Snit wrote:

> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

> 47f92078$0$22824$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/6/08 12:11 PM:

>

>> Hadron wrote:

>>> caver1 <caver1@inthemud.org> writes:

>>>

>>>> Hadron wrote:

>>>>> caver1 <caver1@inthemud.org> writes:

>>>>>

>>>>>> Snit wrote:

>>>>>>> "Rick" <none@nomail.com> stated in post

>>>>>>> SbOdnaFSgI5DRWXanZ2dnUVZ_ojinZ2d@supernews.com on 4/6/08 7:06 AM:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> On Sun, 06 Apr 2008 15:29:39 +0200, Hadron wrote:

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> spike1@freenet.co.uk writes:

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Hadron <hadronquark@googlemail.com> did eloquently scribble:

>>>>>>>>>>> No I'm not. Whatever gave you that idea? I am saying you do not build

>>>>>>>>>>> an entire distro around some l33t hyck.

>>>>>>>>>> And how do you STOP him from doing that if he so wishes if you can't

>>>>>>>>>> ban the modification of GPL software?

>>>>>>>>> When will you get it through your thick head that we KNOW we can not

>>>>>>>>> ban

>>>>>>>>> this stuff. This is WHY its all such a mess. I also agree that

>>>>>>>>> "banning"

>>>>>>>>> per se is not a good thing. However, and I know you will struggle with

>>>>>>>>> this, it doesn't make it a good thing.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> It's like talking to a brick wall. It's not all about what we may or

>>>>>>>>> may

>>>>>>>>> not do. It's about whether it's a good idea or not for the general good

>>>>>>>>> of Linux and its advancement.

>>>>>>>> When will you get it through your thick skull? ... killing distors won't

>>>>>>>> guarantee any more resources for any other distro?

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> But if distro developers were to work together they could combine their

>>>>>>> strengths... such as the strength of PCLOS's organization and visual

>>>>>>> design

>>>>>>> with Ubuntu's less-fractured UI. Right now there is no distro that

>>>>>>> offers

>>>>>>> both...

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>> Not everyone wants both.

>>>>>> caver1

>>>>> Uh oh. Another crazy who doesn't actually realise what's being

>>>>> suggested.

>>>>>

>>>>> Firstly we dont necessrily care about "everyone" - only the GREAT

>>>>> majority. Secondly I am hard pressed to think of ANYONE who would not

>>>>> want a better organized distro with a less fractured UI.

>>>>

>>>> Thats where you are wrong. Our society was set up to protect the

>>>> minority from the majority.

>>> No it wasn't. It was set up to serve the needs of the

>>> majority. Minorities have rights of course. And if minorities want to

>>> have a broken distro good luck to them - there's plenty to choose from.

>>>

>>>> Just because YOU want it one way does not make it right.

>>> Wrong. I want what is best for Linux and majority. And a stable,

>>> consistent distro is indeed better no matter how crazy your views on

>>> minorities are.

>>>

>>>> Just because the majority want it one way doesn't mean all Have to do

>>>> it that way.

>>> See? You are confused. No where did I say the minority can not have it

>>> another way. But lets aim for the majority.

>>>

>>>> What is fartured about Ubuntu?

>>> No idea. But "fartured" is apt for some distros.

>>

>> I'll give you that one I'm not sure about that one either. :0

>> But being in reply to your "fractured" I think it was easy enough.

>> Or is that so you can just side step the issue?

>> I think you need to back to school. Who were the powers of the time?

>> the monarchy and religion. The US constitution was set up to protect

>> against each of those. True some thought their ways were better than

>> others hence they should rule. That is why changes were made.

>> And don't say well if they worked within the framework of the

>> Constitution not made another. Software is not law and should never be.

>> But at the same time it gives everyone the right to try the same thing

>> over and over if they want as long as they don't steal from, harm, or

>> stopping anyone else from the same rights.

>> If Hadron wants to make his own Har, har, Hardly hardon distro thats

>> fine with everyone here. Just don't think that anyone will use it.

>> caver1

>

> I think it is a shame that the best answer to how a user can get a distro

> from a group that understands both organization, look, and consistency is

> for the user to become an expert in each area *and* an expert in how to put

> a pro-level Linux distro together and then roll their own.

>

> The development efforts of Linux are fractured - so while there are experts

> in each area (or at least people who show they understand each area well)

> they are not all working together. This will change: eventually a distro

> will pull all of those talents together... Ubuntu seems to be trying (though

> they have big holes in their skill set currently).

>

>

 

 

As I said it is still improving. Tell us where they are lacking.

caver1

chrisv wrote:

>> Hadron puked:

>>> We are talking broken fragmented and

>>> buggy as hell distros - even the main ones. You know - the reasons

>>> Linux only has about 0.7% of the desktop share.

>

> Funny, I hadn't noticed that PCLOS is"broken fragmented and buggy as

> hell", "true Linux advocate" Hardon Quack.

>

> You're just a snotty POS, Quack. Go suck Billy's wang.

>

 

 

 

So far I have tried PcLinux 2008 KDE. don.t like it. too many steps. But

then again Hardon you still haven't said which one you like.

caver1

Hadron wrote:

> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> writes:

>

>> "Hadron" <hadronquark@googlemail.com> stated in post

>> ftb22k$e25$4@registered.motzarella.org on 4/6/08 10:42 AM:

>>

>>> caver1 <caver1@inthemud.org> writes:

>>>

>>>> Snit wrote:

>>>>> "Rick" <none@nomail.com> stated in post

>>>>> SbOdnaFSgI5DRWXanZ2dnUVZ_ojinZ2d@supernews.com on 4/6/08 7:06 AM:

>>>>>

>>>>>> On Sun, 06 Apr 2008 15:29:39 +0200, Hadron wrote:

>>>>>>

>>>>>>> spike1@freenet.co.uk writes:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Hadron <hadronquark@googlemail.com> did eloquently scribble:

>>>>>>>>> No I'm not. Whatever gave you that idea? I am saying you do not build

>>>>>>>>> an entire distro around some l33t hyck.

>>>>>>>> And how do you STOP him from doing that if he so wishes if you can't

>>>>>>>> ban the modification of GPL software?

>>>>>>> When will you get it through your thick head that we KNOW we can not ban

>>>>>>> this stuff. This is WHY its all such a mess. I also agree that "banning"

>>>>>>> per se is not a good thing. However, and I know you will struggle with

>>>>>>> this, it doesn't make it a good thing.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> It's like talking to a brick wall. It's not all about what we may or may

>>>>>>> not do. It's about whether it's a good idea or not for the general good

>>>>>>> of Linux and its advancement.

>>>>>> When will you get it through your thick skull? ... killing distors won't

>>>>>> guarantee any more resources for any other distro?

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>> But if distro developers were to work together they could combine their

>>>>> strengths... such as the strength of PCLOS's organization and visual design

>>>>> with Ubuntu's less-fractured UI. Right now there is no distro that offers

>>>>> both...

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Not everyone wants both.

>>>> caver1

>>> Uh oh. Another crazy who doesn't actually realise what's being

>>> suggested.

>>>

>>> Firstly we dont necessrily care about "everyone" - only the GREAT

>>> majority. Secondly I am hard pressed to think of ANYONE who would not

>>> want a better organized distro with a less fractured UI.

>> COLA Linux Advocates. :)

>

> The mind boggles as to "caver1"s mindset where he thinks it better to

> keep a broken, fractured distro because a minority "might" want

> it. Huh?!?!?!? I mean, I have heard some stupid things in my life but

> this kind of mental thought process leaves me wondering just who these

> people are.

 

 

As I stated before Hardon. What's youyr favorite?

caver1

Snit wrote:

> "Hadron" <hadronquark@googlemail.com> stated in post

> ftbdeo$2ro$2@registered.motzarella.org on 4/6/08 1:56 PM:

>

>> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> writes:

>>

>>> "Hadron" <hadronquark@googlemail.com> stated in post

>>> ftb22k$e25$4@registered.motzarella.org on 4/6/08 10:42 AM:

>>>

>>>> caver1 <caver1@inthemud.org> writes:

>>>>

>>>>> Snit wrote:

>>>>>> "Rick" <none@nomail.com> stated in post

>>>>>> SbOdnaFSgI5DRWXanZ2dnUVZ_ojinZ2d@supernews.com on 4/6/08 7:06 AM:

>>>>>>

>>>>>>> On Sun, 06 Apr 2008 15:29:39 +0200, Hadron wrote:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> spike1@freenet.co.uk writes:

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> Hadron <hadronquark@googlemail.com> did eloquently scribble:

>>>>>>>>>> No I'm not. Whatever gave you that idea? I am saying you do not build

>>>>>>>>>> an entire distro around some l33t hyck.

>>>>>>>>> And how do you STOP him from doing that if he so wishes if you can't

>>>>>>>>> ban the modification of GPL software?

>>>>>>>> When will you get it through your thick head that we KNOW we can not ban

>>>>>>>> this stuff. This is WHY its all such a mess. I also agree that "banning"

>>>>>>>> per se is not a good thing. However, and I know you will struggle with

>>>>>>>> this, it doesn't make it a good thing.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> It's like talking to a brick wall. It's not all about what we may or may

>>>>>>>> not do. It's about whether it's a good idea or not for the general good

>>>>>>>> of Linux and its advancement.

>>>>>>> When will you get it through your thick skull? ... killing distors won't

>>>>>>> guarantee any more resources for any other distro?

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>> But if distro developers were to work together they could combine their

>>>>>> strengths... such as the strength of PCLOS's organization and visual

>>>>>> design

>>>>>> with Ubuntu's less-fractured UI. Right now there is no distro that offers

>>>>>> both...

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Not everyone wants both.

>>>>> caver1

>>>> Uh oh. Another crazy who doesn't actually realise what's being

>>>> suggested.

>>>>

>>>> Firstly we dont necessrily care about "everyone" - only the GREAT

>>>> majority. Secondly I am hard pressed to think of ANYONE who would not

>>>> want a better organized distro with a less fractured UI.

>>> COLA Linux Advocates. :)

>> The mind boggles as to "caver1"s mindset where he thinks it better to

>> keep a broken, fractured distro because a minority "might" want

>> it. Huh?!?!?!? I mean, I have heard some stupid things in my life but

>> this kind of mental thought process leaves me wondering just who these

>> people are.

>

> The debate is not even about *how* to organize... just *if* it is better to

> be organized in a distro, or have well done organization.

>

 

 

 

Okay Hardon tell me where Linux is Broken.

caver1

"caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

47f946a2$0$16662$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/6/08 2:54 PM:

> Snit wrote:

>> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

>> 47f92078$0$22824$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/6/08 12:11 PM:

>>

>>> Hadron wrote:

>>>> caver1 <caver1@inthemud.org> writes:

>>>>

>>>>> Hadron wrote:

>>>>>> caver1 <caver1@inthemud.org> writes:

>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Snit wrote:

>>>>>>>> "Rick" <none@nomail.com> stated in post

>>>>>>>> SbOdnaFSgI5DRWXanZ2dnUVZ_ojinZ2d@supernews.com on 4/6/08 7:06 AM:

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 06 Apr 2008 15:29:39 +0200, Hadron wrote:

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> spike1@freenet.co.uk writes:

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> Hadron <hadronquark@googlemail.com> did eloquently scribble:

>>>>>>>>>>>> No I'm not. Whatever gave you that idea? I am saying you do not

>>>>>>>>>>>> build

>>>>>>>>>>>> an entire distro around some l33t hyck.

>>>>>>>>>>> And how do you STOP him from doing that if he so wishes if you can't

>>>>>>>>>>> ban the modification of GPL software?

>>>>>>>>>> When will you get it through your thick head that we KNOW we can not

>>>>>>>>>> ban

>>>>>>>>>> this stuff. This is WHY its all such a mess. I also agree that

>>>>>>>>>> "banning"

>>>>>>>>>> per se is not a good thing. However, and I know you will struggle

>>>>>>>>>> with

>>>>>>>>>> this, it doesn't make it a good thing.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> It's like talking to a brick wall. It's not all about what we may or

>>>>>>>>>> may

>>>>>>>>>> not do. It's about whether it's a good idea or not for the general

>>>>>>>>>> good

>>>>>>>>>> of Linux and its advancement.

>>>>>>>>> When will you get it through your thick skull? ... killing distors

>>>>>>>>> won't

>>>>>>>>> guarantee any more resources for any other distro?

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> But if distro developers were to work together they could combine their

>>>>>>>> strengths... such as the strength of PCLOS's organization and visual

>>>>>>>> design

>>>>>>>> with Ubuntu's less-fractured UI. Right now there is no distro that

>>>>>>>> offers

>>>>>>>> both...

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Not everyone wants both.

>>>>>>> caver1

>>>>>> Uh oh. Another crazy who doesn't actually realise what's being

>>>>>> suggested.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Firstly we dont necessrily care about "everyone" - only the GREAT

>>>>>> majority. Secondly I am hard pressed to think of ANYONE who would not

>>>>>> want a better organized distro with a less fractured UI.

>>>>>

>>>>> Thats where you are wrong. Our society was set up to protect the

>>>>> minority from the majority.

>>>> No it wasn't. It was set up to serve the needs of the

>>>> majority. Minorities have rights of course. And if minorities want to

>>>> have a broken distro good luck to them - there's plenty to choose from.

>>>>

>>>>> Just because YOU want it one way does not make it right.

>>>> Wrong. I want what is best for Linux and majority. And a stable,

>>>> consistent distro is indeed better no matter how crazy your views on

>>>> minorities are.

>>>>

>>>>> Just because the majority want it one way doesn't mean all Have to do

>>>>> it that way.

>>>> See? You are confused. No where did I say the minority can not have it

>>>> another way. But lets aim for the majority.

>>>>

>>>>> What is fartured about Ubuntu?

>>>> No idea. But "fartured" is apt for some distros.

>>>

>>> I'll give you that one I'm not sure about that one either. :0

>>> But being in reply to your "fractured" I think it was easy enough.

>>> Or is that so you can just side step the issue?

>>> I think you need to back to school. Who were the powers of the time?

>>> the monarchy and religion. The US constitution was set up to protect

>>> against each of those. True some thought their ways were better than

>>> others hence they should rule. That is why changes were made.

>>> And don't say well if they worked within the framework of the

>>> Constitution not made another. Software is not law and should never be.

>>> But at the same time it gives everyone the right to try the same thing

>>> over and over if they want as long as they don't steal from, harm, or

>>> stopping anyone else from the same rights.

>>> If Hadron wants to make his own Har, har, Hardly hardon distro thats

>>> fine with everyone here. Just don't think that anyone will use it.

>>> caver1

>>

>> I think it is a shame that the best answer to how a user can get a distro

>> from a group that understands both organization, look, and consistency is

>> for the user to become an expert in each area *and* an expert in how to put

>> a pro-level Linux distro together and then roll their own.

>>

>> The development efforts of Linux are fractured - so while there are experts

>> in each area (or at least people who show they understand each area well)

>> they are not all working together. This will change: eventually a distro

>> will pull all of those talents together... Ubuntu seems to be trying (though

>> they have big holes in their skill set currently).

>>

>>

>

>

> As I said it is still improving. Tell us where they are lacking.

> caver1

 

From past posts:

 

PCLOS:

 

Poorly done menus

<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS-menu.pdf>

 

Poorly done dialogs:

<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.pdf>

 

Poorly done and Inconsistent dialogs:

<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS2.pdf>

 

Mouse pointers that do not do as they say:

<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.mov>

 

Even Ubuntu has its share of quirks - though it is clearly done much better:

 

<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/ubuntu-menu.pdf>

 

And the more recent one showing copy and paste oddities and weird text

behavior on selection:

 

<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/copy-paste.mov>

 

It is not like such examples are hard to find - or are not obvious. How

could anyone who has used Linux and either Windows or OS X not have such

things be apparent to them - especially someone who considers themselves

knowledgeable about computers?

 

 

--

God made me an atheist - who are you to question his authority?

"caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

47f9487a$0$16662$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/6/08 3:02 PM:

 

>>>>>> Not everyone wants both.

>>>>>> caver1

>>>>> Uh oh. Another crazy who doesn't actually realise what's being

>>>>> suggested.

>>>>>

>>>>> Firstly we dont necessrily care about "everyone" - only the GREAT

>>>>> majority. Secondly I am hard pressed to think of ANYONE who would not

>>>>> want a better organized distro with a less fractured UI.

>>>> COLA Linux Advocates. :)

>>> The mind boggles as to "caver1"s mindset where he thinks it better to

>>> keep a broken, fractured distro because a minority "might" want

>>> it. Huh?!?!?!? I mean, I have heard some stupid things in my life but

>>> this kind of mental thought process leaves me wondering just who these

>>> people are.

>>

>> The debate is not even about *how* to organize... just *if* it is better to

>> be organized in a distro, or have well done organization.

>

> Okay Hardon tell me where Linux is Broken.

> caver1

 

I would love to see your argument as to why organization, attractive looks,

and lack-of-fracturing in the UI would be a bad thing that you would not

want... just seems absurd to me.

 

--

I know how a jam jar feels...

.... full of jam!

Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> writes:

> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

> 47f9487a$0$16662$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/6/08 3:02 PM:

>

>

>>>>>>> Not everyone wants both.

>>>>>>> caver1

>>>>>> Uh oh. Another crazy who doesn't actually realise what's being

>>>>>> suggested.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Firstly we dont necessrily care about "everyone" - only the GREAT

>>>>>> majority. Secondly I am hard pressed to think of ANYONE who would not

>>>>>> want a better organized distro with a less fractured UI.

>>>>> COLA Linux Advocates. :)

>>>> The mind boggles as to "caver1"s mindset where he thinks it better to

>>>> keep a broken, fractured distro because a minority "might" want

>>>> it. Huh?!?!?!? I mean, I have heard some stupid things in my life but

>>>> this kind of mental thought process leaves me wondering just who these

>>>> people are.

>>>

>>> The debate is not even about *how* to organize... just *if* it is better to

>>> be organized in a distro, or have well done organization.

>>

>> Okay Hardon tell me where Linux is Broken.

>> caver1

>

> I would love to see your argument as to why organization, attractive looks,

> and lack-of-fracturing in the UI would be a bad thing that you would not

> want... just seems absurd to me.

 

He is absurd. He must be a nym for someone like wRonG.

 

He keeps asking me to "prove it" after I have just done so. Weird.

"Hadron" <hadronquark@googlemail.com> stated in post

ftc2fr$9cv$5@registered.motzarella.org on 4/6/08 7:55 PM:

> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> writes:

>

>> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

>> 47f9487a$0$16662$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/6/08 3:02 PM:

>>

>>

>>>>>>>> Not everyone wants both.

>>>>>>>> caver1

>>>>>>> Uh oh. Another crazy who doesn't actually realise what's being

>>>>>>> suggested.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Firstly we dont necessrily care about "everyone" - only the GREAT

>>>>>>> majority. Secondly I am hard pressed to think of ANYONE who would not

>>>>>>> want a better organized distro with a less fractured UI.

>>>>>> COLA Linux Advocates. :)

>>>>> The mind boggles as to "caver1"s mindset where he thinks it better to

>>>>> keep a broken, fractured distro because a minority "might" want

>>>>> it. Huh?!?!?!? I mean, I have heard some stupid things in my life but

>>>>> this kind of mental thought process leaves me wondering just who these

>>>>> people are.

>>>>

>>>> The debate is not even about *how* to organize... just *if* it is better to

>>>> be organized in a distro, or have well done organization.

>>>

>>> Okay Hardon tell me where Linux is Broken.

>>> caver1

>>

>> I would love to see your argument as to why organization, attractive looks,

>> and lack-of-fracturing in the UI would be a bad thing that you would not

>> want... just seems absurd to me.

>

> He is absurd. He must be a nym for someone like wRonG.

>

> He keeps asking me to "prove it" after I have just done so. Weird.

 

Prove it. :)

 

 

--

Dear Aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1123221217782777472

Snit wrote:

> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

> 47f946a2$0$16662$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/6/08 2:54 PM:

>

>> Snit wrote:

>>> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

>>> 47f92078$0$22824$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/6/08 12:11 PM:

>>>

>>>> Hadron wrote:

>>>>> caver1 <caver1@inthemud.org> writes:

>>>>>

>>>>>> Hadron wrote:

>>>>>>> caver1 <caver1@inthemud.org> writes:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Snit wrote:

>>>>>>>>> "Rick" <none@nomail.com> stated in post

>>>>>>>>> SbOdnaFSgI5DRWXanZ2dnUVZ_ojinZ2d@supernews.com on 4/6/08 7:06 AM:

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 06 Apr 2008 15:29:39 +0200, Hadron wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> spike1@freenet.co.uk writes:

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Hadron <hadronquark@googlemail.com> did eloquently scribble:

>>>>>>>>>>>>> No I'm not. Whatever gave you that idea? I am saying you do not

>>>>>>>>>>>>> build

>>>>>>>>>>>>> an entire distro around some l33t hyck.

>>>>>>>>>>>> And how do you STOP him from doing that if he so wishes if you can't

>>>>>>>>>>>> ban the modification of GPL software?

>>>>>>>>>>> When will you get it through your thick head that we KNOW we can not

>>>>>>>>>>> ban

>>>>>>>>>>> this stuff. This is WHY its all such a mess. I also agree that

>>>>>>>>>>> "banning"

>>>>>>>>>>> per se is not a good thing. However, and I know you will struggle

>>>>>>>>>>> with

>>>>>>>>>>> this, it doesn't make it a good thing.

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> It's like talking to a brick wall. It's not all about what we may or

>>>>>>>>>>> may

>>>>>>>>>>> not do. It's about whether it's a good idea or not for the general

>>>>>>>>>>> good

>>>>>>>>>>> of Linux and its advancement.

>>>>>>>>>> When will you get it through your thick skull? ... killing distors

>>>>>>>>>> won't

>>>>>>>>>> guarantee any more resources for any other distro?

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> But if distro developers were to work together they could combine their

>>>>>>>>> strengths... such as the strength of PCLOS's organization and visual

>>>>>>>>> design

>>>>>>>>> with Ubuntu's less-fractured UI. Right now there is no distro that

>>>>>>>>> offers

>>>>>>>>> both...

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Not everyone wants both.

>>>>>>>> caver1

>>>>>>> Uh oh. Another crazy who doesn't actually realise what's being

>>>>>>> suggested.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Firstly we dont necessrily care about "everyone" - only the GREAT

>>>>>>> majority. Secondly I am hard pressed to think of ANYONE who would not

>>>>>>> want a better organized distro with a less fractured UI.

>>>>>> Thats where you are wrong. Our society was set up to protect the

>>>>>> minority from the majority.

>>>>> No it wasn't. It was set up to serve the needs of the

>>>>> majority. Minorities have rights of course. And if minorities want to

>>>>> have a broken distro good luck to them - there's plenty to choose from.

>>>>>

>>>>>> Just because YOU want it one way does not make it right.

>>>>> Wrong. I want what is best for Linux and majority. And a stable,

>>>>> consistent distro is indeed better no matter how crazy your views on

>>>>> minorities are.

>>>>>

>>>>>> Just because the majority want it one way doesn't mean all Have to do

>>>>>> it that way.

>>>>> See? You are confused. No where did I say the minority can not have it

>>>>> another way. But lets aim for the majority.

>>>>>

>>>>>> What is fartured about Ubuntu?

>>>>> No idea. But "fartured" is apt for some distros.

>>>> I'll give you that one I'm not sure about that one either. :0

>>>> But being in reply to your "fractured" I think it was easy enough.

>>>> Or is that so you can just side step the issue?

>>>> I think you need to back to school. Who were the powers of the time?

>>>> the monarchy and religion. The US constitution was set up to protect

>>>> against each of those. True some thought their ways were better than

>>>> others hence they should rule. That is why changes were made.

>>>> And don't say well if they worked within the framework of the

>>>> Constitution not made another. Software is not law and should never be.

>>>> But at the same time it gives everyone the right to try the same thing

>>>> over and over if they want as long as they don't steal from, harm, or

>>>> stopping anyone else from the same rights.

>>>> If Hadron wants to make his own Har, har, Hardly hardon distro thats

>>>> fine with everyone here. Just don't think that anyone will use it.

>>>> caver1

>>> I think it is a shame that the best answer to how a user can get a distro

>>> from a group that understands both organization, look, and consistency is

>>> for the user to become an expert in each area *and* an expert in how to put

>>> a pro-level Linux distro together and then roll their own.

>>>

>>> The development efforts of Linux are fractured - so while there are experts

>>> in each area (or at least people who show they understand each area well)

>>> they are not all working together. This will change: eventually a distro

>>> will pull all of those talents together... Ubuntu seems to be trying (though

>>> they have big holes in their skill set currently).

>>>

>>>

>>

>> As I said it is still improving. Tell us where they are lacking.

>> caver1

>

> From past posts:

>

> PCLOS:

>

> Poorly done menus

> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS-menu.pdf>

>

> Poorly done dialogs:

> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.pdf>

>

> Poorly done and Inconsistent dialogs:

> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS2.pdf>

>

> Mouse pointers that do not do as they say:

> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.mov>

 

 

 

 

personally I don't like PcLinuxOS. But it is very popular.

 

 

> Even Ubuntu has its share of quirks - though it is clearly done much better:

>

> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/ubuntu-menu.pdf>

 

 

Okay you have to go to file to quit.

 

 

 

> And the more recent one showing copy and paste oddities and weird text

> behavior on selection:

>

> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/copy-paste.mov>

 

 

Load glipper problem solved.

> It is not like such examples are hard to find - or are not obvious. How

> could anyone who has used Linux and either Windows or OS X not have such

> things be apparent to them - especially someone who considers themselves

> knowledgeable about computers?

>

>

 

 

 

Okay now improve them. Instead of telling everyone how crappy it is.

caver1

Snit wrote:

> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

> 47f9487a$0$16662$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/6/08 3:02 PM:

>

>

>>>>>>> Not everyone wants both.

>>>>>>> caver1

>>>>>> Uh oh. Another crazy who doesn't actually realise what's being

>>>>>> suggested.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Firstly we dont necessrily care about "everyone" - only the GREAT

>>>>>> majority. Secondly I am hard pressed to think of ANYONE who would not

>>>>>> want a better organized distro with a less fractured UI.

>>>>> COLA Linux Advocates. :)

>>>> The mind boggles as to "caver1"s mindset where he thinks it better to

>>>> keep a broken, fractured distro because a minority "might" want

>>>> it. Huh?!?!?!? I mean, I have heard some stupid things in my life but

>>>> this kind of mental thought process leaves me wondering just who these

>>>> people are.

>>> The debate is not even about *how* to organize... just *if* it is better to

>>> be organized in a distro, or have well done organization.

>> Okay Hardon tell me where Linux is Broken.

>> caver1

>

> I would love to see your argument as to why organization, attractive looks,

> and lack-of-fracturing in the UI would be a bad thing that you would not

> want... just seems absurd to me.

>

 

 

There are several of the Linux distros that have very good organization.

Attractive looks? That's in the eye of the beholder. Personally I think

that Mint is very attractive. Then again when I am Word processing I am

just looking to get it done.

Yes there are problems but they are improving at a rapid pace.

So if you have problems with many of the distros pick one or a dozen and

improve them instead of constantly trying to smear the whole Linux

community because you don't like some of the distros.

yes there are more distros then I will even want to try. But Its their

right to try if they want to.

caver1

Hadron wrote:

> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> writes:

>

>> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

>> 47f9487a$0$16662$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/6/08 3:02 PM:

>>

>>

>>>>>>>> Not everyone wants both.

>>>>>>>> caver1

>>>>>>> Uh oh. Another crazy who doesn't actually realise what's being

>>>>>>> suggested.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Firstly we dont necessrily care about "everyone" - only the GREAT

>>>>>>> majority. Secondly I am hard pressed to think of ANYONE who would not

>>>>>>> want a better organized distro with a less fractured UI.

>>>>>> COLA Linux Advocates. :)

>>>>> The mind boggles as to "caver1"s mindset where he thinks it better to

>>>>> keep a broken, fractured distro because a minority "might" want

>>>>> it. Huh?!?!?!? I mean, I have heard some stupid things in my life but

>>>>> this kind of mental thought process leaves me wondering just who these

>>>>> people are.

>>>> The debate is not even about *how* to organize... just *if* it is better to

>>>> be organized in a distro, or have well done organization.

>>> Okay Hardon tell me where Linux is Broken.

>>> caver1

>> I would love to see your argument as to why organization, attractive looks,

>> and lack-of-fracturing in the UI would be a bad thing that you would not

>> want... just seems absurd to me.

>

> He is absurd. He must be a nym for someone like wRonG.

>

> He keeps asking me to "prove it" after I have just done so. Weird.

 

 

No you have only prove that you want Linux to be in your flavor nothing

else.

When you call me a liar I also say prove it and your come back is "I

already did" or "What are you talking about"

Most of your rants belong in COLA and should stay there.

caver1

"caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

47fa195d$0$16691$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 5:53 AM:

> Snit wrote:

>> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

>> 47f9487a$0$16662$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/6/08 3:02 PM:

>>

>>

>>>>>>>> Not everyone wants both.

>>>>>>>> caver1

>>>>>>> Uh oh. Another crazy who doesn't actually realise what's being

>>>>>>> suggested.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Firstly we dont necessrily care about "everyone" - only the GREAT

>>>>>>> majority. Secondly I am hard pressed to think of ANYONE who would not

>>>>>>> want a better organized distro with a less fractured UI.

>>>>>> COLA Linux Advocates. :)

>>>>> The mind boggles as to "caver1"s mindset where he thinks it better to

>>>>> keep a broken, fractured distro because a minority "might" want

>>>>> it. Huh?!?!?!? I mean, I have heard some stupid things in my life but

>>>>> this kind of mental thought process leaves me wondering just who these

>>>>> people are.

>>>> The debate is not even about *how* to organize... just *if* it is better to

>>>> be organized in a distro, or have well done organization.

>>> Okay Hardon tell me where Linux is Broken.

>>> caver1

>>

>> I would love to see your argument as to why organization, attractive looks,

>> and lack-of-fracturing in the UI would be a bad thing that you would not

>> want... just seems absurd to me.

>>

>

>

> There are several of the Linux distros that have very good organization.

> Attractive looks? That's in the eye of the beholder. Personally I think

> that Mint is very attractive. Then again when I am Word processing I am

> just looking to get it done.

> Yes there are problems but they are improving at a rapid pace.

> So if you have problems with many of the distros pick one or a dozen and

> improve them instead of constantly trying to smear the whole Linux

> community because you don't like some of the distros.

> yes there are more distros then I will even want to try. But Its their

> right to try if they want to.

> caver1

>

You are moving goal posts. Before you stated that not everyone wants both

(a decent look and good organization)... now you are saying that it is in

the eye of the beholder (which I agree with - to some extent).

 

Then you jump back to the idea that if I want to have a distro with common

sense needs: reasoned organization, consistency, a decent look, etc., I

should do the distro dance and when that fails make my own or just improve

on others.

 

Sounds like you agree with me that, as is, Linux is not really ready for the

general desktop.

 

 

--

I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is to try to please

everyone. -- Bill Cosby

"caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

47fa177e$0$16692$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 5:45 AM:

>>> As I said it is still improving. Tell us where they are lacking.

>>> caver1

>>

>> From past posts:

>>

>> PCLOS:

>>

>> Poorly done menus

>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS-menu.pdf>

>>

>> Poorly done dialogs:

>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.pdf>

>>

>> Poorly done and Inconsistent dialogs:

>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS2.pdf>

>>

>> Mouse pointers that do not do as they say:

>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.mov>

>

> personally I don't like PcLinuxOS. But it is very popular.

 

Lovely but irrelevant.

>

>> Even Ubuntu has its share of quirks - though it is clearly done much better:

>>

>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/ubuntu-menu.pdf>

>

> Okay you have to go to file to quit.

 

For some programs, sure... for others you have to go to File to Exit... and

for others you have to "close window" and for others you do not even go to

File... and what is the hot key to terminate... a bit of a mess, eh?

>> And the more recent one showing copy and paste oddities and weird text

>> behavior on selection:

>>

>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/copy-paste.mov>

>

> Load glipper problem solved.

 

So it is not ready as is. And what is "glibber"? I am not familiar with it

>> It is not like such examples are hard to find - or are not obvious. How

>> could anyone who has used Linux and either Windows or OS X not have such

>> things be apparent to them - especially someone who considers themselves

>> knowledgeable about computers?

 

 

 

--

Never stand between a dog and the hydrant. - John Peers

Snit wrote:

> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

> 47fa195d$0$16691$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 5:53 AM:

>

>> Snit wrote:

>>> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

>>> 47f9487a$0$16662$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/6/08 3:02 PM:

>>>

>>>

>>>>>>>>> Not everyone wants both.

>>>>>>>>> caver1

>>>>>>>> Uh oh. Another crazy who doesn't actually realise what's being

>>>>>>>> suggested.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Firstly we dont necessrily care about "everyone" - only the GREAT

>>>>>>>> majority. Secondly I am hard pressed to think of ANYONE who would not

>>>>>>>> want a better organized distro with a less fractured UI.

>>>>>>> COLA Linux Advocates. :)

>>>>>> The mind boggles as to "caver1"s mindset where he thinks it better to

>>>>>> keep a broken, fractured distro because a minority "might" want

>>>>>> it. Huh?!?!?!? I mean, I have heard some stupid things in my life but

>>>>>> this kind of mental thought process leaves me wondering just who these

>>>>>> people are.

>>>>> The debate is not even about *how* to organize... just *if* it is better to

>>>>> be organized in a distro, or have well done organization.

>>>> Okay Hardon tell me where Linux is Broken.

>>>> caver1

>>> I would love to see your argument as to why organization, attractive looks,

>>> and lack-of-fracturing in the UI would be a bad thing that you would not

>>> want... just seems absurd to me.

>>>

>>

>> There are several of the Linux distros that have very good organization.

>> Attractive looks? That's in the eye of the beholder. Personally I think

>> that Mint is very attractive. Then again when I am Word processing I am

>> just looking to get it done.

>> Yes there are problems but they are improving at a rapid pace.

>> So if you have problems with many of the distros pick one or a dozen and

>> improve them instead of constantly trying to smear the whole Linux

>> community because you don't like some of the distros.

>> yes there are more distros then I will even want to try. But Its their

>> right to try if they want to.

>> caver1

>>

> You are moving goal posts. Before you stated that not everyone wants both

> (a decent look and good organization)... now you are saying that it is in

> the eye of the beholder (which I agree with - to some extent).

>

> Then you jump back to the idea that if I want to have a distro with common

> sense needs: reasoned organization, consistency, a decent look, etc., I

> should do the distro dance and when that fails make my own or just improve

> on others.

>

> Sounds like you agree with me that, as is, Linux is not really ready for the

> general desktop.

>

>

 

 

My reply was to Hadron. Yes I believe that some of the distros are ready

for the desktop. That's why I am using Linux.

No goal posts moved. Not everyone wants the looks of Ubuntu. Some hate

it. I think Ubuntu has a good organization, some such as you think not.

And yes looks is in the eye of the beholder.

Your wants are different than someone else's. If you want to do the

dance that's your prerogative. I did not tell you to do it.

If you like whatever distro then use that one, help that one. But don't

complain about Linux in general because you don't like some of the

distros.

Or as you stated above- "I should do the distro dance and when that

fails make my own or just improve on others."

Yes help improve and quit complaining that someone else wants to build

their own to satisfy their needs. You don't have to use theirs so why

complain.

Not everyone agree on what common sense is and from the looks of it I

don't think you use much.

caver1

Snit wrote:

> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

> 47fa177e$0$16692$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 5:45 AM:

>

>>>> As I said it is still improving. Tell us where they are lacking.

>>>> caver1

>>> From past posts:

>>>

>>> PCLOS:

>>>

>>> Poorly done menus

>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS-menu.pdf>

>>>

>>> Poorly done dialogs:

>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.pdf>

>>>

>>> Poorly done and Inconsistent dialogs:

>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS2.pdf>

>>>

>>> Mouse pointers that do not do as they say:

>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.mov>

>> personally I don't like PcLinuxOS. But it is very popular.

>

> Lovely but irrelevant.

 

 

 

Why irrelevant? You brought that distro up in an Ubuntu group.

 

>>> Even Ubuntu has its share of quirks - though it is clearly done much better:

>>>

>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/ubuntu-menu.pdf>

>>

>> Okay you have to go to file to quit.

 

> For some programs, sure... for others you have to go to File to Exit... and

> for others you have to "close window" and for others you do not even go to

> File... and what is the hot key to terminate... a bit of a mess, eh?

>

>>> And the more recent one showing copy and paste oddities and weird text

>>> behavior on selection:

>>>

>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/copy-paste.mov>

>> Load glipper problem solved.

>

> So it is not ready as is. And what is "glibber"? I am not familiar with it

 

 

 

For one it is glipper not glibber. It is a clipboard. look it up. And

before you say why should I have to load a clipboard in Linux to use it.

The clipboard that comes with windows is not that great either so if you

want more functionality you have to load a third party clipboard of

which there are many. I personally like Clipmate.

 

>>> It is not like such examples are hard to find - or are not obvious. How

>>> could anyone who has used Linux and either Windows or OS X not have such

>>> things be apparent to them - especially someone who considers themselves

>>> knowledgeable about computers?

>

>

>

 

 

They are apparent. But how long are you going to cry to mama because you

stubbed your toe?

caver1

"caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

47fa3610$0$12568$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 7:56 AM:

> Snit wrote:

>> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

>> 47fa195d$0$16691$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 5:53 AM:

>>

>>> Snit wrote:

>>>> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

>>>> 47f9487a$0$16662$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/6/08 3:02 PM:

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Not everyone wants both.

>>>>>>>>>> caver1

>>>>>>>>> Uh oh. Another crazy who doesn't actually realise what's being

>>>>>>>>> suggested.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> Firstly we dont necessrily care about "everyone" - only the GREAT

>>>>>>>>> majority. Secondly I am hard pressed to think of ANYONE who would not

>>>>>>>>> want a better organized distro with a less fractured UI.

>>>>>>>> COLA Linux Advocates. :)

>>>>>>> The mind boggles as to "caver1"s mindset where he thinks it better to

>>>>>>> keep a broken, fractured distro because a minority "might" want

>>>>>>> it. Huh?!?!?!? I mean, I have heard some stupid things in my life but

>>>>>>> this kind of mental thought process leaves me wondering just who these

>>>>>>> people are.

>>>>>> The debate is not even about *how* to organize... just *if* it is better

>>>>>> to

>>>>>> be organized in a distro, or have well done organization.

>>>>> Okay Hardon tell me where Linux is Broken.

>>>>> caver1

>>>> I would love to see your argument as to why organization, attractive looks,

>>>> and lack-of-fracturing in the UI would be a bad thing that you would not

>>>> want... just seems absurd to me.

>>>>

>>>

>>> There are several of the Linux distros that have very good organization.

>>> Attractive looks? That's in the eye of the beholder. Personally I think

>>> that Mint is very attractive. Then again when I am Word processing I am

>>> just looking to get it done.

>>> Yes there are problems but they are improving at a rapid pace.

>>> So if you have problems with many of the distros pick one or a dozen and

>>> improve them instead of constantly trying to smear the whole Linux

>>> community because you don't like some of the distros.

>>> yes there are more distros then I will even want to try. But Its their

>>> right to try if they want to.

>>> caver1

>>>

>> You are moving goal posts. Before you stated that not everyone wants both

>> (a decent look and good organization)... now you are saying that it is in

>> the eye of the beholder (which I agree with - to some extent).

>>

>> Then you jump back to the idea that if I want to have a distro with common

>> sense needs: reasoned organization, consistency, a decent look, etc., I

>> should do the distro dance and when that fails make my own or just improve

>> on others.

>>

>> Sounds like you agree with me that, as is, Linux is not really ready for the

>> general desktop.

>>

>>

>

>

> My reply was to Hadron.

 

Correct.

> Yes I believe that some of the distros are ready

> for the desktop. That's why I am using Linux.

 

And yet you claim that in order to get Linux to have good looks,

consistency, well thought out organization, etc., I need to make my own

distro or alter one.

> No goal posts moved. Not everyone wants the looks of Ubuntu. Some hate

> it. I think Ubuntu has a good organization, some such as you think not.

> And yes looks is in the eye of the beholder.

> Your wants are different than someone else's. If you want to do the

> dance that's your prerogative. I did not tell you to do it.

> If you like whatever distro then use that one, help that one. But don't

> complain about Linux in general because you don't like some of the

> distros.

 

The problem is throughout the distros - not tied to one.

> Or as you stated above- "I should do the distro dance and when that

> fails make my own or just improve on others."

> Yes help improve and quit complaining that someone else wants to build

> their own to satisfy their needs. You don't have to use theirs so why

> complain.

> Not everyone agree on what common sense is and from the looks of it I

> don't think you use much.

 

 

It is common sense to want general consistency, well thought out

organization, and a decent look designed by a pro.

 

 

--

When thinking changes your mind, that's philosophy.

When God changes your mind, that's faith.

When facts change your mind, that's science.

caver1 wrote:

>Snit wrote:

 

*plonk*

"caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

47fa380c$0$12559$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 8:04 AM:

> Snit wrote:

>> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

>> 47fa177e$0$16692$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 5:45 AM:

>>

>>>>> As I said it is still improving. Tell us where they are lacking.

>>>>> caver1

>>>> From past posts:

>>>>

>>>> PCLOS:

>>>>

>>>> Poorly done menus

>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS-menu.pdf>

>>>>

>>>> Poorly done dialogs:

>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.pdf>

>>>>

>>>> Poorly done and Inconsistent dialogs:

>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS2.pdf>

>>>>

>>>> Mouse pointers that do not do as they say:

>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.mov>

>>> personally I don't like PcLinuxOS. But it is very popular.

>>

>> Lovely but irrelevant.

>

>

>

> Why irrelevant? You brought that distro up in an Ubuntu group.

 

You asked where *distros* were lacking... and I had been talking about PCLOS

and Ubuntu. I answered.

>>>> Even Ubuntu has its share of quirks - though it is clearly done much

>>>> better:

>>>>

>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/ubuntu-menu.pdf>

>>>

>>> Okay you have to go to file to quit.

>

>

>> For some programs, sure... for others you have to go to File to Exit... and

>> for others you have to "close window" and for others you do not even go to

>> File... and what is the hot key to terminate... a bit of a mess, eh?

>>

>>>> And the more recent one showing copy and paste oddities and weird text

>>>> behavior on selection:

>>>>

>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/copy-paste.mov>

>>> Load glipper problem solved.

>>

>> So it is not ready as is. And what is "glibber"? I am not familiar with it

>

>

>

> For one it is glipper not glibber.

 

My mistake. Sorry.

> It is a clipboard. look it up. And

> before you say why should I have to load a clipboard in Linux to use it.

> The clipboard that comes with windows is not that great either so if you

> want more functionality you have to load a third party clipboard of

> which there are many. I personally like Clipmate.

 

I have not even mentioned Windows and do not use it (generally - I do for

some purposes). But it does have a clipboard that works better than what I

show in the movie on Ubuntu!

>>>> It is not like such examples are hard to find - or are not obvious. How

>>>> could anyone who has used Linux and either Windows or OS X not have such

>>>> things be apparent to them - especially someone who considers themselves

>>>> knowledgeable about computers?

>>

>>

>>

>

>

> They are apparent. But how long are you going to cry to mama because you

> stubbed your toe?

> caver1

 

Er? Not sure what you are getting at.

 

--

"The music is not inside the piano." - Alan Kay

"chrisv" <chrisv@nospam.invalid> stated in post

fuekv35b52fleorkpqkg3eu3jj05ag4g3u@4ax.com on 4/7/08 8:20 AM:

> caver1 wrote:

>

>> Snit wrote:

>>> My reply was to Hadron.

>>>

>> Correct.

>>

>>> Yes I believe that some of the distros are ready for the desktop. That's why

>>> I am using Linux.

>>>

>> And yet you claim that in order to get Linux to have good looks, consistency,

>> well thought out organization, etc., I need to make my own distro or alter

>> one.

>>

>>> No goal posts moved. Not everyone wants the looks of Ubuntu. Some hate it. I

>>> think Ubuntu has a good organization, some such as you think not. And yes

>>> looks is in the eye of the beholder. Your wants are different than someone

>>> else's. If you want to do the dance that's your prerogative. I did not tell

>>> you to do it. If you like whatever distro then use that one, help that one.

>>> But don't complain about Linux in general because you don't like some of the

>>> distros.

>>>

>> The problem is throughout the distros - not tied to one.

>>

>>> Or as you stated above- "I should do the distro dance and when that fails

>>> make my own or just improve on others." Yes help improve and quit

>>> complaining that someone else wants to build their own to satisfy their

>>> needs. You don't have to use theirs so why complain. Not everyone agree on

>>> what common sense is and from the looks of it I don't think you use much.

>>>

>>

>> It is common sense to want general consistency, well thought out

>> organization, and a decent look designed by a pro.

>

> *plonk*

>

A shame you could not answer the questions and otherwise respond in a

reasoned way. Maybe later?

 

 

--

"If a million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

Snit wrote:

> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

> 47fa3610$0$12568$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 7:56 AM:

>

>> Snit wrote:

>>> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

>>> 47fa195d$0$16691$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 5:53 AM:

>>>

>>>> Snit wrote:

>>>>> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

>>>>> 47f9487a$0$16662$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/6/08 3:02 PM:

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> Not everyone wants both.

>>>>>>>>>>> caver1

>>>>>>>>>> Uh oh. Another crazy who doesn't actually realise what's being

>>>>>>>>>> suggested.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Firstly we dont necessrily care about "everyone" - only the GREAT

>>>>>>>>>> majority. Secondly I am hard pressed to think of ANYONE who would not

>>>>>>>>>> want a better organized distro with a less fractured UI.

>>>>>>>>> COLA Linux Advocates. :)

>>>>>>>> The mind boggles as to "caver1"s mindset where he thinks it better to

>>>>>>>> keep a broken, fractured distro because a minority "might" want

>>>>>>>> it. Huh?!?!?!? I mean, I have heard some stupid things in my life but

>>>>>>>> this kind of mental thought process leaves me wondering just who these

>>>>>>>> people are.

>>>>>>> The debate is not even about *how* to organize... just *if* it is better

>>>>>>> to

>>>>>>> be organized in a distro, or have well done organization.

>>>>>> Okay Hardon tell me where Linux is Broken.

>>>>>> caver1

>>>>> I would love to see your argument as to why organization, attractive looks,

>>>>> and lack-of-fracturing in the UI would be a bad thing that you would not

>>>>> want... just seems absurd to me.

>>>>>

>>>> There are several of the Linux distros that have very good organization.

>>>> Attractive looks? That's in the eye of the beholder. Personally I think

>>>> that Mint is very attractive. Then again when I am Word processing I am

>>>> just looking to get it done.

>>>> Yes there are problems but they are improving at a rapid pace.

>>>> So if you have problems with many of the distros pick one or a dozen and

>>>> improve them instead of constantly trying to smear the whole Linux

>>>> community because you don't like some of the distros.

>>>> yes there are more distros then I will even want to try. But Its their

>>>> right to try if they want to.

>>>> caver1

>>>>

>>> You are moving goal posts. Before you stated that not everyone wants both

>>> (a decent look and good organization)... now you are saying that it is in

>>> the eye of the beholder (which I agree with - to some extent).

>>>

>>> Then you jump back to the idea that if I want to have a distro with common

>>> sense needs: reasoned organization, consistency, a decent look, etc., I

>>> should do the distro dance and when that fails make my own or just improve

>>> on others.

>>>

>>> Sounds like you agree with me that, as is, Linux is not really ready for the

>>> general desktop.

>>>

>>>

>>

>> My reply was to Hadron.

>

> Correct.

>

>> Yes I believe that some of the distros are ready

>> for the desktop. That's why I am using Linux.

>

> And yet you claim that in order to get Linux to have good looks,

> consistency, well thought out organization, etc., I need to make my own

> distro or alter one.

 

 

 

If your so stupid you can't think for yourself.

 

>> No goal posts moved. Not everyone wants the looks of Ubuntu. Some hate

>> it. I think Ubuntu has a good organization, some such as you think not.

>> And yes looks is in the eye of the beholder.

>> Your wants are different than someone else's. If you want to do the

>> dance that's your prerogative. I did not tell you to do it.

>> If you like whatever distro then use that one, help that one. But don't

>> complain about Linux in general because you don't like some of the

>> distros.

>

> The problem is throughout the distros - not tied to one.

 

 

Then if you hate it so much why are you here?

 

 

 

>> Or as you stated above- "I should do the distro dance and when that

>> fails make my own or just improve on others."

>> Yes help improve and quit complaining that someone else wants to build

>> their own to satisfy their needs. You don't have to use theirs so why

>> complain.

>> Not everyone agree on what common sense is and from the looks of it I

>> don't think you use much.

>

> It is common sense to want general consistency, well thought out

> organization, and a decent look designed by a pro.

>

 

 

True, and there is general consistency within the distros that I have

tried. Not perfect but improving all the time. Personally I like the

look of several of them. Or you can even change it yourself. Or have

someone else do it for you.

Even my Mom told me to quit coming crying to her if I couldn't learn to

not do what was hurting me. And that was from a pro. If you don't like

a distro don't use it.

If someone else put something out there it is out of the kindness of

his/her heart hoping someone else out there likes it or can get benefit

out of it. No one holds a gun to your head forcing you to use it.

caver1

Snit wrote:

> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

> 47fa380c$0$12559$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 8:04 AM:

>

>> Snit wrote:

>>> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

>>> 47fa177e$0$16692$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 5:45 AM:

>>>

>>>>>> As I said it is still improving. Tell us where they are lacking.

>>>>>> caver1

>>>>> From past posts:

>>>>>

>>>>> PCLOS:

>>>>>

>>>>> Poorly done menus

>>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS-menu.pdf>

>>>>>

>>>>> Poorly done dialogs:

>>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.pdf>

>>>>>

>>>>> Poorly done and Inconsistent dialogs:

>>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS2.pdf>

>>>>>

>>>>> Mouse pointers that do not do as they say:

>>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.mov>

>>>> personally I don't like PcLinuxOS. But it is very popular.

>>> Lovely but irrelevant.

>>

>>

>> Why irrelevant? You brought that distro up in an Ubuntu group.

>

> You asked where *distros* were lacking... and I had been talking about PCLOS

> and Ubuntu. I answered.

 

 

So if you don't like it it is relevant but if some disagrees with you it

isn't? So you don't like that. If its a big enough hurdle that you can't

get over it move away from it or find some other way around it.

>>>>> Even Ubuntu has its share of quirks - though it is clearly done much

>>>>> better:

>>>>>

>>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/ubuntu-menu.pdf>

>>>>

>>>> Okay you have to go to file to quit.

>>

>>> For some programs, sure... for others you have to go to File to Exit... and

>>> for others you have to "close window" and for others you do not even go to

>>> File... and what is the hot key to terminate... a bit of a mess, eh?

>>>

>>>>> And the more recent one showing copy and paste oddities and weird text

>>>>> behavior on selection:

>>>>>

>>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/copy-paste.mov>

>>>> Load glipper problem solved.

>>> So it is not ready as is. And what is "glibber"? I am not familiar with it

>>

>>

>> For one it is glipper not glibber.

>

> My mistake. Sorry.

>

>> It is a clipboard. look it up. And

>> before you say why should I have to load a clipboard in Linux to use it.

>> The clipboard that comes with windows is not that great either so if you

>> want more functionality you have to load a third party clipboard of

>> which there are many. I personally like Clipmate.

>

> I have not even mentioned Windows and do not use it (generally - I do for

> some purposes). But it does have a clipboard that works better than what I

> show in the movie on Ubuntu!

 

 

 

My point was even in your perfect windows word people find things that

work much better and use them.

>>>>> It is not like such examples are hard to find - or are not obvious. How

>>>>> could anyone who has used Linux and either Windows or OS X not have such

>>>>> things be apparent to them - especially someone who considers themselves

>>>>> knowledgeable about computers?

>>>

 

 

If I let things like that stop me instesd of trying to find ways to

improve them for myself then I would have never gotten past DOS let

alone Windows.

 

 

>>

>> They are apparent. But how long are you going to cry to mama because you

>> stubbed your toe?

>> caver1

>

> Er? Not sure what you are getting at.

>

 

 

 

Instead of crying all the time do something to improve whatever it is.

goodbye

caver1

"caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

47fa539f$0$11318$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 10:02 AM:

> Snit wrote:

>> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

>> 47fa380c$0$12559$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 8:04 AM:

>>

>>> Snit wrote:

>>>> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

>>>> 47fa177e$0$16692$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 5:45 AM:

>>>>

>>>>>>> As I said it is still improving. Tell us where they are lacking.

>>>>>>> caver1

>>>>>> From past posts:

>>>>>>

>>>>>> PCLOS:

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Poorly done menus

>>>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS-menu.pdf>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Poorly done dialogs:

>>>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.pdf>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Poorly done and Inconsistent dialogs:

>>>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS2.pdf>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Mouse pointers that do not do as they say:

>>>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.mov>

>>>>> personally I don't like PcLinuxOS. But it is very popular.

>>>> Lovely but irrelevant.

>>>

>>>

>>> Why irrelevant? You brought that distro up in an Ubuntu group.

>>

>> You asked where *distros* were lacking... and I had been talking about PCLOS

>> and Ubuntu. I answered.

>

> So if you don't like it it is relevant but if some disagrees with you it

> isn't? So you don't like that. If its a big enough hurdle that you can't

> get over it move away from it or find some other way around it.

 

Likes and dislikes are not the issue. Not sure where you got that from. I

am talking about inconsistencies and specific problems with desktop Linux

distros.

 

....

>>> It is a clipboard. look it up. And

>>> before you say why should I have to load a clipboard in Linux to use it.

>>> The clipboard that comes with windows is not that great either so if you

>>> want more functionality you have to load a third party clipboard of

>>> which there are many. I personally like Clipmate.

>>

>> I have not even mentioned Windows and do not use it (generally - I do for

>> some purposes). But it does have a clipboard that works better than what I

>> show in the movie on Ubuntu!

>

> My point was even in your perfect windows word people find things that

> work much better and use them.

 

Not sure what you mean by "perfect windows word"... maybe "perfect Windows

world"? If so I assure you I certainly do not feel that way... while I use

Windows it is not my primary desktop environment (I only have it installed

in a virtual machine). And, again, I have no problem with the idea of

people being able to replace the standard clipboard with a better (or even

just different) one - my concern is the fact that the standard one *clearly*

does not work as it should.

 

Do you understand the difference?

>>>>>> It is not like such examples are hard to find - or are not obvious. How

>>>>>> could anyone who has used Linux and either Windows or OS X not have such

>>>>>> things be apparent to them - especially someone who considers themselves

>>>>>> knowledgeable about computers?

>

> If I let things like that stop me instesd of trying to find ways to

> improve them for myself then I would have never gotten past DOS let

> alone Windows.

 

Stop you? Again, not sure what you mean... who is stopped from doing what?

>>> They are apparent. But how long are you going to cry to mama because you

>>> stubbed your toe?

>>> caver1

>>

>> Er? Not sure what you are getting at.

>

> Instead of crying all the time do something to improve whatever it is.

 

Well, getting people in the Linux community to not be in denial is a good

first step.

> goodbye

 

good bye.

 

 

--

"The music is not inside the piano." - Alan Kay

"caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

47fa51bd$0$11299$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 9:54 AM:

>>> My reply was to Hadron.

>>

>> Correct.

>>

>>> Yes I believe that some of the distros are ready

>>> for the desktop. That's why I am using Linux.

>>

>> And yet you claim that in order to get Linux to have good looks,

>> consistency, well thought out organization, etc., I need to make my own

>> distro or alter one.

>

> If your so stupid you can't think for yourself.

 

I am not... nor am I interested in off-topic insults. If that is what you

are looking for I suggest you speak with someone else.

>>> No goal posts moved. Not everyone wants the looks of Ubuntu. Some hate

>>> it. I think Ubuntu has a good organization, some such as you think not.

>>> And yes looks is in the eye of the beholder.

>>> Your wants are different than someone else's. If you want to do the

>>> dance that's your prerogative. I did not tell you to do it.

>>> If you like whatever distro then use that one, help that one. But don't

>>> complain about Linux in general because you don't like some of the

>>> distros.

>>

>> The problem is throughout the distros - not tied to one.

>

> Then if you hate it so much why are you here?

 

Hate? Hate what? Again you seem lost. Of the Linux distros I prefer

Ubuntu - while PCLOS and others are better organized and have a far more

professional look, Ubuntu is the distro that is most focused on consistency

and general user issues. I think it has done more good for Linux than any

other distro in a long time.

>>> Or as you stated above- "I should do the distro dance and when that

>>> fails make my own or just improve on others."

>>> Yes help improve and quit complaining that someone else wants to build

>>> their own to satisfy their needs. You don't have to use theirs so why

>>> complain.

>>> Not everyone agree on what common sense is and from the looks of it I

>>> don't think you use much.

>>

>

>> It is common sense to want general consistency, well thought out

>> organization, and a decent look designed by a pro.

>

> True, and there is general consistency within the distros that I have

> tried.

 

I have shown you where both PCLOS and Ubuntu are far off that mark (though

Ubuntu at least makes an attempt!)

> Not perfect but improving all the time.

 

Agreed.

> Personally I like the

> look of several of them. Or you can even change it yourself. Or have

> someone else do it for you.

> Even my Mom told me to quit coming crying to her if I couldn't learn to

> not do what was hurting me. And that was from a pro. If you don't like

> a distro don't use it.

 

Who said anything about liking or disliking? And why talk about your mom?

> If someone else put something out there it is out of the kindness of

> his/her heart hoping someone else out there likes it or can get benefit

> out of it. No one holds a gun to your head forcing you to use it.

 

Of course not. You sure go off topic a lot.

 

--

When thinking changes your mind, that's philosophy.

When God changes your mind, that's faith.

When facts change your mind, that's science.

Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> writes:

> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

> 47fa51bd$0$11299$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 9:54 AM:

>

>>>> My reply was to Hadron.

>>>

>>> Correct.

>>>

>>>> Yes I believe that some of the distros are ready

>>>> for the desktop. That's why I am using Linux.

>>>

>>> And yet you claim that in order to get Linux to have good looks,

>>> consistency, well thought out organization, etc., I need to make my own

>>> distro or alter one.

>>

>> If your so stupid you can't think for yourself.

>

> I am not... nor am I interested in off-topic insults. If that is what you

> are looking for I suggest you speak with someone else.

 

I didn't think it would take caver1 long for his obvious ignorance about

what is being discussed to convert itself into personal attacks.

>

>>>> No goal posts moved. Not everyone wants the looks of Ubuntu. Some hate

>>>> it. I think Ubuntu has a good organization, some such as you think not.

>>>> And yes looks is in the eye of the beholder.

>>>> Your wants are different than someone else's. If you want to do the

>>>> dance that's your prerogative. I did not tell you to do it.

>>>> If you like whatever distro then use that one, help that one. But don't

>>>> complain about Linux in general because you don't like some of the

>>>> distros.

>>>

>>> The problem is throughout the distros - not tied to one.

>>

>> Then if you hate it so much why are you here?

 

Sigh. It's like Rick all over again.

>

> Hate? Hate what? Again you seem lost. Of the Linux distros I prefer

> Ubuntu - while PCLOS and others are better organized and have a far more

> professional look, Ubuntu is the distro that is most focused on consistency

> and general user issues. I think it has done more good for Linux than any

> other distro in a long time.

 

Sad isn't it? He sees constructive criticism and a desire to see things

improve as "hatred". What is wrong with these COLA "advocates"?

>

>>>> Or as you stated above- "I should do the distro dance and when that

>>>> fails make my own or just improve on others."

>>>> Yes help improve and quit complaining that someone else wants to build

>>>> their own to satisfy their needs. You don't have to use theirs so why

>>>> complain.

>>>> Not everyone agree on what common sense is and from the looks of it I

>>>> don't think you use much.

>>>

>>

>>> It is common sense to want general consistency, well thought out

>>> organization, and a decent look designed by a pro.

>>

>> True, and there is general consistency within the distros that I have

>> tried.

 

LOL. Blind as well as in denial.

>

> I have shown you where both PCLOS and Ubuntu are far off that mark (though

> Ubuntu at least makes an attempt!)

>

>> Not perfect but improving all the time.

>

> Agreed.

>

>> Personally I like the

>> look of several of them. Or you can even change it yourself. Or have

>> someone else do it for you.

>> Even my Mom told me to quit coming crying to her if I couldn't learn to

>> not do what was hurting me. And that was from a pro. If you don't like

>> a distro don't use it.

 

Your Mum is a pro? Whatever that means.

>

> Who said anything about liking or disliking? And why talk about your

> mom?

 

Strange isn't it?

>

>> If someone else put something out there it is out of the kindness of

>> his/her heart hoping someone else out there likes it or can get benefit

>> out of it. No one holds a gun to your head forcing you to use it.

 

Whoever said you did? The point is whether its a good idea to release

more garbage "out of the kindness of your heart". If I allowed a dog to

do its "doggy things" on your doorstep out of the "kindness of my

heart" would you be grateful?

>

> Of course not. You sure go off topic a lot.

 

I'm not sure he understands what the message is here. I think Rick might

have got it earlier than caver1.

 

--

"I program Windows systems yes. But I am not a Windows user."

Peter Koehlmann, COLA.

"Hadron" <hadronquark@googlemail.com> stated in post

ftdlad$eg0$2@registered.motzarella.org on 4/7/08 10:23 AM:

> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> writes:

>

>> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post

>> 47fa51bd$0$11299$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 9:54 AM:

>>

>>>>> My reply was to Hadron.

>>>>

>>>> Correct.

>>>>

>>>>> Yes I believe that some of the distros are ready

>>>>> for the desktop. That's why I am using Linux.

>>>>

>>>> And yet you claim that in order to get Linux to have good looks,

>>>> consistency, well thought out organization, etc., I need to make my own

>>>> distro or alter one.

>>>

>>> If your so stupid you can't think for yourself.

>>

>> I am not... nor am I interested in off-topic insults. If that is what you

>> are looking for I suggest you speak with someone else.

>

> I didn't think it would take caver1 long for his obvious ignorance about

> what is being discussed to convert itself into personal attacks.

 

Sadly you seem to be correct.

>>>>> No goal posts moved. Not everyone wants the looks of Ubuntu. Some hate

>>>>> it. I think Ubuntu has a good organization, some such as you think not.

>>>>> And yes looks is in the eye of the beholder.

>>>>> Your wants are different than someone else's. If you want to do the

>>>>> dance that's your prerogative. I did not tell you to do it.

>>>>> If you like whatever distro then use that one, help that one. But don't

>>>>> complain about Linux in general because you don't like some of the

>>>>> distros.

>>>>

>>>> The problem is throughout the distros - not tied to one.

>>>

>>> Then if you hate it so much why are you here?

>

> Sigh. It's like Rick all over again.

 

Well, I think Rick was even less coherent. :)

>> Hate? Hate what? Again you seem lost. Of the Linux distros I prefer

>> Ubuntu - while PCLOS and others are better organized and have a far more

>> professional look, Ubuntu is the distro that is most focused on consistency

>> and general user issues. I think it has done more good for Linux than any

>> other distro in a long time.

>

> Sad isn't it? He sees constructive criticism and a desire to see things

> improve as "hatred". What is wrong with these COLA "advocates"?

 

Do you want the alphabetical or chronological list? :)

>>>>> Or as you stated above- "I should do the distro dance and when that

>>>>> fails make my own or just improve on others."

>>>>> Yes help improve and quit complaining that someone else wants to build

>>>>> their own to satisfy their needs. You don't have to use theirs so why

>>>>> complain.

>>>>> Not everyone agree on what common sense is and from the looks of it I

>>>>> don't think you use much.

>>>>

>>>

>>>> It is common sense to want general consistency, well thought out

>>>> organization, and a decent look designed by a pro.

>>>

>>> True, and there is general consistency within the distros that I have

>>> tried.

>

> LOL. Blind as well as in denial.

 

Images and videos are not strong enough support. :)

>> I have shown you where both PCLOS and Ubuntu are far off that mark (though

>> Ubuntu at least makes an attempt!)

>>

>>> Not perfect but improving all the time.

>>

>> Agreed.

>>

>>> Personally I like the

>>> look of several of them. Or you can even change it yourself. Or have

>>> someone else do it for you.

>>> Even my Mom told me to quit coming crying to her if I couldn't learn to

>>> not do what was hurting me. And that was from a pro. If you don't like

>>> a distro don't use it.

>

> Your Mum is a pro? Whatever that means.

>

>>

>> Who said anything about liking or disliking? And why talk about your

>> mom?

>

> Strange isn't it?

 

Very.

>>> If someone else put something out there it is out of the kindness of

>>> his/her heart hoping someone else out there likes it or can get benefit

>>> out of it. No one holds a gun to your head forcing you to use it.

>

> Whoever said you did? The point is whether its a good idea to release

> more garbage "out of the kindness of your heart". If I allowed a dog to

> do its "doggy things" on your doorstep out of the "kindness of my

> heart" would you be grateful?

>

>>

>> Of course not. You sure go off topic a lot.

>

> I'm not sure he understands what the message is here. I think Rick might

> have got it earlier than caver1.

 

Not sure about that!

 

--

"For example, user interfaces are _usually_ better in commercial software.

I'm not saying that this is always true, but in many cases the user

interface to a program is the most important part for a commercial

company..." Linus Torvalds <http://www.tlug.jp/docs/linus.html>