Guest amarok Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 Hi guys, I have just installed vista ultimative 64 danish version (on my earlier pc I had home premium 32)... I have 4 blocks a 1 gb pc6600 ddr II ram but the system only shows 2.75 gb out of the 4 gb installed. My mainboard is a new asus p5b-v with totally updated bios and all of my ram has been checked and they work. The software program "everest" (shows all system info) shows all the ram ...but no other software does it... photoshop cs3 only shows 2.75 gb ram available so....... is there some setting in vista 64 that need to be changed or is there an error in the operating system? - please help.. Best regards Mike Quote
Guest Andrew McLaren Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 (edited) "amarok" wrote ... > I have 4 blocks a 1 gb pc6600 ddr II ram but the system > only shows 2.75 gb out of the 4 gb installed. > My mainboard is a new asus p5b-v with totally updated bios > and all of my ram has been checked and they work. > The software program "everest" (shows all system info) > shows all the ram ...but no other software does it... > photoshop cs3 only shows 2.75 gb ram available so....... > is there some setting in vista 64 that need to be changed or is there an > error in the operating system? - I'm afraid this sounds normal, and "by design". Even if you have 4GB of physical memory, the operating system can only address between 2.8 and 3.2GB of RAM. The remaining 1G or so is reserved for hardware addresses. If you are very lucky, your motherboard may be able to re-map the unused physical RAM to higher address pages. Bu this is not yet a common feature in consumer motherboards. There's a good explanation here, with a few links to extra technical details: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000811.html Basically it's not a problem in Windows, or the your RAM, or even the hardware, as such. All those hardware addresses needed to go somewhere! The moral is, don't bother buying 4GB of memory, you probably won't be able to use it. If your mother board does support page remapping you may be able to recover some memory by fiddling in the BIOS. Sorry for the bad news, -- Andrew McLaren amclar (at) optusnet dot com dot au Edited February 9, 2014 by AWS Quote
Guest Michael Solomon Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 (edited) "Andrew McLaren" <andrew@fakeaddress.com> wrote in message news:12E3ACC2-F7C8-457F-8BD0-30810C725FBB@microsoft.com... > "amarok" wrote ... >> I have 4 blocks a 1 gb pc6600 ddr II ram but the system >> only shows 2.75 gb out of the 4 gb installed. >> My mainboard is a new asus p5b-v with totally updated bios >> and all of my ram has been checked and they work. >> The software program "everest" (shows all system info) >> shows all the ram ...but no other software does it... >> photoshop cs3 only shows 2.75 gb ram available so....... >> is there some setting in vista 64 that need to be changed or is there an >> error in the operating system? - > > I'm afraid this sounds normal, and "by design". Even if you have 4GB of > physical memory, the operating system can only address between 2.8 and > 3.2GB of RAM. > > The remaining 1G or so is reserved for hardware addresses. If you are very > lucky, your motherboard may be able to re-map the unused physical RAM to > higher address pages. Bu this is not yet a common feature in consumer > motherboards. > > There's a good explanation here, with a few links to extra technical > details: > http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000811.html > > Basically it's not a problem in Windows, or the your RAM, or even the > hardware, as such. All those hardware addresses needed to go somewhere! > The moral is, don't bother buying 4GB of memory, you probably won't be > able to use it. If your mother board does support page remapping you may > be able to recover some memory by fiddling in the BIOS. > > Sorry for the bad news, > > -- > Andrew McLaren > amclar (at) optusnet dot com dot au > Andrew, he's using Vista 64-bit not 32-bit. -- Michael Solomon Backup is a PC user's best friend DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/ Edited February 9, 2014 by AWS Quote
Guest Michael Solomon Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 (edited) "amarok" wrote in message news:eB8MrAYyHHA.1484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > Hi guys, > > I have just installed vista ultimative 64 danish version > (on my earlier pc I had home premium 32)... > > I have 4 blocks a 1 gb pc6600 ddr II ram but the system > only shows 2.75 gb out of the 4 gb installed. > My mainboard is a new asus p5b-v with totally updated bios > and all of my ram has been checked and they work. > The software program "everest" (shows all system info) > shows all the ram ...but no other software does it... > photoshop cs3 only shows 2.75 gb ram available so....... > is there some setting in vista 64 that need to be changed or is there an > error in the operating system? - > please help.. > > Best regards > > Mike > > Mike, check out the following Knowledge Base Article: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929605/ -- Michael Solomon Backup is a PC user's best friend DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/ Edited February 9, 2014 by AWS Quote
Guest Cal Bear '66 Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 (edited) But he is running Vista X64 My Vista x64 Business recognizes all of my 4GB of memory. -- I Bleed Blue and Gold GO BEARS! "Andrew McLaren" <andrew@fakeaddress.com> wrote in message news:12E3ACC2-F7C8-457F-8BD0-30810C725FBB@microsoft.com... > "amarok" wrote ... >> I have 4 blocks a 1 gb pc6600 ddr II ram but the system >> only shows 2.75 gb out of the 4 gb installed. >> My mainboard is a new asus p5b-v with totally updated bios >> and all of my ram has been checked and they work. >> The software program "everest" (shows all system info) >> shows all the ram ...but no other software does it... >> photoshop cs3 only shows 2.75 gb ram available so....... >> is there some setting in vista 64 that need to be changed or is there an >> error in the operating system? - > > I'm afraid this sounds normal, and "by design". Even if you have 4GB of > physical memory, the operating system can only address between 2.8 and 3.2GB > of RAM. > > The remaining 1G or so is reserved for hardware addresses. If you are very > lucky, your motherboard may be able to re-map the unused physical RAM to > higher address pages. Bu this is not yet a common feature in consumer > motherboards. > > There's a good explanation here, with a few links to extra technical details: > http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000811.html > > Basically it's not a problem in Windows, or the your RAM, or even the > hardware, as such. All those hardware addresses needed to go somewhere! The > moral is, don't bother buying 4GB of memory, you probably won't be able to use > it. If your mother board does support page remapping you may be able to > recover some memory by fiddling in the BIOS. > > Sorry for the bad news, > > -- > Andrew McLaren > amclar (at) optusnet dot com dot au > Edited February 9, 2014 by AWS Quote
FPCH Admin AWS Posted July 18, 2007 FPCH Admin Posted July 18, 2007 (edited) "amarok" wrote ... > I have 4 blocks a 1 gb pc6600 ddr II ram but the system > only shows 2.75 gb out of the 4 gb installed. > My mainboard is a new asus p5b-v with totally updated bios > and all of my ram has been checked and they work. > The software program "everest" (shows all system info) > shows all the ram ...but no other software does it... > photoshop cs3 only shows 2.75 gb ram available so....... > is there some setting in vista 64 that need to be changed or is there an > error in the operating system? - I'm afraid this sounds normal, and "by design". Even if you have 4GB of physical memory, the operating system can only address between 2.8 and 3.2GB of RAM. The remaining 1G or so is reserved for hardware addresses. If you are very lucky, your motherboard may be able to re-map the unused physical RAM to higher address pages. Bu this is not yet a common feature in consumer motherboards. There's a good explanation here, with a few links to extra technical details: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000811.html Basically it's not a problem in Windows, or the your RAM, or even the hardware, as such. All those hardware addresses needed to go somewhere! The moral is, don't bother buying 4GB of memory, you probably won't be able to use it. If your mother board does support page remapping you may be able to recover some memory by fiddling in the BIOS. Sorry for the bad news, -- Andrew McLaren amclar (at) optusnet dot com dot au Yes this a problem with Vista 32. It is not a problem with Vista 64 which the op has installed. I have just installed vista ultimative 64 danish version There is no setting that has to be changed. I run Vista Ultimate 64 with 4 gigs and it all shows fine. It could be your motherboard doesn't support 4 gigs. However I doubt that is the case since it shows more than 2 gigs. I haven't seen a motherboard yet whith a 3gig limit. Usually it's in multiples of 2. Edited February 9, 2014 by AWS Quote Off Topic Forum - Unlike the Rest
Guest Andrew McLaren Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 "Michael Solomon" <user@#notme.com> wrote ... >> > Andrew, he's using Vista 64-bit not 32-bit. Hi Michael, Correct - and, the "bit-ness" of the Operating System doess not matter. Both 32 bit and 64 bit versions of Windows can be affected by this problem. The only advantage you get from 64 bit Windows (in this particular regard) is that the OS can address Terabytes of memory. So with 64 bit Windows there is the possibility for the hardware to re-map pages of memory from the reserved hardware range (2.75GB up to 4GB), into the address space somewhere above 4GB - which is stil visible to the OS. That way, you get to utilise all your physical RAM, even though there's a big hole in the middle of the virtual address space. To "see" a full 4GB of RAM requires a careful alignment of Operating System, CPU, chipset, BIOS, and physical memory. Whether the OS is 32 bit or 64 bit, is not the only variable. If (for example) the BIOS is blocking access to the sub-4GB range, you can't automagically make it available to the operating system, just by using 64-bit memory addressing (leaving aside jiggery-pokery like PAE). If the motherboard was fully populated with 8GB of RAM, then 64 Windows could certainly see more than 4GB - maybe up to 6.75GB, in Mike's case. So it's definitely beneficial to be running 64 bit Windows. Mike's best shot would be to carefully study the Asus motherboard manual (http://support.asus.com/download/download.aspx?SLanguage=en-us&model=P5B-V) to see what options might exist for re-mapping memory pages from the 2.75GB to 4GB range. Let me know if you think I'm wrong - happy to discuss further! Cheers, -- Andrew McLaren amclar (at) optusnet dot com dot au Quote
Guest Andrew McLaren Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 "Cal Bear '66" <xxx@xxx.org> wrote in message news:C9479309-9EEB-437B-9774-DCEF3F580AAA@microsoft.com... > But he is running Vista X64 > > My Vista x64 Business recognizes all of my 4GB of memory. Hi Cal Bear! Yep. You are lucky :-) As per my separate reply to Mike Solomon, 64 bit Windows is a necessary, but not sufficient, pre-condition to seeing 4GB of RAM. If you have the right version of Windows, and the right CPU, and the right chipset, and the right BIOS, and 4+GB of physical RAM, then you can indeed see 4GB of RAM! Unfortunately for Mike (the OP, not Mike Solomon) it sounds like he is missing one of these crucial factors. Thus, he sees somewhat less than the 4GB. Hopefully it can be adjusted by configuring the BIOS on his mother board. Best regards, Andrew Quote
Guest Michael Solomon Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 "Andrew McLaren" <andrew@fakeaddress.com> wrote in message news:06085CFC-CCC9-412B-8451-210F894F95A9@microsoft.com... > "Michael Solomon" <user@#notme.com> wrote ... >>> >> Andrew, he's using Vista 64-bit not 32-bit. > > > Hi Michael, > > Correct - and, the "bit-ness" of the Operating System doess not matter. > Both 32 bit and 64 bit versions of Windows can be affected by this > problem. > > The only advantage you get from 64 bit Windows (in this particular regard) > is that the OS can address Terabytes of memory. So with 64 bit Windows > there is the possibility for the hardware to re-map pages of memory from > the reserved hardware range (2.75GB up to 4GB), into the address space > somewhere above 4GB - which is stil visible to the OS. That way, you get > to utilise all your physical RAM, even though there's a big hole in the > middle of the virtual address space. > > To "see" a full 4GB of RAM requires a careful alignment of Operating > System, CPU, chipset, BIOS, and physical memory. Whether the OS is 32 bit > or 64 bit, is not the only variable. If (for example) the BIOS is blocking > access to the sub-4GB range, you can't automagically make it available to > the operating system, just by using 64-bit memory addressing (leaving > aside jiggery-pokery like PAE). > > If the motherboard was fully populated with 8GB of RAM, then 64 Windows > could certainly see more than 4GB - maybe up to 6.75GB, in Mike's case. So > it's definitely beneficial to be running 64 bit Windows. > > Mike's best shot would be to carefully study the Asus motherboard manual > (http://support.asus.com/download/download.aspx?SLanguage=en-us&model=P5B-V) > to see what options might exist for re-mapping memory pages from the > 2.75GB to 4GB range. > > Let me know if you think I'm wrong - happy to discuss further! > > Cheers, > -- > Andrew McLaren > amclar (at) optusnet dot com dot au > No, I don't think you're wrong. However, I got the impression from your initial response you were applying the "limitation" of the 32-bit OS to the 64-bit. As already has been pointed out in this thread, some people never have to do anything to enable the ability to see all 4GB. It's true, in some cases, the user might have to enable memory remapping in the BIOS or various other tweaks to get it done but the impression I got from your original response was that you were essentially telling the OP to forget it when, in fact, he had options open to him before giving up. -- Michael Solomon Backup is a PC user's best friend DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/ Quote
Guest Andrew McLaren Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 "Michael Solomon" <user@#notme.com> wrote ... > various other tweaks to get it done but the impression I got from your > original response was that you were essentially telling the OP to forget > it when, in fact, he had options open to him before giving up. Fair comment ... I suppose I did sound prematurely pessimistic, in my first response! It looks like the remap function *is* supported in the P5B-V's BIOS, and was fixed to work correctly in BIOS version 1005, released last month: From http://support.asus.com/download/download.aspx?SLanguage=en-us&model=P5B-V <quote> Version 1005 2007/06/07 update Description P5B-V BIOS 1005 "Support new CPUs. Please refer to our website at: http://support.asus.com.tw/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx Fixed plug 4GB memory with remap function enabled will cause fail to install Windows Vista 64 bit" File Size 789.51 (KBytes) </quote> Just an extra wrinkle in the pudding - OP Mike noticed the memory problem, while he was running Photoshop CS3. I haven't upgraded CS2 yet, but I think CS3 is still a purely 32-bit set of applications. If so, Photoshop is running as a 32-bit process in the WoW64 layer not as a native 64-bit process. Hence, it is by no means automatic that Photoshop will take advantage of the 64 bit memory address range, even if it is running 64 bit Windows. The WoW64 layer can make a full 4GB of virtual address space available to 32 bit applications (which is good!). But this only happens if the application is linked with the IMAGE_FILE_LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE flag in the EXE header. Until lately, very few 32 bit apps had this (SQL Server the only one I know). Possibly the new Photoshop CS3 has this. An "ordianry" 32 bit application still only sees 2Gb of user mode memory space, even when running on the WoW64 on 64 bit Windows. Of course, it would be nice for Windows itself to exploit the full 4GB of physical memory. But it may not benefit Photoshop much as an individual application, if Photoshop can still only use the 2GB of user mode, 32-bit memory. Anyway I haven't really thought through all the implications yet, for OP Mike's problem. I just thought I'd through this into the mix. Still thinking .... Cheers, -- Andrew McLaren amclar (at) optusnet dot com dot au Quote
Guest Andrew McLaren Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 Hi Mike, Following up the interveaning discussion, I have a few questions for you: - Which BIOS version do you have installed (I know you said the latest, which is that?). - Look at the System Properties in Windows (go to Start Menu, Computer, right-click and choose Properties). How much memory is reported, there? That is: how much memory is Windows itself reporting? - you said "photoshop cs3 only shows 2.75 gb ram available", where are you seeing that? In Performance Preferences, or System Info? In Photoshop if you go to Help, System Info, you should see some likes like: Built-in memory: 3053 MB Free memory: 823 MB Memory available to Photoshop: 2786 MB Memory used by Photoshop: 55 % What is reported here by Photoshop on your system? (I'm working from Photoshop CS2 so may be slightly different layout). BTW you've probably already seen this, but I found a lot of interesting info about Photoshop CS3's memory mamangement in this Abobe KB article: http://www.adobe.com/go/kb401088 Cheers, -- Andrew McLaren amclar (at) optusnet dot com dot au Quote
Guest Andrew McLaren Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 "BSchwarz" <BSchwarz.2txvpa@news.home.local> wrote ... > There is no setting that has to be changed. I run Vista Ultimate 64 > with 4 gigs and it all shows fine. As per my separate replies in this thread ... in an ideal world, and with recent hardware, you are correct: 64-bit Windows will automagically see all 4GB or more of RAM. However there are many reasons why even 64 bit Windows will not see all 4GB of memory, even if a machine has 4GB of RAM physically present on the motherboard. You can read this Intel paper, to find out about some of the technical issues involved. There are many other useful references on the web as well: http://dlsvr01.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/4GB_Rev1.pdf > It could be your motherboard doesn't support 4 gigs. However I doubt > that is the case since it shows more than 2 gigs. I haven't seen a > motherboard yet whith a 3gig limit. Usually it's in multiples of 2. As above, the problem is nothing to do with how much RAM is physically inserted into the machine - 2GB, 4GB, 8GB or more. To see 4GB requires a co-ordinated effort of Operating System, CPU, chipset and BIOS. If any one of these doesn't co-operate, you won't seee 4GB, even with 8GB physically inserted. Sorry to be a pedantic git :-) but there's a lot of confusion around this topic. Vi ses, -- Andrew McLaren amclar (at) optusnet dot com dot au Quote
Guest Cal Bear '66 Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 Thank you for the explanations in this thread. Wow! I do feel lucky! I had to buy this PC (HP AMD 64 X2) off the shelf from Best Buy last August in an emergency (left the old one on when I went out, without the AC on, and it was smoking when I came home). Both Vista Ultimate x86 and Vista Business x64 are performing GREAT with no problems at all. Vista feels much, much more responsive, reliable and smoother than XP was on this machine. -- I Bleed Blue and Gold GO BEARS! "Andrew McLaren" <andrew@fakeaddress.com> wrote in message news:6029E05B-06D3-4F5D-AF51-58329A5ACD93@microsoft.com... > "Cal Bear '66" <xxx@xxx.org> wrote in message > news:C9479309-9EEB-437B-9774-DCEF3F580AAA@microsoft.com... >> But he is running Vista X64 >> >> My Vista x64 Business recognizes all of my 4GB of memory. > > > Hi Cal Bear! > > Yep. You are lucky :-) As per my separate reply to Mike Solomon, 64 bit > Windows is a necessary, but not sufficient, pre-condition to seeing 4GB of > RAM. If you have the right version of Windows, and the right CPU, and the > right chipset, and the right BIOS, and 4+GB of physical RAM, then you can > indeed see 4GB of RAM! > > Unfortunately for Mike (the OP, not Mike Solomon) it sounds like he is missing > one of these crucial factors. Thus, he sees somewhat less than the 4GB. > Hopefully it can be adjusted by configuring the BIOS on his mother board. > > Best regards, > Andrew > > Quote
Guest amarok Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 Re: update THANKS ANDREW! Thanks a lot Andrew... I did have the 1005 biosversion (only 2 months old) - my asusupdate software said I had the latest version, but the link you provided showed otherwise.... I downloaded the new 1102 version from june... and voila!!! I now have 3.93 GB ram showing...(and working) problem solved...but only with your help :-) (If you were a woman I would kiss you) *lool* Best regards Mike "Andrew McLaren" <andrew@fakeaddress.com> wrote in message news:692E086B-CD4E-401C-8131-119154D218CA@microsoft.com... > "Michael Solomon" <user@#notme.com> wrote ... >> various other tweaks to get it done but the impression I got from your >> original response was that you were essentially telling the OP to forget >> it when, in fact, he had options open to him before giving up. > > Fair comment ... I suppose I did sound prematurely pessimistic, in my > first response! > > It looks like the remap function *is* supported in the P5B-V's BIOS, and > was fixed to work correctly in BIOS version 1005, released last month: > > From > http://support.asus.com/download/download.aspx?SLanguage=en-us&model=P5B-V > <quote> > Version 1005 2007/06/07 update > > Description P5B-V BIOS 1005 > "Support new CPUs. Please refer to our website at: > http://support.asus.com.tw/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx > Fixed plug 4GB memory with remap function enabled will cause fail to > install Windows Vista 64 bit" > > File Size 789.51 (KBytes) > > </quote> > > Just an extra wrinkle in the pudding - OP Mike noticed the memory problem, > while he was running Photoshop CS3. I haven't upgraded CS2 yet, but I > think CS3 is still a purely 32-bit set of applications. If so, Photoshop > is running as a 32-bit process in the WoW64 layer not as a native 64-bit > process. Hence, it is by no means automatic that Photoshop will take > advantage of the 64 bit memory address range, even if it is running 64 bit > Windows. > > The WoW64 layer can make a full 4GB of virtual address space available to > 32 bit applications (which is good!). But this only happens if the > application is linked with the IMAGE_FILE_LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE flag in the > EXE header. Until lately, very few 32 bit apps had this (SQL Server the > only one I know). Possibly the new Photoshop CS3 has this. An "ordianry" > 32 bit application still only sees 2Gb of user mode memory space, even > when running on the WoW64 on 64 bit Windows. > > Of course, it would be nice for Windows itself to exploit the full 4GB of > physical memory. But it may not benefit Photoshop much as an individual > application, if Photoshop can still only use the 2GB of user mode, 32-bit > memory. > > Anyway I haven't really thought through all the implications yet, for OP > Mike's problem. I just thought I'd through this into the mix. Still > thinking ... > > Cheers, > -- > Andrew McLaren > amclar (at) optusnet dot com dot au > > Quote
Guest Andrew McLaren Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 (edited) Re: update THANKS ANDREW! "amarok" wrote ... > I downloaded the new 1102 version from june... > and voila!!! I now have 3.93 GB ram showing...(and working) > problem solved...but only with your help :-) > (If you were a woman I would kiss you) *lool* Outstanding! If you were a woman, I'd let you kiss me :-)) That's a great result, thanks for letting us know. Have fun with your Photoshop CS3 (I'm still saving my pennies to upgrade) -- Andrew McLaren amclar (at) optusnet dot com dot au Edited February 9, 2014 by AWS Quote
Recommended Posts