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My zero-defect Vista - let the flames begin!

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Adam Albright wrote:

> On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:24:21 -0700, Frank <fb@nospamer.cmn> wrote:

>

>

>>Adam Albright wrote:

>>

>>

>>

>>>I've seen several studies covering two areas were "pirating" is

>>>common, software and music. The studies conclude that the piracy has a

>>>slight impact all right... it INCREASES sales in the long run...

>>

>>-----------------------------------------------

>>

>>You're off topic you stupid idiot.

>>The subject matter is casual pirating, not mass commercial, buying it on

>>every street corner Chinese pirating.

>>You're really and truly stupid aren't you?

>>Frank

>

>

> Take your foot out of your mouth Frankie, you didn't wash your feet in

> over a week. I was referring to casual pirating, numbnuts.

>

Take your pointy head out of your arse for a few seconds and...well go

ahead and leave it there. That's where it's always been and that's where

it belongs.

Frank

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    MICHAEL wrote:

     

    >>I agree.

    >>

    >>DRM cracked again and again and again...... on and on it goes.

    >>http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=585

    >>http://www.betanews.com/article/Windows_Media_DRM_Cracked_Again/1184602691

    >>http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070715-confirmed-microsofts-windows-media-drm-cracked-again.html

    >

    >

    > We all know that Vista has been free for the pirates before it was

    > even released to the general public.

    >

    > The latest DRM crack also works in Vista.

    >

    >

    > -Michael

     

    What does that have to do with activation and casual pirating?

    Frank

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    MICHAEL wrote:

     

    >>I agree.

    >>

    >>DRM cracked again and again and again...... on and on it goes.

    >>http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=585

    >>http://www.betanews.com/article/Windows_Media_DRM_Cracked_Again/1184602691

    >>http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070715-confirmed-microsofts-windows-media-drm-cracked-again.html

    >

    >

    > We all know that Vista has been free for the pirates before it was

    > even released to the general public.

    >

    > The latest DRM crack also works in Vista.

    >

    >

    > -Michael

     

    What does that have to do with activation and casual pirating?

    Frank

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    here@home.again wrote:

    > "Alias" blurted out...

    >> here@home.again wrote:

    >>> "Frank" pointed out...

    >>>> Legitimate users will become "casual pirates" when they "loan" their

    >>>> copy of Windows OS to a family member, friend or acquaintance.

    >>>> This obviously happens rather frequently and is the main target of

    >>>> activation and easiest to deter.

    >>>>

    >>>

    >>> Too true! They just never bother to read the EULA, ever. Windows has

    >>> always been licensed, not sold, since early DOS, and we only buy

    >>> permission to use it on one computer. How many offices installed the same

    >>> copy of '95 or '98 on over twenty systems? How many times has someone

    >>> with a CD-R bootlegged a dozen 'free' copies for their closest friends?

    >>> It may sound penny-ante but it's really nickle 'n diming. I'll explain

    >>> that to any of you children out there too young to get it.

    >> With your logic, Microsoft, Adobe, etc. would have gone out of business

    >> years ago. Reality check: they made billions because most people --

    >> maybe not the people you know -- are honest.

    >>

    >> Alias

    >

    >

    > Who said anything about going out of business? For those "billions" they

    > made, they lost, what, 2 or 3 hundred thousand? -)

    >

    >

     

     

    So by your own admission it's a small problem for which the vast

    majority of honest people have to suffer you calling them thrieves and

    liars...

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    here@home.again wrote:

    > "Alias" blurted out...

    >> here@home.again wrote:

    >>> "Frank" pointed out...

    >>>> Legitimate users will become "casual pirates" when they "loan" their

    >>>> copy of Windows OS to a family member, friend or acquaintance.

    >>>> This obviously happens rather frequently and is the main target of

    >>>> activation and easiest to deter.

    >>>>

    >>>

    >>> Too true! They just never bother to read the EULA, ever. Windows has

    >>> always been licensed, not sold, since early DOS, and we only buy

    >>> permission to use it on one computer. How many offices installed the same

    >>> copy of '95 or '98 on over twenty systems? How many times has someone

    >>> with a CD-R bootlegged a dozen 'free' copies for their closest friends?

    >>> It may sound penny-ante but it's really nickle 'n diming. I'll explain

    >>> that to any of you children out there too young to get it.

    >> With your logic, Microsoft, Adobe, etc. would have gone out of business

    >> years ago. Reality check: they made billions because most people --

    >> maybe not the people you know -- are honest.

    >>

    >> Alias

    >

    >

    > Who said anything about going out of business? For those "billions" they

    > made, they lost, what, 2 or 3 hundred thousand? -)

    >

    >

     

     

    So by your own admission it's a small problem for which the vast

    majority of honest people have to suffer you calling them thrieves and

    liars...

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    Frank wrote:

    > Alias wrote:

    >

    >> Frank wrote:

    >>

    >>> I certainly don't consider myself a thief just because I have to

    >>> activate my software. That thought would never even enter my mind!

    >>

    >>

    >> ...Um, it's MS that thinks you're a thief...

    >

    > Oh? And they state this in which document? Care to post the URL or usurp

    > the actual verbiage and post it here? Cause I have never seen MS call me

    > a thief explicitly or implied in any document, or stated verbally in any

    > forum. You have this problem, not me and not the millions of others who

    > use activated software of which MS's is just one of many.

    > It's your problem unto yourself.

     

    Why in the world do you think activation is in place? To stop kangaroos

    from jumping all over the Redmond campus? Or to stop piracy?

    >

    > until you prove otherwise.

    >

    > Prove otherwise? First they have to call me a thief…which they haven't

    > done. Nor have they called you a thief. But it’s a moot point with you,

    > based on your own scenario seeing as how you don't even have Vista

    > installed and proly never will.

     

    If you don't pass activation, you're a thief. If you do pass activation,

    you're not a thief. Too hard for you, Frankie?

    >

    > MS

    >> could care less what you think.

    >

    > You mean to say, "couldn't care less"...

     

    Actually, if they met you they could care less.

    > well...for a company dealing

    > with the general public that's a rather dumb, ill informed statement

    > that only shows you have never dealt with the general public nor with a

    > publically traded company and seem to know little if anything about

    > marketing.

    > Frank

     

    LOL! What has marketing got to do with it? Are you now saying that WPA

    and WGA are marketing tools? That's rich!

     

    Alias

     

    >

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    Frank wrote:

    > Alias wrote:

    >

    >> Frank wrote:

    >>

    >>> I certainly don't consider myself a thief just because I have to

    >>> activate my software. That thought would never even enter my mind!

    >>

    >>

    >> ...Um, it's MS that thinks you're a thief...

    >

    > Oh? And they state this in which document? Care to post the URL or usurp

    > the actual verbiage and post it here? Cause I have never seen MS call me

    > a thief explicitly or implied in any document, or stated verbally in any

    > forum. You have this problem, not me and not the millions of others who

    > use activated software of which MS's is just one of many.

    > It's your problem unto yourself.

     

    Why in the world do you think activation is in place? To stop kangaroos

    from jumping all over the Redmond campus? Or to stop piracy?

    >

    > until you prove otherwise.

    >

    > Prove otherwise? First they have to call me a thief…which they haven't

    > done. Nor have they called you a thief. But it’s a moot point with you,

    > based on your own scenario seeing as how you don't even have Vista

    > installed and proly never will.

     

    If you don't pass activation, you're a thief. If you do pass activation,

    you're not a thief. Too hard for you, Frankie?

    >

    > MS

    >> could care less what you think.

    >

    > You mean to say, "couldn't care less"...

     

    Actually, if they met you they could care less.

    > well...for a company dealing

    > with the general public that's a rather dumb, ill informed statement

    > that only shows you have never dealt with the general public nor with a

    > publically traded company and seem to know little if anything about

    > marketing.

    > Frank

     

    LOL! What has marketing got to do with it? Are you now saying that WPA

    and WGA are marketing tools? That's rich!

     

    Alias

     

    >

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    Frank wrote:

    > Adam Albright wrote:

    >

    >>

    >>

    >> The whole point of the Microsoft activation scheme is for you to prove

    >> you are a legimate purchaser of Vista.

    >

    >

    > Thanks for verifying my point.

    >

    >

    > So yes, Microsoft assume you

    >> could be a possible thief unless and until you do provide the required

    >> information.

    >

    >

    > Nope! Not true. MS assumes you are the legitimate user until you fail to

    > prove you are not. Sorry but that's not the same thing!

    >

    > That Microsoft thinks that way is confirmed by Vista like

    >> XP before it getting deactivated automatically if you don't.

    >

    > . Activation is simply that last step of purchase. No one has called

    > anyone a thief...no one...like alias wants to have everyone believe.

    >>

    >> Now lets discuss your usual bullsh*t. You pretend Alias is suggesting

    >> Microsoft has a web page somewhere calling people a thief.

    >

    > Can't your read?

    > He implies that they do, not me. Does he have any proof? Do you? If

    > someone is making that claim then provide the proof?

    > Well...?

    >

    >

    > No, but as

    >> I just illustrated they will if you ignore the warnings to activate

    >> the day comes when you no longer will be able to use the OS.

    >

    > Sorry but you'll have limited access, it's not a complete shutdown. This

    > stops casual piracy. In no way is MS calling your a thief. If you don't

    > have a legitimate copy or are trying to be a casual pirate then you will

    > prove yourself a thief. You will do it to yourself...MS believes you to

    > be the legitimate user until such tine as you prove otherwise. Which is

    > the exact opposite of what alias is trying to make people believe and

    > it's just not true.

    >>

    >> You couldn't shove your pointy head any further up Bill Gates rear end

    >> if you tried.

    > Could you possible have any brains at all in that little pointy head of

    > yours?

    > It sure doesn't seem like it!

    > Frank

    >

    > Oh, btw mr genius...did you ever get your computer configure correctly?

     

    The ONLY people who have to prove they're not a thief are paying

    customers. Not one cracked version of XP or Vista needs activation you

    moron!

     

    Alias

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    Frank wrote:

    > Adam Albright wrote:

    >

    >>

    >>

    >> The whole point of the Microsoft activation scheme is for you to prove

    >> you are a legimate purchaser of Vista.

    >

    >

    > Thanks for verifying my point.

    >

    >

    > So yes, Microsoft assume you

    >> could be a possible thief unless and until you do provide the required

    >> information.

    >

    >

    > Nope! Not true. MS assumes you are the legitimate user until you fail to

    > prove you are not. Sorry but that's not the same thing!

    >

    > That Microsoft thinks that way is confirmed by Vista like

    >> XP before it getting deactivated automatically if you don't.

    >

    > . Activation is simply that last step of purchase. No one has called

    > anyone a thief...no one...like alias wants to have everyone believe.

    >>

    >> Now lets discuss your usual bullsh*t. You pretend Alias is suggesting

    >> Microsoft has a web page somewhere calling people a thief.

    >

    > Can't your read?

    > He implies that they do, not me. Does he have any proof? Do you? If

    > someone is making that claim then provide the proof?

    > Well...?

    >

    >

    > No, but as

    >> I just illustrated they will if you ignore the warnings to activate

    >> the day comes when you no longer will be able to use the OS.

    >

    > Sorry but you'll have limited access, it's not a complete shutdown. This

    > stops casual piracy. In no way is MS calling your a thief. If you don't

    > have a legitimate copy or are trying to be a casual pirate then you will

    > prove yourself a thief. You will do it to yourself...MS believes you to

    > be the legitimate user until such tine as you prove otherwise. Which is

    > the exact opposite of what alias is trying to make people believe and

    > it's just not true.

    >>

    >> You couldn't shove your pointy head any further up Bill Gates rear end

    >> if you tried.

    > Could you possible have any brains at all in that little pointy head of

    > yours?

    > It sure doesn't seem like it!

    > Frank

    >

    > Oh, btw mr genius...did you ever get your computer configure correctly?

     

    The ONLY people who have to prove they're not a thief are paying

    customers. Not one cracked version of XP or Vista needs activation you

    moron!

     

    Alias

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    Frank wrote:

    > Adam Albright wrote:

    >

    >> On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 03:36:31 +0200, Alias <aka@masked&anonymous.li>

    >> wrote:

    >>

    >>

    >>> Frank wrote:

    >>>

    >>>

    >>>> I certainly don't consider myself a thief just because I have to

    >>>> activate my software. That thought would never even enter my mind!

    >>>

    >>> Um, it's MS that thinks you're a thief until you prove otherwise. MS

    >>> could care less what you think.

    >>>

    >>> Alias

    >>

    >>

    >> Leave it to Frankie to get it backwards. -)

    >>

    >

    > Leave to georgie-boy to totally misunderstand what is going on.

    > Have you always been this lost?

    > Frank

     

    You're the one who's lost, Frankie Boy. Not one pirate has to activate

    which throws your theory right out the windows.

     

    Alias

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    Frank wrote:

    > Adam Albright wrote:

    >

    >> On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 03:36:31 +0200, Alias <aka@masked&anonymous.li>

    >> wrote:

    >>

    >>

    >>> Frank wrote:

    >>>

    >>>

    >>>> I certainly don't consider myself a thief just because I have to

    >>>> activate my software. That thought would never even enter my mind!

    >>>

    >>> Um, it's MS that thinks you're a thief until you prove otherwise. MS

    >>> could care less what you think.

    >>>

    >>> Alias

    >>

    >>

    >> Leave it to Frankie to get it backwards. -)

    >>

    >

    > Leave to georgie-boy to totally misunderstand what is going on.

    > Have you always been this lost?

    > Frank

     

    You're the one who's lost, Frankie Boy. Not one pirate has to activate

    which throws your theory right out the windows.

     

    Alias

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    Frank wrote:

    > Adam Albright wrote:

    >

    >> On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:24:21 -0700, Frank <fb@nospamer.cmn> wrote:

    >>

    >>

    >>> Adam Albright wrote:

    >>>

    >>>

    >>>

    >>>> I've seen several studies covering two areas were "pirating" is

    >>>> common, software and music. The studies conclude that the piracy has a

    >>>> slight impact all right... it INCREASES sales in the long run...

    >>>

    >>> -----------------------------------------------

    >>>

    >>> You're off topic you stupid idiot.

    >>> The subject matter is casual pirating, not mass commercial, buying it

    >>> on every street corner Chinese pirating.

    >>> You're really and truly stupid aren't you?

    >>> Frank

    >>

    >>

    >> Take your foot out of your mouth Frankie, you didn't wash your feet in

    >> over a week. I was referring to casual pirating, numbnuts.

    >>

    > Take your pointy head out of your arse for a few seconds and...well go

    > ahead and leave it there. That's where it's always been and that's where

    > it belongs.

    > Frank

     

    Translation: Adam has just refuted Frank big time and all Frank has left

    are insults.

     

    Alias

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    Frank wrote:

    > Adam Albright wrote:

    >

    >> On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:24:21 -0700, Frank <fb@nospamer.cmn> wrote:

    >>

    >>

    >>> Adam Albright wrote:

    >>>

    >>>

    >>>

    >>>> I've seen several studies covering two areas were "pirating" is

    >>>> common, software and music. The studies conclude that the piracy has a

    >>>> slight impact all right... it INCREASES sales in the long run...

    >>>

    >>> -----------------------------------------------

    >>>

    >>> You're off topic you stupid idiot.

    >>> The subject matter is casual pirating, not mass commercial, buying it

    >>> on every street corner Chinese pirating.

    >>> You're really and truly stupid aren't you?

    >>> Frank

    >>

    >>

    >> Take your foot out of your mouth Frankie, you didn't wash your feet in

    >> over a week. I was referring to casual pirating, numbnuts.

    >>

    > Take your pointy head out of your arse for a few seconds and...well go

    > ahead and leave it there. That's where it's always been and that's where

    > it belongs.

    > Frank

     

    Translation: Adam has just refuted Frank big time and all Frank has left

    are insults.

     

    Alias

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    Frank wrote:

    > MICHAEL wrote:

    >

    >

    >>> I agree.

    >>>

    >>> DRM cracked again and again and again...... on and on it goes.

    >>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=585

    >>> http://www.betanews.com/article/Windows_Media_DRM_Cracked_Again/1184602691

    >>>

    >>> http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070715-confirmed-microsofts-windows-media-drm-cracked-again.html

    >>>

    >>

    >>

    >> We all know that Vista has been free for the pirates before it was

    >> even released to the general public.

    >>

    >> The latest DRM crack also works in Vista.

    >>

    >>

    >> -Michael

    >

    > What does that have to do with activation and casual pirating?

    > Frank

     

    Real pirates aren't affected, of course. Most people buy Vista with a

    computer. Most people who buy retail or generic OEM are honest. There is

    no logical reason for activation every time you flash the BIOS or update

    a driver. NONE. The music industry is listening and removing DRM from

    music downloads. Why can't MS hear the music?

     

    Alias

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    Frank wrote:

    > MICHAEL wrote:

    >

    >

    >>> I agree.

    >>>

    >>> DRM cracked again and again and again...... on and on it goes.

    >>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=585

    >>> http://www.betanews.com/article/Windows_Media_DRM_Cracked_Again/1184602691

    >>>

    >>> http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070715-confirmed-microsofts-windows-media-drm-cracked-again.html

    >>>

    >>

    >>

    >> We all know that Vista has been free for the pirates before it was

    >> even released to the general public.

    >>

    >> The latest DRM crack also works in Vista.

    >>

    >>

    >> -Michael

    >

    > What does that have to do with activation and casual pirating?

    > Frank

     

    Real pirates aren't affected, of course. Most people buy Vista with a

    computer. Most people who buy retail or generic OEM are honest. There is

    no logical reason for activation every time you flash the BIOS or update

    a driver. NONE. The music industry is listening and removing DRM from

    music downloads. Why can't MS hear the music?

     

    Alias

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    * Frank:

    > MICHAEL wrote:

    >

    >

    >>> I agree.

    >>>

    >>> DRM cracked again and again and again...... on and on it goes.

    >>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=585

    >>> http://www.betanews.com/article/Windows_Media_DRM_Cracked_Again/1184602691

    >>> http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070715-confirmed-microsofts-windows-media-drm-cracked-again.html

    >>

    >> We all know that Vista has been free for the pirates before it was

    >> even released to the general public.

    >>

    >> The latest DRM crack also works in Vista.

    >

    > What does that have to do with activation and casual pirating?

    > Frank

     

    Whether it's DRM or WGA or whatever anti-piracy measures are

    concocted, they have been and will continue to be defeated, and

    the pirates will continue to get what they want for free. The ones

    being most inconvenienced by all this, are the *paying* customers-

    *not* pirates. As George Ou said in the first link I posted, DRM's death

    will be because of ROI (Return on investment). The tremendous resources

    going into something that doesn't work well and customers don't like,

    is wasted resources.

     

    It's similar to the WGA crap. Time, talent, and money have been

    wasted on this. Lots of extra code inserted into the OS. The additional

    support costs, too. Many customers pissed off about it. If Microsoft's

    aim is at "casual piracy"- how much does that really "cost" them?

    How much of a performance hit is Vista taking because of these

    anti-piracy schemes? It will come down to ROI, and sooner or later

    Microsoft will have to ease up. If the escalation continues, Microsoft will

    continue to lose the battle, and the OS will suffer even more.

    They will lose customers and/or have customers that put off upgrading

    a lot longer. ROI.

     

     

    -Michael

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    * Frank:

    > MICHAEL wrote:

    >

    >

    >>> I agree.

    >>>

    >>> DRM cracked again and again and again...... on and on it goes.

    >>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=585

    >>> http://www.betanews.com/article/Windows_Media_DRM_Cracked_Again/1184602691

    >>> http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070715-confirmed-microsofts-windows-media-drm-cracked-again.html

    >>

    >> We all know that Vista has been free for the pirates before it was

    >> even released to the general public.

    >>

    >> The latest DRM crack also works in Vista.

    >

    > What does that have to do with activation and casual pirating?

    > Frank

     

    Whether it's DRM or WGA or whatever anti-piracy measures are

    concocted, they have been and will continue to be defeated, and

    the pirates will continue to get what they want for free. The ones

    being most inconvenienced by all this, are the *paying* customers-

    *not* pirates. As George Ou said in the first link I posted, DRM's death

    will be because of ROI (Return on investment). The tremendous resources

    going into something that doesn't work well and customers don't like,

    is wasted resources.

     

    It's similar to the WGA crap. Time, talent, and money have been

    wasted on this. Lots of extra code inserted into the OS. The additional

    support costs, too. Many customers pissed off about it. If Microsoft's

    aim is at "casual piracy"- how much does that really "cost" them?

    How much of a performance hit is Vista taking because of these

    anti-piracy schemes? It will come down to ROI, and sooner or later

    Microsoft will have to ease up. If the escalation continues, Microsoft will

    continue to lose the battle, and the OS will suffer even more.

    They will lose customers and/or have customers that put off upgrading

    a lot longer. ROI.

     

     

    -Michael

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    * Charlie Tame:

    > here@home.again wrote:

    >> "Alias" blurted out...

    >>> here@home.again wrote:

    >>>> "Frank" pointed out...

    >>>>> Legitimate users will become "casual pirates" when they "loan" their

    >>>>> copy of Windows OS to a family member, friend or acquaintance.

    >>>>> This obviously happens rather frequently and is the main target of

    >>>>> activation and easiest to deter.

    >>>>>

    >>>> Too true! They just never bother to read the EULA, ever. Windows has

    >>>> always been licensed, not sold, since early DOS, and we only buy

    >>>> permission to use it on one computer. How many offices installed the same

    >>>> copy of '95 or '98 on over twenty systems? How many times has someone

    >>>> with a CD-R bootlegged a dozen 'free' copies for their closest friends?

    >>>> It may sound penny-ante but it's really nickle 'n diming. I'll explain

    >>>> that to any of you children out there too young to get it.

    >>> With your logic, Microsoft, Adobe, etc. would have gone out of business

    >>> years ago. Reality check: they made billions because most people --

    >>> maybe not the people you know -- are honest.

    >>>

    >>> Alias

    >>

    >> Who said anything about going out of business? For those "billions" they

    >> made, they lost, what, 2 or 3 hundred thousand? -)

    > So by your own admission it's a small problem for which the vast

    > majority of honest people have to suffer you calling them thrieves and

    > liars...

     

    Over 90% of Microsoft OS sales are OEM. The vast majority

    of those sales are to the big guys. Most users get the OS as

    part of a new computer. So, it seems most of Microsoft's

    anti-piracy schemes are aimed at those who buy the OS retail.

    Out of that small percentage- how many of those folks are

    thieves? All these resources aimed at a very small percentage

    of users, and these schemes have done absolutely nothing to

    stop the real pirates..... nothing. ROI.

     

    Over a year ago, I stopped at this First Union Bank (now Wachovia).

    To enter the bank you had to go through one door, that door had

    to shut, then a red light changed to green on another door before

    you could enter the bank. It was the same when leaving the bank.

    I asked the teller about it and she said it was a trial thing, and they

    may implement it at other bank branches. Went back to this bank

    a few months later and those security doors were gone. I asked

    about it, and was told that the customers hated it. The teller said

    some customers told her it made them uncomfortable and when

    the bank got busy, the doors couldn't keep up with the traffic.

    The teller said the trial was stopped. Too many complaints and wasn't

    cost efficient. Sound familiar?

     

     

    -Michael

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    * Charlie Tame:

    > here@home.again wrote:

    >> "Alias" blurted out...

    >>> here@home.again wrote:

    >>>> "Frank" pointed out...

    >>>>> Legitimate users will become "casual pirates" when they "loan" their

    >>>>> copy of Windows OS to a family member, friend or acquaintance.

    >>>>> This obviously happens rather frequently and is the main target of

    >>>>> activation and easiest to deter.

    >>>>>

    >>>> Too true! They just never bother to read the EULA, ever. Windows has

    >>>> always been licensed, not sold, since early DOS, and we only buy

    >>>> permission to use it on one computer. How many offices installed the same

    >>>> copy of '95 or '98 on over twenty systems? How many times has someone

    >>>> with a CD-R bootlegged a dozen 'free' copies for their closest friends?

    >>>> It may sound penny-ante but it's really nickle 'n diming. I'll explain

    >>>> that to any of you children out there too young to get it.

    >>> With your logic, Microsoft, Adobe, etc. would have gone out of business

    >>> years ago. Reality check: they made billions because most people --

    >>> maybe not the people you know -- are honest.

    >>>

    >>> Alias

    >>

    >> Who said anything about going out of business? For those "billions" they

    >> made, they lost, what, 2 or 3 hundred thousand? -)

    > So by your own admission it's a small problem for which the vast

    > majority of honest people have to suffer you calling them thrieves and

    > liars...

     

    Over 90% of Microsoft OS sales are OEM. The vast majority

    of those sales are to the big guys. Most users get the OS as

    part of a new computer. So, it seems most of Microsoft's

    anti-piracy schemes are aimed at those who buy the OS retail.

    Out of that small percentage- how many of those folks are

    thieves? All these resources aimed at a very small percentage

    of users, and these schemes have done absolutely nothing to

    stop the real pirates..... nothing. ROI.

     

    Over a year ago, I stopped at this First Union Bank (now Wachovia).

    To enter the bank you had to go through one door, that door had

    to shut, then a red light changed to green on another door before

    you could enter the bank. It was the same when leaving the bank.

    I asked the teller about it and she said it was a trial thing, and they

    may implement it at other bank branches. Went back to this bank

    a few months later and those security doors were gone. I asked

    about it, and was told that the customers hated it. The teller said

    some customers told her it made them uncomfortable and when

    the bank got busy, the doors couldn't keep up with the traffic.

    The teller said the trial was stopped. Too many complaints and wasn't

    cost efficient. Sound familiar?

     

     

    -Michael

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    MICHAEL wrote:

    > * Frank:

    >> MICHAEL wrote:

    >>

    >>

    >>>> I agree.

    >>>>

    >>>> DRM cracked again and again and again...... on and on it goes.

    >>>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=585

    >>>> http://www.betanews.com/article/Windows_Media_DRM_Cracked_Again/1184602691

    >>>> http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070715-confirmed-microsofts-windows-media-drm-cracked-again.html

    >>> We all know that Vista has been free for the pirates before it was

    >>> even released to the general public.

    >>>

    >>> The latest DRM crack also works in Vista.

    >> What does that have to do with activation and casual pirating?

    >> Frank

    >

    > Whether it's DRM or WGA or whatever anti-piracy measures are

    > concocted, they have been and will continue to be defeated, and

    > the pirates will continue to get what they want for free. The ones

    > being most inconvenienced by all this, are the *paying* customers-

    > *not* pirates. As George Ou said in the first link I posted, DRM's death

    > will be because of ROI (Return on investment). The tremendous resources

    > going into something that doesn't work well and customers don't like,

    > is wasted resources.

    >

    > It's similar to the WGA crap. Time, talent, and money have been

    > wasted on this. Lots of extra code inserted into the OS. The additional

    > support costs, too. Many customers pissed off about it. If Microsoft's

    > aim is at "casual piracy"- how much does that really "cost" them?

    > How much of a performance hit is Vista taking because of these

    > anti-piracy schemes? It will come down to ROI, and sooner or later

    > Microsoft will have to ease up. If the escalation continues, Microsoft will

    > continue to lose the battle, and the OS will suffer even more.

    > They will lose customers and/or have customers that put off upgrading

    > a lot longer. ROI.

    >

    >

    > -Michael

     

    And many will and are going to Open Source. I just found out about

    another friend of mine who nuked Windows XP and went to Ubuntu. He's a

    computer tech and, after seeing what Beryl and Ubuntu can do, asked

    himself "Why did I wait so long?"

     

    Alias

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    MICHAEL wrote:

    > * Frank:

    >> MICHAEL wrote:

    >>

    >>

    >>>> I agree.

    >>>>

    >>>> DRM cracked again and again and again...... on and on it goes.

    >>>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=585

    >>>> http://www.betanews.com/article/Windows_Media_DRM_Cracked_Again/1184602691

    >>>> http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070715-confirmed-microsofts-windows-media-drm-cracked-again.html

    >>> We all know that Vista has been free for the pirates before it was

    >>> even released to the general public.

    >>>

    >>> The latest DRM crack also works in Vista.

    >> What does that have to do with activation and casual pirating?

    >> Frank

    >

    > Whether it's DRM or WGA or whatever anti-piracy measures are

    > concocted, they have been and will continue to be defeated, and

    > the pirates will continue to get what they want for free. The ones

    > being most inconvenienced by all this, are the *paying* customers-

    > *not* pirates. As George Ou said in the first link I posted, DRM's death

    > will be because of ROI (Return on investment). The tremendous resources

    > going into something that doesn't work well and customers don't like,

    > is wasted resources.

    >

    > It's similar to the WGA crap. Time, talent, and money have been

    > wasted on this. Lots of extra code inserted into the OS. The additional

    > support costs, too. Many customers pissed off about it. If Microsoft's

    > aim is at "casual piracy"- how much does that really "cost" them?

    > How much of a performance hit is Vista taking because of these

    > anti-piracy schemes? It will come down to ROI, and sooner or later

    > Microsoft will have to ease up. If the escalation continues, Microsoft will

    > continue to lose the battle, and the OS will suffer even more.

    > They will lose customers and/or have customers that put off upgrading

    > a lot longer. ROI.

    >

    >

    > -Michael

     

    And many will and are going to Open Source. I just found out about

    another friend of mine who nuked Windows XP and went to Ubuntu. He's a

    computer tech and, after seeing what Beryl and Ubuntu can do, asked

    himself "Why did I wait so long?"

     

    Alias

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    MICHAEL wrote:

    > * Charlie Tame:

    >> here@home.again wrote:

    >>> "Alias" blurted out...

    >>>> here@home.again wrote:

    >>>>> "Frank" pointed out...

    >>>>>> Legitimate users will become "casual pirates" when they "loan" their

    >>>>>> copy of Windows OS to a family member, friend or acquaintance.

    >>>>>> This obviously happens rather frequently and is the main target of

    >>>>>> activation and easiest to deter.

    >>>>>>

    >>>>> Too true! They just never bother to read the EULA, ever. Windows has

    >>>>> always been licensed, not sold, since early DOS, and we only buy

    >>>>> permission to use it on one computer. How many offices installed the same

    >>>>> copy of '95 or '98 on over twenty systems? How many times has someone

    >>>>> with a CD-R bootlegged a dozen 'free' copies for their closest friends?

    >>>>> It may sound penny-ante but it's really nickle 'n diming. I'll explain

    >>>>> that to any of you children out there too young to get it.

    >>>> With your logic, Microsoft, Adobe, etc. would have gone out of business

    >>>> years ago. Reality check: they made billions because most people --

    >>>> maybe not the people you know -- are honest.

    >>>>

    >>>> Alias

    >>> Who said anything about going out of business? For those "billions" they

    >>> made, they lost, what, 2 or 3 hundred thousand? -)

    >

    >> So by your own admission it's a small problem for which the vast

    >> majority of honest people have to suffer you calling them thrieves and

    >> liars...

    >

    > Over 90% of Microsoft OS sales are OEM. The vast majority

    > of those sales are to the big guys. Most users get the OS as

    > part of a new computer. So, it seems most of Microsoft's

    > anti-piracy schemes are aimed at those who buy the OS retail.

    > Out of that small percentage- how many of those folks are

    > thieves? All these resources aimed at a very small percentage

    > of users, and these schemes have done absolutely nothing to

    > stop the real pirates..... nothing. ROI.

    >

    > Over a year ago, I stopped at this First Union Bank (now Wachovia).

    > To enter the bank you had to go through one door, that door had

    > to shut, then a red light changed to green on another door before

    > you could enter the bank. It was the same when leaving the bank.

    > I asked the teller about it and she said it was a trial thing, and they

    > may implement it at other bank branches. Went back to this bank

    > a few months later and those security doors were gone. I asked

    > about it, and was told that the customers hated it. The teller said

    > some customers told her it made them uncomfortable and when

    > the bank got busy, the doors couldn't keep up with the traffic.

    > The teller said the trial was stopped. Too many complaints and wasn't

    > cost efficient. Sound familiar?

    >

    >

    > -Michael

     

    When you consider that all a thief needs to do to by pass the doors

    trial was to steal a car and ram it through the window of the bank.

     

    Alias

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    MICHAEL wrote:

    > * Charlie Tame:

    >> here@home.again wrote:

    >>> "Alias" blurted out...

    >>>> here@home.again wrote:

    >>>>> "Frank" pointed out...

    >>>>>> Legitimate users will become "casual pirates" when they "loan" their

    >>>>>> copy of Windows OS to a family member, friend or acquaintance.

    >>>>>> This obviously happens rather frequently and is the main target of

    >>>>>> activation and easiest to deter.

    >>>>>>

    >>>>> Too true! They just never bother to read the EULA, ever. Windows has

    >>>>> always been licensed, not sold, since early DOS, and we only buy

    >>>>> permission to use it on one computer. How many offices installed the same

    >>>>> copy of '95 or '98 on over twenty systems? How many times has someone

    >>>>> with a CD-R bootlegged a dozen 'free' copies for their closest friends?

    >>>>> It may sound penny-ante but it's really nickle 'n diming. I'll explain

    >>>>> that to any of you children out there too young to get it.

    >>>> With your logic, Microsoft, Adobe, etc. would have gone out of business

    >>>> years ago. Reality check: they made billions because most people --

    >>>> maybe not the people you know -- are honest.

    >>>>

    >>>> Alias

    >>> Who said anything about going out of business? For those "billions" they

    >>> made, they lost, what, 2 or 3 hundred thousand? -)

    >

    >> So by your own admission it's a small problem for which the vast

    >> majority of honest people have to suffer you calling them thrieves and

    >> liars...

    >

    > Over 90% of Microsoft OS sales are OEM. The vast majority

    > of those sales are to the big guys. Most users get the OS as

    > part of a new computer. So, it seems most of Microsoft's

    > anti-piracy schemes are aimed at those who buy the OS retail.

    > Out of that small percentage- how many of those folks are

    > thieves? All these resources aimed at a very small percentage

    > of users, and these schemes have done absolutely nothing to

    > stop the real pirates..... nothing. ROI.

    >

    > Over a year ago, I stopped at this First Union Bank (now Wachovia).

    > To enter the bank you had to go through one door, that door had

    > to shut, then a red light changed to green on another door before

    > you could enter the bank. It was the same when leaving the bank.

    > I asked the teller about it and she said it was a trial thing, and they

    > may implement it at other bank branches. Went back to this bank

    > a few months later and those security doors were gone. I asked

    > about it, and was told that the customers hated it. The teller said

    > some customers told her it made them uncomfortable and when

    > the bank got busy, the doors couldn't keep up with the traffic.

    > The teller said the trial was stopped. Too many complaints and wasn't

    > cost efficient. Sound familiar?

    >

    >

    > -Michael

     

    When you consider that all a thief needs to do to by pass the doors

    trial was to steal a car and ram it through the window of the bank.

     

    Alias

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    * Alias:

    > MICHAEL wrote:

    >> * Charlie Tame:

    >>> here@home.again wrote:

    >>>> "Alias" blurted out...

    >>>>> here@home.again wrote:

    >>>>>> "Frank" pointed out...

    >>>>>>> Legitimate users will become "casual pirates" when they "loan" their

    >>>>>>> copy of Windows OS to a family member, friend or acquaintance.

    >>>>>>> This obviously happens rather frequently and is the main target of

    >>>>>>> activation and easiest to deter.

    >>>>>>>

    >>>>>> Too true! They just never bother to read the EULA, ever. Windows has

    >>>>>> always been licensed, not sold, since early DOS, and we only buy

    >>>>>> permission to use it on one computer. How many offices installed the same

    >>>>>> copy of '95 or '98 on over twenty systems? How many times has someone

    >>>>>> with a CD-R bootlegged a dozen 'free' copies for their closest friends?

    >>>>>> It may sound penny-ante but it's really nickle 'n diming. I'll explain

    >>>>>> that to any of you children out there too young to get it.

    >>>>> With your logic, Microsoft, Adobe, etc. would have gone out of business

    >>>>> years ago. Reality check: they made billions because most people --

    >>>>> maybe not the people you know -- are honest.

    >>>>>

    >>>>> Alias

    >>>> Who said anything about going out of business? For those "billions" they

    >>>> made, they lost, what, 2 or 3 hundred thousand? -)

    >>> So by your own admission it's a small problem for which the vast

    >>> majority of honest people have to suffer you calling them thrieves and

    >>> liars...

    >> Over 90% of Microsoft OS sales are OEM. The vast majority

    >> of those sales are to the big guys. Most users get the OS as

    >> part of a new computer. So, it seems most of Microsoft's

    >> anti-piracy schemes are aimed at those who buy the OS retail.

    >> Out of that small percentage- how many of those folks are

    >> thieves? All these resources aimed at a very small percentage

    >> of users, and these schemes have done absolutely nothing to

    >> stop the real pirates..... nothing. ROI.

    >>

    >> Over a year ago, I stopped at this First Union Bank (now Wachovia).

    >> To enter the bank you had to go through one door, that door had

    >> to shut, then a red light changed to green on another door before

    >> you could enter the bank. It was the same when leaving the bank.

    >> I asked the teller about it and she said it was a trial thing, and they

    >> may implement it at other bank branches. Went back to this bank

    >> a few months later and those security doors were gone. I asked

    >> about it, and was told that the customers hated it. The teller said

    >> some customers told her it made them uncomfortable and when

    >> the bank got busy, the doors couldn't keep up with the traffic.

    >> The teller said the trial was stopped. Too many complaints and wasn't

    >> cost efficient. Sound familiar?

    >

    > When you consider that all a thief needs to do to by pass the doors

    > trial was to steal a car and ram it through the window of the bank.

     

    I had mentioned the bank and those doors to a neighbor awhile

    back, and he had said that he saw a news report about a bank robber

    being trapped in similar doors, he shot out the glass almost injuring

    a passerby.... he supposedly escaped. I never saw that news report.

    But, my point is that there may come a time when it's just too much

    protection/security/anti-theft whatever- it's not worth it.

     

     

    -Michael

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    * Alias:

    > MICHAEL wrote:

    >> * Charlie Tame:

    >>> here@home.again wrote:

    >>>> "Alias" blurted out...

    >>>>> here@home.again wrote:

    >>>>>> "Frank" pointed out...

    >>>>>>> Legitimate users will become "casual pirates" when they "loan" their

    >>>>>>> copy of Windows OS to a family member, friend or acquaintance.

    >>>>>>> This obviously happens rather frequently and is the main target of

    >>>>>>> activation and easiest to deter.

    >>>>>>>

    >>>>>> Too true! They just never bother to read the EULA, ever. Windows has

    >>>>>> always been licensed, not sold, since early DOS, and we only buy

    >>>>>> permission to use it on one computer. How many offices installed the same

    >>>>>> copy of '95 or '98 on over twenty systems? How many times has someone

    >>>>>> with a CD-R bootlegged a dozen 'free' copies for their closest friends?

    >>>>>> It may sound penny-ante but it's really nickle 'n diming. I'll explain

    >>>>>> that to any of you children out there too young to get it.

    >>>>> With your logic, Microsoft, Adobe, etc. would have gone out of business

    >>>>> years ago. Reality check: they made billions because most people --

    >>>>> maybe not the people you know -- are honest.

    >>>>>

    >>>>> Alias

    >>>> Who said anything about going out of business? For those "billions" they

    >>>> made, they lost, what, 2 or 3 hundred thousand? -)

    >>> So by your own admission it's a small problem for which the vast

    >>> majority of honest people have to suffer you calling them thrieves and

    >>> liars...

    >> Over 90% of Microsoft OS sales are OEM. The vast majority

    >> of those sales are to the big guys. Most users get the OS as

    >> part of a new computer. So, it seems most of Microsoft's

    >> anti-piracy schemes are aimed at those who buy the OS retail.

    >> Out of that small percentage- how many of those folks are

    >> thieves? All these resources aimed at a very small percentage

    >> of users, and these schemes have done absolutely nothing to

    >> stop the real pirates..... nothing. ROI.

    >>

    >> Over a year ago, I stopped at this First Union Bank (now Wachovia).

    >> To enter the bank you had to go through one door, that door had

    >> to shut, then a red light changed to green on another door before

    >> you could enter the bank. It was the same when leaving the bank.

    >> I asked the teller about it and she said it was a trial thing, and they

    >> may implement it at other bank branches. Went back to this bank

    >> a few months later and those security doors were gone. I asked

    >> about it, and was told that the customers hated it. The teller said

    >> some customers told her it made them uncomfortable and when

    >> the bank got busy, the doors couldn't keep up with the traffic.

    >> The teller said the trial was stopped. Too many complaints and wasn't

    >> cost efficient. Sound familiar?

    >

    > When you consider that all a thief needs to do to by pass the doors

    > trial was to steal a car and ram it through the window of the bank.

     

    I had mentioned the bank and those doors to a neighbor awhile

    back, and he had said that he saw a news report about a bank robber

    being trapped in similar doors, he shot out the glass almost injuring

    a passerby.... he supposedly escaped. I never saw that news report.

    But, my point is that there may come a time when it's just too much

    protection/security/anti-theft whatever- it's not worth it.

     

     

    -Michael

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