On 12/15/2007 5:22 AM On a whim, Mike Hall - MVP pounded out on the keyboard

> I think that it is wrong to have to scroll down every message looking for an

> answer..

>

 

That is the fault of the poster if they don't snip what isn't relevant

to their reply. Sure laziness can cause a lengthy post. But to take

out EVERYTHING because of a delimiter being used when top posting is

just wrong. Look at your answer above. It looks like you just made a

comment out of nowhere.

 

--

Terry R.

 

***Reply Note***

Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.

Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

Detlev Dreyer wrote:

> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.com> wrote:

>

>> Wouldn't that depend on the size of the window which opened?

>

> That depends on the *newsreader* in the first place. The one that I'm using

> at the moment jumps to the message at the bottom of the list rather than to

> the end of a selected message when hitting the "End" key.

>

 

You need to click on the message body before hitting End.

 

Alias

On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 08:22:53 -0500, "Mike Hall - MVP"

<mikehall@mvps.com> wrote:

>I think that it is wrong to have to scroll down every message looking for an

>answer..

 

That's fine if yours is the only answer.

"Alias" <alias@aliasmail.com> wrote:

> Detlev Dreyer wrote:

>> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.com> wrote:

>>

>>> Wouldn't that depend on the size of the window which opened?

>>

>> That depends on the newsreader in the first place. The one that I'm using

>> at the moment jumps to the message at the bottom of the list rather than to

>> the end of a selected message when hitting the "End" key.

>>

>

> You need to click on the message body before hitting End.

 

Nope, doesn't work either. As for all of these special keys, the behavior

depends *always* on the application - "XanaNews Version 1.18.1.6".

 

--

d-d

Not if you read the post above.. :-)

 

--

Mike Hall - MVP

http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

 

 

 

 

"Terry R." <F1ComNOSPAM@pobox.com> wrote in message

news:eLKwcI0PIHA.3532@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> On 12/15/2007 5:22 AM On a whim, Mike Hall - MVP pounded out on the

> keyboard

>

>> I think that it is wrong to have to scroll down every message looking for

>> an answer..

>>

>

> That is the fault of the poster if they don't snip what isn't relevant to

> their reply. Sure laziness can cause a lengthy post. But to take out

> EVERYTHING because of a delimiter being used when top posting is just

> wrong. Look at your answer above. It looks like you just made a comment

> out of nowhere.

>

> --

> Terry R.

>

> ***Reply Note***

> Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.

> Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

On 12/15/2007 10:28 AM On a whim, Mike Hall - MVP pounded out on the

keyboard

> Not if you read the post above.. :-)

>

 

Ah, now you expect everyone to view All Threads, just so those who want

to top post using a MS news client that strips everything relevant?

What if the person only views Unread? You want them to switch the view

just because of the stubborn attitudes of the few?

 

--

Terry R.

 

***Reply Note***

Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.

Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:06:30 -0800, "Terry R." <F1ComNOSPAM@pobox.com>

wrote:

>On 12/15/2007 10:28 AM On a whim, Mike Hall - MVP pounded out on the

>keyboard

>

>> Not if you read the post above.. :-)

>>

>

>Ah, now you expect everyone to view All Threads, just so those who want

>to top post using a MS news client that strips everything relevant?

>What if the person only views Unread? You want them to switch the view

>just because of the stubborn attitudes of the few?

 

Well, they don't understand how Usenet works, as they are a product of

Microsoft Forums. Their understanding of how delimiters work,

particularly upon "reply" is simply not there.

 

It's just another case of poorly coded software attempting to change a

standard because they think "they can".

 

Additionally they wear the MVP Badge of Arrogance ©

(Note: Not all MVP's, of course. Actually, not most MVP's))

It is always good to read the 'whole' story..

 

--

Mike Hall - MVP

http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

 

 

 

 

"Terry R." <F1ComNOSPAM@pobox.com> wrote in message

news:eya0V20PIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> On 12/15/2007 10:28 AM On a whim, Mike Hall - MVP pounded out on the

> keyboard

>

>> Not if you read the post above.. :-)

>>

>

> Ah, now you expect everyone to view All Threads, just so those who want to

> top post using a MS news client that strips everything relevant? What if

> the person only views Unread? You want them to switch the view just

> because of the stubborn attitudes of the few?

>

> --

> Terry R.

>

> ***Reply Note***

> Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.

> Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

You will find in life that arrogance begets arrogance.. your move..

 

--

Mike Hall - MVP

http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

 

 

 

 

"WaIIy" <WaIIy@(nft).invalid> wrote in message

news:knb8m3dloli65vnovg250aall4o3e28eqs@4ax.com...

> On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:06:30 -0800, "Terry R." <F1ComNOSPAM@pobox.com>

> wrote:

>

>>On 12/15/2007 10:28 AM On a whim, Mike Hall - MVP pounded out on the

>>keyboard

>>

>>> Not if you read the post above.. :-)

>>>

>>

>>Ah, now you expect everyone to view All Threads, just so those who want

>>to top post using a MS news client that strips everything relevant?

>>What if the person only views Unread? You want them to switch the view

>>just because of the stubborn attitudes of the few?

>

> Well, they don't understand how Usenet works, as they are a product of

> Microsoft Forums. Their understanding of how delimiters work,

> particularly upon "reply" is simply not there.

>

> It's just another case of poorly coded software attempting to change a

> standard because they think "they can".

>

> Additionally they wear the MVP Badge of Arrogance ©

> (Note: Not all MVP's, of course. Actually, not most MVP's))

Detlev Dreyer wrote:

> "Alias" <alias@aliasmail.com> wrote:

>

>> Detlev Dreyer wrote:

>>> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.com> wrote:

>>>

>>>> Wouldn't that depend on the size of the window which opened?

>>> That depends on the newsreader in the first place. The one that I'm using

>>> at the moment jumps to the message at the bottom of the list rather than to

>>> the end of a selected message when hitting the "End" key.

>>>

>> You need to click on the message body before hitting End.

>

> Nope, doesn't work either. As for all of these special keys, the behavior

> depends *always* on the application - "XanaNews Version 1.18.1.6".

>

 

Well, with XanaNews I guess you have to scroll. Not having used it, I

can't really say. I know it works with most news readers.

 

Alias

On 12/15/2007 12:40 PM On a whim, Mike Hall - MVP pounded out on the

keyboard

> It is always good to read the 'whole' story..

>

 

Yes, that has been my point all along. Thank you. And because you use a

faulty mail/news client that inserts a bogus delimiter when you choose

top posting, you effectively remove "the 'whole' story."

 

--

Terry R.

 

***Reply Note***

Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.

Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

On 12/15/2007 12:46 PM On a whim, Alias pounded out on the keyboard

> Detlev Dreyer wrote:

>> "Alias" <alias@aliasmail.com> wrote:

>>

>>> Detlev Dreyer wrote:

>>>> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.com> wrote:

>>>>

>>>>> Wouldn't that depend on the size of the window which opened?

>>>> That depends on the newsreader in the first place. The one that I'm using

>>>> at the moment jumps to the message at the bottom of the list rather than to

>>>> the end of a selected message when hitting the "End" key.

>>>>

>>> You need to click on the message body before hitting End.

>> Nope, doesn't work either. As for all of these special keys, the behavior

>> depends *always* on the application - "XanaNews Version 1.18.1.6".

>>

>

> Well, with XanaNews I guess you have to scroll. Not having used it, I

> can't really say. I know it works with most news readers.

>

> Alias

 

And I can't see that a program so full featured for newsgroups would

leave out a simple method to get to the end of a message window.

 

--

Terry R.

 

***Reply Note***

Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.

Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

<this conversation in its entirety>

 

http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/browse_frm/thread/1a55b354e9f7b7c/67fd8b1acea441f4?lnk=st&q=#67fd8b1acea441f4

On 12/15/2007 4:43 PM On a whim, Shenan Stanley pounded out on the keyboard

> <this conversation in its entirety>

>

> http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/browse_frm/thread/1a55b354e9f7b7c/67fd8b1acea441f4?lnk=st&q=#67fd8b1acea441f4

>

>

 

Yes, let's rely on Google Groups because a few like the idea of wiping

out everything in a thread. BTW, just WHO were you replying to, since

you decided to take out ALL relevant material? GG shows your reply as

#72 and mine was #71, but Wally's was #73 and his post was from

yesterday, so you can't rely on that too well either.

 

--

Terry R.

 

***Reply Note***

Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.

Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

In article <eLKwcI0PIHA.3532@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>,

F1ComNOSPAM@pobox.com says...

> That is the fault of the poster if they don't snip what isn't relevant

> to their reply. Sure laziness can cause a lengthy post. But to take

> out EVERYTHING because of a delimiter being used when top posting is

> just wrong. Look at your answer above. It looks like you just made a

> comment out of nowhere.

 

Not that I want to get in the war here, but Top Posting is a sign of

disrespect once you've been informed of the proper method. Top posting

is most common among the ignorant masses and people that believe they

are special and the norms don't apply to them.

 

The proper posting method is to assume that all previous posts have not

been read, that they are unavailable, since usenet can drop posts based

on many factors, and that the person doing the reply will SNIP parts

that are unneeded. If this is followed there is almost no need to scroll

in a windowed reader and the responses properly from from oldest to

newest, like a book or snail mail would.

 

--

 

Leythos

- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.

- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a

drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"

spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 15:41:42 -0500, "Mike Hall - MVP"

<mikehall@mvps.com> wrote:

>You will find in life that arrogance begets arrogance.. your move..

 

As proven by this stripped reply due to your delimiter.

On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 16:05:20 -0800, "Terry R." <F1ComNOSPAM@pobox.com>

wrote:

>On 12/15/2007 12:40 PM On a whim, Mike Hall - MVP pounded out on the

>keyboard

>

>> It is always good to read the 'whole' story..

>>

>

>Yes, that has been my point all along. Thank you. And because you use a

>faulty mail/news client that inserts a bogus delimiter when you choose

>top posting, you effectively remove "the 'whole' story."

 

Well, as he says, "arrogance begets arrogance".

 

Maybe he should rethink that one.

On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 18:43:54 -0600, "Shenan Stanley"

<newshelper@gmail.com> wrote:

><this conversation in its entirety>

>

>http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/browse_frm/thread/1a55b354e9f7b7c/67fd8b1acea441f4?lnk=st&q=#67fd8b1acea441f4

>

 

It was painful enough the first time around.

On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 20:21:08 -0500, Leythos <void@nowhere.lan> wrote:

>In article <eLKwcI0PIHA.3532@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>,

>F1ComNOSPAM@pobox.com says...

>> That is the fault of the poster if they don't snip what isn't relevant

>> to their reply. Sure laziness can cause a lengthy post. But to take

>> out EVERYTHING because of a delimiter being used when top posting is

>> just wrong. Look at your answer above. It looks like you just made a

>> comment out of nowhere.

>

>Not that I want to get in the war here, but Top Posting is a sign of

>disrespect once you've been informed of the proper method. Top posting

>is most common among the ignorant masses and people that believe they

>are special and the norms don't apply to them.

>

>The proper posting method is to assume that all previous posts have not

>been read, that they are unavailable, since usenet can drop posts based

>on many factors, and that the person doing the reply will SNIP parts

>that are unneeded. If this is followed there is almost no need to scroll

>in a windowed reader and the responses properly from from oldest to

>newest, like a book or snail mail would.

 

Lythos, please don't try to use logic and common sense.

 

We need to be talking about feelings and the inborn right to do whatever

we want to.

 

Did you happen to see the South Park episode where the kids banded

together to beat the guy who was taking over the computer game?

 

When I reply to a certain someone in here, the picture of that guy pops

into my head.

There was a point where I almost decided to start bottom posting, but as it

is used as a snipe by people when their other points fail, I will continue

top posting.. call it arrogance if you like..

 

--

Mike Hall - MVP

http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

 

 

 

 

"Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message

news:MPG.21ce478d5de015549898d2@Adfree.usenet.com...

> In article <eLKwcI0PIHA.3532@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>,

> F1ComNOSPAM@pobox.com says...

>> That is the fault of the poster if they don't snip what isn't relevant

>> to their reply. Sure laziness can cause a lengthy post. But to take

>> out EVERYTHING because of a delimiter being used when top posting is

>> just wrong. Look at your answer above. It looks like you just made a

>> comment out of nowhere.

>

> Not that I want to get in the war here, but Top Posting is a sign of

> disrespect once you've been informed of the proper method. Top posting

> is most common among the ignorant masses and people that believe they

> are special and the norms don't apply to them.

>

> The proper posting method is to assume that all previous posts have not

> been read, that they are unavailable, since usenet can drop posts based

> on many factors, and that the person doing the reply will SNIP parts

> that are unneeded. If this is followed there is almost no need to scroll

> in a windowed reader and the responses properly from from oldest to

> newest, like a book or snail mail would.

>

> --

>

> Leythos

> - Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.

> - Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a

> drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"

> spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

"skidz" <nn1@aliot.or> wrote in message news:fjsejk$bmb$1@aioe.org...

> By incessantly posting their sig as a reply to other spam messages.

 

Hey - I live in Australia - I'm going to call Malke for a house call?

 

I find her and most others that post here to be a great resourse.

 

You join the other ratbags who have nothing to add, but disruption. Get a

life.

 

Bill

On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 21:47:00 -0500, "Mike Hall - MVP"

<mikehall@mvps.com> wrote:

>There was a point where I almost decided to start bottom posting, but as it

>is used as a snipe by people when their other points fail, I will continue

>top posting.. call it arrogance if you like..

 

I'll go with your definition.

> Leythos wrote:

>> The proper posting method is to assume that all previous posts have

>> not been read, that they are unavailable, since usenet can drop

>> posts based on many factors, and that the person doing the reply

>> will SNIP parts that are unneeded. If this is followed there is

>> almost no need to scroll in a windowed reader and the responses

>> properly from from oldest to newest, like a book or snail mail would.

 

Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

> There was a point where I almost decided to start bottom posting, but

> as it is used as a snipe by people when their other points fail, I

> will continue top posting.. call it arrogance if you like..

 

To be fair, Leythos wasn't advocating bottom-posting. Contextualized

inline posting, using generous snipping without cutting away too much

"story" is the easiest type of post to follow. It may take a few more

seconds to post this way, but the dividends are certainly worth the tiny

effort.

 

Oh, and in my newsreader (OE along with OE QuoteFix), scrolling is

easily accomplished by pressing the space bar.

 

--

Daave

 

And remember, kiddies, be sure to visit

http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/page2.html

It is interesting to note...

Posters are mostly in two categories.

Those that top post and those that bottom post.

 

What I have often found interesting is that there are those in one of

those groups that are intolerant of those in the other and they are

almost exclusively bottom posters.

That is not to say all bottom posters are intolerant, but the majority

of those intolerant are bottom posters.

Top posters rarely complain about posting methods and instead are

tolerant of others.

 

--

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

http://www3.telus.net/dandemar

 

 

 

"WaIIy" <WaIIy@(nft).invalid> wrote in message

news:s679m397sv5r4o5ugkb31a6q5ev04oqhla@4ax.com...

>

> I'll go with your definition.

"Terry R." <F1ComNOSPAM@pobox.com> wrote:

>> Well, with XanaNews I guess you have to scroll. Not having used it, I

>> can't really say. I know it works with most news readers.

>

> And I can't see that a program so full featured for newsgroups would

> leave out a simple method to get to the end of a message window.

 

A simple method to get to the end of a message makes only sense while

replying. "XanaNews" places the cursor at the bottom of the message in

that case. Isn't that simple enough?

 

--

d-d