On 12/18/2007 10:37 PM On a whim, WaIIy pounded out on the keyboard

> On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:49:07 -0800, "Terry R." <F1ComNOSPAM@pobox.com>

> wrote:

>

>> On 12/18/2007 6:53 PM On a whim, Peter Foldes pounded out on the keyboard

>>

>>> Wally

>>>

>>> LOL. It was snipped out by me on purpose. Just like I will do half of what you have posted below . But this time I will mark a point for you to see.

>>>

>>> That ought to answer you

>>>

>> So Peter, after this in depth post, I'm still waiting for your detailed

>> explanation. You know, the one to my response that was removed because

>> of your mail client placing a delimiter when you top post.

>

> Terry, I can't see your sig.

>

> It suddenly disappeared when I went to reply.

>

> Is it some trick you pulled with your software ?

 

You need an MS client to see sigs -)

 

--

Terry R.

 

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Terry R. wrote:

> On 12/18/2007 11:32 AM On a whim, Peter Foldes pounded out on the

> keyboard

>

>> Terry

>>

>> You are in the wrong here.

>>

>

> Please explain what EVERY newsreader does with a delimiter that NO

> Windows mail client does. Please explain why only a Windows mail

> client inserts a delimiter when top posting. And then proceed to

> explain your comment above, especially since my newsreader knew what

> to do with the delimiter in your sig and no Windows mail clients do.

>

> Of course no one else can read what I stated, but I'M in the wrong???

 

I can read what you stated.

 

I'm confused. %-(

On 12/19/2007 2:15 PM On a whim, Daave pounded out on the keyboard

> Terry R. wrote:

>> On 12/18/2007 11:32 AM On a whim, Peter Foldes pounded out on the

>> keyboard

>>

>>> Terry

>>>

>>> You are in the wrong here.

>>>

>> Please explain what EVERY newsreader does with a delimiter that NO

>> Windows mail client does. Please explain why only a Windows mail

>> client inserts a delimiter when top posting. And then proceed to

>> explain your comment above, especially since my newsreader knew what

>> to do with the delimiter in your sig and no Windows mail clients do.

>>

>> Of course no one else can read what I stated, but I'M in the wrong???

>

> I can read what you stated.

>

> I'm confused. %-(

>

>

 

What I had stated in a previous post, that was wiped out by Peter top

posting using a delimiter. If you know the purpose of a delimiter, it

is ridiculous to add one when top posting, which is what MS clients do.

They weren't designed for it that way. Most newsreaders removes the

delimiter and everything below it. MS clients to not do that so the

developers thought it okay to use a delimiter when top posting? Why, if

the MS client ignores them anyway?

 

You bottom posted and don't have a delimiter. So when someone replies to

you your text will remain. Follow this thread from the beginning and

you will see what I mean.

 

 

--

Terry R.

 

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Terry R. wrote:

> On 12/19/2007 2:15 PM On a whim, Daave pounded out on the keyboard

>

>> Terry R. wrote:

>>> On 12/18/2007 11:32 AM On a whim, Peter Foldes pounded out on the

>>> keyboard

>>>

>>>> Terry

>>>>

>>>> You are in the wrong here.

>>>>

>>> Please explain what EVERY newsreader does with a delimiter that NO

>>> Windows mail client does. Please explain why only a Windows mail

>>> client inserts a delimiter when top posting. And then proceed to

>>> explain your comment above, especially since my newsreader knew what

>>> to do with the delimiter in your sig and no Windows mail clients do.

>>>

>>> Of course no one else can read what I stated, but I'M in the

>>> wrong???

>>

>> I can read what you stated.

>>

>> I'm confused. %-(

>>

>>

>

> What I had stated in a previous post, that was wiped out by Peter top

> posting using a delimiter. If you know the purpose of a delimiter, it

> is ridiculous to add one when top posting, which is what MS clients

> do. They weren't designed for it that way. Most newsreaders

> removes the delimiter and everything below it. MS clients to not do

> that so the developers thought it okay to use a delimiter when top

> posting? Why, if the MS client ignores them anyway?

>

> You bottom posted and don't have a delimiter. So when someone replies

> to you your text will remain. Follow this thread from the beginning

> and you will see what I mean.

 

I've been following. You had originally said to Mike:

 

<quote>

 

But here is a perfect example, you have to admit that the newsreader you

are using FAILED to remove the delimiter and the sig below it when you

replied to Lethos. THIS is the point we have been trying to make. The

MS mail/news clients are broken. My client (Thunderbird), properly

removed your delimiter and sig, which is the correct thing to do. And

when a client does it CORRECTLY, the clients that add the delimiter

INCORRECTLY when top posting, will remove everything below the

delimiter, something they were designed to do.

 

Why is it only the ones using the broken clients defend a flaw that is

so clearly evident? We're not blasting you directly, but only your (and

others) failure to see how most newsreaders work, and fix it so we can

"all get along".

 

</quote>

 

Peter's reply to you quoted your first three sentences. He purposefully

snipped the rest.

 

Then again, your material was *directly* below his sig (foolish!). This

has the unsettling effect of your words becoming part of his sig!

 

Now, whenever someone replies to that post, *that's* when your material

disappears.

 

Normally...

 

Although I use OE, I'm knowledgeable enough to also use OE QuoteFix. So,

normally, when I reply to a post with a delimiter, the delimiter and

everything below disappear -- as they should. However, I'm not quite

sure what Peter did, but when I was about to reply the same post, I

noticed the following in my reply window:

 

___________________________________________________

 

Peter Foldes wrote:

> Terry

>

> You are in the wrong here.

>

>

>> But here is a perfect example, you have to admit that the newsreader

>> you are using FAILED to remove the delimiter and the sig below it

>> when you replied to Lethos. THIS is the point we have been trying

>> to make.

 

___________________________________________________

 

I assume he was trying to be clever, and I suppose he succeeded because

I'm not sure how he did that! Perhaps it was the "news : %" ?

 

--

Now if we could only get Peter to do something about his word wrap!

On 12/19/2007 5:50 PM On a whim, Daave pounded out on the keyboard

 

<snip>

> I've been following. You had originally said to Mike:

>

> <quote>

>

> But here is a perfect example, you have to admit that the newsreader you

> are using FAILED to remove the delimiter and the sig below it when you

> replied to Lethos. THIS is the point we have been trying to make. The

> MS mail/news clients are broken. My client (Thunderbird), properly

> removed your delimiter and sig, which is the correct thing to do. And

> when a client does it CORRECTLY, the clients that add the delimiter

> INCORRECTLY when top posting, will remove everything below the

> delimiter, something they were designed to do.

>

> Why is it only the ones using the broken clients defend a flaw that is

> so clearly evident? We're not blasting you directly, but only your (and

> others) failure to see how most newsreaders work, and fix it so we can

> "all get along".

>

> </quote>

>

> Peter's reply to you quoted your first three sentences. He purposefully

> snipped the rest.

>

> Then again, your material was *directly* below his sig (foolish!). This

> has the unsettling effect of your words becoming part of his sig!

 

How else can one reply to someone who is top posting using a sig

delimiter? Only MS clients add a delimiter when top posting (THAT is

foolish!). I use Thunderbird, and when it's set to top post, NO

delimiter is added, as they are ONLY for bottom posting. And when I

reply to a top poster that is using a delimiter, EVERYTHING below the

delimiter is removed. Very self centered if you ask me.

>

> Now, whenever someone replies to that post, *that's* when your material

> disappears.

>

 

Yes, I'm aware of that. I (and others) have been trying to make those

certain people understand that.

> Normally...

>

> Although I use OE, I'm knowledgeable enough to also use OE QuoteFix. So,

> normally, when I reply to a post with a delimiter, the delimiter and

> everything below disappear -- as they should. However, I'm not quite

> sure what Peter did, but when I was about to reply the same post, I

> noticed the following in my reply window:

>

 

I always recommend QuoteFix to those who use OE/OL. But the one's here

top posting using a delimiter are doing it out of spite, not ignorance.

Mike has changed his posting method and I acknowledged him for it.

> ___________________________________________________

>

> Peter Foldes wrote:

>> Terry

>>

>> You are in the wrong here.

>>

>>

>>> But here is a perfect example, you have to admit that the newsreader

>>> you are using FAILED to remove the delimiter and the sig below it

>>> when you replied to Lethos. THIS is the point we have been trying

>>> to make.

>

> ___________________________________________________

>

> I assume he was trying to be clever, and I suppose he succeeded because

> I'm not sure how he did that! Perhaps it was the "news : %" ?

>

 

I don't know what you mean here.

 

--

Terry R.

 

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On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 20:50:08 -0500, "Daave"

<dcwashNOSPAM@myrealboxXYZ.invalid> wrote:

>Although I use OE, I'm knowledgeable enough to also use OE QuoteFix. So,

>normally, when I reply to a post with a delimiter, the delimiter and

>everything below disappear -- as they should.

 

Thanks for doing that.

Terry R. wrote:

> On 12/19/2007 5:50 PM On a whim, Daave pounded out on the keyboard

>

> <snip>

>

>> I've been following. You had originally said to Mike:

>>

>> <quote>

>>

>> But here is a perfect example, you have to admit that the newsreader

>> you are using FAILED to remove the delimiter and the sig below it

>> when you replied to Lethos. THIS is the point we have been trying

>> to make. The MS mail/news clients are broken. My client

>> (Thunderbird), properly removed your delimiter and sig, which is the

>> correct thing to do. And when a client does it CORRECTLY, the

>> clients that add the delimiter INCORRECTLY when top posting, will

>> remove everything below the delimiter, something they were designed

>> to do.

>>

>> Why is it only the ones using the broken clients defend a flaw that

>> is so clearly evident? We're not blasting you directly, but only

>> your (and others) failure to see how most newsreaders work, and fix

>> it so we can "all get along".

>>

>> </quote>

>>

>> Peter's reply to you quoted your first three sentences. He

>> purposefully snipped the rest.

>>

>> Then again, your material was *directly* below his sig (foolish!).

>> This has the unsettling effect of your words becoming part of his

>> sig!

>

> How else can one reply to someone who is top posting using a sig

> delimiter?

 

You misunderstood, Terry.

 

You weren't foolish. You didn't do anything at all. *Peter* was the one,

because he had top-posted, who wound up annexing your post into his

signature when he replied to your post! *That* is what was foolish. And

of course, when anyone (who is using a proper news client) replies to a

post such as Peter's, everything in his sig -- which included your

stuff! -- disappears. Okay, there's a way around it -- Ctrl+Z (at least

using OE QF), but I really do agree with you that Usenet posters should

follow established Netiquette.

> Only MS clients add a delimiter when top posting (THAT is

> foolish!). I use Thunderbird, and when it's set to top post, NO

> delimiter is added, as they are ONLY for bottom posting. And when I

> reply to a top poster that is using a delimiter, EVERYTHING below the

> delimiter is removed. Very self centered if you ask me.

 

Agreed.

>> Although I use OE, I'm knowledgeable enough to also use OE QuoteFix.

>> So, normally, when I reply to a post with a delimiter, the delimiter

>> and everything below disappear -- as they should. However, I'm not

>> quite sure what Peter did, but when I was about to reply the same

>> post, I noticed the following in my reply window:

>> ___________________________________________________

>>

>> Peter Foldes wrote:

>>> Terry

>>>

>>> You are in the wrong here.

>>>

>>>

>>>> But here is a perfect example, you have to admit that the

>>>> newsreader you are using FAILED to remove the delimiter and the

>>>> sig below it when you replied to Lethos. THIS is the point we

>>>> have been trying

>>>> to make.

>>

>> ___________________________________________________

>>

>> I assume he was trying to be clever, and I suppose he succeeded

>> because I'm not sure how he did that! Perhaps it was the "news : %" ?

>>

>

> I don't know what you mean here.

 

When I clicked on the Reply button to Peter's post, the above (that is,

the material between the lines) appeared in my window. I think Peter was

trying to be cute because it seems he figured out a way to top-post

using a delimiter without the effect you, I, and many others have

complained about (that is, everything below the sig will be deleted when

replying to such a post). But clearly, that is not what happened! True,

in my window, Peter's sig was definitely gone -- as one would expect.

However, your material (that which he was directly responding to)

somehow didn't get deleted (as it normally would)!

 

I'm not sure how he did this, but I'm sure it was intentional. See his

post again:

 

http://news://msnews.microsoft.com/ejDC0yaQIHA.4128@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl

 

Or

http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/msg/bfd804a28e66adec

 

Note what came after

"Terry R." <F1ComNOSPAM@pobox.com> wrote in message

 

It was

news : %

 

Is that a trick? Or is that by just placing the attribution line towards

the bottom (rather than at the top -- where it normally goes... even in

OE), that Peter was able to do what he did?

WaIIy wrote:

> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 20:50:08 -0500, "Daave"

> <dcwashNOSPAM@myrealboxXYZ.invalid> wrote:

>

>> Although I use OE, I'm knowledgeable enough to also use OE QuoteFix.

>> So, normally, when I reply to a post with a delimiter, the delimiter

>> and everything below disappear -- as they should.

>

> Thanks for doing that.

 

You're welcome.

 

I've tried at least four different news clients. And I gotta tell you,

if I want to read or post in plain text newsgroups, I really prefer the

layout of OE. For those few times I wish to download binaries, Xnews

handles that just fine. But otherwise, OE just feels best to me.

 

But everyone who chooses to use OE should really be aware of its

shortcomings. Fortunately, QuoteFix does a very nice job correcting OE's

flaws.

 

And I totally agree with Terry. Not that I'm arguing the merits of

top-posting, but if someone chooses to do that, they at least should

have the consideration to refrain from using a delimiter. And many do do

just that. But the ones who don't can be quite frustrating! 8-O

On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 23:18:54 -0500, "Daave"

<dcwashNOSPAM@myrealboxXYZ.invalid> wrote:

>When I clicked on the Reply button to Peter's post, the above (that is,

>the material between the lines) appeared in my window. I think Peter was

>trying to be cute because it seems he figured out a way to top-post

>using a delimiter without the effect you, I, and many others have

>complained about (that is, everything below the sig will be deleted when

>replying to such a post). But clearly, that is not what happened! True,

>in my window, Peter's sig was definitely gone -- as one would expect.

>However, your material (that which he was directly responding to)

>somehow didn't get deleted (as it normally would)!

>

>I'm not sure how he did this, but I'm sure it was intentional. See his

>post again:

 

He just copied and pasted.

On 12/19/2007 8:29 PM On a whim, Daave pounded out on the keyboard

> WaIIy wrote:

>> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 20:50:08 -0500, "Daave"

>> <dcwashNOSPAM@myrealboxXYZ.invalid> wrote:

>>

>>> Although I use OE, I'm knowledgeable enough to also use OE QuoteFix.

>>> So, normally, when I reply to a post with a delimiter, the delimiter

>>> and everything below disappear -- as they should.

>> Thanks for doing that.

>

> You're welcome.

>

> I've tried at least four different news clients. And I gotta tell you,

> if I want to read or post in plain text newsgroups, I really prefer the

> layout of OE. For those few times I wish to download binaries, Xnews

> handles that just fine. But otherwise, OE just feels best to me.

>

> But everyone who chooses to use OE should really be aware of its

> shortcomings. Fortunately, QuoteFix does a very nice job correcting OE's

> flaws.

>

> And I totally agree with Terry. Not that I'm arguing the merits of

> top-posting, but if someone chooses to do that, they at least should

> have the consideration to refrain from using a delimiter. And many do do

> just that. But the ones who don't can be quite frustrating! 8-O

>

>

 

Nothing wrong with using an MS client as long as it works properly, and

you know how to accomplish that using QuoteFix.

 

That's all that we were asking really, to just stop the delimiter. It

wasn't a top post bottom post war. Either they don't know how and won't

learn (even though QuoteFix has been recommended), or they just like

upsetting those that ask.

 

--

Terry R.

 

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