

> gnassif@ptd.net

> wbarbourca

>

> I believe that we have to take care to identify who we're responding,

> to as questions and suggestions for the problem descriptions stated are

> starting to get 'blended'.

 

It has got quite confusing. I was replying to the post I was quoting,

which seemed to be stating that USB 1 and 2 are incompatible. This is

not the case, and I was trying to clarify that (and explain a bit more

for anyone technically minded who is interested).

>

> In reply to Tewkes:

>

>> What I don't understand is that both cameras are fairly new. The Canon

> just

>> came out about 4-5 months ago.

>

> It doesn't matter how old the camera is. If it doesn't explicitly say

> 'Vista compatible', then we can't assume it is. It may have been tested

> only against older OSs.

>

>> Also, why if this is the problem, don't more

>> people have this issue than are reported?

>

> If someone can tell me that they have no problem interconnecting a 2003

> Sony DSC-V1 camera or a 2003 Poketec Datastor 40G external drive with

> the original firmware and drivers to Vista via USB to transfer or

> display pictures, then that would blow 'my' hypothesis right out of the

> water.

 

That wouldn't necessarily blow your hypothesis out of the water. Older

hardware may be compatible with Vista, even if it hasn't been tested.

I'd expect any disk drive or other storage device which fully complies

with the "USB Mass Storage" standard to work with Vista without

modification, since both Vista AND the device should be compliant with

that common standard. That's not to say any storage device which worked

on XP WILL work on Vista - it's possible that the device is not actually

quite compliant with the standard due to bugs which XP ignores but Vista

doesn't.

> Both of these units are now discontinued, so I would consider

> myself to be lucky if anyone bothered to rewrite the firmware.

>

> In your case, if your camera is still on the market, then there's hope.

> And yes, everyone who has your camera 'should' have the same problem

> with Vista if my theory holds true.

 

I'm not sure who was having problems with several devices (as you say,

this thread has become a bit confused), but for that person / those

people, it is POSSIBLE that the problem is with your USB controller in

the PC, or the Vista drivers for that controller. I've suggested a few

things to try below to help track down where the problem is. Apologies

if they are not all relevant to the same person, or if you have already

tried some of them! I realise some of them require resources that not

everyone has access to (another computer - maybe try using a friend's

computer, especially if they have Vista, if you don't have one spare

USB controller - you might know someone with one lying around, but

they're usually on-board these days), or you might need to find someone

with more technical knowledge to help with some of them (I hope none of

you actually know me.....! o) ), so just try what you can.

 

- try the troublesome devices on another (preferably Vista) computer and

see if you can reproduce the results there. I don't just mean open the

corrupt files there and see that they are still corrupt - if they are

already corrupt they will stay that way. I mean take new photos, check

that they transfer correctly to the second computer, copy to the

external hard disk (using the second computer), check that they still

open correctly. If you have good copies on the external drive, try

opening them on the troublesome computer and see if they display

correctly there. Try copying some to the troublesome computer's hard

disk, view them from there, rename, and copy back to the USB disk. Have

the copies become corrupt? If you don't have access to another computer

with Vista, one with another OS will still help, but if everything works

fine on that machine it still leaves the computer's hardware and the OS

as potential problems, rather than just the hardware. The aim is to try

changing one thing at a time, so it is preferable not to change the

computer hardware and the OS at the same time.

 

- try copying other files apart from just pictures to the external

drive. Do they also get corrupted?

 

- see if any other USB devices apart from storage devices exhibit

strange behaviour. Many digital cameras act as a storage device for the

purpose of transferring photos, so if you have a general problem with

storage devices this could affect the camera as well as USB disk drives

and card readers. If you find that mice, keyboards, and other low speed

devices have no problem, but that all high-speed devices (marked with a

"USB High Speed" logo) do have problems, it is more likely to be down to

a faulty controller, or the driver for the controller - I have

experienced this in the past, although the devices usually do not work

at all rather than appearing to work but corrupting data.

 

- try putting another USB 2 controller in your malfunctioning computer,

ie. USB PCI card in a PC, or USB PCMCIA/Cardbus card in a laptop. I'm

not suggesting you buy one just for troubleshooting unless you are more

certain that the controller is the problem, but try to borrow one if you

don't happen to have one lying around. If that fixes the problem, you

probably have a faulty USB controller. Either send the computer back for

repair if it is still under warranty, keep the spare USB controller you

put in if it's not needed elsewhere, buy a new USB controller if not

(they cost about £10-£20 here in the UK), or consider paying for it to

be repaired (probably more expensive than just buying a new controller!)

 

- try with a different operating system on the malfunctioning computer,

eg. download a "Live" Linux CD (eg. Knoppix) and boot from that - doing

so allows you to run Linux without installing it on the hard disk. I

suggest using a "Live" CD because installing another OS onto the hard

disk over the top of Vista would require making a backup of any data you

don't want to lose, and I wouldn't trust a backup given the problem

you're investigating! It also saves the hassle of actually installing

another OS and reinstalling Vista later. You may need to find someone

else who's familiar with Linux to help you here. I'm not suggesting

using Linux as a permanent solution, but I do find it very useful in

eliminating the OS as the cause of a problem. If you still get problems

under the alternative OS, then the OS is very unlikely to be the cause,

and it is likely a hardware problem. If you don't have problems in the

alternative OS, it could be that there is a problem with the Vista

drivers for either the USB controller or affected hardware.

 

- I wonder if all the people posting here with problems have computers

from the same manufacturer, or at least using the same motherboard or

on-board USB controller...?

>

>> I really wish M$ would read these and do something about

>> the issue in Vista.

>

> As I say, I believe that it 'may' be more likely that it is the camera

> manufacture who needs to upgrade their firmware and drivers to be Vista

> compatible.

>

>

 

Apologies for the long list of things to try. I hope it helps at least

some of you work out where the problem lies.

 

Mark.

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 16:01:51 +0100, Mark Bourne

<Mark@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>That wouldn't necessarily blow your hypothesis out of the water. Older

>hardware may be compatible with Vista, even if it hasn't been tested.

>I'd expect any disk drive or other storage device which fully complies

>with the "USB Mass Storage" standard to work with Vista without

>modification, since both Vista AND the device should be compliant with

 

FWIW: Vista exterminated both hardware & software when it came out. If I'd

wanted [and I didn't] to install Vista on my XP, It would have required buying

a new video card and throwing away a $400.00 one. Since the XP died, it's no

longer an issue.

But.. I cannibalized everything I could salvage and use on this HP Vista HP.

This includes several internal HD's a DVD drive [that hangs on the door,

removed] a Maxtor external 300 gig HD, a HP PSC 2355v AIO printer - scanner -

copier.

Both of the last 2 Maxtor and printer had software that no longer will even

install. Actually the Maxtor installs. and BSOD's every time it ran.

the printer and the Maxtor both work with 3rd party software.

 

So here's a thought, have you bothered to check the M$ Vista compatibility page

? It even has an applet to run and examine it to tell you if it's vista

compatible, and provide you a list of stuff that Vista will destroy.

 

There's also a stand alone you can download and run offline.

--

more pix @ http://members.toast.net/cbminfo/index.html

keepout@yahoo.com.invalid wrote:

> On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 16:01:51 +0100, Mark Bourne

> <Mark@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>

>> That wouldn't necessarily blow your hypothesis out of the water. Older

>> hardware may be compatible with Vista, even if it hasn't been tested.

>> I'd expect any disk drive or other storage device which fully complies

>> with the "USB Mass Storage" standard to work with Vista without

>> modification, since both Vista AND the device should be compliant with

>

> FWIW: Vista exterminated both hardware & software when it came out. If I'd

> wanted [and I didn't] to install Vista on my XP, It would have required buying

> a new video card and throwing away a $400.00 one. Since the XP died, it's no

> longer an issue.

> But.. I cannibalized everything I could salvage and use on this HP Vista HP.

> This includes several internal HD's a DVD drive [that hangs on the door,

> removed] a Maxtor external 300 gig HD, a HP PSC 2355v AIO printer - scanner -

> copier.

> Both of the last 2 Maxtor and printer had software that no longer will even

> install. Actually the Maxtor installs. and BSOD's every time it ran.

> the printer and the Maxtor both work with 3rd party software.

 

I'm not saying all hardware will work with Vista, nor am I saying that

you wouldn't have needed to upgrade your video etc (although you might

not have actually needed to upgrade it if you didn't want the flashy new

Aero effects). Maybe the software which came with the drives doesn't

install (presumably some kind of backup or synchronisation software),

but the USB hard disks themselves *should* still work, with none of the

software installed, using the standard USB Mass Storage drivers provided

they comply with that standard, which most do. Printers I can understand

may not work because there are no standard drivers for them, and you

would need Vista compatible drivers, but as far as I could see all the

issues described here were with storage devices. Just because a printer

or other device isn't manufactured any more doesn't mean you won't be

able to get Vista drivers for it - I managed to get Vista drivers for my

printer and two NetMD recorders despite them being discontinued. Since

you've found that both work with 3rd party software, there is clearly

nothing wrong with the hardware devices and Vista, just the software

and, possibly, drivers which came with them.

>

> So here's a thought, have you bothered to check the M$ Vista compatibility page

> ? It even has an applet to run and examine it to tell you if it's vista

> compatible, and provide you a list of stuff that Vista will destroy.

 

I don't have a problem. I'm just trying to help those that do. I assume

the page you are referring to is the "Windows Vista hardware

compatibility list"? It doesn't seem to be available at the moment, but

I expect it would contain a list of devices which are KNOWN to work with

Vista, and possibly a list of devices which are KNOWN not to work. Any

device not on the list is not necessarily not going to work with Vista,

it's just that M$ haven't tested it for compatibility, and they won't

support it.

>

> There's also a stand alone you can download and run offline.

I have this same problem!! Since I changed operation system to Vista allmost

every jpg files has been corrupted! Allmost 2000 photos and about 150 of

those are important because those are the originals I have sold! Doesn't

anyone really knows a solution to this problem. I have backups ofcourse but I

cant risk those by connecting that drive to this computer where Vista is. I

also noticed that some of my mp3 files corrupted also, first they were fine

but after I transferred those to internal harddrive they all corrupted!!!

"Kristian" <Kristian@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:58662E87-ADA6-45F9-80A1-F0AC3FA3920E@microsoft.com...

> I have this same problem!! Since I changed operation system to Vista

> allmost

> every jpg files has been corrupted! Allmost 2000 photos and about 150 of

> those are important because those are the originals I have sold! Doesn't

> anyone really knows a solution to this problem. I have backups ofcourse

> but I

> cant risk those by connecting that drive to this computer where Vista is.

> I

> also noticed that some of my mp3 files corrupted also, first they were

> fine

> but after I transferred those to internal harddrive they all corrupted!!!

 

Need to be a bit more detailed. In what way are they corrupt? Won't open,

partial data corruption? I have a lot of jpg, original art work, etc under

Vista, along with a LOT of MP3's with no corruption whatsoever.

 

--

Ok, I got the big purple f*cker, Sponge Bob is next!!

http://www.lockergnome.com/darksentinel

You know what to do with the munge