Vista is so secure that I can't even do a simple thing like watch

videos at youtube. You locked the gates but you also locked me out in

the process. Linux is a more secure OS too and I have no problem

viewing youtube on that OS. Get rid of that DRM crap too as it is

already causing issues with memory address space allocation. In the

meantime I will use XP as my main OS until Vista is ready for prime

time. By then I expect I will have to buy a new version of the OS. As

it is now Vista is just a novelty OS to me.

"Gladiator" <no@email.invalid> wrote in message

news:j7sga3t09k750rin8ugjh24mecj0ij596d@4ax.com...

> Vista is so secure that I can't even do a simple thing like watch

> videos at youtube. You locked the gates but you also locked me out in

> the process. Linux is a more secure OS too and I have no problem

> viewing youtube on that OS. Get rid of that DRM crap too as it is

> already causing issues with memory address space allocation. In the

> meantime I will use XP as my main OS until Vista is ready for prime

> time. By then I expect I will have to buy a new version of the OS. As

> it is now Vista is just a novelty OS to me.

 

I have no problem watching anything on YouTube on my Visa machines. There

is no problem with the OS that prevents youtube.

Maybe you should learn a little more about it and understand how the

security model works.

 

Please feel free to provide details of YOUR memory alloc issues with DRM.

 

--

 

Mike Brannigan

Youtube videos play ok here.. do you have Adobe Flash installed?

 

DRM is a product of the music industry.. complain to them..

 

 

"Gladiator" <no@email.invalid> wrote in message

news:j7sga3t09k750rin8ugjh24mecj0ij596d@4ax.com...

> Vista is so secure that I can't even do a simple thing like watch

> videos at youtube. You locked the gates but you also locked me out in

> the process. Linux is a more secure OS too and I have no problem

> viewing youtube on that OS. Get rid of that DRM crap too as it is

> already causing issues with memory address space allocation. In the

> meantime I will use XP as my main OS until Vista is ready for prime

> time. By then I expect I will have to buy a new version of the OS. As

> it is now Vista is just a novelty OS to me.

 

--

 

 

Mike Hall

MS MVP Windows Shell/User

http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

> Youtube videos play ok here.. do you have Adobe Flash installed?

>

> DRM is a product of the music industry.. complain to them..

 

Um, the music industry, specifically EMI, is learning that DRM is not a

good thing. When will MS wake up?

 

Alias

"Alias" <aka@masked&anonymous.li> wrote in message

news:upm7kP3zHHA.5160@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>> Youtube videos play ok here.. do you have Adobe Flash installed?

>>

>> DRM is a product of the music industry.. complain to them..

>

> Um, the music industry, specifically EMI, is learning that DRM is not a

> good thing. When will MS wake up?

>

> Alias

 

Microsoft will respond when the entire media publishing industry (music,

movie etc) all no longer wish to use DRM.

Until that time DRM is a technology that a publisher CHOOSES to use to

protect THEIR content.

This is not a Microsoft issue - it is one entirely of the media industry and

the piracy of their products making.

--

 

Mike Brannigan

When the music industry drops DRM, Microsoft will likely be "glad" to offer

a patch to remove or disable it in Vista.

 

--

 

 

Regards,

 

Richard Urban

Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User

(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

 

"Alias" <aka@masked&anonymous.li> wrote in message

news:upm7kP3zHHA.5160@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>> Youtube videos play ok here.. do you have Adobe Flash installed?

>>

>> DRM is a product of the music industry.. complain to them..

>

> Um, the music industry, specifically EMI, is learning that DRM is not a

> good thing. When will MS wake up?

>

> Alias

Mike Brannigan wrote:

> "Alias" <aka@masked&anonymous.li> wrote in message

> news:upm7kP3zHHA.5160@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>>> Youtube videos play ok here.. do you have Adobe Flash installed?

>>>

>>> DRM is a product of the music industry.. complain to them..

>>

>> Um, the music industry, specifically EMI, is learning that DRM is not

>> a good thing. When will MS wake up?

>>

>> Alias

>

> Microsoft will respond when the entire media publishing industry (music,

> movie etc) all no longer wish to use DRM.

> Until that time DRM is a technology that a publisher CHOOSES to use to

> protect THEIR content.

> This is not a Microsoft issue - it is one entirely of the media industry

> and the piracy of their products making.

 

Yet another good reason to wait on Vista. I suppose the music and film

industry put a gun up to MS' head and forced them to include DRM in

Vista ...

 

Alias

Richard Urban wrote:

> When the music industry drops DRM, Microsoft will likely be "glad" to

> offer a patch to remove or disable it in Vista.

>

 

The question is not what they may or may not do in the future but why

they included it in the first place. Did the music and film industry

hold a gun to their head or what?

 

Alias

Go away, troll !

 

--

Anando

Microsoft MVP- Windows Shell/User

http://www.microsoft.com/mvp

 

Microsoft Certified Professional

http://www.microsoft.com/mcp

 

My Blog

http://www.anando.org/blog

"Gladiator" <no@email.invalid> wrote in message news:j7sga3t09k750rin8ugjh24mecj0ij596d@4ax.com...

> Vista is so secure that I can't even do a simple thing like watch

> videos at youtube. You locked the gates but you also locked me out in

> the process. Linux is a more secure OS too and I have no problem

> viewing youtube on that OS. Get rid of that DRM crap too as it is

> already causing issues with memory address space allocation. In the

> meantime I will use XP as my main OS until Vista is ready for prime

> time. By then I expect I will have to buy a new version of the OS. As

> it is now Vista is just a novelty OS to me.

For Microsoft to include the technologies they did, yes, a gun was held to

their head. Comply or don't offer HD video. BTW, video card manufacturers

had to comply also - so why don't you rail against them?

 

But you already knew, this as it was addressed in one of your mile long

threads many months ago.

 

--

 

 

Regards,

 

Richard Urban

Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User

(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

 

"Alias" <aka@masked&anonymous.li> wrote in message

news:uUbn153zHHA.3400@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> Richard Urban wrote:

>> When the music industry drops DRM, Microsoft will likely be "glad" to

>> offer a patch to remove or disable it in Vista.

>>

>

> The question is not what they may or may not do in the future but why they

> included it in the first place. Did the music and film industry hold a gun

> to their head or what?

>

> Alias

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:50:48 +0100, "Mike Brannigan"

<Mike.Brannigan@localhost> wrote:

 

>I have no problem watching anything on YouTube on my Visa machines. There

>is no problem with the OS that prevents youtube.

>Maybe you should learn a little more about it and understand how the

>security model works.

 

Maybe you should look up issues with Flash Player in Vista. Google is

your friend.

>Please feel free to provide details of YOUR memory alloc issues with DRM.

 

You're an MVP and you don't even know what I am talking about? Time

for you to hit google then.

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 06:54:07 -0400, "Mike Hall - MVP"

<mikehall@mvps.org> wrote:

 

>

>DRM is a product of the music industry.. complain to them..

 

Microsoft is the one playing patsy to the RIAA.

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:16:41 +0100, "Mike Brannigan"

<Mike.Brannigan@localhost> wrote:

 

>This is not a Microsoft issue - it is one entirely of the media industry and

>the piracy of their products making.

 

This is the issue I am talking about.

 

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3044&p=2

 

This post seems to sum it up pretty nicely.

 

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1210609&page=4

 

"On whether this is a feature or a bug, and why this is happening. I

think Anand has a decent handle on it. It is a security feature,

essentially for DRM, the video memory is remapped to user application

space, this is the only allowable programming access to the video

card. Why this is done is to prevent a second application from

checking the memory while playing protected streams (DRM's Video,

bluRay etc) so they can't be copied. The problem is the massive loss

of address space. MS is choosing DRM security over user memory space

in Vista."

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:06:35 -0400, "Richard Urban"

<richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote:

>For Microsoft to include the technologies they did, yes, a gun was held to

>their head. Comply or don't offer HD video. BTW, video card manufacturers

>had to comply also - so why don't you rail against them?

 

I bought an LCD projector and wanted to upscale the DVD's from my PC

to 1280x720 onto the projector. Both WMP11 and Cyberlink PowerDVD

wouldn't allow me to do this due to Macrovision. No problem. VLC to

the rescue. All DRM methods will be defeated so they may as well give

up now and stop wasting money and users time with their BS. We are

getting sick of the RIAA. They are scumbags.

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 06:16:27 -0600, "Anando [MVP]" <anando@mvps.org>

wrote:

>Go away, troll !

 

Another MVP abusing the customers. Even Microsoft has trouble finding

good help these days. Hope they pay you what you are worth. Oh, right,

they don't pay you.

Richard Urban wrote:

> For Microsoft to include the technologies they did, yes, a gun was held

> to their head. Comply or don't offer HD video. BTW, video card

> manufacturers had to comply also - so why don't you rail against them?

>

> But you already knew, this as it was addressed in one of your mile long

> threads many months ago.

>

 

Please learn how to post in Usenet. The way you post makes it so when

one uses a real news reader, everything below your sig gets nuked.

Either bottom post or get rid of your sig.

 

I haven't seen any DRM in any video cards. Can you prove that?

 

MS could have said they won't include HD if the music and film industry

insists on DRM. That would mean millions of computers that couldn't even

pay to see content put out by these music and film shysters.

 

Alias

Gladiator wrote:

> On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 06:54:07 -0400, "Mike Hall - MVP"

> <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote:

>

>

>> DRM is a product of the music industry.. complain to them..

>

> Microsoft is the one playing patsy to the RIAA.

 

Yeah, they could just say "no".

 

Alias

Gladiator wrote:

> On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:16:41 +0100, "Mike Brannigan"

> <Mike.Brannigan@localhost> wrote:

>

>

>> This is not a Microsoft issue - it is one entirely of the media industry and

>> the piracy of their products making.

>

> This is the issue I am talking about.

>

> http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3044&p=2

>

> This post seems to sum it up pretty nicely.

>

> http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1210609&page=4

>

> "On whether this is a feature or a bug, and why this is happening. I

> think Anand has a decent handle on it. It is a security feature,

> essentially for DRM, the video memory is remapped to user application

> space, this is the only allowable programming access to the video

> card. Why this is done is to prevent a second application from

> checking the memory while playing protected streams (DRM's Video,

> bluRay etc) so they can't be copied. The problem is the massive loss

> of address space. MS is choosing DRM security over user memory space

> in Vista."

>

>

 

Another good reason to go Open Source.

 

Alias

You see how I post. If you don't like the Microsoft default, go away. I will

not change and I **like** top posting.

 

I know what I am responding to. Why should others have to read through the

same previous verbiage two, three or twenty times to get to my response?

 

--

 

 

Regards,

 

Richard Urban

Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User

(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

YOU are ***NOT*** a customer.

 

YOU are a ***TROLL***.

 

--

 

 

Regards,

 

Richard Urban

Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User

(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

 

"Gladiator" <no@email.invalid> wrote in message

news:l69ha3tc966m5eughemcnsojcvtv3s6u5v@4ax.com...

> On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 06:16:27 -0600, "Anando [MVP]" <anando@mvps.org>

> wrote:

>

>>Go away, troll !

>

> Another MVP abusing the customers. Even Microsoft has trouble finding

> good help these days. Hope they pay you what you are worth. Oh, right,

> they don't pay you.

"Gladiator" <no@email.invalid> wrote in message

news:dl8ha3l0bqi4k47svdqo101gcsgsgihqlb@4ax.com...

> On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:16:41 +0100, "Mike Brannigan"

> <Mike.Brannigan@localhost> wrote:

>

>

>>This is not a Microsoft issue - it is one entirely of the media industry

>>and

>>the piracy of their products making.

>

> This is the issue I am talking about.

>

> http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3044&p=2

>

> This post seems to sum it up pretty nicely.

>

> http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1210609&page=4

>

 

OK - so the memory mapping issue is the one of mapping video memory into RAM

to protect it from snooping during DRM playback.

This cases issues on memory constrained systems and 32-bit platforms.

One solution would be to go 64-bit as a 32-bit process is allowed the full

4GB address space unlike the 2GB limit on 32-bit (changeable to 3GB just via

switches on boot.ini on an XP system etc).

I realize that saying move to a 64-bit OS and a 4GB or better RAM system may

seem excessive but unfortunately the larger amounts of RAM in high end

graphics cards coupled with the implementation of DRM (as required by the

media industry) has caused this issue to arise.

It is all a bit of a catch 22 - that unless the media industry back tracks

fully from DRM them Microsoft must make a secure method of enabling playback

(and the locked memory mapped way is the current solution in terms of

performance and functionality).

 

Are you aware of this issue still being relevant on a x64 system with x64

Vista and 4+GB of RAM and 1GB graphics card? - I have not seen it myself.

--

 

Mike Brannigan

"Gladiator" <no@email.invalid> wrote in message

news:dl8ha3l0bqi4k47svdqo101gcsgsgihqlb@4ax.com...

> On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:16:41 +0100, "Mike Brannigan"

> <Mike.Brannigan@localhost> wrote:

>

>

>>This is not a Microsoft issue - it is one entirely of the media industry

>>and

>>the piracy of their products making.

>

> This is the issue I am talking about.

>

> http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3044&p=2

>

> This post seems to sum it up pretty nicely.

>

> http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1210609&page=4

>

> "On whether this is a feature or a bug, and why this is happening. I

> think Anand has a decent handle on it. It is a security feature,

> essentially for DRM, the video memory is remapped to user application

> space, this is the only allowable programming access to the video

> card. Why this is done is to prevent a second application from

> checking the memory while playing protected streams (DRM's Video,

> bluRay etc) so they can't be copied. The problem is the massive loss

> of address space. MS is choosing DRM security over user memory space

> in Vista."

>

>

Richard Urban wrote:

> You see how I post. If you don't like the Microsoft default, go away. I

> will not change and I **like** top posting.

 

Why? Because it irritates people?

> I know what I am responding to. Why should others have to read through

> the same previous verbiage two, three or twenty times to get to my

> response?

>

 

For those who haven't seen the original post, of course. Your

selfishness and lack of concern for others is what got you your MVP badge?

 

Alias

<grin> <wink> <giggles> <howling laughter>

 

Please stop before I pis* myself!

 

You really think I may change to make the Linsux crowd happy. Not a chance.

 

--

 

 

Regards,

 

Richard Urban

Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User

(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Richard Urban wrote:

> <grin> <wink> <giggles> <howling laughter>

>

> Please stop before I pis* myself!

>

> You really think I may change to make the Linsux crowd happy. Not a chance.

>

 

How about the Microsoft users who post here? Can you set an example? Or

don't you care about them either?

 

Alias

"Alias" instructed...

> Please learn how to post in Usenet. The way you post makes it so when one

> uses a real news reader, everything below your sig gets nuked. Either

> bottom post or get rid of your sig.

>

 

Usenet posting monitor? Nowhere is it written that Mr. I'll-post-what-I-want

gets to tell anyone else how to post. -)