On Oct 20, 10:55 pm, heather.ban...@gmail.com wrote:

> Linux users love to talk about how Micorsoft sabotoges the Linux

> movement but they forget one important aspect of Linux, it is FREE....

>

> Yes Linux, and all of it's *wonderful* applications, is free every day

> of the week.

>

> So why are so few people using Linux?

> People are free to choose.

> Nobody is holding their feet to the fire.

> So why don't they choose Linux?

> Why are they willing to pay $200 for Windows and another $200 for

> Office instead of using Linux and OpenOffice for free?

>

> Why?

>

> Think about what would happen if Sony decided to give away TVs for

> free.

> How long would RCA be in business?

> A week maybe?

>

> Yet Linux is free all the time and it seems nobody is taking the bait.

> Why?

>

> That, in and of itself says all that needs to be said about Linux.

>

> When it can't be given away for free, it must really suck.

> And Linux does.

> Suck that is.

 

<Linux is crap because it can't even be given away,

Re: Linux is FREE....Where are the users??????????????? LINUX isFREE...Where are it's users???????????????????

 

graeme wrote:

> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:57:24 -0700, heather.banger wrote:

> (snips)

>> <Linux is crap because it can't even be given away,

>

> Try getting official Red Hat for free.

Re: Linux is FREE....Where are the users??????????????? LINUX is F

 

I think you guys need to understand a little more before you attack others,

linux is free and used by a lot of people, However because microsoft has an

agrement with those who make the computters to use their software it is very

hard to find a computer that does not have windows on it, and the everyday

user does not wish to take the time or hassle to remove one OS and replace it

with another. I ask you this if microsoft made cars would you drive one of

there lastest? I for one would not as every OS MS has ever released has been

full of known bugs and holes if they were cars they would crash and kill

people before leaveing the show room. What is worse is MS it removeing choose

from the user by not allowing programes to run on there OS by not allowing

people to remove the OS from there computers (as a computer tech I have

noticed that vista makes it a lot harder to formate a disk and install

another OS).

Just because MS forces people to use a sunstandered OS by their deal with

those who make the computers does not mean it is the best or only OS being

used.

Re: Linux is FREE....Where are the users??????????????? LINUX isF

 

souls wrote:

> I think you guys need to understand a little more before you attack others,

> linux is free and used by a lot of people, However because microsoft has an

> agrement with those who make the computters to use their software it is very

> hard to find a computer that does not have windows on it, and the everyday

> user does not wish to take the time or hassle to remove one OS and replace it

> with another. I ask you this if microsoft made cars would you drive one of

> there lastest? I for one would not as every OS MS has ever released has been

> full of known bugs and holes if they were cars they would crash and kill

> people before leaveing the show room. What is worse is MS it removeing choose

> from the user by not allowing programes to run on there OS by not allowing

> people to remove the OS from there computers (as a computer tech I have

> noticed that vista makes it a lot harder to formate a disk and install

> another OS).

> Just because MS forces people to use a sunstandered OS by their deal with

> those who make the computers does not mean it is the best or only OS being

> used.

 

 

I tend to agree, especially about the cars. I think MS have recently

made some bad business decisions with regard to customer loyalty and

respect, and my feeling is that this is actively pushing people to do as

you said, take the time and hassle to look elsewhere.

 

At the same time Linux is producing try before you buy style cd releases

that will help people along this road. Don't think MS can fight this,

they must stay ahead of it, and frankly Vista has not done that. That's

not to say it is a bad OS, it certainly is not, but it does not "Appear"

to the ordinary user to offer and great leap forward and it costs money.

At this time it is not better at games than XP, it may get there but

that relies on the games writers using DX10 and there's no way XP users

can upgrade, besides which on the same hardware Vista runs slower with a

lower frame rate.

Re: Linux is FREE....Where are the users??????????????? LINUX isFREE...Where are it's users???????????????????

 

On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:57:24 -0700, heather.banger wrote:

(snips)

> <Linux is crap because it can't even be given away,

 

Try getting official Red Hat for free.

Re: Linux is FREE....Where are the users??????????????? LINUX is F

 

"it is very hard to find a computer that does not have windows on it"

I would disagree with this statement.

But then that also depends on how vague you intended it.

 

"microsoft has an agrement"

Another vague statement.

Since the same manufacturers that provide Windows also provide Linux,

exactly what does it mean?

Obviously the manufacturers are not prohibited from installing what

the manufacturer wants.

 

"if microsoft made cars..."

Meaningless since the products are not comparable this way.

Not to mention your irrelevant assumption.

 

Dell sells computers with Linux now as they did in the past.

Only time will tell if Linux lasts longer this time and is here to

stay.

So obviously other major OEMs could also do so if they wanted.

Many local shops will sell computers with any operating system

desired, as long as it is available.

Have you asked a local shop?

What have they said?

How about a major OEM?

And what did they say?

If enough want it, Linux will be available.

Of course if few ask and simply blame the lack of availability on the

competition, then expect nothing.

 

"...it is very hard to find a computer that does not have windows..."

If buyers are only looking in specific places, then yes, you are

correct.

But if they look, just about any operating system is available.

Linux is easy to find on computers.

 

"Just because MS forces people..."

Not true, no one is forced by anyone.

I can choose the operating system installed on my computer and so can

you.

Everyone can choose.

 

--

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

http://www3.telus.net/dandemar

http://www.dts-l.org

 

 

"souls" <souls@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:DFC4C23F-E811-4AEA-8633-98D16D34AAB0@microsoft.com...

>I think you guys need to understand a little more before you attack

>others,

> linux is free and used by a lot of people, However because microsoft

> has an

> agrement with those who make the computters to use their software it

> is very

> hard to find a computer that does not have windows on it, and the

> everyday

> user does not wish to take the time or hassle to remove one OS and

> replace it

> with another. I ask you this if microsoft made cars would you drive

> one of

> there lastest? I for one would not as every OS MS has ever released

> has been

> full of known bugs and holes if they were cars they would crash and

> kill

> people before leaveing the show room. What is worse is MS it

> removeing choose

> from the user by not allowing programes to run on there OS by not

> allowing

> people to remove the OS from there computers (as a computer tech I

> have

> noticed that vista makes it a lot harder to formate a disk and

> install

> another OS).

> Just because MS forces people to use a sunstandered OS by their deal

> with

> those who make the computers does not mean it is the best or only OS

> being

> used.

Re: Linux is FREE....Where are the users??????????????? LINUX is F

 

A sweep of local major stores carrying computers showed that NOT ONE had

computers using Linux for sale "off the shelf"

Order? Yes, most would order, but not give a short delivery date.

 

At this point, Vista for all practical purposes, is at about the same place

that XP was several years ago. (did not always work well on many existing

computers, had a lot of loose ends that caused problems with some existing

major and minor software apps, existing hardware and drivers, etc.)

 

The refusal of an "all in one" printer mfr to provide updated drivers and

possibly key applications software is just one example that may cause a user

or even a whole company to delay or decline to upgrade to Vista.

 

I looked at some major users (companies) in my area--

Most intend to stay with win2K for now.

about 20-30% of the older printers would loose capability due to driver

compatability issues with Vista.

about 30% of the existing scanners were older units, and had no drivers

available under Vista. These were usually older SCSI based scanners, that

were top of line several years ago. Many might be usable if third party

software such as Viewscan were purchased by users.

Many individual users complained that the printing time from send to printer

to document complete has kept increasing as windows became larger and

"bloated" from win 3.11 to Vista. (using the same laser printers.)

 

 

 

"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote in message

news:u0BhvZ6EIHA.4140@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> "it is very hard to find a computer that does not have windows on it"

> I would disagree with this statement.

> But then that also depends on how vague you intended it.

>

> "microsoft has an agrement"

> Another vague statement.

> Since the same manufacturers that provide Windows also provide Linux,

> exactly what does it mean?

> Obviously the manufacturers are not prohibited from installing what

> the manufacturer wants.

>

> "if microsoft made cars..."

> Meaningless since the products are not comparable this way.

> Not to mention your irrelevant assumption.

>

> Dell sells computers with Linux now as they did in the past.

> Only time will tell if Linux lasts longer this time and is here to

> stay.

> So obviously other major OEMs could also do so if they wanted.

> Many local shops will sell computers with any operating system

> desired, as long as it is available.

> Have you asked a local shop?

> What have they said?

> How about a major OEM?

> And what did they say?

> If enough want it, Linux will be available.

> Of course if few ask and simply blame the lack of availability on the

> competition, then expect nothing.

>

> "...it is very hard to find a computer that does not have windows..."

> If buyers are only looking in specific places, then yes, you are

> correct.

> But if they look, just about any operating system is available.

> Linux is easy to find on computers.

>

> "Just because MS forces people..."

> Not true, no one is forced by anyone.

> I can choose the operating system installed on my computer and so can

> you.

> Everyone can choose.

>

> --

> Jupiter Jones [MVP]

> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar

> http://www.dts-l.org

>

>

> "souls" <souls@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> news:DFC4C23F-E811-4AEA-8633-98D16D34AAB0@microsoft.com...

> >I think you guys need to understand a little more before you attack

> >others,

> > linux is free and used by a lot of people, However because microsoft

> > has an

> > agrement with those who make the computters to use their software it

> > is very

> > hard to find a computer that does not have windows on it, and the

> > everyday

> > user does not wish to take the time or hassle to remove one OS and

> > replace it

> > with another. I ask you this if microsoft made cars would you drive

> > one of

> > there lastest? I for one would not as every OS MS has ever released

> > has been

> > full of known bugs and holes if they were cars they would crash and

> > kill

> > people before leaveing the show room. What is worse is MS it

> > removeing choose

> > from the user by not allowing programes to run on there OS by not

> > allowing

> > people to remove the OS from there computers (as a computer tech I

> > have

> > noticed that vista makes it a lot harder to formate a disk and

> > install

> > another OS).

> > Just because MS forces people to use a sunstandered OS by their deal

> > with

> > those who make the computers does not mean it is the best or only OS

> > being

> > used.

>

Re: Linux is FREE....Where are the users??????????????? LINUX is F

 

"local major stores"

Probably true and AFAIK, it seems true here as well.

But what about local computer shops?

Some here will sell computers with Linux.

Dell will, possibly others.

 

If you only look in a specific type of store, "major stores carrying

computers", you are limiting your choices by not looking.

There are many other places to buy other than those.

 

"The refusal of an "all in one" printer mfr to provide..."

That is an example of why people need to research Windows Vista

compatibility with essential hardware and software before purchasing

Windows Vista.

To a large degree, the compatibility of hardware and software is

known.

As you suggested, this is not new to Windows Vista.

It also applies to other operating systems from other manufacturers.

 

--

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

http://www3.telus.net/dandemar

http://www.dts-l.org

 

 

"Chuck" <cdkuder@msn.com> wrote in message

news:eoETbr6EIHA.6120@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>A sweep of local major stores carrying computers showed that NOT ONE

>had

> computers using Linux for sale "off the shelf"

> Order? Yes, most would order, but not give a short delivery date.

>

> At this point, Vista for all practical purposes, is at about the

> same place

> that XP was several years ago. (did not always work well on many

> existing

> computers, had a lot of loose ends that caused problems with some

> existing

> major and minor software apps, existing hardware and drivers, etc.)

>

> The refusal of an "all in one" printer mfr to provide updated

> drivers and

> possibly key applications software is just one example that may

> cause a user

> or even a whole company to delay or decline to upgrade to Vista.

>

> I looked at some major users (companies) in my area--

> Most intend to stay with win2K for now.

> about 20-30% of the older printers would loose capability due to

> driver

> compatability issues with Vista.

> about 30% of the existing scanners were older units, and had no

> drivers

> available under Vista. These were usually older SCSI based scanners,

> that

> were top of line several years ago. Many might be usable if third

> party

> software such as Viewscan were purchased by users.

> Many individual users complained that the printing time from send to

> printer

> to document complete has kept increasing as windows became larger

> and

> "bloated" from win 3.11 to Vista. (using the same laser printers.)

Re: Linux is FREE....Where are the users??????????????? LINUX is F

 

The local Ma&Pa computer stores do not compete with any of the other sources

for PC's. Instead, they concentrate on what they can make money at-- selling

older "refurbs" (Clean case, blow dust out, minor repair, etc.) for cheap.

(Run Vista? how about Win ME maybe)

(And also sell various PC parts at outragous prices, when compared to Office

Depot or Best Buy.)

 

"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote in message

news:%23OGLDD7EIHA.4748@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> "local major stores"

> Probably true and AFAIK, it seems true here as well.

> But what about local computer shops?

> Some here will sell computers with Linux.

> Dell will, possibly others.

>

> If you only look in a specific type of store, "major stores carrying

> computers", you are limiting your choices by not looking.

> There are many other places to buy other than those.

>

> "The refusal of an "all in one" printer mfr to provide..."

> That is an example of why people need to research Windows Vista

> compatibility with essential hardware and software before purchasing

> Windows Vista.

> To a large degree, the compatibility of hardware and software is

> known.

> As you suggested, this is not new to Windows Vista.

> It also applies to other operating systems from other manufacturers.

>

> --

> Jupiter Jones [MVP]

> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar

> http://www.dts-l.org

>

>

> "Chuck" <cdkuder@msn.com> wrote in message

> news:eoETbr6EIHA.6120@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> >A sweep of local major stores carrying computers showed that NOT ONE

> >had

> > computers using Linux for sale "off the shelf"

> > Order? Yes, most would order, but not give a short delivery date.

> >

> > At this point, Vista for all practical purposes, is at about the

> > same place

> > that XP was several years ago. (did not always work well on many

> > existing

> > computers, had a lot of loose ends that caused problems with some

> > existing

> > major and minor software apps, existing hardware and drivers, etc.)

> >

> > The refusal of an "all in one" printer mfr to provide updated

> > drivers and

> > possibly key applications software is just one example that may

> > cause a user

> > or even a whole company to delay or decline to upgrade to Vista.

> >

> > I looked at some major users (companies) in my area--

> > Most intend to stay with win2K for now.

> > about 20-30% of the older printers would loose capability due to

> > driver

> > compatability issues with Vista.

> > about 30% of the existing scanners were older units, and had no

> > drivers

> > available under Vista. These were usually older SCSI based scanners,

> > that

> > were top of line several years ago. Many might be usable if third

> > party

> > software such as Viewscan were purchased by users.

> > Many individual users complained that the printing time from send to

> > printer

> > to document complete has kept increasing as windows became larger

> > and

> > "bloated" from win 3.11 to Vista. (using the same laser printers.)

>

Re: Linux is FREE....Where are the users??????????????? LINUX is F

 

But they sell custom made computers, with Linux if that is what you

want.

"Ma&Pa computer stores do not compete"

They also often provide faster and better service.

The prices seem more comparable here.

The best place for me to buy parts is a small local shop.

And I rarely get a discount.

 

The point is Linux can be easily found.

 

--

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

http://www3.telus.net/dandemar

http://www.dts-l.org

 

 

"Chuck" <cdkuder@msn.com> wrote in message

news:exo%23DT7EIHA.5648@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> The local Ma&Pa computer stores do not compete with any of the other

> sources

> for PC's. Instead, they concentrate on what they can make money at--

> selling

> older "refurbs" (Clean case, blow dust out, minor repair, etc.) for

> cheap.

> (Run Vista? how about Win ME maybe)

> (And also sell various PC parts at outragous prices, when compared

> to Office

> Depot or Best Buy.)

Re: Linux is FREE....Where are the users??????????????? LINUX is F

 

Buyer goes into major retail outlet to buy a computer. Picks a model running

Ubuntu. Wants a printer and scanner too. Will it work? The employee is not

sure but probably thinks that it will be ok. Wants some software for the

kids and maybe something for self. Will it work? No. Employee says that the

internet is the only place to get software. Buyer asks if any existing

software from the old computer will work. Employee says 'no, probably not'.

Buyer picks Windows computer. Everybody is happy.

 

--

Mike Hall - MVP

http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

Posting Productively.. http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

 

 

 

"Chuck" <cdkuder@msn.com> wrote in message

news:exo%23DT7EIHA.5648@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> The local Ma&Pa computer stores do not compete with any of the other

> sources

> for PC's. Instead, they concentrate on what they can make money at--

> selling

> older "refurbs" (Clean case, blow dust out, minor repair, etc.) for

> cheap.

> (Run Vista? how about Win ME maybe)

> (And also sell various PC parts at outragous prices, when compared to

> Office

> Depot or Best Buy.)

>

> "Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote in message

> news:%23OGLDD7EIHA.4748@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>> "local major stores"

>> Probably true and AFAIK, it seems true here as well.

>> But what about local computer shops?

>> Some here will sell computers with Linux.

>> Dell will, possibly others.

>>

>> If you only look in a specific type of store, "major stores carrying

>> computers", you are limiting your choices by not looking.

>> There are many other places to buy other than those.

>>

>> "The refusal of an "all in one" printer mfr to provide..."

>> That is an example of why people need to research Windows Vista

>> compatibility with essential hardware and software before purchasing

>> Windows Vista.

>> To a large degree, the compatibility of hardware and software is

>> known.

>> As you suggested, this is not new to Windows Vista.

>> It also applies to other operating systems from other manufacturers.

>>

>> --

>> Jupiter Jones [MVP]

>> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar

>> http://www.dts-l.org

>>

>>

>> "Chuck" <cdkuder@msn.com> wrote in message

>> news:eoETbr6EIHA.6120@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>> >A sweep of local major stores carrying computers showed that NOT ONE

>> >had

>> > computers using Linux for sale "off the shelf"

>> > Order? Yes, most would order, but not give a short delivery date.

>> >

>> > At this point, Vista for all practical purposes, is at about the

>> > same place

>> > that XP was several years ago. (did not always work well on many

>> > existing

>> > computers, had a lot of loose ends that caused problems with some

>> > existing

>> > major and minor software apps, existing hardware and drivers, etc.)

>> >

>> > The refusal of an "all in one" printer mfr to provide updated

>> > drivers and

>> > possibly key applications software is just one example that may

>> > cause a user

>> > or even a whole company to delay or decline to upgrade to Vista.

>> >

>> > I looked at some major users (companies) in my area--

>> > Most intend to stay with win2K for now.

>> > about 20-30% of the older printers would loose capability due to

>> > driver

>> > compatability issues with Vista.

>> > about 30% of the existing scanners were older units, and had no

>> > drivers

>> > available under Vista. These were usually older SCSI based scanners,

>> > that

>> > were top of line several years ago. Many might be usable if third

>> > party

>> > software such as Viewscan were purchased by users.

>> > Many individual users complained that the printing time from send to

>> > printer

>> > to document complete has kept increasing as windows became larger

>> > and

>> > "bloated" from win 3.11 to Vista. (using the same laser printers.)

>>

>

>

Re: Linux is FREE....Where are the users??????????????? LINUX isFREE...Where are it's users???????????????????

 

heather.banger@gmail.com wrote:

> On Oct 20, 10:55 pm, heather.ban...@gmail.com wrote:

>> Linux users love to talk about how Micorsoft sabotoges the Linux

>> movement but they forget one important aspect of Linux, it is FREE....

>>

>> Yes Linux, and all of it's *wonderful* applications, is free every day

>> of the week.

>>

>> So why are so few people using Linux?

>> People are free to choose.

>> Nobody is holding their feet to the fire.

>> So why don't they choose Linux?

>> Why are they willing to pay $200 for Windows and another $200 for

>> Office instead of using Linux and OpenOffice for free?

>>

>> Why?

>>

>> Think about what would happen if Sony decided to give away TVs for

>> free.

>> How long would RCA be in business?

>> A week maybe?

>>

>> Yet Linux is free all the time and it seems nobody is taking the bait.

>> Why?

>>

>> That, in and of itself says all that needs to be said about Linux.

>>

>> When it can't be given away for free, it must really suck.

>> And Linux does.

>> Suck that is.

>

> <Linux is crap because it can't even be given away,

>

 

 

That's why Dell says that there Linux sales are

growing faster than Windows sales.

caver1

Re: Linux is FREE....Where are the users??????????????? LINUX is F

 

"Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.com> wrote in message

news:O0oexG%23EIHA.5208@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> Buyer goes into major retail outlet to buy a computer. Picks a model

> running Ubuntu. Wants a printer and scanner too. Will it work? The

> employee is not sure but probably thinks that it will be ok. Wants some

> software for the kids and maybe something for self. Will it work? No.

> Employee says that the internet is the only place to get software. Buyer

> asks if any existing software from the old computer will work. Employee

> says 'no, probably not'. Buyer picks Windows computer. Everybody is happy.

>

 

Which unfortunately, is a realistic illustration of the complete

incompetence of most "sales" staff at major retail outlets.

There are usually equivalent linux versions of most major applications used

on Windows which do NOT require searching the internet for, but are

available direct from the distribution repositories and can be installed

easily through a very use-friendly GUI.

With a modicum of research, hardware like scanners can be purchased

relatively easily that will work out of the box on Linux.

Software that has no Linux equivalent (and there is not many these days with

the exception of games) can, with not very much work, be run under WINE.

I repeat, most of your post is an indictment of the incompetence and

ignorance of most "sales" staff in major outlets, and not the real truth of

Linux as it is today.

 

I have to say that personally I never ask staff anything technical in places

like PC World, because they just don't know! They are SALES people, not

computer people.

Re: Linux is FREE....Where are the users??????????????? LINUX isFREE...Where are it's users???????????????????

 

caver1 wrote:

> heather.banger@gmail.com wrote:

>> On Oct 20, 10:55 pm, heather.ban...@gmail.com wrote:

>>> Linux users love to talk about how Micorsoft sabotoges the Linux

>>> movement but they forget one important aspect of Linux, it is FREE....

>>>

>>> Yes Linux, and all of it's *wonderful* applications, is free every day

>>> of the week.

>>>

>>> So why are so few people using Linux?

>>> People are free to choose.

>>> Nobody is holding their feet to the fire.

>>> So why don't they choose Linux?

>>> Why are they willing to pay $200 for Windows and another $200 for

>>> Office instead of using Linux and OpenOffice for free?

>>>

>>> Why?

>>>

>>> Think about what would happen if Sony decided to give away TVs for

>>> free.

>>> How long would RCA be in business?

>>> A week maybe?

>>>

>>> Yet Linux is free all the time and it seems nobody is taking the bait.

>>> Why?

>>>

>>> That, in and of itself says all that needs to be said about Linux.

>>>

>>> When it can't be given away for free, it must really suck.

>>> And Linux does.

>>> Suck that is.

>>

>> <Linux is crap because it can't even be given away,

>>

>

>

> That's why Dell says that there Linux sales are growing faster than

> Windows sales.

> caver1

 

And the Ubuntu newsgroup is full of newbies.

 

--

Alias

 

To email me, remove shoes

Re: Linux is FREE....Where are the users??????????????? LINUX isF

 

Gordon wrote:

> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.com> wrote in message

> news:O0oexG%23EIHA.5208@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>> Buyer goes into major retail outlet to buy a computer. Picks a model

>> running Ubuntu. Wants a printer and scanner too. Will it work? The

>> employee is not sure but probably thinks that it will be ok. Wants some

>> software for the kids and maybe something for self. Will it work? No.

>> Employee says that the internet is the only place to get software. Buyer

>> asks if any existing software from the old computer will work. Employee

>> says 'no, probably not'. Buyer picks Windows computer. Everybody is happy.

>>

>

> Which unfortunately, is a realistic illustration of the complete

> incompetence of most "sales" staff at major retail outlets.

> There are usually equivalent linux versions of most major applications used

> on Windows which do NOT require searching the internet for, but are

> available direct from the distribution repositories and can be installed

> easily through a very use-friendly GUI.

> With a modicum of research, hardware like scanners can be purchased

> relatively easily that will work out of the box on Linux.

> Software that has no Linux equivalent (and there is not many these days with

> the exception of games) can, with not very much work, be run under WINE.

> I repeat, most of your post is an indictment of the incompetence and

> ignorance of most "sales" staff in major outlets, and not the real truth of

> Linux as it is today.

>

> I have to say that personally I never ask staff anything technical in places

> like PC World, because they just don't know! They are SALES people, not

> computer people.

>

>

 

Typical of Mike, though, to trot out a straw man. If someone knows

enough to ask for Ubuntu, they probably also know more than any sales

rep and wouldn't be asking the stupid questions Mike fantasizes that

they will ask.

 

--

Alias

 

To email me, remove shoes

Re: Linux is FREE....Where are the users??????????????? LINUX isFREE...Where are it's users???????????????????

 

On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:57:24 -0700, heather.banger wrote:

> On Oct 20, 10:55 pm, heather.ban...@gmail.com wrote:

>> Linux users love to talk about how Micorsoft sabotoges the Linux

>> movement but they forget one important aspect of Linux, it is FREE....

>>

>> Yes Linux, and all of it's *wonderful* applications, is free every day

>> of the week.

>>

>> So why are so few people using Linux? People are free to choose.

>> Nobody is holding their feet to the fire. So why don't they choose

>> Linux?

>> Why are they willing to pay $200 for Windows and another $200 for

>> Office instead of using Linux and OpenOffice for free?

>>

>> Why?

>>

>> Think about what would happen if Sony decided to give away TVs for

>> free.

>> How long would RCA be in business?

>> A week maybe?

>>

>> Yet Linux is free all the time and it seems nobody is taking the bait.

>> Why?

>>

>> That, in and of itself says all that needs to be said about Linux.

>>

>> When it can't be given away for free, it must really suck. And Linux

>> does.

>> Suck that is.

>

> <Linux is crap because it can't even be given away,

 

.... another really poor troll attempt.

 

 

 

--

Rick

Re: Linux is FREE....Where are the users??????????????? LINUX is F

 

On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 23:51:17 -0600, "Jupiter Jones [MVP]"

<jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote:

>"it is very hard to find a computer that does not have windows on it"

>I would disagree with this statement.

 

Just one question Jupiter. Why in the hell do you think anybody gives

a rat's ass what you think?

 

I wish I owned the soapbox concession for this newsgroup. Damn, I

would make a fortune from all the pompous jerks needing to mouth off

and act like they knew what they were talking about.

 

ROTFLMAO!

Re: Linux is FREE....Where are the users??????????????? LINUX is F

 

It is indeed a sad reflection, and applies as much to somebody looking at a

Vista machine too. Getting a sale is the most important factor, but a

salesperson can more confidently say that all is compatible with Windows

whether right or wrong..

 

--

Mike Hall - MVP

http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

Posting Productively.. http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

 

 

 

"Gordon" <gbplinux@gmail.com.invalid> wrote in message

news:eMEpxP%23EIHA.3716@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.com> wrote in message

> news:O0oexG%23EIHA.5208@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>> Buyer goes into major retail outlet to buy a computer. Picks a model

>> running Ubuntu. Wants a printer and scanner too. Will it work? The

>> employee is not sure but probably thinks that it will be ok. Wants some

>> software for the kids and maybe something for self. Will it work? No.

>> Employee says that the internet is the only place to get software. Buyer

>> asks if any existing software from the old computer will work. Employee

>> says 'no, probably not'. Buyer picks Windows computer. Everybody is

>> happy.

>>

>

> Which unfortunately, is a realistic illustration of the complete

> incompetence of most "sales" staff at major retail outlets.

> There are usually equivalent linux versions of most major applications

> used on Windows which do NOT require searching the internet for, but are

> available direct from the distribution repositories and can be installed

> easily through a very use-friendly GUI.

> With a modicum of research, hardware like scanners can be purchased

> relatively easily that will work out of the box on Linux.

> Software that has no Linux equivalent (and there is not many these days

> with the exception of games) can, with not very much work, be run under

> WINE.

> I repeat, most of your post is an indictment of the incompetence and

> ignorance of most "sales" staff in major outlets, and not the real truth

> of Linux as it is today.

>

> I have to say that personally I never ask staff anything technical in

> places like PC World, because they just don't know! They are SALES people,

> not computer people.

>

Re: Linux is FREE....Where are the users??????????????? LINUX is F

 

"Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> used his webbed feet to type in message

news:25mmh3hfm4l3v4vv351q7muvb2vj43qu7f@4ax.com...

> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 23:51:17 -0600, "Jupiter Jones [MVP]"

> <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote:

>

>>"it is very hard to find a computer that does not have windows on it"

>>I would disagree with this statement.

>

> Just one question Jupiter. quack, quack, quack, quack....quack quack

> quack, quack quack

>

> I wish I owned the soapbox concession for this newsgroup. quack, quack,

> quack, quack....quack quack quack, quack quack

> quack, quack, quack, quack....quack quack quack, quack quack

> QUACK!

>

Re: Linux is FREE....Where are the users??????????????? LINUX is F

 

Alias

 

Your technical prowess seems only to extend to bandying insults with others

of your type. When anybody puts up any decent discussion point, you either

insult or become uncharacteristically quiet. You quite clearly have shown

yourself to have no grasp of anything, and that includes Ubuntu. Still

waiting for a bug free 7.10? Wait on..

 

Much as you bluster on about Ubuntu, it is by no means the 'be all and end

all' of the Linux scene, and is as all other Linux desktops are, a niche

market.

 

--

Mike Hall - MVP

http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

Posting Productively.. http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

 

 

 

"Alias" <iamalias@gmailshoes.com> wrote in message

news:fffjma$66f$1@aioe.org...

> Gordon wrote:

>> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.com> wrote in message

>> news:O0oexG%23EIHA.5208@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>>> Buyer goes into major retail outlet to buy a computer. Picks a model

>>> running Ubuntu. Wants a printer and scanner too. Will it work? The

>>> employee is not sure but probably thinks that it will be ok. Wants some

>>> software for the kids and maybe something for self. Will it work? No.

>>> Employee says that the internet is the only place to get software. Buyer

>>> asks if any existing software from the old computer will work. Employee

>>> says 'no, probably not'. Buyer picks Windows computer. Everybody is

>>> happy.

>>>

>>

>> Which unfortunately, is a realistic illustration of the complete

>> incompetence of most "sales" staff at major retail outlets.

>> There are usually equivalent linux versions of most major applications

>> used on Windows which do NOT require searching the internet for, but are

>> available direct from the distribution repositories and can be installed

>> easily through a very use-friendly GUI.

>> With a modicum of research, hardware like scanners can be purchased

>> relatively easily that will work out of the box on Linux.

>> Software that has no Linux equivalent (and there is not many these days

>> with the exception of games) can, with not very much work, be run under

>> WINE.

>> I repeat, most of your post is an indictment of the incompetence and

>> ignorance of most "sales" staff in major outlets, and not the real truth

>> of Linux as it is today.

>>

>> I have to say that personally I never ask staff anything technical in

>> places like PC World, because they just don't know! They are SALES

>> people, not computer people.

>

> Typical of Mike, though, to trot out a straw man. If someone knows enough

> to ask for Ubuntu, they probably also know more than any sales rep and

> wouldn't be asking the stupid questions Mike fantasizes that they will

> ask.

>

> --

> Alias

>

> To email me, remove shoes

Re: A foolish statistic

 

Gee. If Dell sold 10 computers with Linux last month, and 20 computers this

months, that's a 100% increase in sales - which means absolutely

***NOTHING***!

 

Conversely, if Dell sold 42,000 computers with Vista last month and 50,400

this month, that is a 20% increase.

 

If you were Dell, which would you rather sell?

 

 

"caver1" wrote:

> heather.banger@gmail.com wrote:

> > On Oct 20, 10:55 pm, heather.ban...@gmail.com wrote:

> >> Linux users love to talk about how Micorsoft sabotoges the Linux

> >> movement but they forget one important aspect of Linux, it is FREE....

> >>

> >> Yes Linux, and all of it's *wonderful* applications, is free every day

> >> of the week.

> >>

> >> So why are so few people using Linux?

> >> People are free to choose.

> >> Nobody is holding their feet to the fire.

> >> So why don't they choose Linux?

> >> Why are they willing to pay $200 for Windows and another $200 for

> >> Office instead of using Linux and OpenOffice for free?

> >>

> >> Why?

> >>

> >> Think about what would happen if Sony decided to give away TVs for

> >> free.

> >> How long would RCA be in business?

> >> A week maybe?

> >>

> >> Yet Linux is free all the time and it seems nobody is taking the bait.

> >> Why?

> >>

> >> That, in and of itself says all that needs to be said about Linux.

> >>

> >> When it can't be given away for free, it must really suck.

> >> And Linux does.

> >> Suck that is.

> >

> > <Linux is crap because it can't even be given away,

> >

>

>

> That's why Dell says that there Linux sales are

> growing faster than Windows sales.

> caver1

>

Re: A foolish statistic

 

Ricky wrote:

> Gee. If Dell sold 10 computers with Linux last month, and 20 computers this

> months, that's a 100% increase in sales - which means absolutely

> ***NOTHING***!

>

> Conversely, if Dell sold 42,000 computers with Vista last month and 50,400

> this month, that is a 20% increase.

>

> If you were Dell, which would you rather sell?

>

>

> "caver1" wrote:

>

>> heather.banger@gmail.com wrote:

>>> On Oct 20, 10:55 pm, heather.ban...@gmail.com wrote:

>>>> Linux users love to talk about how Micorsoft sabotoges the Linux

>>>> movement but they forget one important aspect of Linux, it is FREE....

>>>>

>>>> Yes Linux, and all of it's *wonderful* applications, is free every day

>>>> of the week.

>>>>

>>>> So why are so few people using Linux?

>>>> People are free to choose.

>>>> Nobody is holding their feet to the fire.

>>>> So why don't they choose Linux?

>>>> Why are they willing to pay $200 for Windows and another $200 for

>>>> Office instead of using Linux and OpenOffice for free?

>>>>

>>>> Why?

>>>>

>>>> Think about what would happen if Sony decided to give away TVs for

>>>> free.

>>>> How long would RCA be in business?

>>>> A week maybe?

>>>>

>>>> Yet Linux is free all the time and it seems nobody is taking the bait.

>>>> Why?

>>>>

>>>> That, in and of itself says all that needs to be said about Linux.

>>>>

>>>> When it can't be given away for free, it must really suck.

>>>> And Linux does.

>>>> Suck that is.

>>> <Linux is crap because it can't even be given away,

>>>

>>

>> That's why Dell says that there Linux sales are

>> growing faster than Windows sales.

>> caver1

>>

 

 

The figures point out that if you make Linux

available they will be sold.

If you read what Dell is saying is that Linux

sales are increasing and Vista sales

are practically dead in the water.

caver1

Re: Linux is FREE....Where are the users??????????????? LINUX isF

 

Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

> Alias

>

> Your technical prowess seems only to extend to bandying insults with

> others of your type. When anybody puts up any decent discussion point,

> you either insult or become uncharacteristically quiet. You quite

> clearly have shown yourself to have no grasp of anything, and that

> includes Ubuntu. Still waiting for a bug free 7.10? Wait on..

>

> Much as you bluster on about Ubuntu, it is by no means the 'be all and

> end all' of the Linux scene, and is as all other Linux desktops are, a

> niche market.

>

 

Insulting me rather than addressing the content again, eh? Why am I not

surprised?

 

--

Alias

 

To email me, remove shoes

Re: A foolish statistic

 

I have been playing with every version of Ubuntu available for the past

three years. I use them in a virtual machine.

 

I would "never" install Ubuntu (or any Linux distribution) directly on a

computer, nor would I ever purchase a computer that has Linux on it. That

is, unless someone has a new computer using Linux that they just have to get

rid of (at a ridiculously cheap price), because they have found that what

they want to install on it doesn't work.

 

Then I would buy the computer and wipe it clean, install Windows, and resell

the computer.

 

--

 

Regards,

 

Richard Urban

Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User

(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

 

 

 

"caver1" <caver@inthemud.com> wrote in message

news:uTNmnM$EIHA.1168@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> Ricky wrote:

>> Gee. If Dell sold 10 computers with Linux last month, and 20 computers

>> this months, that's a 100% increase in sales - which means absolutely

>> ***NOTHING***!

>>

>> Conversely, if Dell sold 42,000 computers with Vista last month and

>> 50,400 this month, that is a 20% increase. If you were Dell, which would

>> you rather sell?

>>

>>

>> "caver1" wrote:

>>

>>> heather.banger@gmail.com wrote:

>>>> On Oct 20, 10:55 pm, heather.ban...@gmail.com wrote:

>>>>> Linux users love to talk about how Micorsoft sabotoges the Linux

>>>>> movement but they forget one important aspect of Linux, it is FREE....

>>>>>

>>>>> Yes Linux, and all of it's *wonderful* applications, is free every day

>>>>> of the week.

>>>>>

>>>>> So why are so few people using Linux?

>>>>> People are free to choose.

>>>>> Nobody is holding their feet to the fire.

>>>>> So why don't they choose Linux?

>>>>> Why are they willing to pay $200 for Windows and another $200 for

>>>>> Office instead of using Linux and OpenOffice for free?

>>>>>

>>>>> Why?

>>>>>

>>>>> Think about what would happen if Sony decided to give away TVs for

>>>>> free.

>>>>> How long would RCA be in business?

>>>>> A week maybe?

>>>>>

>>>>> Yet Linux is free all the time and it seems nobody is taking the bait.

>>>>> Why?

>>>>>

>>>>> That, in and of itself says all that needs to be said about Linux.

>>>>>

>>>>> When it can't be given away for free, it must really suck.

>>>>> And Linux does.

>>>>> Suck that is.

>>>> <Linux is crap because it can't even be given away,

>>>>

>>>

>>> That's why Dell says that there Linux sales are growing faster than

>>> Windows sales.

>>> caver1

>>>

>

>

> The figures point out that if you make Linux available they will be sold.

> If you read what Dell is saying is that Linux sales are increasing and

> Vista sales

> are practically dead in the water.

> caver1

Re: Linux is FREE....Where are the users??????????????? LINUX is F

 

"Alias" <iamalias@gmailshoes.com> wrote in message

news:fffpui$m8g$1@aioe.org...

> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>> Alias

>>

>> Your technical prowess seems only to extend to bandying insults with

>> others of your type. When anybody puts up any decent discussion point,

>> you either insult or become uncharacteristically quiet. You quite clearly

>> have shown yourself to have no grasp of anything, and that includes

>> Ubuntu. Still waiting for a bug free 7.10? Wait on..

>>

>> Much as you bluster on about Ubuntu, it is by no means the 'be all and

>> end all' of the Linux scene, and is as all other Linux desktops are, a

>> niche market.

>>

>

> Insulting me rather than addressing the content again, eh? Why am I not

> surprised?

 

I'm surprised you saw an insult there, it was just a statement of fact IMO.

If you thought that was an insult you should avoid using the Internet as it

is full of adults who may actually insult you one day.