"Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@remove_mvps.com> wrote in message

news:%239py6bGuIHA.4376@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message

> news:g0n00k$984$1@aioe.org...

>> Kerry Brown wrote:

>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message

>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware long

>>>>>> before it was released.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very

>>>>>> good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista

>>>>> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call

>>>>> high end.

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware to

>>>> build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the cost of

>>>> buying retail Ultimate in Spain.

>>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living in

>>> the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is high

>>> end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name brand DDR2

>>> RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run Vista very

>>> well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is what I

>>> consider to be decent quality.

>>>

>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00

>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00

>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00

>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00

>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00

>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00

>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00

>>

>> No video or audio card? Are these Canadian or US dollars?

>>

>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised

>>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could

>>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any

>>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be

>>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is

>>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be another

>>> $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00. Maybe you

>>> should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live in Spain has

>>> impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is relative to

>>> where you live. The system specs would not be considered high end

>>> anywhere yet Vista runs with no problems on it.

>>>

>>

>> Unfortunately, in Spain, you can't buy a copy of a generic OEM Vista (or

>> XP for that matter), only retail, unless you buy a complete computer. If

>> I wanted to buy another copy of Vista or XP, I would get a friend to buy

>> it in the States and send it to me.

>>

>> That said, I didn't move to Spain for computer prices. I hate the cold

>> and where I live, there's sunshine at least 300 days a year and it never

>> goes under 5ºC so Canada is completely out of the question :-)

>>

>> Alias

>

>

> The more I see your answers to other people, the less I think that you

> know about computers..

 

Listen, he is in Spain. EU. They have to pay for the Microsoft anti-trust

conviction that the US didn't enforce. Predatory pricing and the like.

 

Nice adoption ground for Linux I bet. I wonder if I should take a Spanish

course, always liked the people.

"Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message

news:ACCA7C71-EDF0-48E4-9F41-B8D4E17907FD@microsoft.com...

> "Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote in message

> news:UlGXj.146998$Cj7.110714@pd7urf2no...

>>

>> "Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message

>> news:2E5A8BF6-8DA4-4129-B7D7-A88CF082CEB9@microsoft.com...

>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message

>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware long

>>>>>> before it was released.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very

>>>>>> good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista

>>>>> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call

>>>>> high end.

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware to

>>>> build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the cost of

>>>> buying retail Ultimate in Spain.

>>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living in

>>> the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is high

>>> end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name brand DDR2

>>> RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run Vista very

>>> well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is what I

>>> consider to be decent quality.

>>>

>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00

>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00

>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00

>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00

>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00

>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00

>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00

>>>

>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised

>>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could

>>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any

>>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be

>>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is

>>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be another

>>> $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00. Maybe you

>>> should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live in Spain has

>>> impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is relative to

>>> where you live. The system specs would not be considered high end

>>> anywhere yet Vista runs with no problems on it.

>>

>> You are quoting OEM versions. He is talking the full retail. You know,

>> the better ones that are complete and recoverable. You also are without

>> office tools. Add in business or ultimate office tools you are well over

>> the $1000, more than twice the price of the total hardware package.

>

> Generic OEM disks are a full install just like a retail disk. You may be

> thinking of the large OEMs like Dell and HP. I wouldn't wish that user

> experience on anyone. They install so much crap even a Quad Core would

> struggle. As for Office you are the first person to mention it. I don't

> see it anywhere else in the thread. Open Office runs equally well on Vista

> or Linux so there's no difference there. If you need Microsoft Office then

> despite what people say about Wine you really need a Microsoft OS to run

> it properly.

 

Never have run MS-Office under wine, always use Open Office. It does run

equally as well on multiple platforms, which is great in my profession.

 

>> Me, got a Q6600, 4GB RAM, 22" wide LCD, 500GB drive, Vista (not so)

>> Premium x64 OEM, keyboard, mouse, cables, $749 at Best Buy. No assembly

>> required and a warranty. But I did a refit, to 8GB RAM, 2nd hard drive

>> and a dedicated 8500GT 256M fanless video.

>>

>> Runs Vista like a pig (file/network copy specifically), but Ubuntu with

>> Compiz, smoking hot and fast.

>>

>

> Then something is wrong. I dual boot Ubuntu and Vista Business on this

> laptop. They run about the same speed doing the same tasks. If anything

> the Vista Atheros wireless driver is a little faster than the MadWifi

> driver in Ubuntu so wireless is a bit faster in Vista on this machine.

> Other than that I don't notice much difference other than the UI. Both

> have been very stable with few problems.

 

Where I hit problems that really gets me can be summed up as:

 

- copy disk to disk, large files, painfully slow compared to XP or Linux.

- copy to/from the network, again, painfully slow

- CIFS shares, haven't got them working with Samba (yet).

- they still haven't fixed 8 year old bugs in Express/Mail.

 

Running Fedora or Ubuntu on the same hardware does not show the same issues.

Seems very Vista specific. And with Linux, can use NFS native for the media

storage and quick...

 

My 3 year old XP, no problems, but it is different hardware but older/slower

hardware. IDE versus SATA etc.

 

On my laptop, the Atheros driver works like lighting using Ubuntu, Fedora or

OpenBSD. But haven't tried it with Vista. Given my laptop has only 512M,

that would be a time waster to bring Vista near it.

 

For network though, I did pull up Vista performance monitor of sorts, square

topped at 5mbs on a 100MBS network. Never could get it to do better. Tied

dozens of things. I may be extra sensitive to this as I routinely copy

around DVD sized ISO/zip images. And Vista, not liveable. XP was always

slower than Linux, but comparable. Vista, slugware.

 

Didn't have any Vista crashes though. This part of Vista, never

experienced. Stable yes, slow, yes. Incompatible yes. Keeping my XP alive

and running. And don't have to update VMWare. Treating Vista as a sunk

unrecoverable cost on the last PC. MS tax if you will. Only real value was

if a customer needs me to use it I will not be blank faced.

"Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@remove_mvps.com> wrote in message

news:eJxDSbGuIHA.4528@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> "Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message

> news:2E5A8BF6-8DA4-4129-B7D7-A88CF082CEB9@microsoft.com...

>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message

>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>> Kerry Brown wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware long

>>>>> before it was released.

>>>>>

>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very good

>>>>> job all by itself and doesn't need my help.

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista

>>>> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call

>>>> high end.

>>>>

>>>

>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware to

>>> build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the cost of

>>> buying retail Ultimate in Spain.

>>>

>>

>>

>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living in

>> the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is high

>> end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name brand DDR2

>> RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run Vista very

>> well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is what I

>> consider to be decent quality.

>>

>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00

>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00

>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00

>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00

>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00

>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00

>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00

>>

>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised

>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could

>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any

>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be

>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is

>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be another

>> $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00. Maybe you

>> should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live in Spain has

>> impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is relative to where

>> you live. The system specs would not be considered high end anywhere yet

>> Vista runs with no problems on it.

>>

>> --

>> Kerry Brown

>> MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience: Systems Administration

>> http://www.vistahelp.ca/phpBB2/

>>

>>

>>

>

>

> Kerry

>

> Prices for everything are higher in Europe than in North America, and

> taxation plays its part.

>

> Don't let Alias fool you into believing that Spain is a peasant country,

> because it is anything but peasant. For sure some of the old ways of life

> still exist, but Spain is as technologically advanced as most countries,

> and has been the only European country growing over the last few years.

>

> They may not have the cheap computer fairs as in the UK, but one can get

> computers, parts and software at reasonable prices just as one can in

> other countries.

 

First, Canada has a tax treaty called NAFTA. Explain:

- why is MS products 20-30% higher in Canada, it isn't taxes.

- why will US companies sell books, PCs but not MS over the border?

 

Abet, we don't get so screwed as Spain. But if it is local retailers, why

not let the users just download it, spit them a PDF with keys and have one

(legal) price for the whole world and not this price fixing?

 

Cuts out the middle man too. Shrink wrap is so last century. I don't even

load Solaris with physical CD/DVDs any more. Haven't for three years.

Ditto Linux. (Yes, Linux loads over a network).

 

Taiwan, real cheap. Eee PC, special price, abet not Vista fatware but XP

re-incarnated. You know, the defunct OS. I can get Eee PCs here in Canada

for the same price as California, XP or Linux. BTW, over a million Eee PCs

with Linux sold. That extra memory is nice.

 

Come now...Microsoft is no longer competitive and is predatory in pricing.

Bet I could buy a copy of XP (english) legal cheaper in the orient than in

the US, even Redmond.

 

MS is digging its grave.

Canuck57 wrote:

> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message

> news:g0np3q$7o8$1@aioe.org...

>> Canuck57 wrote:

>>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message

>>> news:g0n00k$984$1@aioe.org...

>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:

>>>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message

>>>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:

>>>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware

>>>>>>>> long before it was released.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very

>>>>>>>> good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista

>>>>>>> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call

>>>>>>> high end.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware

>>>>>> to build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the

>>>>>> cost of buying retail Ultimate in Spain.

>>>>>>

>>>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living

>>>>> in the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is

>>>>> high end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name brand

>>>>> DDR2 RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run Vista

>>>>> very well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is what I

>>>>> consider to be decent quality.

>>>>>

>>>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00

>>>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00

>>>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00

>>>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00

>>>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00

>>>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00

>>>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00

>>>> No video or audio card? Are these Canadian or US dollars?

>>> CAD and USD are near par with each other, have been now for 4 months now

>>> or so. Ok, it fluxuates up and down but it so close it is like the Bank

>>> of Canada is managing it to be par.

>>>

>>>

>>>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised

>>>>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could

>>>>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any

>>>>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be

>>>>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is

>>>>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be

>>>>> another $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00.

>>>>> Maybe you should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live

>>>>> in Spain has impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is

>>>>> relative to where you live. The system specs would not be considered

>>>>> high end anywhere yet Vista runs with no problems on it.

>>>>>

>>>> Unfortunately, in Spain, you can't buy a copy of a generic OEM Vista (or

>>>> XP for that matter), only retail, unless you buy a complete computer. If

>>>> I wanted to buy another copy of Vista or XP, I would get a friend to buy

>>>> it in the States and send it to me.

>>> Here, almost everyone buys the OEM right off the shelf. In fact, one

>>> store I deal with, most retail/full versions are special order only. No

>>> one in their right mind is going to pay full retail for Ultimate Full

>>> Retail...anything.

>> It used to be that way here, too, until MS clamped down. Three computer

>> chains have confirmed that they were told by MS to only sell generic OEMs

>> with computers, including MS Office, or else.

>>

>>>> That said, I didn't move to Spain for computer prices. I hate the cold

>>>> and where I live, there's sunshine at least 300 days a year and it never

>>>> goes under 5ºC so Canada is completely out of the question :-)

>>>>

>>>> Alias

>>> I hear you there. This is a weird year in Canada. Almost broke record

>>> low temperate a few months ago, -35C. Today, going to 33C and may well

>>> be record temperatures for the day. Screwy. I am contemplating Costa

>>> Rica myself. Snow I don't mind, but that cold just isn't very nice.

>> I hear Costa Rica is nice.

>>

>>> You are better off in Spain. Maybe wait until you know someone going to

>>> Canada, Spain or UK and bring a more sanely priced copy back.

>> Oh, I have friends and family who can mail me what I want. Ready for this?

>> Levi's go for 120 euros here, each pair. That's $187 for a pair of jeans!

>> Needless to say, I get my people to send me clothes too -)

>>

>> Alias

>

> Why not! Heck, that is a lot for jeans. Picked some up a few months ago,

> $20 in the US each. US isn't that far from here and with NAFTA, you can buy

> cars, often 20% cheaper. Have imported two myself. Thinking of a boat next

> if the dealers get real.

>

> But I hear the beaches, a bottle of rum, some chicks to look at, can't be

> beat from Spain. Who cares about Vista with that in mind. No snow,

> enticing. Are you an expat?

>

>

 

Yes, married to a Spanish lady. I have a green card :-)

 

Alias

Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message

> news:g0nlvg$rh5$2@aioe.org...

>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message

>>> news:g0n00k$984$1@aioe.org...

>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:

>>>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message

>>>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware

>>>>>>>> long before it was released.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a

>>>>>>>> very good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with

>>>>>>> Vista Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what

>>>>>>> I'd call high end.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap

>>>>>> hardware to build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even

>>>>>> cover the cost of buying retail Ultimate in Spain.

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are

>>>>> living in the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of

>>>>> RAM is high end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of

>>>>> name brand DDR2 RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that

>>>>> will run Vista very well and is easily under $500.00 for the

>>>>> hardware which is what I consider to be decent quality.

>>>>>

>>>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00

>>>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00

>>>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00

>>>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00

>>>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00

>>>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00

>>>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00

>>>>

>>>> No video or audio card? Are these Canadian or US dollars?

>>>>

>>>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all

>>>>> recognised brand names. If you're not particular about where you

>>>>> shop you could probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end.

>>>>> It will run any edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The

>>>>> system will be stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista

>>>>> Home Premium is $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen

>>>>> LCD would be another $200.00. The complete system with Vista

>>>>> Ultimate is $865.00. Maybe you should move to Canada. It sounds

>>>>> like your decision to live in Spain has impacted your computing

>>>>> experience. In any case cost is relative to where you live. The

>>>>> system specs would not be considered high end anywhere yet Vista

>>>>> runs with no problems on it.

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Unfortunately, in Spain, you can't buy a copy of a generic OEM Vista

>>>> (or XP for that matter), only retail, unless you buy a complete

>>>> computer. If I wanted to buy another copy of Vista or XP, I would

>>>> get a friend to buy it in the States and send it to me.

>>>>

>>>> That said, I didn't move to Spain for computer prices. I hate the

>>>> cold and where I live, there's sunshine at least 300 days a year and

>>>> it never goes under 5ºC so Canada is completely out of the question :-)

>>>>

>>>> Alias

>>>

>>>

>>> The more I see your answers to other people, the less I think that

>>> you know about computers..

>>>

>>>

>>

>> Again, Mike plays the more knowledgeable than thou card like a true MS

>> fanboy. Frank would be proud of you.

>>

>> Fact is, you know more than I and I know more than you.

>>

>> Alias

>

>

> The fact is that I have also lived and worked in Spain, and France, and

> the UK, and the US. You may be able to pull the wool over the eyes of

> some, but you will not get away with doing it to me..

>

>

 

You've made two claims:

 

1. I don't know anything about computers

 

and

 

2. I am pulling the wool over the eyes of some.

 

Can you explain or are you like Frank and just insult people because you

can?

 

Alias

Canuck57 wrote:

> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@remove_mvps.com> wrote in message

> news:%239py6bGuIHA.4376@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message

>> news:g0n00k$984$1@aioe.org...

>>> Kerry Brown wrote:

>>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message

>>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:

>>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware long

>>>>>>> before it was released.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very

>>>>>>> good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista

>>>>>> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call

>>>>>> high end.

>>>>>>

>>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware to

>>>>> build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the cost of

>>>>> buying retail Ultimate in Spain.

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living in

>>>> the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is high

>>>> end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name brand DDR2

>>>> RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run Vista very

>>>> well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is what I

>>>> consider to be decent quality.

>>>>

>>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00

>>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00

>>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00

>>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00

>>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00

>>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00

>>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00

>>> No video or audio card? Are these Canadian or US dollars?

>>>

>>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised

>>>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could

>>>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any

>>>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be

>>>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is

>>>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be another

>>>> $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00. Maybe you

>>>> should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live in Spain has

>>>> impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is relative to

>>>> where you live. The system specs would not be considered high end

>>>> anywhere yet Vista runs with no problems on it.

>>>>

>>> Unfortunately, in Spain, you can't buy a copy of a generic OEM Vista (or

>>> XP for that matter), only retail, unless you buy a complete computer. If

>>> I wanted to buy another copy of Vista or XP, I would get a friend to buy

>>> it in the States and send it to me.

>>>

>>> That said, I didn't move to Spain for computer prices. I hate the cold

>>> and where I live, there's sunshine at least 300 days a year and it never

>>> goes under 5ºC so Canada is completely out of the question :-)

>>>

>>> Alias

>>

>> The more I see your answers to other people, the less I think that you

>> know about computers..

>

> Listen, he is in Spain. EU. They have to pay for the Microsoft anti-trust

> conviction that the US didn't enforce. Predatory pricing and the like.

>

> Nice adoption ground for Linux I bet. I wonder if I should take a Spanish

> course, always liked the people.

>

>

 

In the last year, I have seen Ubuntu discussed in magazines, newspapers

and TV. I asked the computer chains which OS was requested the most. XP

was first, followed by Ubuntu and Vista.

 

If you're serious about Spain, send me an email.

 

Alias

Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message

> news:g0npar$7o8$2@aioe.org...

>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>>> "Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message

>>> news:2E5A8BF6-8DA4-4129-B7D7-A88CF082CEB9@microsoft.com...

>>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message

>>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware

>>>>>>> long before it was released.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very

>>>>>>> good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with

>>>>>> Vista Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what

>>>>>> I'd call high end.

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap

>>>>> hardware to build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even

>>>>> cover the cost of buying retail Ultimate in Spain.

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are

>>>> living in the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of

>>>> RAM is high end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of

>>>> name brand DDR2 RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that

>>>> will run Vista very well and is easily under $500.00 for the

>>>> hardware which is what I consider to be decent quality.

>>>>

>>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00

>>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00

>>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00

>>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00

>>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00

>>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00

>>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00

>>>>

>>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all

>>>> recognised brand names. If you're not particular about where you

>>>> shop you could probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end.

>>>> It will run any edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The

>>>> system will be stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista

>>>> Home Premium is $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen

>>>> LCD would be another $200.00. The complete system with Vista

>>>> Ultimate is $865.00. Maybe you should move to Canada. It sounds like

>>>> your decision to live in Spain has impacted your computing

>>>> experience. In any case cost is relative to where you live. The

>>>> system specs would not be considered high end anywhere yet Vista

>>>> runs with no problems on it.

>>>>

>>>> --

>>>> Kerry Brown

>>>> MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience: Systems Administration

>>>> http://www.vistahelp.ca/phpBB2/

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Kerry

>>>

>>> Prices for everything are higher in Europe than in North America, and

>>> taxation plays its part.

>>

>> So does MS' iron fist.

>>

>>>

>>> Don't let Alias fool you into believing that Spain is a peasant

>>> country, because it is anything but peasant.

>>

>> I have *never* said that. Frank has but I haven't. I live here and

>> know. Spain is growing by leaps and bounds.

>>

>>> For sure some of the old ways of life still exist, but Spain is as

>>> technologically advanced as most countries, and has been the only

>>> European country growing over the last few years.

>>

>> Do you think you saying something I don't know?

>>>

>>> They may not have the cheap computer fairs as in the UK, but one can

>>> get computers, parts and software at reasonable prices just as one

>>> can in other countries.

>>

>> Parts, yes. MS software, no.

>>

>> Alias

>

>

> You once claimed that Vista was cheaper in some retail outlets, that one

> didn't have to pay full recommended price everywhere..

 

No, I didn't. I said that if you buy it wholesale, it's cheaper.

Nonetheless, it's still cheaper in the US to buy a generic OEM than a

generic OEM here. I have a license to buy wholesale, which means I can

buy generic OEMs. Most people do not.

>

> So software isn't so bad, and cheap parts are readily available. And you

> problem is?

 

My problem isn't with Spain but Microsoft for their discriminating and

unfair pricing tactics.

 

Alias

"Frank" <fb@sto.clm> wrote in message

news:482f6e29$0$5694$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

> Alias wrote:

>

>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>>

>>> "Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message

>>> news:2E5A8BF6-8DA4-4129-B7D7-A88CF082CEB9@microsoft.com...

>>>

>>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message

>>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>>>

>>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware

>>>>>>> long before it was released.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very

>>>>>>> good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista

>>>>>> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call

>>>>>> high end.

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware

>>>>> to build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the

>>>>> cost of buying retail Ultimate in Spain.

 

You can buy it for $10 in Moscow and that's the corporate version that

doesn't have to be activated.

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living

>>>> in the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is

>>>> high end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name brand

>>>> DDR2 RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run Vista

>>>> very well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is what I

>>>> consider to be decent quality.

 

You are correct, without a monitor that's all it should cost. You can buy a

good HP computer with a 22" monitor at Walmart for $800

 

>>>>

>>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00

>>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00

>>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00

>>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00

>>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00

>>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00

>>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00

>>>>

>>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised

>>>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could

>>>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any

>>>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be

>>>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is

>>>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be

>>>> another $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00.

>>>> Maybe you should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live

>>>> in Spain has impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is

>>>> relative to where you live. The system specs would not be considered

>>>> high end anywhere yet Vista runs with no problems on it.

>>>>

>>>> --

>>>> Kerry Brown

>>>> MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience: Systems Administration

>>>> http://www.vistahelp.ca/phpBB2/

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Kerry

>>>

>>> Prices for everything are higher in Europe than in North America, and

>>> taxation plays its part.

>>

>>

>> So does MS' iron fist.

>>

>>>

>>> Don't let Alias fool you into believing that Spain is a peasant country,

>>> because it is anything but peasant.

>>

>>

>> I have *never* said that. Frank has but I haven't.

>

> You're a lying POS ! I never ever said anything at all like that about

> spain.

>

> I live here and know.

>> Spain is growing by leaps and bounds.

>>

>>> For sure some of the old ways of life still exist, but Spain is as

>>> technologically advanced as most countries, and has been the only

>>> European country growing over the last few years.

>>

>>

>> Do you think you saying something I don't know?

>>

>>>

>>> They may not have the cheap computer fairs as in the UK, but one can get

>>> computers, parts and software at reasonable prices just as one can in

>>> other countries.

>>

>>

>> Parts, yes. MS software, no.

>>

>> Alias

"Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message

news:g0opri$di3$1@aioe.org...

> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message

>> news:g0npar$7o8$2@aioe.org...

>>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>>>> "Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message

>>>> news:2E5A8BF6-8DA4-4129-B7D7-A88CF082CEB9@microsoft.com...

>>>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message

>>>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware

>>>>>>>> long before it was released.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very

>>>>>>>> good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista

>>>>>>> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call

>>>>>>> high end.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware

>>>>>> to build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the

>>>>>> cost of buying retail Ultimate in Spain.

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living

>>>>> in the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is

>>>>> high end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name

>>>>> brand DDR2 RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run

>>>>> Vista very well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is

>>>>> what I consider to be decent quality.

>>>>>

>>>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00

>>>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00

>>>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00

>>>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00

>>>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00

>>>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00

>>>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00

>>>>>

>>>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised

>>>>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could

>>>>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any

>>>>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be

>>>>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is

>>>>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be

>>>>> another $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00.

>>>>> Maybe you should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live

>>>>> in Spain has impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is

>>>>> relative to where you live. The system specs would not be considered

>>>>> high end anywhere yet Vista runs with no problems on it.

>>>>>

>>>>> --

>>>>> Kerry Brown

>>>>> MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience: Systems Administration

>>>>> http://www.vistahelp.ca/phpBB2/

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Kerry

>>>>

>>>> Prices for everything are higher in Europe than in North America, and

>>>> taxation plays its part.

>>>

>>> So does MS' iron fist.

>>>

>>>>

>>>> Don't let Alias fool you into believing that Spain is a peasant

>>>> country, because it is anything but peasant.

>>>

>>> I have *never* said that. Frank has but I haven't. I live here and know.

>>> Spain is growing by leaps and bounds.

 

 

Frank has never been out of Podunk, USA

>>>

>>>> For sure some of the old ways of life still exist, but Spain is as

>>>> technologically advanced as most countries, and has been the only

>>>> European country growing over the last few years.

>>>

>>> Do you think you saying something I don't know?

 

You don't ,fatboy

 

 

>>>>

>>>> They may not have the cheap computer fairs as in the UK, but one can

>>>> get computers, parts and software at reasonable prices just as one can

>>>> in other countries.

>>>

>>> Parts, yes. MS software, no.

>>>

>>> Alias

>>

>>

>> You once claimed that Vista was cheaper in some retail outlets, that one

>> didn't have to pay full recommended price everywhere..

>

> No, I didn't. I said that if you buy it wholesale, it's cheaper.

 

And if you use the corporate version it's 0 haha

 

 

> Nonetheless, it's still cheaper in the US to buy a generic OEM than a

> generic OEM here. I have a license to buy wholesale, which means I can buy

> generic OEMs. Most people do not.

>

>>

>> So software isn't so bad, and cheap parts are readily available. And you

>> problem is?

>

> My problem isn't with Spain but Microsoft for their discriminating and

> unfair pricing tactics.

>

> Alias

"Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message

news:g0opc1$b9u$1@aioe.org...

> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message

>> news:g0nlvg$rh5$2@aioe.org...

>>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>>>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message

>>>> news:g0n00k$984$1@aioe.org...

>>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:

>>>>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message

>>>>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>>>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware

>>>>>>>>> long before it was released.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very

>>>>>>>>> good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with

>>>>>>>> Vista Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what

>>>>>>>> I'd call high end.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware

>>>>>>> to build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the

>>>>>>> cost of buying retail Ultimate in Spain.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living

>>>>>> in the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is

>>>>>> high end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name

>>>>>> brand DDR2 RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will

>>>>>> run Vista very well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware

>>>>>> which is what I consider to be decent quality.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00

>>>>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00

>>>>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00

>>>>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00

>>>>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00

>>>>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00

>>>>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00

>>>>>

>>>>> No video or audio card? Are these Canadian or US dollars?

>>>>>

>>>>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised

>>>>>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could

>>>>>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any

>>>>>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be

>>>>>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is

>>>>>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be

>>>>>> another $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00.

>>>>>> Maybe you should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live

>>>>>> in Spain has impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is

>>>>>> relative to where you live. The system specs would not be considered

>>>>>> high end anywhere yet Vista runs with no problems on it.

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Unfortunately, in Spain, you can't buy a copy of a generic OEM Vista

>>>>> (or XP for that matter), only retail, unless you buy a complete

>>>>> computer. If I wanted to buy another copy of Vista or XP, I would get

>>>>> a friend to buy it in the States and send it to me.

>>>>>

>>>>> That said, I didn't move to Spain for computer prices. I hate the cold

>>>>> and where I live, there's sunshine at least 300 days a year and it

>>>>> never goes under 5ºC so Canada is completely out of the question :-)

>>>>>

>>>>> Alias

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> The more I see your answers to other people, the less I think that you

>>>> know about computers..

>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>> Again, Mike plays the more knowledgeable than thou card like a true MS

>>> fanboy. Frank would be proud of you.

>>>

>>> Fact is, you know more than I and I know more than you.

>>>

>>> Alias

>>

>>

>> The fact is that I have also lived and worked in Spain, and France, and

>> the UK, and the US. You may be able to pull the wool over the eyes of

>> some, but you will not get away with doing it to me..

>>

>>

>

> You've made two claims:

>

> 1. I don't know anything about computers

>

> and

>

> 2. I am pulling the wool over the eyes of some.

>

> Can you explain or are you like Frank and just insult people because you

> can?

>

> Alias

 

 

When you responded to Kerry initially with "no video card, no sound card?',

that showed that you didn't know that virtually all motherboards, especially

at the cheaper end, invariably have integrated video, sound, LAN. If you

worked on computers, you would know this, whether in the US or EU.

 

Re prices, the US has always had cheap prices compared to the rest of the

world. It isn't just Microsoft. Europeans have traditionally paid double the

price that Americans pay for any commodity/product. I understand that

Australia is even worse.

 

--

Mike Hall - MVP

How to construct a good post..

http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm

How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=newswhelp&style=toc

Mike's Window - My Blog..

http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

"Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message

news:g0opri$di3$1@aioe.org...

> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message

>> news:g0npar$7o8$2@aioe.org...

>>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>>>> "Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message

>>>> news:2E5A8BF6-8DA4-4129-B7D7-A88CF082CEB9@microsoft.com...

>>>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message

>>>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware

>>>>>>>> long before it was released.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very

>>>>>>>> good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista

>>>>>>> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call

>>>>>>> high end.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware

>>>>>> to build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the

>>>>>> cost of buying retail Ultimate in Spain.

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living

>>>>> in the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is

>>>>> high end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name

>>>>> brand DDR2 RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run

>>>>> Vista very well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is

>>>>> what I consider to be decent quality.

>>>>>

>>>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00

>>>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00

>>>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00

>>>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00

>>>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00

>>>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00

>>>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00

>>>>>

>>>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised

>>>>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could

>>>>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any

>>>>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be

>>>>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is

>>>>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be

>>>>> another $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00.

>>>>> Maybe you should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live

>>>>> in Spain has impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is

>>>>> relative to where you live. The system specs would not be considered

>>>>> high end anywhere yet Vista runs with no problems on it.

>>>>>

>>>>> --

>>>>> Kerry Brown

>>>>> MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience: Systems Administration

>>>>> http://www.vistahelp.ca/phpBB2/

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Kerry

>>>>

>>>> Prices for everything are higher in Europe than in North America, and

>>>> taxation plays its part.

>>>

>>> So does MS' iron fist.

>>>

>>>>

>>>> Don't let Alias fool you into believing that Spain is a peasant

>>>> country, because it is anything but peasant.

>>>

>>> I have *never* said that. Frank has but I haven't. I live here and know.

>>> Spain is growing by leaps and bounds.

>>>

>>>> For sure some of the old ways of life still exist, but Spain is as

>>>> technologically advanced as most countries, and has been the only

>>>> European country growing over the last few years.

>>>

>>> Do you think you saying something I don't know?

>>>>

>>>> They may not have the cheap computer fairs as in the UK, but one can

>>>> get computers, parts and software at reasonable prices just as one can

>>>> in other countries.

>>>

>>> Parts, yes. MS software, no.

>>>

>>> Alias

>>

>>

>> You once claimed that Vista was cheaper in some retail outlets, that one

>> didn't have to pay full recommended price everywhere..

>

> No, I didn't. I said that if you buy it wholesale, it's cheaper.

> Nonetheless, it's still cheaper in the US to buy a generic OEM than a

> generic OEM here. I have a license to buy wholesale, which means I can buy

> generic OEMs. Most people do not.

>

>>

>> So software isn't so bad, and cheap parts are readily available. And you

>> problem is?

>

> My problem isn't with Spain but Microsoft for their discriminating and

> unfair pricing tactics.

>

> Alias

 

 

Its as well you don't drive, otherwise you would have a problem with Ford's

EU pricing compared to US too..

 

 

--

Mike Hall - MVP

How to construct a good post..

http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm

How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=newswhelp&style=toc

Mike's Window - My Blog..

http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

"Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message

news:g0opc1$b9u$1@aioe.org...

 

>

> You've made two claims:

>

> 1. I don't know anything about computers

>

> and

>

> 2. I am pulling the wool over the eyes of some.

 

As evidence I would add

 

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9085980&intsrc=hm_list

 

and the fact that you choose the word "yawn" when asked if you have fixed

the Ubuntu computers you have installed.

You don't think its a problem so it proves that either you know little or

that you are pulling the wool over peoples eyes or both.

>

> Can you explain or are you like Frank and just insult people because you

> can?

 

You do your own share of insulting people here including calling them liars

when they point out your "errors".

>

> Alias

"Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote in message

news:N8OXj.276233$pM4.242810@pd7urf1no...

 

>>

>> The more I see your answers to other people, the less I think that you

>> know about computers..

>

> Listen, he is in Spain. EU. They have to pay for the Microsoft

> anti-trust conviction that the US didn't enforce. Predatory pricing and

> the like.

 

So M$ are guilty of having inflated prices and predatory pricing at the same

time?

 

>

> Nice adoption ground for Linux I bet. I wonder if I should take a Spanish

> course, always liked the people.

>

 

Good for Linux maybe, not so good for Ubuntu anymore.

"Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote in message

news:oHOXj.276267$pM4.195619@pd7urf1no...

> Abet, we don't get so screwed as Spain. But if it is local retailers, why

> not let the users just download it, spit them a PDF with keys and have one

> (legal) price for the whole world and not this price fixing?

 

Spain is a part of the EU, anyone, including Alias can buy from anywhere in

the EU and pay their prices and tax.

If anyone really wanted too they can order from ebuyer.co.uk and pay and

have it shipped to Spain.

The same as I can buy stuff in Germany and have it shipped to the UK.

The pricing that alias uses is just a smoke screen, nothing else.

Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message

> news:g0opc1$b9u$1@aioe.org...

>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message

>>> news:g0nlvg$rh5$2@aioe.org...

>>>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>>>>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message

>>>>> news:g0n00k$984$1@aioe.org...

>>>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:

>>>>>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message

>>>>>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>>>>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end

>>>>>>>>>> hardware long before it was released.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a

>>>>>>>>>> very good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with

>>>>>>>>> Vista Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly

>>>>>>>>> what I'd call high end.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap

>>>>>>>> hardware to build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't

>>>>>>>> even cover the cost of buying retail Ultimate in Spain.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are

>>>>>>> living in the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB

>>>>>>> of RAM is high end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada

>>>>>>> 2GB of name brand DDR2 RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical

>>>>>>> configuration that will run Vista very well and is easily under

>>>>>>> $500.00 for the hardware which is what I consider to be decent

>>>>>>> quality.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00

>>>>>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00

>>>>>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00

>>>>>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00

>>>>>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00

>>>>>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00

>>>>>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00

>>>>>>

>>>>>> No video or audio card? Are these Canadian or US dollars?

>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all

>>>>>>> recognised brand names. If you're not particular about where you

>>>>>>> shop you could probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high

>>>>>>> end. It will run any edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no

>>>>>>> problems. The system will be stable, all drivers are easily

>>>>>>> available. OEM Vista Home Premium is $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A

>>>>>>> decent 19" wide screen LCD would be another $200.00. The complete

>>>>>>> system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00. Maybe you should move to

>>>>>>> Canada. It sounds like your decision to live in Spain has

>>>>>>> impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is relative

>>>>>>> to where you live. The system specs would not be considered high

>>>>>>> end anywhere yet Vista runs with no problems on it.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Unfortunately, in Spain, you can't buy a copy of a generic OEM

>>>>>> Vista (or XP for that matter), only retail, unless you buy a

>>>>>> complete computer. If I wanted to buy another copy of Vista or XP,

>>>>>> I would get a friend to buy it in the States and send it to me.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> That said, I didn't move to Spain for computer prices. I hate the

>>>>>> cold and where I live, there's sunshine at least 300 days a year

>>>>>> and it never goes under 5ºC so Canada is completely out of the

>>>>>> question :-)

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Alias

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> The more I see your answers to other people, the less I think that

>>>>> you know about computers..

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Again, Mike plays the more knowledgeable than thou card like a true

>>>> MS fanboy. Frank would be proud of you.

>>>>

>>>> Fact is, you know more than I and I know more than you.

>>>>

>>>> Alias

>>>

>>>

>>> The fact is that I have also lived and worked in Spain, and France,

>>> and the UK, and the US. You may be able to pull the wool over the

>>> eyes of some, but you will not get away with doing it to me..

>>>

>>>

>>

>> You've made two claims:

>>

>> 1. I don't know anything about computers

>>

>> and

>>

>> 2. I am pulling the wool over the eyes of some.

>>

>> Can you explain or are you like Frank and just insult people because

>> you can?

>>

>> Alias

>

>

> When you responded to Kerry initially with "no video card, no sound

> card?', that showed that you didn't know that virtually all

> motherboards, especially at the cheaper end, invariably have integrated

> video, sound, LAN. If you worked on computers, you would know this,

> whether in the US or EU.

 

I have known this for over a decade. I also know that low end GPUs and

audio cards are not expensive.

> Re prices, the US has always had cheap prices compared to the rest of

> the world. It isn't just Microsoft. Europeans have traditionally paid

> double the price that Americans pay for any commodity/product. I

> understand that Australia is even worse.

 

Give me a break! I have spoken with three major computer store chains in

Spain and ALL of them tell me MS sets their prices and prohibits them

from selling a generic OEM version of Windows or Office without a

complete computer. Wine is cheaper in Spain than the US and, guess what,

hot shot, wine is a commodity. I can list many things that are cheaper

in Spain than in the US but anything MS isn't on the list.

 

Alias

"Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote in message

news:oHOXj.276267$pM4.195619@pd7urf1no...

>

> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@remove_mvps.com> wrote in message

> news:eJxDSbGuIHA.4528@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>> "Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message

>> news:2E5A8BF6-8DA4-4129-B7D7-A88CF082CEB9@microsoft.com...

>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message

>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware long

>>>>>> before it was released.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very

>>>>>> good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista

>>>>> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call

>>>>> high end.

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware to

>>>> build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the cost of

>>>> buying retail Ultimate in Spain.

>>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living in

>>> the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is high

>>> end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name brand DDR2

>>> RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run Vista very

>>> well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is what I

>>> consider to be decent quality.

>>>

>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00

>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00

>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00

>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00

>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00

>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00

>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00

>>>

>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised

>>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could

>>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any

>>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be

>>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is

>>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be another

>>> $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00. Maybe you

>>> should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live in Spain has

>>> impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is relative to

>>> where you live. The system specs would not be considered high end

>>> anywhere yet Vista runs with no problems on it.

>>>

>>> --

>>> Kerry Brown

>>> MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience: Systems Administration

>>> http://www.vistahelp.ca/phpBB2/

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>

>>

>> Kerry

>>

>> Prices for everything are higher in Europe than in North America, and

>> taxation plays its part.

>>

>> Don't let Alias fool you into believing that Spain is a peasant country,

>> because it is anything but peasant. For sure some of the old ways of life

>> still exist, but Spain is as technologically advanced as most countries,

>> and has been the only European country growing over the last few years.

>>

>> They may not have the cheap computer fairs as in the UK, but one can get

>> computers, parts and software at reasonable prices just as one can in

>> other countries.

>

> First, Canada has a tax treaty called NAFTA. Explain:

> - why is MS products 20-30% higher in Canada, it isn't taxes.

> - why will US companies sell books, PCs but not MS over the border?

>

> Abet, we don't get so screwed as Spain. But if it is local retailers, why

> not let the users just download it, spit them a PDF with keys and have one

> (legal) price for the whole world and not this price fixing?

>

> Cuts out the middle man too. Shrink wrap is so last century. I don't

> even load Solaris with physical CD/DVDs any more. Haven't for three

> years. Ditto Linux. (Yes, Linux loads over a network).

>

> Taiwan, real cheap. Eee PC, special price, abet not Vista fatware but XP

> re-incarnated. You know, the defunct OS. I can get Eee PCs here in

> Canada for the same price as California, XP or Linux. BTW, over a million

> Eee PCs with Linux sold. That extra memory is nice.

>

> Come now...Microsoft is no longer competitive and is predatory in pricing.

> Bet I could buy a copy of XP (english) legal cheaper in the orient than in

> the US, even Redmond.

>

> MS is digging its grave.

>

 

 

Free trade maybe, but until recently, the exchange rate was not favorable

for buying US goods in Canada. Now, US products are the same price on both

sides of the border, but the US will not buy Canadian now because it is more

expensive than it was..

 

--

Mike Hall - MVP

How to construct a good post..

http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm

How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=newswhelp&style=toc

Mike's Window - My Blog..

http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

dennis@home wrote:

>

>

> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message

> news:g0opc1$b9u$1@aioe.org...

>

>

>>

>> You've made two claims:

>>

>> 1. I don't know anything about computers

>>

>> and

>>

>> 2. I am pulling the wool over the eyes of some.

>

> As evidence I would add

>

> http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9085980&intsrc=hm_list

>

>

> and the fact that you choose the word "yawn" when asked if you have

> fixed the Ubuntu computers you have installed.

 

I answered it in another thread. Why should I do round and update

computers? No one that sells or installs Windows does that and it wasn't

part of the agreement I made with them.

> You don't think its a problem so it proves that either you know little

> or that you are pulling the wool over peoples eyes or both.

 

It is a problem and I have never said it isn't. If asked, I will give my

advice. No one has paid me for a service contract.

>> Can you explain or are you like Frank and just insult people because

>> you can?

>

> You do your own share of insulting people here including calling them

> liars when they point out your "errors".

 

There's a big difference between that and when Frank spews his lies,

insults, profanity, weird sexual fantasies and bluster. The question is

why you *never* call him on it. Does having Vista installed give one a

license to be like Frank?

 

Alias

Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message

> news:g0opri$di3$1@aioe.org...

>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message

>>> news:g0npar$7o8$2@aioe.org...

>>>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>>>>> "Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message

>>>>> news:2E5A8BF6-8DA4-4129-B7D7-A88CF082CEB9@microsoft.com...

>>>>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message

>>>>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>>>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end

>>>>>>>>> hardware long before it was released.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a

>>>>>>>>> very good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with

>>>>>>>> Vista Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what

>>>>>>>> I'd call high end.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap

>>>>>>> hardware to build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even

>>>>>>> cover the cost of buying retail Ultimate in Spain.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are

>>>>>> living in the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB

>>>>>> of RAM is high end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada

>>>>>> 2GB of name brand DDR2 RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical

>>>>>> configuration that will run Vista very well and is easily under

>>>>>> $500.00 for the hardware which is what I consider to be decent

>>>>>> quality.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00

>>>>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00

>>>>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00

>>>>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00

>>>>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00

>>>>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00

>>>>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all

>>>>>> recognised brand names. If you're not particular about where you

>>>>>> shop you could probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end.

>>>>>> It will run any edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems.

>>>>>> The system will be stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM

>>>>>> Vista Home Premium is $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide

>>>>>> screen LCD would be another $200.00. The complete system with

>>>>>> Vista Ultimate is $865.00. Maybe you should move to Canada. It

>>>>>> sounds like your decision to live in Spain has impacted your

>>>>>> computing experience. In any case cost is relative to where you

>>>>>> live. The system specs would not be considered high end anywhere

>>>>>> yet Vista runs with no problems on it.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> --

>>>>>> Kerry Brown

>>>>>> MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience: Systems Administration

>>>>>> http://www.vistahelp.ca/phpBB2/

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Kerry

>>>>>

>>>>> Prices for everything are higher in Europe than in North America,

>>>>> and taxation plays its part.

>>>>

>>>> So does MS' iron fist.

>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Don't let Alias fool you into believing that Spain is a peasant

>>>>> country, because it is anything but peasant.

>>>>

>>>> I have *never* said that. Frank has but I haven't. I live here and

>>>> know. Spain is growing by leaps and bounds.

>>>>

>>>>> For sure some of the old ways of life still exist, but Spain is as

>>>>> technologically advanced as most countries, and has been the only

>>>>> European country growing over the last few years.

>>>>

>>>> Do you think you saying something I don't know?

>>>>>

>>>>> They may not have the cheap computer fairs as in the UK, but one

>>>>> can get computers, parts and software at reasonable prices just as

>>>>> one can in other countries.

>>>>

>>>> Parts, yes. MS software, no.

>>>>

>>>> Alias

>>>

>>>

>>> You once claimed that Vista was cheaper in some retail outlets, that

>>> one didn't have to pay full recommended price everywhere..

>>

>> No, I didn't. I said that if you buy it wholesale, it's cheaper.

>> Nonetheless, it's still cheaper in the US to buy a generic OEM than a

>> generic OEM here. I have a license to buy wholesale, which means I can

>> buy generic OEMs. Most people do not.

>>

>>>

>>> So software isn't so bad, and cheap parts are readily available. And

>>> you problem is?

>>

>> My problem isn't with Spain but Microsoft for their discriminating and

>> unfair pricing tactics.

>>

>> Alias

>

>

> Its as well you don't drive, otherwise you would have a problem with

> Ford's EU pricing compared to US too..

>

>

 

Just because others do it too doesn't make it right or didn't your mommy

teach you that two wrongs don't make a right?

 

Alias

dennis@home wrote:

>

>

>

> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message

> news:g0opc1$b9u$1@aioe.org...

>

>

>>

>> You've made two claims:

>>

>> 1. I don't know anything about computers

>>

>> and

>>

>> 2. I am pulling the wool over the eyes of some.

>

> As evidence I would add

>

> http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9085980&intsrc=hm_list

>

 

From the article:

 

"Moore, ISC's Zdrnja and others have recommended that Debian and Ubuntu

users patch their systems -- updates are available". The Update is an

orange star that appears with a big balloon stating updates are

available. Gosh, that's hard to figure out. Do think that Ubuntu users

can get that done without help?

 

Alias

dennis@home wrote:

>

>

> "Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote in message

> news:N8OXj.276233$pM4.242810@pd7urf1no...

>

>

>>>

>>> The more I see your answers to other people, the less I think that

>>> you know about computers..

>>

>> Listen, he is in Spain. EU. They have to pay for the Microsoft

>> anti-trust conviction that the US didn't enforce. Predatory pricing

>> and the like.

>

> So M$ are guilty of having inflated prices and predatory pricing at the

> same time?

>

>

>>

>> Nice adoption ground for Linux I bet. I wonder if I should take a

>> Spanish course, always liked the people.

>>

>

> Good for Linux maybe, not so good for Ubuntu anymore.

>

>

 

Really? How so?

 

Alias

dennis@home wrote:

>

>

> "Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote in message

> news:oHOXj.276267$pM4.195619@pd7urf1no...

>

>> Abet, we don't get so screwed as Spain. But if it is local retailers,

>> why not let the users just download it, spit them a PDF with keys and

>> have one (legal) price for the whole world and not this price fixing?

>

> Spain is a part of the EU, anyone, including Alias can buy from anywhere

> in the EU and pay their prices and tax.

> If anyone really wanted too they can order from ebuyer.co.uk and pay and

> have it shipped to Spain.

> The same as I can buy stuff in Germany and have it shipped to the UK.

> The pricing that alias uses is just a smoke screen, nothing else.

>

>

>

>

 

So, you're saying the pricing I quoted is a lie and that the stores put

those prices on their web site are only kidding and sell it for less?

 

Puhlease.

 

Alias

"Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote in message

news:nwOXj.147771$Cj7.96965@pd7urf2no...

>

> "Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message

> news:ACCA7C71-EDF0-48E4-9F41-B8D4E17907FD@microsoft.com...

>> "Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote in message

>> news:UlGXj.146998$Cj7.110714@pd7urf2no...

>>>

>>> "Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message

>>> news:2E5A8BF6-8DA4-4129-B7D7-A88CF082CEB9@microsoft.com...

>>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message

>>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end hardware

>>>>>>> long before it was released.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a very

>>>>>>> good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with Vista

>>>>>> Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what I'd call

>>>>>> high end.

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap hardware

>>>>> to build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even cover the

>>>>> cost of buying retail Ultimate in Spain.

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are living

>>>> in the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB of RAM is

>>>> high end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada 2GB of name brand

>>>> DDR2 RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical configuration that will run Vista

>>>> very well and is easily under $500.00 for the hardware which is what I

>>>> consider to be decent quality.

>>>>

>>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00

>>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00

>>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00

>>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00

>>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00

>>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00

>>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00

>>>>

>>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all recognised

>>>> brand names. If you're not particular about where you shop you could

>>>> probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end. It will run any

>>>> edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems. The system will be

>>>> stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM Vista Home Premium is

>>>> $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be

>>>> another $200.00. The complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00.

>>>> Maybe you should move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live

>>>> in Spain has impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is

>>>> relative to where you live. The system specs would not be considered

>>>> high end anywhere yet Vista runs with no problems on it.

>>>

>>> You are quoting OEM versions. He is talking the full retail. You know,

>>> the better ones that are complete and recoverable. You also are without

>>> office tools. Add in business or ultimate office tools you are well

>>> over the $1000, more than twice the price of the total hardware package.

>>

>> Generic OEM disks are a full install just like a retail disk. You may be

>> thinking of the large OEMs like Dell and HP. I wouldn't wish that user

>> experience on anyone. They install so much crap even a Quad Core would

>> struggle. As for Office you are the first person to mention it. I don't

>> see it anywhere else in the thread. Open Office runs equally well on

>> Vista or Linux so there's no difference there. If you need Microsoft

>> Office then despite what people say about Wine you really need a

>> Microsoft OS to run it properly.

>

> Never have run MS-Office under wine, always use Open Office. It does run

> equally as well on multiple platforms, which is great in my profession.

>

>

>>> Me, got a Q6600, 4GB RAM, 22" wide LCD, 500GB drive, Vista (not so)

>>> Premium x64 OEM, keyboard, mouse, cables, $749 at Best Buy. No assembly

>>> required and a warranty. But I did a refit, to 8GB RAM, 2nd hard drive

>>> and a dedicated 8500GT 256M fanless video.

>>>

>>> Runs Vista like a pig (file/network copy specifically), but Ubuntu with

>>> Compiz, smoking hot and fast.

>>>

>>

>> Then something is wrong. I dual boot Ubuntu and Vista Business on this

>> laptop. They run about the same speed doing the same tasks. If anything

>> the Vista Atheros wireless driver is a little faster than the MadWifi

>> driver in Ubuntu so wireless is a bit faster in Vista on this machine.

>> Other than that I don't notice much difference other than the UI. Both

>> have been very stable with few problems.

>

> Where I hit problems that really gets me can be summed up as:

>

> - copy disk to disk, large files, painfully slow compared to XP or Linux.

> - copy to/from the network, again, painfully slow

> - CIFS shares, haven't got them working with Samba (yet).

> - they still haven't fixed 8 year old bugs in Express/Mail.

>

> Running Fedora or Ubuntu on the same hardware does not show the same

> issues. Seems very Vista specific. And with Linux, can use NFS native for

> the media storage and quick...

>

> My 3 year old XP, no problems, but it is different hardware but

> older/slower hardware. IDE versus SATA etc.

>

> On my laptop, the Atheros driver works like lighting using Ubuntu, Fedora

> or OpenBSD. But haven't tried it with Vista. Given my laptop has only

> 512M, that would be a time waster to bring Vista near it.

>

> For network though, I did pull up Vista performance monitor of sorts,

> square topped at 5mbs on a 100MBS network. Never could get it to do

> better. Tied dozens of things. I may be extra sensitive to this as I

> routinely copy around DVD sized ISO/zip images. And Vista, not liveable.

> XP was always slower than Linux, but comparable. Vista, slugware.

>

> Didn't have any Vista crashes though. This part of Vista, never

> experienced. Stable yes, slow, yes. Incompatible yes. Keeping my XP

> alive and running. And don't have to update VMWare. Treating Vista as a

> sunk unrecoverable cost on the last PC. MS tax if you will. Only real

> value was if a customer needs me to use it I will not be blank faced.

>

 

 

My laptop uses the Atheros 5007eg chipset which isn't supported in any of

the current distros I've tried. I was surprised it wasn't in Hardy Heron.

You have to download and compile the driver from madwifi.org. Acer had Vista

x86 and x64 drivers for download. It is definitely faster in Vista.

 

I initially had some problems with slow networking and file copies. I

routinely copy DVD iso's from my server to workstations. I do a lot of beta

testing and store a lot of iso's on the server. I copy them to a local drive

for use with vm's. This was painfully slow when I first started using Vista.

I found I had to RDP to the server from the Vista machine and start the copy

from the server. I replaced my router with a newer model and some of the

problems went away. With the old router I had to disable most of the

advanced networking features in Vista to get any speed at all. It did get

better as I installed updates. I'm guessing the switch in the old router

couldn't handle the advanced features properly. Currently with SP1 and the

new router network file transfers with Vista are on par with Linux. On some

computers Linux is slightly faster, on some Vista wins. I'm guessing this is

because of drivers, not the OS. I don't have XP anywhere but in vm's anymore

and that wouldn't be a fair comparison so I can't comment on Vista vs XP

file transfers. Transferring many small files from USB flash drives still

seems a little slow in Vista but other than that, for me, the file copy

problems have been sorted.

 

--

Kerry Brown

MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience: Systems Administration

http://www.vistahelp.ca/phpBB2/

Alias wrote:

> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>

>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message

>> news:g0nlvg$rh5$2@aioe.org...

>>

>>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>>>

>>>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message

>>>> news:g0n00k$984$1@aioe.org...

>>>>

>>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message

>>>>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end

>>>>>>>>> hardware long before it was released.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a

>>>>>>>>> very good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with

>>>>>>>> Vista Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly what

>>>>>>>> I'd call high end.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap

>>>>>>> hardware to build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't even

>>>>>>> cover the cost of buying retail Ultimate in Spain.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are

>>>>>> living in the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB

>>>>>> of RAM is high end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada

>>>>>> 2GB of name brand DDR2 RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical

>>>>>> configuration that will run Vista very well and is easily under

>>>>>> $500.00 for the hardware which is what I consider to be decent

>>>>>> quality.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00

>>>>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00

>>>>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00

>>>>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00

>>>>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00

>>>>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00

>>>>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> No video or audio card? Are these Canadian or US dollars?

>>>>>

>>>>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all

>>>>>> recognised brand names. If you're not particular about where you

>>>>>> shop you could probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high end.

>>>>>> It will run any edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no problems.

>>>>>> The system will be stable, all drivers are easily available. OEM

>>>>>> Vista Home Premium is $125.00, Ultimate $205.00. A decent 19" wide

>>>>>> screen LCD would be another $200.00. The complete system with

>>>>>> Vista Ultimate is $865.00. Maybe you should move to Canada. It

>>>>>> sounds like your decision to live in Spain has impacted your

>>>>>> computing experience. In any case cost is relative to where you

>>>>>> live. The system specs would not be considered high end anywhere

>>>>>> yet Vista runs with no problems on it.

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Unfortunately, in Spain, you can't buy a copy of a generic OEM

>>>>> Vista (or XP for that matter), only retail, unless you buy a

>>>>> complete computer. If I wanted to buy another copy of Vista or XP,

>>>>> I would get a friend to buy it in the States and send it to me.

>>>>>

>>>>> That said, I didn't move to Spain for computer prices. I hate the

>>>>> cold and where I live, there's sunshine at least 300 days a year

>>>>> and it never goes under 5ºC so Canada is completely out of the

>>>>> question :-)

>>>>>

>>>>> Alias

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> The more I see your answers to other people, the less I think that

>>>> you know about computers..

>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>> Again, Mike plays the more knowledgeable than thou card like a true

>>> MS fanboy. Frank would be proud of you.

>>>

>>> Fact is, you know more than I and I know more than you.

>>>

>>> Alias

>>

>>

>>

>> The fact is that I have also lived and worked in Spain, and France,

>> and the UK, and the US. You may be able to pull the wool over the eyes

>> of some, but you will not get away with doing it to me..

>>

>>

>

> You've made two claims:

>

> 1. I don't know anything about computers

>

> and

>

> 2. I am pulling the wool over the eyes of some.

>

> Can you explain or are you like Frank and just insult people because you

> can?

>

> Alias

 

Can you explain why you're even here?

Frank

Alias wrote:

> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>

>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message

>> news:g0opc1$b9u$1@aioe.org...

>>

>>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>>>

>>>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message

>>>> news:g0nlvg$rh5$2@aioe.org...

>>>>

>>>>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message

>>>>>> news:g0n00k$984$1@aioe.org...

>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> ":: Alias ::" <iamalias@TAKEOUTgmail.com> wrote in message

>>>>>>>> news:ulQE10CuIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> Kerry Brown wrote:

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> Yes you did. You knew that Vista would require high end

>>>>>>>>>>> hardware long before it was released.

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> I don't need to use *anything* to discredit Vista. It does a

>>>>>>>>>>> very good job all by itself and doesn't need my help.

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> I build systems for $600.00 (not including a monitor, but with

>>>>>>>>>> Vista Home Premium) that run Vista very well. That's hardly

>>>>>>>>>> what I'd call high end.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> A price does not tell us anything except that you buy cheap

>>>>>>>>> hardware to build computers. Six hundred US dollars wouldn't

>>>>>>>>> even cover the cost of buying retail Ultimate in Spain.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> I'm actually very particular about the hardware I use. You are

>>>>>>>> living in the past. You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2GB

>>>>>>>> of RAM is high end. I don't know about Spain but here in Canada

>>>>>>>> 2GB of name brand DDR2 RAM is $60.00. Here's a typical

>>>>>>>> configuration that will run Vista very well and is easily under

>>>>>>>> $500.00 for the hardware which is what I consider to be decent

>>>>>>>> quality.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L motherboard $85.00

>>>>>>>> Intel E2200 CPU $95.00

>>>>>>>> 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 800 MHz $60.00

>>>>>>>> Seagate 250GB SATA-II hard drive $65.00

>>>>>>>> LG GSA H55 DVDRW $40.00

>>>>>>>> Gigabyte X1BPD case with 400 watt PSU $85.00

>>>>>>>> Microsoft Value Pack keyboard and mouse $30.00

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> No video or audio card? Are these Canadian or US dollars?

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Total cost of hardware $460.00. This is retail prices, all

>>>>>>>> recognised brand names. If you're not particular about where you

>>>>>>>> shop you could probably get it even cheaper. It's hardly high

>>>>>>>> end. It will run any edition of Vista 32 or 64 bit with no

>>>>>>>> problems. The system will be stable, all drivers are easily

>>>>>>>> available. OEM Vista Home Premium is $125.00, Ultimate $205.00.

>>>>>>>> A decent 19" wide screen LCD would be another $200.00. The

>>>>>>>> complete system with Vista Ultimate is $865.00. Maybe you should

>>>>>>>> move to Canada. It sounds like your decision to live in Spain

>>>>>>>> has impacted your computing experience. In any case cost is

>>>>>>>> relative to where you live. The system specs would not be

>>>>>>>> considered high end anywhere yet Vista runs with no problems on it.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Unfortunately, in Spain, you can't buy a copy of a generic OEM

>>>>>>> Vista (or XP for that matter), only retail, unless you buy a

>>>>>>> complete computer. If I wanted to buy another copy of Vista or

>>>>>>> XP, I would get a friend to buy it in the States and send it to me.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> That said, I didn't move to Spain for computer prices. I hate the

>>>>>>> cold and where I live, there's sunshine at least 300 days a year

>>>>>>> and it never goes under 5ºC so Canada is completely out of the

>>>>>>> question :-)

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Alias

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> The more I see your answers to other people, the less I think that

>>>>>> you know about computers..

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Again, Mike plays the more knowledgeable than thou card like a true

>>>>> MS fanboy. Frank would be proud of you.

>>>>>

>>>>> Fact is, you know more than I and I know more than you.

>>>>>

>>>>> Alias

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> The fact is that I have also lived and worked in Spain, and France,

>>>> and the UK, and the US. You may be able to pull the wool over the

>>>> eyes of some, but you will not get away with doing it to me..

>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>> You've made two claims:

>>>

>>> 1. I don't know anything about computers

>>>

>>> and

>>>

>>> 2. I am pulling the wool over the eyes of some.

>>>

>>> Can you explain or are you like Frank and just insult people because

>>> you can?

>>>

>>> Alias

>>

>>

>>

>> When you responded to Kerry initially with "no video card, no sound

>> card?', that showed that you didn't know that virtually all

>> motherboards, especially at the cheaper end, invariably have

>> integrated video, sound, LAN. If you worked on computers, you would

>> know this, whether in the US or EU.

>

>

> I have known this for over a decade. I also know that low end GPUs and

> audio cards are not expensive.

>

>> Re prices, the US has always had cheap prices compared to the rest of

>> the world. It isn't just Microsoft. Europeans have traditionally paid

>> double the price that Americans pay for any commodity/product. I

>> understand that Australia is even worse.

>

>

> Give me a break! I have spoken with three major computer store chains in

> Spain and ALL of them tell me MS sets their prices and prohibits them

> from selling a generic OEM version of Windows or Office without a

> complete computer.

 

Did they pull your leg with the bells or the one with the whistles on it?

 

Wine is cheaper in Spain than the US and, guess what,

> hot shot, wine is a commodity.

 

So you're a drunkard just like mr pig huh?

Figures.

 

I can list many things that are cheaper

> in Spain than in the US but anything MS isn't on the list.

 

The EU's mario the dictator would blow a gasket if they even thought

that MS was setting the retail price of it's software in Europe. You

know nothing as you continually demonstrate in this ng.

Stick to selling free software to little old ladies, loser.

Frank

Alias wrote:

> dennis@home wrote:

>

>>

>>

>> "Alias" <iamalias@nukethisgmail.com> wrote in message

>> news:g0opc1$b9u$1@aioe.org...

>>

>>

>>>

>>> You've made two claims:

>>>

>>> 1. I don't know anything about computers

>>>

>>> and

>>>

>>> 2. I am pulling the wool over the eyes of some.

>>

>>

>> As evidence I would add

>>

>> http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9085980&intsrc=hm_list

>>

>>

>> and the fact that you choose the word "yawn" when asked if you have

>> fixed the Ubuntu computers you have installed.

>

>

> I answered it in another thread. Why should I do round and update

> computers? No one that sells or installs Windows does that and it wasn't

> part of the agreement I made with them.

>

>> You don't think its a problem so it proves that either you know little

>> or that you are pulling the wool over peoples eyes or both.

>

>

> It is a problem and I have never said it isn't. If asked, I will give my

> advice. No one has paid me for a service contract.

>

>>> Can you explain or are you like Frank and just insult people because

>>> you can?

>>

>>

>> You do your own share of insulting people here including calling them

>> liars when they point out your "errors".

>

>

> There's a big difference between that and when Frank spews his lies,

> insults, profanity, weird sexual fantasies and bluster.

 

You can't post without referencing me can you? You're really weak and a

pathetic excuse for a human being.

 

The question is

> why you *never* call him on it.

 

Let us not forget your past sins or would you like a reminder of them huh?

 

Does having Vista installed give one a

> license to be like Frank?

 

Does not having Vista installed give one a license to be like alias?

Frank