"has gone mini-postal"

And yet it is you and not me making these snide remarks.

It seems projection is at work.

Perhaps you should read the thread again.

 

--

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

http://www3.telus.net/dandemar

 

 

"WaIIy" <WaIIy@(nft).invalid> wrote in message

news:vnebm3d5mq6jksqdopu59l8tfsjivr34vp@4ax.com...

>

> I see your posts just fine and when I hit "Reply" , everything goes

> with

> it to my reply which I can edit for content if needed.

>

> With Jupiter's posts, the use of a delimiter in the sig causes all

> below

> the delimiter to disappear when "Reply" is chosen.

>

> You don't have a delimiter set for your sig, so no problem.

>

> Since you both are using Windows Mail, apparently there is some

> option

> in there to turn it off.

>

> He/she is aware of this but has gone mini-postal on the subject.

On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 19:12:11 -0500, Leythos <void@nowhere.lan> wrote:

>In article <vnebm3d5mq6jksqdopu59l8tfsjivr34vp@4ax.com>, WaIIy@

>(nft).invalid says...

>> With Jupiter's posts, the use of a delimiter in the sig causes all below

>> the delimiter to disappear when "Reply" is chosen.

>>

>> You don't have a delimiter set for your sig, so no problem.

>

>Actually, it is a problem, since he doesn't use the delimiter it means

>that his sig is not properly seen as a sig my Usenet clients that follow

>the standards, and that means that his sig is included be people reply

>to his posts - thus, it's broken.

>

>If you're going to top post then you should not put a sig in at all.

 

You're correct.

On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:24:20 -0700, "Jupiter Jones [MVP]"

<jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote:

>"has gone mini-postal"

>And yet it is you and not me making these snide remarks.

>It seems projection is at work.

>Perhaps you should read the thread again.

 

Perhaps I should, but I can't see it because of your delimiter.

"...can't see it because of your delimiter."

Absolutely FALSE, or a partial truth at best.

No matter what a newsreader used or configured, you would not be able

to read the entire thread in my post since all but the most recent

post has been deleted.

You would still need to read previous posts if it was desired to read

the entire thread.

You can easily see the rest just as easily as the rest of us.

 

You have decided that your inability to read my post is a problem for

you.

I have no problem.

You insist I change my configuration.

If you have a problem, deal with it.

But do not expect others to comply with your desires.

 

--

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

http://www3.telus.net/dandemar

 

 

"WaIIy" <WaIIy@(nft).invalid> wrote in message

news:jtlbm3tosoip174eqahk61qba1sd3nt8qk@4ax.com...

> Perhaps I should, but I can't see it because of your delimiter.

On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 21:34:02 -0700, "Jupiter Jones [MVP]"

<jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote:

>You insist I change my configuration.

>If you have a problem, deal with it.

>But do not expect others to comply with your desires.

>

>--

>Jupiter Jones [MVP]

>http://www3.telus.net/dandemar

 

If you talk to somebody long enough, they tend to reveal themselves.

 

You were a bit quicker than most.

In article <OppZcYGQIHA.1188@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>,

jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com says...

> You have decided that your inability to read my post is a problem for

> you.

> I have no problem.

> You insist I change my configuration.

> If you have a problem, deal with it.

> But do not expect others to comply with your desires.

 

Jupiter,

 

With all due respect, you do have a problem, you are not following the

norms that have been in place for decades, you a choosing to do what you

want above what the standard/norm is.

 

This is typical of people that don't really give a rats a$$ about

anything of themselves and are not willing to follow standards.

 

I understand that MS does not write software that follows internet

standards that have been in place longer than MS has been aware of the

Internet, but that's not any reason to follow MS's lead.

 

All proper Usenet clients default to bottom posting and they properly

delimit sigs and snip sigs when replying.

 

If you continue to be one of the "It's all about ME crowd" I will have

lost respect for you.

 

--

 

Leythos

- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.

- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a

drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"

spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

On 12/16/2007 12:55 AM On a whim, Detlev Dreyer pounded out on the keyboard

> "Terry R." <F1ComNOSPAM@pobox.com> wrote:

>

>>> Well, with XanaNews I guess you have to scroll. Not having used it, I

>>> can't really say. I know it works with most news readers.

>> And I can't see that a program so full featured for newsgroups would

>> leave out a simple method to get to the end of a message window.

>

> A simple method to get to the end of a message makes only sense while

> replying. "XanaNews" places the cursor at the bottom of the message in

> that case. Isn't that simple enough?

>

 

No, it isn't, and that isn't the only way it makes sense. Do you have

to click "Reply" to every message you quickly want to get to the bottom

of and read? I click in the message pane, press "End" and I'm there.

Everyone doesn't need to reply just to read.

 

--

Terry R.

 

***Reply Note***

Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.

Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

On 12/16/2007 3:03 PM On a whim, Jupiter Jones [MVP] pounded out on the

keyboard

> Everything is there except what I snipped.

> And as usual I snipped all but the last post.

>

> "made everything disappear."

> My newsreader lets me see the entire post.

>

> "Maybe not"

> entirely your choice.

>

> "your inability"

> More ASSUMPTIONS on your part.

> You should really stop ASSUMING.

>

 

YOU didn't snip anything. Your broken newsreader single handedly

removed everything because of the use of a DELIMITER when top posting.

 

You're missing the point. No one here is trying to stop you or anyone

else from top posting (I don't believe). What is being asked of you is

to stop having your broken newsreader insert a DELIMITER when you top

post. Once YOU understand that (and everyone else who is using the same

method with the same broken newsreader), it will only help in supporting

those who come here.

 

NO ASSUMPTIONS, just facts.

 

--

Terry R.

 

***Reply Note***

Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.

Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

On 12/16/2007 4:45 AM On a whim, Mike Hall - MVP pounded out on the keyboard

> Dave

>

> Scrolling is easy enough. I just choose not to want to do it in order to

> read every post..

>

 

Shouldn't have to scroll at all (except for interspersed replies). Click

on the message pane and press End. Or doesn't your newsreader work that way?

 

--

Terry R.

 

***Reply Note***

Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.

Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

"YOU didn't snip anything."

Yes, I did.

I and you should be able to easily see that.

I can also see my last post snipped exactly as I sent it.

 

"No one here is trying to stop..."

Then read earlier in the thread for what you apparently missed.

 

--

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

http://www3.telus.net/dandemar

 

 

"Terry R." <F1ComNOSPAM@pobox.com> wrote in message

news:%23u6Eu2MQIHA.5980@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> YOU didn't snip anything. Your broken newsreader single handedly

> removed everything because of the use of a DELIMITER when top

> posting.

>

> You're missing the point. No one here is trying to stop you or

> anyone else from top posting (I don't believe). What is being asked

> of you is to stop having your broken newsreader insert a DELIMITER

> when you top post. Once YOU understand that (and everyone else who

> is using the same method with the same broken newsreader), it will

> only help in supporting those who come here.

>

> NO ASSUMPTIONS, just facts.

>

> --

> Terry R.

>

> ***Reply Note***

> Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.

> Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

On 12/16/2007 10:09 AM On a whim, WaIIy pounded out on the keyboard

> On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 10:47:31 -0500, "Mike Hall - MVP"

> <mikehall@mvps.com> wrote:

>

>> Frank, you are not in a good position to point a finger at anybody for

>> whatever behavior a person may demonstrate.. :-)

>

> Can anyone see the thread ?

>

> Oh, that darned delimiter of yours.

>

> It's a twofer.

 

Yes, he removed it for the one reply only...

 

--

Terry R.

 

***Reply Note***

Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.

Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

Terry R. wrote:

> On 12/16/2007 3:03 PM On a whim, Jupiter Jones [MVP] pounded out on the

> keyboard

>

>> Everything is there except what I snipped.

>> And as usual I snipped all but the last post.

>>

>> "made everything disappear."

>> My newsreader lets me see the entire post.

>>

>> "Maybe not"

>> entirely your choice.

>>

>> "your inability"

>> More ASSUMPTIONS on your part.

>> You should really stop ASSUMING.

>>

>

> YOU didn't snip anything. Your broken newsreader single handedly

> removed everything because of the use of a DELIMITER when top posting.

>

> You're missing the point.

 

And he will continue to miss it.

> No one here is trying to stop you or anyone

> else from top posting (I don't believe). What is being asked of you is

> to stop having your broken newsreader insert a DELIMITER when you top

> post. Once YOU understand that (and everyone else who is using the same

> method with the same broken newsreader), it will only help in supporting

> those who come here.

>

> NO ASSUMPTIONS, just facts.

>

 

I've given up on the stubborn top posters. They're obviously too fuçking

stupid to understand simple logic. MS Outhouse Distress and Windows Fail

put the cursor at the top of the post and the MS fanboys and girls see

that and figure -- erroneously -- that that's the standard.

 

Alias

"Terry R." <F1ComNOSPAM@pobox.com> wrote:

>> A simple method to get to the end of a message makes only sense while

>> replying. "XanaNews" places the cursor at the bottom of the message in

>> that case. Isn't that simple enough?

>>

> No, it isn't, and that isn't the only way it makes sense. Do you have

> to click "Reply" to every message you quickly want to get to the bottom

> of and read? I click in the message pane, press "End" and I'm there.

> Everyone doesn't need to reply just to read.

 

Well, I usually read the messages that I'm replying to. Once you've made

almost 25,000 postings (Windows groups only) via newsreader you know the

features that *really* make sense. )

http://groups.google.com/groups?as_uauthors=Detlev%20Dreyer

 

Sorry, the case is closed.

 

[F'up to: poster]

 

--

d-d

"Detlev Dreyer" <detdreyer@flashmail.com> wrote in message

news:e7b594d82ef2561c5b9299060a0aa446@d-d.mvps.org...

> A simple method to get to the end of a message makes only sense while

> replying. "XanaNews" places the cursor at the bottom of the message in

> that case. Isn't that simple enough?

 

But if you don't wish to reply, simple methods come in handy when the

beginning of a bottom- or inline-posted message is a certain number of

lines from the top which necessitates scrolling.

 

People who favor top-posting cite the fact that they don't need/want to

scroll (and that others shouldn't need/want to scroll, either) in the

first place as a reason they think it's good to top-post. Of course, it

ruins the flow of the dialogue.

 

I don't know about other newsreaders, but Outlook Express offers a very

easy way around this: the space bar.

 

Granted, OE is somewhat of a broken newsreader out of the box (e.g., not

having the cursor in the proper location -- at the bottom of the message

on is replying to). But it really doesn't take much effort to use a

mouse or the page-down button! And the OE QuoteFix app is decent in that

it turns OE into a decent news client (complete with the option to place

the cursor where it belongs).

On 12/17/2007 10:03 AM On a whim, Alias pounded out on the keyboard

> Terry R. wrote:

>> On 12/16/2007 3:03 PM On a whim, Jupiter Jones [MVP] pounded out on the

>> keyboard

>>

>>> Everything is there except what I snipped.

>>> And as usual I snipped all but the last post.

>>>

>>> "made everything disappear."

>>> My newsreader lets me see the entire post.

>>>

>>> "Maybe not"

>>> entirely your choice.

>>>

>>> "your inability"

>>> More ASSUMPTIONS on your part.

>>> You should really stop ASSUMING.

>>>

>> YOU didn't snip anything. Your broken newsreader single handedly

>> removed everything because of the use of a DELIMITER when top posting.

>>

>> You're missing the point.

>

> And he will continue to miss it.

>

>> No one here is trying to stop you or anyone

>> else from top posting (I don't believe). What is being asked of you is

>> to stop having your broken newsreader insert a DELIMITER when you top

>> post. Once YOU understand that (and everyone else who is using the same

>> method with the same broken newsreader), it will only help in supporting

>> those who come here.

>>

>> NO ASSUMPTIONS, just facts.

>>

>

> I've given up on the stubborn top posters. They're obviously too fuçking

> stupid to understand simple logic. MS Outhouse Distress and Windows Fail

> put the cursor at the top of the post and the MS fanboys and girls see

> that and figure -- erroneously -- that that's the standard.

>

> Alias

 

You mean like someone crapping in ones pants because that's where there

butt is? -)

 

--

Terry R.

 

***Reply Note***

Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.

Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

On 12/17/2007 10:40 AM On a whim, Detlev Dreyer pounded out on the keyboard

> "Terry R." <F1ComNOSPAM@pobox.com> wrote:

>

>>> A simple method to get to the end of a message makes only sense while

>>> replying. "XanaNews" places the cursor at the bottom of the message in

>>> that case. Isn't that simple enough?

>>>

>> No, it isn't, and that isn't the only way it makes sense. Do you have

>> to click "Reply" to every message you quickly want to get to the bottom

>> of and read? I click in the message pane, press "End" and I'm there.

>> Everyone doesn't need to reply just to read.

>

> Well, I usually read the messages that I'm replying to. Once you've made

> almost 25,000 postings (Windows groups only) via newsreader you know the

> features that *really* make sense. )

> http://groups.google.com/groups?as_uauthors=Detlev%20Dreyer

>

> Sorry, the case is closed.

>

> [F'up to: poster]

>

 

Sorry, you don't have the power to close anything. So, you ONLY read

messages you're going to reply to. Interesting how you know that before

reading. Pat yourself on the back all you want, it doesn't change the

fact that all newsreaders should have a quick method to go to the end of

a message within the message view pane.

 

--

Terry R.

 

***Reply Note***

Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.

Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

On 12/17/2007 11:04 AM On a whim, Daave pounded out on the keyboard

> "Detlev Dreyer" <detdreyer@flashmail.com> wrote in message

> news:e7b594d82ef2561c5b9299060a0aa446@d-d.mvps.org...

>

>> A simple method to get to the end of a message makes only sense while

>> replying. "XanaNews" places the cursor at the bottom of the message in

>> that case. Isn't that simple enough?

>

> But if you don't wish to reply, simple methods come in handy when the

> beginning of a bottom- or inline-posted message is a certain number of

> lines from the top which necessitates scrolling.

>

> People who favor top-posting cite the fact that they don't need/want to

> scroll (and that others shouldn't need/want to scroll, either) in the

> first place as a reason they think it's good to top-post. Of course, it

> ruins the flow of the dialogue.

>

> I don't know about other newsreaders, but Outlook Express offers a very

> easy way around this: the space bar.

>

> Granted, OE is somewhat of a broken newsreader out of the box (e.g., not

> having the cursor in the proper location -- at the bottom of the message

> on is replying to). But it really doesn't take much effort to use a

> mouse or the page-down button! And the OE QuoteFix app is decent in that

> it turns OE into a decent news client (complete with the option to place

> the cursor where it belongs).

>

>

 

That's the problem. The ones that do it that way don't feel there's

anything wrong with their newsreader, regardless if QuoteFix is a known

solver of this issue.

 

--

Terry R.

 

***Reply Note***

Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.

Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

And then scroll back up if the answer is interleaved? Why make life so

difficult? Just because Fred Flintstone did it that way?

 

It amuses me that the issue of whether one should top or bottom post ALWAYS

comes up after a troll has lost arguments over Vista or anything Microsoft.

In most cases, the troll will start another post, but now and again, it is

used as a last ditch snipe.

 

To get people to co-operate, one has to be nice about it. Unfortunately,

trolls have been slinging insults and name calling, not only to those who

try to help, but to newbies and others with problems too.

 

I could take issue with the top line which appears in all of your posts, but

I don't. I let it go. Yours is not as bad as some I have seen, and one of

the many reasons I quit the alt.os groups was because of the sneering

attitudes and lack of decency showed by some there.

 

--

Mike Hall - MVP

http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

"Terry R." <F1ComNOSPAM@pobox.com> wrote:

> Sorry, you don't have the power to close anything.

 

Believe me, I do.

 

[F'up to: poster]

 

--

d-d

"Terry R." <F1ComNOSPAM@pobox.com> wrote in message news:eLKwcI0PIHA.3532@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> On 12/15/2007 5:22 AM On a whim, Mike Hall - MVP pounded out on the keyboard

>

>> I think that it is wrong to have to scroll down every message looking for an

>> answer..

>>

>

> That is the fault of the poster if they don't snip what isn't relevant

> to their reply. Sure laziness can cause a lengthy post. But to take

> out EVERYTHING because of a delimiter being used when top posting is

> just wrong. Look at your answer above. It looks like you just made a

> comment out of nowhere.

>

> --

> Terry R.

>

> ***Reply Note***

> Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.

> Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

On 12/17/2007 11:23 AM On a whim, Mike Hall - MVP pounded out on the

keyboard

> And then scroll back up if the answer is interleaved? Why make life so

> difficult? Just because Fred Flintstone did it that way?

 

I have no idea who you're responding to, but interspersed text really

can't be considered in this discussion. It doesn't happen all the time

and if top posters didn't use the DELIMITER, a lot of this discussion

wouldn't even be necessary.

>

> It amuses me that the issue of whether one should top or bottom post ALWAYS

> comes up after a troll has lost arguments over Vista or anything Microsoft.

> In most cases, the troll will start another post, but now and again, it is

> used as a last ditch snipe.

>

 

I seriously doubt it's ALWAYS.

> To get people to co-operate, one has to be nice about it. Unfortunately,

> trolls have been slinging insults and name calling, not only to those who

> try to help, but to newbies and others with problems too.

>

> I could take issue with the top line which appears in all of your posts, but

> I don't. I let it go. Yours is not as bad as some I have seen, and one of

> the many reasons I quit the alt.os groups was because of the sneering

> attitudes and lack of decency showed by some there.

>

 

Again, I don't know who you're responding to, but the header line isn't

the issue here. But that's big of you to "let it go" with whoever you

are referring to.

 

 

--

Terry R.

 

***Reply Note***

Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.

Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

In article <e2PXQJOQIHA.5184@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>, mikehall@mvps.com

says...

> It amuses me that the issue of whether one should top or bottom post ALWAYS

> comes up after a troll has lost arguments over Vista or anything Microsoft.

 

No, it's actually because MS decided they would do Usenet their way and

violate every standard except the message formats.

 

Simple problems: Improper quoting, HTML in some cases, makes people

think they are using email, failure to clip signatures, failure to

insert signature with delimiter properly, failure to bottom post by

default.....

 

MS Abused Usenet from the start, they didn't have too, but they believe

they have the power to change everything - except that Usenet was

clearly established before MS even became aware of a Usenet or Internet

as most know it.

 

Yes, many people that whine about top/bottom posting are trolls, I've

never been one and have been using Usenet since 84, so I've seen all

types, the worst one as the ones that feel they are more important than

following standards and norms for something older than their experience

with it.

 

Your current reply method, the one I'm replying to, is meaningless

without some inclusion of the post you were replying to.

 

You do understand that Usenet is not perfect and article loss is common,

which is the reason people snip/reply with the relevant part of the

message they are replying to - you know this, right?

 

--

 

Leythos

- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.

- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a

drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"

spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

> There is a lot of talk about not seeing stuff and yet all of my top

> posts have been seen. The only difference is that there is not a lot

> of crap above or below. Or is there?

>

> Mike Hall - MVP

> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

 

 

I noticed you stopped using the delimiter, Mike. Thanks! :-)

 

The talk was not about whether or not your posts have been seen but

rather about the consequences of replying to a top-posted message which

happens to include a delimiter. Now that you have altered how you post

(thanks again), replying to your posts can preserve whatever the new

poster deems is necessary.

 

I can't vouch for other newsreaders, but when using OE w/ QuoteFix,

Control+Z comes in handy whenever replying to a top-posted message which

contains a delimiter.

On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 08:57:49 -0800, "Terry R." <F1ComNOSPAM@pobox.com>

wrote:

>On 12/16/2007 4:45 AM On a whim, Mike Hall - MVP pounded out on the keyboard

>

>> Dave

>>

>> Scrolling is easy enough. I just choose not to want to do it in order to

>> read every post..

>>

>

>Shouldn't have to scroll at all (except for interspersed replies). Click

>on the message pane and press End. Or doesn't your newsreader work that way?

 

I guess I'm confused. How many posts are so long you have to scroll ?

 

This is ludicrous.

On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:23:30 -0500, "Mike Hall - MVP"

<mikehall@mvps.com> wrote:

>And then scroll back up if the answer is interleaved? Why make life so

>difficult? Just because Fred Flintstone did it that way?

>

>It amuses me that the issue of whether one should top or bottom post ALWAYS

>comes up after a troll has lost arguments over Vista or anything Microsoft.

>In most cases, the troll will start another post, but now and again, it is

>used as a last ditch snipe.

>

>To get people to co-operate, one has to be nice about it. Unfortunately,

>trolls have been slinging insults and name calling, not only to those who

>try to help, but to newbies and others with problems too.

>

>I could take issue with the top line which appears in all of your posts, but

>I don't. I let it go. Yours is not as bad as some I have seen, and one of

>the many reasons I quit the alt.os groups was because of the sneering

>attitudes and lack of decency showed by some there.

 

Who are you replying to? This makes no sense.