A local friend of mine bought a computer which had PCLinuxOS installed. The

very first thing that my friend did was to bring it to me to have Windows

installed.

 

I quote "Can you take this garbage off and put something on that I

recognize?"

 

It is NOT just the fact that Windows is pre-installed that people want it or

use it.

 

--

Mike Hall - MVP

http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

Posting Productively.. http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

 

 

 

"Non scrivetemi" <nonscrivetemi@pboxmix.winstonsmith.info> wrote in message

news:5bfbc70186af1bd9171619c4ee2b8f2f@pboxmix.winstonsmith.info...

> In article <4a77bb00aa9fc68451b3a4f597dc531d@pseudo.borked.net>

> Borked Pseudo Mailed <nobody@pseudo.borked.net> wrote:

>>

>> What percentage of home pc users need windows? My impression is that

>> most home users have a standalone pc, or maybe a small home lan of 2 or

>> 3 machines.

>>

>> What do they use them for? My guess is: email, newsgroups, web browsing.

>> Download pics from the digital camera, maybe download videos from a

>> camcorder and make them into a dvd, use a word processor with a small

>> printer, maybe run a spreadsheet or two. Maybe do some graphics work.

>> Maybe run skype, realplayer. Burn dvds and CDs. Scan documents and

>> pictures.

>>

>> A smaller number may run a web server, or an ftp server.

>>

>> All of those things can be done using linux, which can be downloaded for

>> free. There is no registration, no nagging screens, very little in the

>> way of viruses, worms, trojans.

>>

>> And these things can be done using gui interfaces - no command-line crap.

>>

>> So why does the home pc user continue to put up with windows? Is it that

>> the word about linux still hasn't gotten out?

>>

>

> It's because Windows comes pre-installed.

>

Michael Yardley wrote:

> On Nov 8, 10:46 am, Borked Pseudo Mailed <nob...@pseudo.borked.net>

> wrote:

>

>>What percentage of home pc users need windows? My impression is that

>>most home users have a standalone pc, or maybe a small home lan of 2 or

>>3 machines.

>>

>>What do they use them for? My guess is: email, newsgroups, web browsing.

>>Download pics from the digital camera, maybe download videos from a

>>camcorder and make them into a dvd, use a word processor with a small

>>printer, maybe run a spreadsheet or two. Maybe do some graphics work.

>>Maybe run skype, realplayer. Burn dvds and CDs. Scan documents and

>>pictures.

>>

>>A smaller number may run a web server, or an ftp server.

>>

>>All of those things can be done using linux, which can be downloaded for

>>free. There is no registration, no nagging screens, very little in the

>>way of viruses, worms, trojans.

>>

>>And these things can be done using gui interfaces - no command-line crap.

>>

>>So why does the home pc user continue to put up with windows? Is it that

>>the word about linux still hasn't gotten out?

>>

>>Tell you what: go tohttp://tinyurl.com/3avaq9and download the iso

>>image file. Open up your cd burning program and choose 'burn image file'

>>and create a cd. Then pop the cd in the cd player and reboot and you

>>will get into a 'test' session of the latest version of mepis and can

>>play around with it without affecting your current windows OS. If you

>>like what you see, you can install mepis (and keep windows as well), and

>>then can dual-boot - boot into one or the other OS.

>

>

> I read and made a note of your good post. Couple of months will have

> linux.Girl friend is getting all the money at the moment.I hate Vista.

>

Save you $'s for mental help. It'll do you more good.

Frank

In article <uDv$XokIIHA.4476@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl>

"Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.com> wrote:

>

> A local friend of mine bought a computer which had PCLinuxOS installed. The

> very first thing that my friend did was to bring it to me to have Windows

> installed.

>

> I quote "Can you take this garbage off and put something on that I

> recognize?"

>

> It is NOT just the fact that Windows is pre-installed that people want it or

> use it.

>

> --

> Mike Hall - MVP

> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

> Posting Productively.. http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

>

>

>

> "Non scrivetemi" <nonscrivetemi@pboxmix.winstonsmith.info> wrote in message

> news:5bfbc70186af1bd9171619c4ee2b8f2f@pboxmix.winstonsmith.info...

> > In article <4a77bb00aa9fc68451b3a4f597dc531d@pseudo.borked.net>

> > Borked Pseudo Mailed <nobody@pseudo.borked.net> wrote:

> >>

> >> What percentage of home pc users need windows? My impression is that

> >> most home users have a standalone pc, or maybe a small home lan of 2 or

> >> 3 machines.

> >>

> >> What do they use them for? My guess is: email, newsgroups, web browsing.

> >> Download pics from the digital camera, maybe download videos from a

> >> camcorder and make them into a dvd, use a word processor with a small

> >> printer, maybe run a spreadsheet or two. Maybe do some graphics work.

> >> Maybe run skype, realplayer. Burn dvds and CDs. Scan documents and

> >> pictures.

> >>

> >> A smaller number may run a web server, or an ftp server.

> >>

> >> All of those things can be done using linux, which can be downloaded for

> >> free. There is no registration, no nagging screens, very little in the

> >> way of viruses, worms, trojans.

> >>

> >> And these things can be done using gui interfaces - no command-line crap.

> >>

> >> So why does the home pc user continue to put up with windows? Is it that

> >> the word about linux still hasn't gotten out?

> >>

> >

> > It's because Windows comes pre-installed.

> >

 

You couldn't be more wrong.

Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

> They want an OS which will enable them to play games, any games. They

> want an OS that will enable them to keep in touch with their friends and

> family on Messenger, Yahoo Messenger, MSN Messenger. They want to be

> able to use the same animated smileys as their chat friends use. They

> want an OS which will get them Paltalk, Yahoo chat etc. They want an OS

> which has good support. They want an OS which is easy to use. They want

> a mail system which is supported by their ISP. They want graphics

> programs which are compatible with other people.

>

> What they do not want is some fool coercing them into downloading an ISO

> which when run off CD will have nothing they recognize and run as slow

> as all hell. And the last thing that they need is an OS install which

> will wipe out everything that they have, and where they will have to pay

> somebody to put everything back for them because the Linux OS has left

> their system with a weird format.

>

> Don't you have any sense? Before migrating a user from one platform to

> another, you have to first find out what they use and if it can still be

> used and will give them the same functionality as they already have. You

> don't just leave them with some bland statement like 'there are

> equivalents' because for some things, there are NO equivalents.

>

 

Yeah, WPA and WGA and the other crap that comes with Vista have no

equivalents unless you include the WPA with Office, Norton, McAffee,

Adobe and all the other "big proprietary boys".

 

Most people can get everything they want from Ubuntu except some games

(and that's changing). Most already have XP to play their games so a

dual boot with XP and Ubuntu makes sense and is far cheaper hard ware

wise and, of course, Ubuntu beats the pants off Vista price wise.

 

--

Alias

 

To email me, remove shoes

To whom are you replying?

 

--

Mike Hall - MVP

http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

Posting Productively.. http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

 

 

 

"Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message

news:43135260b0e59e1e1d84b8cb5d16cf8f@dizum.com...

> In article <uDv$XokIIHA.4476@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl>

> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.com> wrote:

>>

>> A local friend of mine bought a computer which had PCLinuxOS installed.

>> The

>> very first thing that my friend did was to bring it to me to have Windows

>> installed.

>>

>> I quote "Can you take this garbage off and put something on that I

>> recognize?"

>>

>> It is NOT just the fact that Windows is pre-installed that people want it

>> or

>> use it.

>>

>> --

>> Mike Hall - MVP

>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

>> Posting Productively.. http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

>>

>>

>>

>> "Non scrivetemi" <nonscrivetemi@pboxmix.winstonsmith.info> wrote in

>> message

>> news:5bfbc70186af1bd9171619c4ee2b8f2f@pboxmix.winstonsmith.info...

>> > In article <4a77bb00aa9fc68451b3a4f597dc531d@pseudo.borked.net>

>> > Borked Pseudo Mailed <nobody@pseudo.borked.net> wrote:

>> >>

>> >> What percentage of home pc users need windows? My impression is that

>> >> most home users have a standalone pc, or maybe a small home lan of 2

>> >> or

>> >> 3 machines.

>> >>

>> >> What do they use them for? My guess is: email, newsgroups, web

>> >> browsing.

>> >> Download pics from the digital camera, maybe download videos from a

>> >> camcorder and make them into a dvd, use a word processor with a small

>> >> printer, maybe run a spreadsheet or two. Maybe do some graphics work.

>> >> Maybe run skype, realplayer. Burn dvds and CDs. Scan documents and

>> >> pictures.

>> >>

>> >> A smaller number may run a web server, or an ftp server.

>> >>

>> >> All of those things can be done using linux, which can be downloaded

>> >> for

>> >> free. There is no registration, no nagging screens, very little in the

>> >> way of viruses, worms, trojans.

>> >>

>> >> And these things can be done using gui interfaces - no command-line

>> >> crap.

>> >>

>> >> So why does the home pc user continue to put up with windows? Is it

>> >> that

>> >> the word about linux still hasn't gotten out?

>> >>

>> >

>> > It's because Windows comes pre-installed.

>> >

>

> You couldn't be more wrong.

>

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 15:58:20 -0500, Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

> A local friend of mine bought a computer which had PCLinuxOS installed. The

> very first thing that my friend did was to bring it to me to have Windows

> installed.

>

> I quote "Can you take this garbage off and put something on that I

> recognize?"

>

 

When is the last time somebody was upset because he couldn't recognize

programs on his desktop? Every OS I have seen makes it easy to know what

icons represent. In fact, that's why icons exist.

 

The last thing I would worry about would be recognizing the icons on the

desktop. I would be worrying about whether or not the computer was doing

what I wanted it to do. Recognizing stuff would be easy.

 

I'm sorry, but it sounds to me like you are making that story up.

 

 

> It is NOT just the fact that Windows is pre-installed that people want it or

> use it.

>

It wasn't about recognizing icons.. there was nothing familiar to the user,

and I most certainly did not make it up. The client clicked on stuff but it

wasn't what she expected to see, plain and simple, and when she asked how to

put stuff like Office 97, Publisher, Encarta etc onto it, all programs which

she already had, I had to tell her that she couldn't do that.

 

You should get out more..

 

 

 

--

Mike Hall - MVP

http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

Posting Productively.. http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

 

 

 

"Digarnx" <digarnx@yahoo.list.org> wrote in message

news:fh0958$469$1@aioe.org...

> On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 15:58:20 -0500, Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>

>> A local friend of mine bought a computer which had PCLinuxOS installed.

>> The

>> very first thing that my friend did was to bring it to me to have Windows

>> installed.

>>

>> I quote "Can you take this garbage off and put something on that I

>> recognize?"

>>

>

> When is the last time somebody was upset because he couldn't recognize

> programs on his desktop? Every OS I have seen makes it easy to know what

> icons represent. In fact, that's why icons exist.

>

> The last thing I would worry about would be recognizing the icons on the

> desktop. I would be worrying about whether or not the computer was doing

> what I wanted it to do. Recognizing stuff would be easy.

>

> I'm sorry, but it sounds to me like you are making that story up.

>

>

>

>> It is NOT just the fact that Windows is pre-installed that people want it

>> or

>> use it.

>>

Alias wrote:

> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>

>> They want an OS which will enable them to play games, any games. They

>> want an OS that will enable them to keep in touch with their friends

>> and family on Messenger, Yahoo Messenger, MSN Messenger. They want to

>> be able to use the same animated smileys as their chat friends use.

>> They want an OS which will get them Paltalk, Yahoo chat etc. They want

>> an OS which has good support. They want an OS which is easy to use.

>> They want a mail system which is supported by their ISP. They want

>> graphics programs which are compatible with other people.

>>

>> What they do not want is some fool coercing them into downloading an

>> ISO which when run off CD will have nothing they recognize and run as

>> slow as all hell. And the last thing that they need is an OS install

>> which will wipe out everything that they have, and where they will

>> have to pay somebody to put everything back for them because the Linux

>> OS has left their system with a weird format.

>>

>> Don't you have any sense? Before migrating a user from one platform to

>> another, you have to first find out what they use and if it can still

>> be used and will give them the same functionality as they already

>> have. You don't just leave them with some bland statement like 'there

>> are equivalents' because for some things, there are NO equivalents.

>>

>

> Yeah, WPA and WGA and the other crap that comes with Vista have no

> equivalents unless you include the WPA with Office, Norton, McAffee,

> Adobe and all the other "big proprietary boys".

>

> Most people can get everything they want from Ubuntu except some games

> (and that's changing). Most already have XP to play their games so a

> dual boot with XP and Ubuntu makes sense and is far cheaper hard ware

> wise and, of course, Ubuntu beats the pants off Vista price wise.

>

 

More of your distortions and lies mr liar? Have you no shame at all?

Is lying all you're good at doing?

How weak and classless you are.

Frank

Frank wrote:

> Alias wrote:

>

>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>>

>>> They want an OS which will enable them to play games, any games. They

>>> want an OS that will enable them to keep in touch with their friends

>>> and family on Messenger, Yahoo Messenger, MSN Messenger. They want to

>>> be able to use the same animated smileys as their chat friends use.

>>> They want an OS which will get them Paltalk, Yahoo chat etc. They

>>> want an OS which has good support. They want an OS which is easy to

>>> use. They want a mail system which is supported by their ISP. They

>>> want graphics programs which are compatible with other people.

>>>

>>> What they do not want is some fool coercing them into downloading an

>>> ISO which when run off CD will have nothing they recognize and run as

>>> slow as all hell. And the last thing that they need is an OS install

>>> which will wipe out everything that they have, and where they will

>>> have to pay somebody to put everything back for them because the

>>> Linux OS has left their system with a weird format.

>>>

>>> Don't you have any sense? Before migrating a user from one platform

>>> to another, you have to first find out what they use and if it can

>>> still be used and will give them the same functionality as they

>>> already have. You don't just leave them with some bland statement

>>> like 'there are equivalents' because for some things, there are NO

>>> equivalents.

>>>

>>

>> Yeah, WPA and WGA and the other crap that comes with Vista have no

>> equivalents unless you include the WPA with Office, Norton, McAffee,

>> Adobe and all the other "big proprietary boys".

>>

>> Most people can get everything they want from Ubuntu except some games

>> (and that's changing). Most already have XP to play their games so a

>> dual boot with XP and Ubuntu makes sense and is far cheaper hard ware

>> wise and, of course, Ubuntu beats the pants off Vista price wise.

>>

>

> More of your distortions and lies mr liar? Have you no shame at all?

> Is lying all you're good at doing?

> How weak and classless you are.

> Frank

 

Embarrassed that you paid so much for nine licenses of crap or do you

protesteth too much out of sheer stubborn stupidity?

 

--

Alias

 

To email me, remove shoes

He doesn't even have Gutsy running.. lol..

 

--

Mike Hall - MVP

http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

Posting Productively.. http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

 

 

 

"Frank" <fb@osspan.clm> wrote in message

news:ePteEpmIIHA.4296@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> Alias wrote:

>

>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>>

>>> They want an OS which will enable them to play games, any games. They

>>> want an OS that will enable them to keep in touch with their friends and

>>> family on Messenger, Yahoo Messenger, MSN Messenger. They want to be

>>> able to use the same animated smileys as their chat friends use. They

>>> want an OS which will get them Paltalk, Yahoo chat etc. They want an OS

>>> which has good support. They want an OS which is easy to use. They want

>>> a mail system which is supported by their ISP. They want graphics

>>> programs which are compatible with other people.

>>>

>>> What they do not want is some fool coercing them into downloading an ISO

>>> which when run off CD will have nothing they recognize and run as slow

>>> as all hell. And the last thing that they need is an OS install which

>>> will wipe out everything that they have, and where they will have to pay

>>> somebody to put everything back for them because the Linux OS has left

>>> their system with a weird format.

>>>

>>> Don't you have any sense? Before migrating a user from one platform to

>>> another, you have to first find out what they use and if it can still be

>>> used and will give them the same functionality as they already have. You

>>> don't just leave them with some bland statement like 'there are

>>> equivalents' because for some things, there are NO equivalents.

>>>

>>

>> Yeah, WPA and WGA and the other crap that comes with Vista have no

>> equivalents unless you include the WPA with Office, Norton, McAffee,

>> Adobe and all the other "big proprietary boys".

>>

>> Most people can get everything they want from Ubuntu except some games

>> (and that's changing). Most already have XP to play their games so a dual

>> boot with XP and Ubuntu makes sense and is far cheaper hard ware wise

>> and, of course, Ubuntu beats the pants off Vista price wise.

>>

>

> More of your distortions and lies mr liar? Have you no shame at all?

> Is lying all you're good at doing?

> How weak and classless you are.

> Frank

Alias wrote:

> Frank wrote:

>

>> Alias wrote:

>>

>>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>>>

>>>> They want an OS which will enable them to play games, any games.

>>>> They want an OS that will enable them to keep in touch with their

>>>> friends and family on Messenger, Yahoo Messenger, MSN Messenger.

>>>> They want to be able to use the same animated smileys as their chat

>>>> friends use. They want an OS which will get them Paltalk, Yahoo chat

>>>> etc. They want an OS which has good support. They want an OS which

>>>> is easy to use. They want a mail system which is supported by their

>>>> ISP. They want graphics programs which are compatible with other

>>>> people.

>>>>

>>>> What they do not want is some fool coercing them into downloading an

>>>> ISO which when run off CD will have nothing they recognize and run

>>>> as slow as all hell. And the last thing that they need is an OS

>>>> install which will wipe out everything that they have, and where

>>>> they will have to pay somebody to put everything back for them

>>>> because the Linux OS has left their system with a weird format.

>>>>

>>>> Don't you have any sense? Before migrating a user from one platform

>>>> to another, you have to first find out what they use and if it can

>>>> still be used and will give them the same functionality as they

>>>> already have. You don't just leave them with some bland statement

>>>> like 'there are equivalents' because for some things, there are NO

>>>> equivalents.

>>>>

>>>

>>> Yeah, WPA and WGA and the other crap that comes with Vista have no

>>> equivalents unless you include the WPA with Office, Norton, McAffee,

>>> Adobe and all the other "big proprietary boys".

>>>

>>> Most people can get everything they want from Ubuntu except some

>>> games (and that's changing). Most already have XP to play their games

>>> so a dual boot with XP and Ubuntu makes sense and is far cheaper hard

>>> ware wise and, of course, Ubuntu beats the pants off Vista price wise.

>>>

>>

>> More of your distortions and lies mr liar? Have you no shame at all?

>> Is lying all you're good at doing?

>> How weak and classless you are.

>> Frank

>

>

> Embarrassed that you paid so much for nine licenses of crap or do you

> protesteth too much out of sheer stubborn stupidity?

>

 

Translation: alias is so broke all the software he has is free and not

worth a sh*t...just like he is.

Frank on the other hand, is a very successful business person and quite

happy to pay for the vol licenses his company uses from numerous

companies, MS just being one of them.

Oh, and there are more than 9 seats involved, just FYI.

Frank

Frank wrote:

> Alias wrote:

>> Frank wrote:

>>

>>> Alias wrote:

>>>

>>>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>>>>

>>>>> They want an OS which will enable them to play games, any games.

>>>>> They want an OS that will enable them to keep in touch with their

>>>>> friends and family on Messenger, Yahoo Messenger, MSN Messenger.

>>>>> They want to be able to use the same animated smileys as their chat

>>>>> friends use. They want an OS which will get them Paltalk, Yahoo

>>>>> chat etc. They want an OS which has good support. They want an OS

>>>>> which is easy to use. They want a mail system which is supported by

>>>>> their ISP. They want graphics programs which are compatible with

>>>>> other people.

>>>>>

>>>>> What they do not want is some fool coercing them into downloading

>>>>> an ISO which when run off CD will have nothing they recognize and

>>>>> run as slow as all hell. And the last thing that they need is an OS

>>>>> install which will wipe out everything that they have, and where

>>>>> they will have to pay somebody to put everything back for them

>>>>> because the Linux OS has left their system with a weird format.

>>>>>

>>>>> Don't you have any sense? Before migrating a user from one platform

>>>>> to another, you have to first find out what they use and if it can

>>>>> still be used and will give them the same functionality as they

>>>>> already have. You don't just leave them with some bland statement

>>>>> like 'there are equivalents' because for some things, there are NO

>>>>> equivalents.

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Yeah, WPA and WGA and the other crap that comes with Vista have no

>>>> equivalents unless you include the WPA with Office, Norton, McAffee,

>>>> Adobe and all the other "big proprietary boys".

>>>>

>>>> Most people can get everything they want from Ubuntu except some

>>>> games (and that's changing). Most already have XP to play their

>>>> games so a dual boot with XP and Ubuntu makes sense and is far

>>>> cheaper hard ware wise and, of course, Ubuntu beats the pants off

>>>> Vista price wise.

>>>>

>>>

>>> More of your distortions and lies mr liar? Have you no shame at all?

>>> Is lying all you're good at doing?

>>> How weak and classless you are.

>>> Frank

>>

>>

>> Embarrassed that you paid so much for nine licenses of crap or do you

>> protesteth too much out of sheer stubborn stupidity?

>>

>

> Translation: alias is so broke all the software he has is free and not

> worth a sh*t...just like he is.

 

No, I don't spend my money foolishly like you do.

 

Now Frank just has to brag:

> Frank on the other hand, is a very successful business person and quite

> happy to pay for the vol licenses his company uses from numerous

> companies, MS just being one of them.

> Oh, and there are more than 9 seats involved, just FYI.

> Frank

 

Sure Frank.

 

--

Alias

 

To email me, remove shoes

J(ohn|ane) Doe wrote:

> In article <3dadad0958d17dbc9b1fd03638cc9474@remailer.metacolo.com>

> Anonymous Sender <anonymous@remailer.metacolo.com> wrote:

> >

> > J (ohn|ane) Doe wrote:

> >

> > > > JBN and Quicksilver.Remailer software will not work on Vista. I had to

> > > > find out the hard way.

> > > > JBN and Quicksilver will run on XP.

> > >

> > > That's funny, because I'm using QuickSilver on Vista.

> >

> > Joke's on you. Some versions of Vista have broken security models that

> > will allow untrusted programs like QS to work and some don't.

>

> Got a URL to back up that claim?

 

Dozens of them... here's just two. The first is a technical description

from MS and the second a more easy to digest summation by a third

party. If you take the easier road make note of the existence of things

like "Rights Management Services Client", Network Access Protection

Client Agent", and "Group Policy support" on a per-edition basis. Those

are some of the things that determine if a given piece of "legacy

software" will be allowed to perform certain functions.

 

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/editions/default.mspx

 

http://www.williamstanek.com/vista/windows_vista.htm

 

In retrospect it's not the versions of Vista that allow untrusted

programs to run that are broken though, it's the versions that don't

permit you to adjust policies to allow them, if you so please.

 

Please pardon the semantics misstep. :)

Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

> He doesn't even have Gutsy running.. lol..

>

 

That will be changing very soon. Stay tuned. I got the CDs today.

 

--

Alias

 

To email me, remove shoes

Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

> It wasn't about recognizing icons.. there was nothing familiar to the user,

 

Only if the user is so dead from the neck up they confuse their right

hand with their left when they turn around.

 

Your average Wintard IOW.

Old news.. I have had Gutsy running since it first became available.. now if

I could only find a use for it!! :-)

 

--

Mike Hall - MVP

http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

Posting Productively.. http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

 

 

 

"Alias" <iamalias@gmailshoes.com> wrote in message

news:fh0e26$g57$3@aioe.org...

> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>> He doesn't even have Gutsy running.. lol..

>>

>

> That will be changing very soon. Stay tuned. I got the CDs today.

>

> --

> Alias

>

> To email me, remove shoes

In article <u8xRrXmIIHA.4592@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>

"Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.com> wrote:

>

> To whom are you replying?

>

> --

> Mike Hall - MVP

> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

> Posting Productively.. http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

>

>

>

> "Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message

> news:43135260b0e59e1e1d84b8cb5d16cf8f@dizum.com...

> > In article <uDv$XokIIHA.4476@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl>

> > "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.com> wrote:

> >>

> >> A local friend of mine bought a computer which had PCLinuxOS installed.

> >> The

> >> very first thing that my friend did was to bring it to me to have Windows

> >> installed.

> >>

> >> I quote "Can you take this garbage off and put something on that I

> >> recognize?"

> >>

> >> It is NOT just the fact that Windows is pre-installed that people want it

> >> or

> >> use it.

> >>

> >> --

> >> Mike Hall - MVP

> >> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

> >> Posting Productively.. http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> "Non scrivetemi" <nonscrivetemi@pboxmix.winstonsmith.info> wrote in

> >> message

> >> news:5bfbc70186af1bd9171619c4ee2b8f2f@pboxmix.winstonsmith.info...

> >> > In article <4a77bb00aa9fc68451b3a4f597dc531d@pseudo.borked.net>

> >> > Borked Pseudo Mailed <nobody@pseudo.borked.net> wrote:

> >> >>

> >> >> What percentage of home pc users need windows? My impression is that

> >> >> most home users have a standalone pc, or maybe a small home lan of 2

> >> >> or

> >> >> 3 machines.

> >> >>

> >> >> What do they use them for? My guess is: email, newsgroups, web

> >> >> browsing.

> >> >> Download pics from the digital camera, maybe download videos from a

> >> >> camcorder and make them into a dvd, use a word processor with a small

> >> >> printer, maybe run a spreadsheet or two. Maybe do some graphics work.

> >> >> Maybe run skype, realplayer. Burn dvds and CDs. Scan documents and

> >> >> pictures.

> >> >>

> >> >> A smaller number may run a web server, or an ftp server.

> >> >>

> >> >> All of those things can be done using linux, which can be downloaded

> >> >> for

> >> >> free. There is no registration, no nagging screens, very little in the

> >> >> way of viruses, worms, trojans.

> >> >>

> >> >> And these things can be done using gui interfaces - no command-line

> >> >> crap.

> >> >>

> >> >> So why does the home pc user continue to put up with windows? Is it

> >> >> that

> >> >> the word about linux still hasn't gotten out?

> >> >>

> >> >

> >> > It's because Windows comes pre-installed.

> >> >

> >

> > You couldn't be more wrong.

> >

 

Either you don't have a clue or need a real newsreader.

Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

> They want an OS which will enable them to play games, any games.

 

I know nothing about computer games but suspect that windows wins hands

down.

 

> They

> want an OS that will enable them to keep in touch with their friends and

> family on Messenger, Yahoo Messenger, MSN Messenger.

 

There are scads of utilities - icq and the like, that come with linux

that do that. Skype is another.

> They want to be

> able to use the same animated smileys as their chat friends use.

 

I have the feeling you are thinking of kids as users. I was thinking of

the average adult.

 

> They

> want an OS which will get them Paltalk, Yahoo chat etc. They want an OS

> which has good support.

 

Plenty of linux-oriented newsgroups. As much support as is provided for

windows.

 

But I am thinking of people who want to use the OS out of the box, and

have the things I mentioned in my post up and running. You don't need

much support to get them running - just click on the icon.

 

> They want an OS which is easy to use.

 

Then linux wins hands down. The number of nag screens, the jumping

through hoops for registration, the need to download patches

incessantly, and this 'digital rights management' stuff, the constant

worry about viruses, trojans, worms. All that windows nonsense.

Unbelievable. It makes for an awful experience when all you want to do

is use the damn computer.

 

Linux is rational, lean, efficient, and VERY EASY to install and use. I

am thinking especially of the latest version of Mepis that I mentioned

in my earlier post. Some linux distros are more geek-oriented. I don't

go near them because I am an average user. Stick with Mepis, or, if you

like, try pclinuxos - very similar to Mepis. But Mepis is my preference.

 

> They want

> a mail system which is supported by their ISP.

 

If you mean opening a program like Mozilla thunderbird and reading mail

and newsgroups and sending news messages and email messages, which is

what 99.9 percent of computer users want to do - all of that is

compatible with all isps. The protocols pop3 and smtp and nntp are

universal.

 

And if you don't like Mozilla thunderbird, there are several email and

news reading programs - nice, gui programs that look like outlook

express and free agent. They are as easy to set up as outlook or agent.

 

> They want graphics

> programs which are compatible with other people.

 

All I know is that you can use very good graphics programs like Gimp,

Xara, and Blender, and save the results in universally-used formats.

>

> What they do not want is some fool coercing them into downloading an ISO

> which when run off CD will have nothing they recognize and run as slow

> as all hell.

 

Now now. The 'live cd' (which windows should adopt) is a great way for

somebody to try linux to see what it is like, and they will see programs

like Firefox and Mozilla and Skype. No problem recognizing them, and

what they don't recognize immediately will take them about 5 seconds to

recognize as the equivalent to some windows program they are familiar with.

 

And of course once they install linux, it is speedy - faster then

windows usually because it doesn't have the bloated programs that

windows runs.

 

Speaking of bloated programs, Nero, a popular windows cd-burning program

weighs in at several hundred megabtyes. Correct me if I'm wrong about

that, but I don't think I am.

 

Compare that with K3b, which comes installed when you install Mepis. It

weighs in at about 9 megabytes.

 

K3b does everything that 99 percent of users will ever want. So what is

it about Windows that encourages vendors to write such bloated

monstrosities?

 

Crap like that was one of the reasons I couldn't live any longer with

windows.

 

And speaking of programs, I have at my fingertips a database listing

about 23000 programs. I can install any of them with a few keystrokes -

the program I want is downloaded from a 'repository', my system is

checked for additional programs (equivalent to windows dlls and drivers)

that may be needed to support it, and these are also downloaded if

needed. Then the programs are installed.

 

With windows, I used to go to some place like tucows or download.com,

hunt for the kind of program I want, and then look to see if it was

free, or if there was at least a trial. What a pain that was. And what I

usually ended up with was some bloated thing that I only needed 20

percent of the rest was junk as far as I was concerned.

 

With linux I get 23000 programs for the price of a free download. And

the only searching I do is by the search function that looks through the

database index.

 

> And the last thing that they need is an OS install which

> will wipe out everything that they have, and where they will have to pay

> somebody to put everything back for them because the Linux OS has left

> their system with a weird format.

 

It is obvious you have never installed linux. It lets you use an unused

partition, or create a partition, and installs beside windows (if you

really want to keep windows). Then, as I said, you can dual-boot and get

into windows or linux.

 

Nobody has to pay anybody when they use linux!

>

> Don't you have any sense? Before migrating a user from one platform to

> another, you have to first find out what they use and if it can still be

> used and will give them the same functionality as they already have.

 

Now you sound like you are talking about the IT manager of a Fortune 500

company, who is thinking of making the switch. I am talking about the

average user of a pc.

 

But it's not a problem. Use the live cd and play around with linux

before installing it. Believe me, for 99.9 percent of users, linux will

have all the functionality that they need. It will take them about 10

minutes to realize that.

 

It didn't even take me that long when I first booted up with a live cd.

I knew right away I had been a damn fool to stick with an OS, windows,

that I disliked because of its bloat and irrationality, for want of a

better word.

 

I had stuck with it because I thought linux was some

command-line-driven, difficult to use OS, that was for geeks only and

that windows was all there was. Maybe it was that at one time, but now

it is for mom and pop and grandmom and granddad. It is VERY EASY to

install and use. It is no longer a geek thing, there is nothing 'weird'

about it it is an average guy thing, it is MAINSTREAM.

No, not 'Wintards'.. just regular non-tech people wanting a computer, honest

and respectful people who have nothing in common with you..

 

 

--

Mike Hall - MVP

http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

Posting Productively.. http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

 

 

 

"Anonymous" <nobody@remailer.paranoici.org> wrote in message

news:334239ad5a26ae411573f682f3d5db45@remailer.paranoici.org...

> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>

>> It wasn't about recognizing icons.. there was nothing familiar to the

>> user,

>

> Only if the user is so dead from the neck up they confuse their right

> hand with their left when they turn around.

>

> Your average Wintard IOW.

>

I have some killfiled and the last piece of text to which the answer applied

was not mine.

 

You need to get out more..

 

--

Mike Hall - MVP

http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

Posting Productively.. http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

 

 

 

"Anonymous Remailer (austria)" <mixmaster@remailer.privacy.at> wrote in

message news:7b397dbe8cbc74974f890a54c8702d7a@remailer.privacy.at...

>

> In article <u8xRrXmIIHA.4592@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>

> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.com> wrote:

>>

>> To whom are you replying?

>>

>> --

>> Mike Hall - MVP

>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

>> Posting Productively.. http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

>>

>>

>>

>> "Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message

>> news:43135260b0e59e1e1d84b8cb5d16cf8f@dizum.com...

>> > In article <uDv$XokIIHA.4476@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl>

>> > "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.com> wrote:

>> >>

>> >> A local friend of mine bought a computer which had PCLinuxOS

>> >> installed.

>> >> The

>> >> very first thing that my friend did was to bring it to me to have

>> >> Windows

>> >> installed.

>> >>

>> >> I quote "Can you take this garbage off and put something on that I

>> >> recognize?"

>> >>

>> >> It is NOT just the fact that Windows is pre-installed that people want

>> >> it

>> >> or

>> >> use it.

>> >>

>> >> --

>> >> Mike Hall - MVP

>> >> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

>> >> Posting Productively.. http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> "Non scrivetemi" <nonscrivetemi@pboxmix.winstonsmith.info> wrote in

>> >> message

>> >> news:5bfbc70186af1bd9171619c4ee2b8f2f@pboxmix.winstonsmith.info...

>> >> > In article <4a77bb00aa9fc68451b3a4f597dc531d@pseudo.borked.net>

>> >> > Borked Pseudo Mailed <nobody@pseudo.borked.net> wrote:

>> >> >>

>> >> >> What percentage of home pc users need windows? My impression is

>> >> >> that

>> >> >> most home users have a standalone pc, or maybe a small home lan of

>> >> >> 2

>> >> >> or

>> >> >> 3 machines.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> What do they use them for? My guess is: email, newsgroups, web

>> >> >> browsing.

>> >> >> Download pics from the digital camera, maybe download videos from a

>> >> >> camcorder and make them into a dvd, use a word processor with a

>> >> >> small

>> >> >> printer, maybe run a spreadsheet or two. Maybe do some graphics

>> >> >> work.

>> >> >> Maybe run skype, realplayer. Burn dvds and CDs. Scan documents and

>> >> >> pictures.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> A smaller number may run a web server, or an ftp server.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> All of those things can be done using linux, which can be

>> >> >> downloaded

>> >> >> for

>> >> >> free. There is no registration, no nagging screens, very little in

>> >> >> the

>> >> >> way of viruses, worms, trojans.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> And these things can be done using gui interfaces - no command-line

>> >> >> crap.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> So why does the home pc user continue to put up with windows? Is it

>> >> >> that

>> >> >> the word about linux still hasn't gotten out?

>> >> >>

>> >> >

>> >> > It's because Windows comes pre-installed.

>> >> >

>> >

>> > You couldn't be more wrong.

>> >

>

> Either you don't have a clue or need a real newsreader.

>

Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

> To whom are you replying?

 

To whom is WHO replying you message-body-in-your-sig ignorant Wintard?

Alias wrote:

> Frank wrote:

>

>> Alias wrote:

>>

>>> Frank wrote:

>>>

>>>> Alias wrote:

>>>>

>>>>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>>> They want an OS which will enable them to play games, any games.

>>>>>> They want an OS that will enable them to keep in touch with their

>>>>>> friends and family on Messenger, Yahoo Messenger, MSN Messenger.

>>>>>> They want to be able to use the same animated smileys as their

>>>>>> chat friends use. They want an OS which will get them Paltalk,

>>>>>> Yahoo chat etc. They want an OS which has good support. They want

>>>>>> an OS which is easy to use. They want a mail system which is

>>>>>> supported by their ISP. They want graphics programs which are

>>>>>> compatible with other people.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> What they do not want is some fool coercing them into downloading

>>>>>> an ISO which when run off CD will have nothing they recognize and

>>>>>> run as slow as all hell. And the last thing that they need is an

>>>>>> OS install which will wipe out everything that they have, and

>>>>>> where they will have to pay somebody to put everything back for

>>>>>> them because the Linux OS has left their system with a weird format.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Don't you have any sense? Before migrating a user from one

>>>>>> platform to another, you have to first find out what they use and

>>>>>> if it can still be used and will give them the same functionality

>>>>>> as they already have. You don't just leave them with some bland

>>>>>> statement like 'there are equivalents' because for some things,

>>>>>> there are NO equivalents.

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Yeah, WPA and WGA and the other crap that comes with Vista have no

>>>>> equivalents unless you include the WPA with Office, Norton,

>>>>> McAffee, Adobe and all the other "big proprietary boys".

>>>>>

>>>>> Most people can get everything they want from Ubuntu except some

>>>>> games (and that's changing). Most already have XP to play their

>>>>> games so a dual boot with XP and Ubuntu makes sense and is far

>>>>> cheaper hard ware wise and, of course, Ubuntu beats the pants off

>>>>> Vista price wise.

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>> More of your distortions and lies mr liar? Have you no shame at all?

>>>> Is lying all you're good at doing?

>>>> How weak and classless you are.

>>>> Frank

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Embarrassed that you paid so much for nine licenses of crap or do you

>>> protesteth too much out of sheer stubborn stupidity?

>>>

>>

>> Translation: alias is so broke all the software he has is free and not

>> worth a sh*t...just like he is.

>

>

> No, I don't spend my money foolishly like you do.

>

> Now Frank just has to brag:

>

>> Frank on the other hand, is a very successful business person and

>> quite happy to pay for the vol licenses his company uses from numerous

>> companies, MS just being one of them.

>> Oh, and there are more than 9 seats involved, just FYI.

>> Frank

>

>

> Sure Frank.

>

Translation: alas has no money to spend. He's one broke lying as*hole

proly living off his poor realities in spain where he's hiding from the

US authorities who are looking for his sorry criminal as*. He proly buys

bogus passports from the criminal underground in spain. Proy true cause

we all know him as a pathological liar.

Frank

Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

> A local friend of mine bought a computer which had PCLinuxOS installed. The

> very first thing that my friend did was to bring it to me to have Windows

> installed.

>

> I quote "Can you take this garbage off and put something on that I

> recognize?"

>

> It is NOT just the fact that Windows is pre-installed that people want it or

> use it.

 

You just blatantly contradicted yourself.

 

Your alleged local friend didn't want Linux replaced for technical

reasons, or based on any sort of compatibility issues. No, the illogic

was "something I recognize", and that, my friend, is 100% an effect of

your friend having been force fed Windoze in the past. Had he been

weaned on Linux machines the story would have been precisely the

opposite.

Most if not all of my local clients haven't the first clue about newsgroups,

but I do know that they help each other out where they can,and if one of

them had Linux, that person would get no help.

 

I am well aware how to install Linux and most other operating systems, but

the vast majority of regular users do not. The programs supplied with Linux,

while they may do a similar job are not what kids, families and silver

surfers want.

 

People run the OS where the selection of programs suits them and are easy to

obtain. Here in Canada, that would be Staples, FutureShop, Tiger Direct etc.

The 23000 programs you talk of are NOT what is seen in the major stores, NOT

what is seen advertized.

 

Migrating a company or a single user is the same. Unless one can set them up

with what they want, the features they want, it is impossible to sell a

different platform.

 

Free is not enough on its own, and these people should not be insulted just

because they don't think the way you do.

 

--

Mike Hall - MVP

http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

Posting Productively.. http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

 

 

 

"Borked Pseudo Mailed" <nobody@pseudo.borked.net> wrote in message

news:5a85fbfeb34b5c42d40c2930e21d00d7@pseudo.borked.net...

> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>> They want an OS which will enable them to play games, any games.

>

> I know nothing about computer games but suspect that windows wins hands

> down.

>

>

>> They want an OS that will enable them to keep in touch with their friends

>> and family on Messenger, Yahoo Messenger, MSN Messenger.

>

> There are scads of utilities - icq and the like, that come with linux that

> do that. Skype is another.

>

>> They want to be able to use the same animated smileys as their chat

>> friends use.

>

> I have the feeling you are thinking of kids as users. I was thinking of

> the average adult.

>

>

>> They want an OS which will get them Paltalk, Yahoo chat etc. They want an

>> OS which has good support.

>

> Plenty of linux-oriented newsgroups. As much support as is provided for

> windows.

>

> But I am thinking of people who want to use the OS out of the box, and

> have the things I mentioned in my post up and running. You don't need much

> support to get them running - just click on the icon.

>

>

>> They want an OS which is easy to use.

>

> Then linux wins hands down. The number of nag screens, the jumping through

> hoops for registration, the need to download patches incessantly, and this

> 'digital rights management' stuff, the constant worry about viruses,

> trojans, worms. All that windows nonsense. Unbelievable. It makes for an

> awful experience when all you want to do is use the damn computer.

>

> Linux is rational, lean, efficient, and VERY EASY to install and use. I am

> thinking especially of the latest version of Mepis that I mentioned in my

> earlier post. Some linux distros are more geek-oriented. I don't go near

> them because I am an average user. Stick with Mepis, or, if you like, try

> pclinuxos - very similar to Mepis. But Mepis is my preference.

>

>

>> They want a mail system which is supported by their ISP.

>

> If you mean opening a program like Mozilla thunderbird and reading mail

> and newsgroups and sending news messages and email messages, which is what

> 99.9 percent of computer users want to do - all of that is compatible with

> all isps. The protocols pop3 and smtp and nntp are universal.

>

> And if you don't like Mozilla thunderbird, there are several email and

> news reading programs - nice, gui programs that look like outlook express

> and free agent. They are as easy to set up as outlook or agent.

>

>

>> They want graphics programs which are compatible with other people.

>

> All I know is that you can use very good graphics programs like Gimp,

> Xara, and Blender, and save the results in universally-used formats.

>

>>

>> What they do not want is some fool coercing them into downloading an ISO

>> which when run off CD will have nothing they recognize and run as slow as

>> all hell.

>

> Now now. The 'live cd' (which windows should adopt) is a great way for

> somebody to try linux to see what it is like, and they will see programs

> like Firefox and Mozilla and Skype. No problem recognizing them, and what

> they don't recognize immediately will take them about 5 seconds to

> recognize as the equivalent to some windows program they are familiar

> with.

>

> And of course once they install linux, it is speedy - faster then windows

> usually because it doesn't have the bloated programs that windows runs.

>

> Speaking of bloated programs, Nero, a popular windows cd-burning program

> weighs in at several hundred megabtyes. Correct me if I'm wrong about

> that, but I don't think I am.

>

> Compare that with K3b, which comes installed when you install Mepis. It

> weighs in at about 9 megabytes.

>

> K3b does everything that 99 percent of users will ever want. So what is it

> about Windows that encourages vendors to write such bloated monstrosities?

>

> Crap like that was one of the reasons I couldn't live any longer with

> windows.

>

> And speaking of programs, I have at my fingertips a database listing about

> 23000 programs. I can install any of them with a few keystrokes - the

> program I want is downloaded from a 'repository', my system is checked for

> additional programs (equivalent to windows dlls and drivers) that may be

> needed to support it, and these are also downloaded if needed. Then the

> programs are installed.

>

> With windows, I used to go to some place like tucows or download.com, hunt

> for the kind of program I want, and then look to see if it was free, or if

> there was at least a trial. What a pain that was. And what I usually ended

> up with was some bloated thing that I only needed 20 percent of the rest

> was junk as far as I was concerned.

>

> With linux I get 23000 programs for the price of a free download. And the

> only searching I do is by the search function that looks through the

> database index.

>

>

>> And the last thing that they need is an OS install which will wipe out

>> everything that they have, and where they will have to pay somebody to

>> put everything back for them because the Linux OS has left their system

>> with a weird format.

>

> It is obvious you have never installed linux. It lets you use an unused

> partition, or create a partition, and installs beside windows (if you

> really want to keep windows). Then, as I said, you can dual-boot and get

> into windows or linux.

>

> Nobody has to pay anybody when they use linux!

>

>>

>> Don't you have any sense? Before migrating a user from one platform to

>> another, you have to first find out what they use and if it can still be

>> used and will give them the same functionality as they already have.

>

> Now you sound like you are talking about the IT manager of a Fortune 500

> company, who is thinking of making the switch. I am talking about the

> average user of a pc.

>

> But it's not a problem. Use the live cd and play around with linux before

> installing it. Believe me, for 99.9 percent of users, linux will have all

> the functionality that they need. It will take them about 10 minutes to

> realize that.

>

> It didn't even take me that long when I first booted up with a live cd. I

> knew right away I had been a damn fool to stick with an OS, windows, that

> I disliked because of its bloat and irrationality, for want of a better

> word.

>

> I had stuck with it because I thought linux was some command-line-driven,

> difficult to use OS, that was for geeks only and that windows was all

> there was. Maybe it was that at one time, but now it is for mom and pop

> and grandmom and granddad. It is VERY EASY to install and use. It is no

> longer a geek thing, there is nothing 'weird' about it it is an average

> guy thing, it is MAINSTREAM.

>

But they were not raised on Linux, and who really cares other than people

like you?

 

If you want to 'sell' Linux, you should try being nice to your potential

customers, because insulting them would get you a slap.

 

--

Mike Hall - MVP

http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

Posting Productively.. http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

 

 

 

"Anonymous" <nobody@remailer.paranoici.org> wrote in message

news:2bf157c591bb29e8cda7eee0792d05af@remailer.paranoici.org...

> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>

>> A local friend of mine bought a computer which had PCLinuxOS installed.

>> The

>> very first thing that my friend did was to bring it to me to have Windows

>> installed.

>>

>> I quote "Can you take this garbage off and put something on that I

>> recognize?"

>>

>> It is NOT just the fact that Windows is pre-installed that people want it

>> or

>> use it.

>

> You just blatantly contradicted yourself.

>

> Your alleged local friend didn't want Linux replaced for technical

> reasons, or based on any sort of compatibility issues. No, the illogic

> was "something I recognize", and that, my friend, is 100% an effect of

> your friend having been force fed Windoze in the past. Had he been

> weaned on Linux machines the story would have been precisely the

> opposite.

>