On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 16:18:31 -0700, Frank <fb@spamm.nrz> wrote:

>Adam Albright wrote:

>> On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 23:11:42 +0100, "dennis@home"

>> <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote:

>>

>>

>>><spike1@freenet.co.uk> wrote in message

>>

>>

>>>>No it isn't. Ever installed windows?

>>>

>>>3.0,3.1,3.11,95,98,98se,nt,2000,xp,vista,soaris,fedora,unixware,ubuntu,rmx

>>>and a few I have forgotten.

>>>Which have you installed?

>>

>>

>> Still acting like a pompous ass aren't you.

>

>Oh, I don't think he has any intention at all of stealing your pompous

>act, you as*hole!

 

Kiss my grits Frank.

Adam Albright wrote:

> On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 23:25:09 +0100, "dennis@home"

> <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote:

>

>

>>>Oh come on Dennis...

>>>

>>>What part about "Guided - Use entire disk" is difficult to understand? I

>>>mean it frigging says "entire disk" right next to it!!!

>>

>>Well that assumes the installer knows what a disk is to start with.

>

>

> You're really getting out of control. I know what your problem is. You

> simply can't stand to get corrected. Even when you are wrong. Why else

> you think I keep calling you a pompous jerk.

 

Oh the irony!

>

> ROTFLMAO!

>

>

>>As I said before Linux expects the user to know too much.

>>It was written by geeks who either don't understand the target audience or

>>don't expect Linux to be used by the masses.

>

>

> Don't get me started on all the Microsoft screw ups. It would be a

> very long detailed list starting with illegal snooping on customer's

> computers reporting back to Redmond and marking legit copies of Vista

> as counterfeit. Just wondering, you REALLY want me to post such a

> list?

>

> Face facts. You're nothing but another head up your ass Microsoft

> apologist that gets his shorts all bunched up any time anybody exposes

> what rubes Microsoft designers really are.

>

>

>>Also if you were truthful you would admit that Vista and XP ask twice before

>>removing a partition and tell the user that it may contain data that will be

>>lost if they do.

>

>

> Now you're cherry picking. How come you never want to face all the

> stupid things Vista does? You simply have no clue what being fair and

> balanced means. If you want to start nitpicking Linux or Macs, first

> clean up Microsoft's house. It's a mess. You know it too.

>

>

>>It even asks twice before it will format one.

>>I suggest you dig out you windows disks and try an install as you appear to

>>have forgotten what it does.

>

>

> I can't forget what a a-hole you always are. You make it impossible to

> forget.

>

You must be the most brain dead jacka*s loser of all times.

You are truly one fulkked up scumbag idiot.

Frank

Stephan Rose wrote:

> On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 21:02:16 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

>

>> "lee h" <noti@domain.invalid> wrote in message

>> news:MM7Ri.10622$lD6.5170@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...

>>> rodolfo.garcia44@gmail.com wrote:

>>>> On Oct 16, 6:03 am, Summercool <Summercooln...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>> After installing Ubuntu, it seemed that everything on my Drive C: was

>>>>> lost.

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>> For the simplest Ubuntu install on a windows box, use Wubi (Windows

>>> Ubuntu Installer).

>> Its a bit too late for that.

>> The lack of a suitable warning has made sure another potential Linux

>> user will stick with something else.

>> This is the problem with Linux .. it is written by geeks who have no

>> idea how simple it has to be for the mass market. Windows would have

>> warned the user at least twice before removing a Linux partition and

>> that would be after selecting the partition and saying delete.

>

> Oh come on Dennis...

>

> What part about "Guided - Use entire disk" is difficult to understand? I

> mean it frigging says "entire disk" right next to it!!!

>

> How can you blame the OS Installer if the user is incapable of reading

> the whole sentence?

>

> Also, the Ubuntu installer will show a list of partition / file system

> changes it makes to what drives and what partition that the user has to

> OK before actually doing it.

>

> So you can't even accidentally click continue and overwrite the system.

> You need to do so twice.

>

> Also, how is this different from installing XP or Vista?

>

> Last time I checked, XP and Vista also give you just a list of drives /

> partitions and you just go pick one to install on, or you can manually

> configure the partitions. How is that any different? Except of course

> Vista or XP don't ask a second time just to make sure you didn't make a

> mistake. I suppose that is one difference.

>

 

 

In my experience Windows has only ever warned if you are about to damage

another "Windows" installation, seems like it always ignored anything

else, at least as far as I have encountered.

 

Anyway this is a silly topic, the OP obviously didn't think / didn't

read / didn't understand ow whatever and that is unfortunate but I'm

sure we have all experienced that [Enter] Oh sh*t feeling.

 

You cannot go through a Ubuntu install hitting defaults, you have to

make a conscious selection (Or unconscious depending on state of mind I

guess) so some here are just plain lying (Surprise surprise).

Stephan Rose wrote:

> On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:04:28 -0700, rodolfo.garcia44 wrote:

>

>> On Oct 16, 6:03 am, Summercool <Summercooln...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> After installing Ubuntu, it seemed that everything on my Drive C: was

>>> lost.

>>>

>>> After hours of trying, it really turned out I lost EVERYTHING on my C:

>>> drive.

>>>

>>> So I had to reformat the whole C: drive, and reinstall Vista on it.

>>>

>>> I lost all my bookmarks, in both IE and Firefox.

>>>

>>> I needed to reinstall every single application.

>>>

>>> I needed to reinstall all security update for Vista all over again.

>>>

>>> I wasted at least 5, 6 hours.

>>>

>>> How can "Ubuntu - Humanity towards others" erases people's whole hard

>>> drive without a single warning?

>>>

>>> Think about it, some people may lose tens or hundreds of hours of work,

>>> or 4, 5 years of photos and memories, just because Ubuntu erases whole

>>> hard drive without warning.

>>>

>>> The following is the install option snapshot: IT NEVER warns you the

>>> content in drive C: will be totally erased. What's more, it is set as

>>> the DEFAULT ACTION. And it says it is "GUIDED":

>>>

>>> http://aycu03.webshots.com/image/32522/2001738602340396146_rs.jpg

>

> It says "Guided - Use entire disk".

>

> Now what particular part about "Use Entire Disk" is beyond your

> comprehension?

>

>

 

 

There's also an option to use free space.

caver1

caver1 wrote:

> Stephan Rose wrote:

>> On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:04:28 -0700, rodolfo.garcia44 wrote:

>>

>>> On Oct 16, 6:03 am, Summercool <Summercooln...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>> After installing Ubuntu, it seemed that everything on my Drive C: was

>>>> lost.

>>>>

>>>> After hours of trying, it really turned out I lost EVERYTHING on my C:

>>>> drive.

>>>>

>>>> So I had to reformat the whole C: drive, and reinstall Vista on it.

>>>>

>>>> I lost all my bookmarks, in both IE and Firefox.

>>>>

>>>> I needed to reinstall every single application.

>>>>

>>>> I needed to reinstall all security update for Vista all over again.

>>>>

>>>> I wasted at least 5, 6 hours.

>>>>

>>>> How can "Ubuntu - Humanity towards others" erases people's whole hard

>>>> drive without a single warning?

>>>>

>>>> Think about it, some people may lose tens or hundreds of hours of work,

>>>> or 4, 5 years of photos and memories, just because Ubuntu erases whole

>>>> hard drive without warning.

>>>>

>>>> The following is the install option snapshot: IT NEVER warns you the

>>>> content in drive C: will be totally erased. What's more, it is set as

>>>> the DEFAULT ACTION. And it says it is "GUIDED":

>>>>

>>>> http://aycu03.webshots.com/image/32522/2001738602340396146_rs.jpg

>>

>> It says "Guided - Use entire disk".

>>

>> Now what particular part about "Use Entire Disk" is beyond your

>> comprehension?

>>

>>

>

>

> There's also an option to use free space.

> caver1

 

 

Yeah, the bit between the ears...

 

It is possible he unwittingly used that and his XP or whatever is still

there.

<spike1@freenet.co.uk> wrote in message

news:aeqfu4-0re.ln1@ridcully.ntlworld.com...

> In the sacred domain of comp.os.linux.advocacy,

> dennis@home <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> didnst hastily scribble

> thusly:

>> 3.0,3.1,3.11,95,98,98se,nt,2000,xp,vista,soaris,fedora,unixware,ubuntu,rmx

>> and a few I have forgotten.

>> Which have you installed?

>

> Too many.

>

>> Do you doubt it?

>> Have you never installed windows?

>

> As I said, Too many times.

>

>>> Let's see some proof that linux didn't warn him then,

>>> shall we?

>

>

> Didn't think so.

 

If you are so sure it does you could show the warning.

The fact that I can't show the warning is just evidence that it doesn't

exist.

You really should try and get the logic correct before demanding evidence.

"Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message

news:o5gah3lle5rev4826vsadfpc1hek0ishc4@4ax.com...

> On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 23:11:42 +0100, "dennis@home"

> <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote:

>

>>

>><spike1@freenet.co.uk> wrote in message

>

>>> No it isn't. Ever installed windows?

>>

>>3.0,3.1,3.11,95,98,98se,nt,2000,xp,vista,soaris,fedora,unixware,ubuntu,rmx

>>and a few I have forgotten.

>>Which have you installed?

>

> Still acting like a pompous ass aren't you. What's the matter, can't

> break an old bad habit?

>

 

Ho Crazy.

When do your doctors decide you have had enough free time?

dennis@home wrote:

>

> <spike1@freenet.co.uk> wrote in message

> news:aeqfu4-0re.ln1@ridcully.ntlworld.com...

>> In the sacred domain of comp.os.linux.advocacy,

>> dennis@home <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> didnst hastily scribble

>> thusly:

>>>

3.0,3.1,3.11,95,98,98se,nt,2000,xp,vista,soaris,fedora,unixware,ubuntu,rmx

>>> and a few I have forgotten.

>>> Which have you installed?

>>

>> Too many.

>>

>>> Do you doubt it?

>>> Have you never installed windows?

>>

>> As I said, Too many times.

>>

>>>> Let's see some proof that linux didn't warn him then,

>>>> shall we?

>>

>>

>> Didn't think so.

>

> If you are so sure it does you could show the warning.

 

Well, why should he? People who have actually installed it know that it

exists.

> The fact that I can't show the warning is just evidence that it doesn't

> exist.

 

The "fact" that you can't show the warning is evidence that you are lying.

Or too stupid to even attempt a linux install. Or both

> You really should try and get the logic correct before demanding evidence.

 

Hilarious

--

Law of Probable Dispersal:

Whatever it is that hits the fan will not be evenly distributed.

On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 22:25:41 -0400, caver1 wrote:

> Stephan Rose wrote:

>> On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:04:28 -0700, rodolfo.garcia44 wrote:

>>

>>> On Oct 16, 6:03 am, Summercool <Summercooln...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>> After installing Ubuntu, it seemed that everything on my Drive C: was

>>>> lost.

>>>>

>>>> After hours of trying, it really turned out I lost EVERYTHING on my

>>>> C: drive.

>>>>

>>>> So I had to reformat the whole C: drive, and reinstall Vista on it.

>>>>

>>>> I lost all my bookmarks, in both IE and Firefox.

>>>>

>>>> I needed to reinstall every single application.

>>>>

>>>> I needed to reinstall all security update for Vista all over again.

>>>>

>>>> I wasted at least 5, 6 hours.

>>>>

>>>> How can "Ubuntu - Humanity towards others" erases people's whole hard

>>>> drive without a single warning?

>>>>

>>>> Think about it, some people may lose tens or hundreds of hours of

>>>> work, or 4, 5 years of photos and memories, just because Ubuntu

>>>> erases whole hard drive without warning.

>>>>

>>>> The following is the install option snapshot: IT NEVER warns you the

>>>> content in drive C: will be totally erased. What's more, it is set as

>>>> the DEFAULT ACTION. And it says it is "GUIDED":

>>>>

>>>> http://aycu03.webshots.com/image/32522/2001738602340396146_rs.jpg

>>

>> It says "Guided - Use entire disk".

>>

>> Now what particular part about "Use Entire Disk" is beyond your

>> comprehension?

>>

>>

>>

>

> There's also an option to use free space. caver1

 

Not on that screenshot there isn't.

 

I think the free space option only appears if there acutally *is* free

space that could be used in the first place or if there is a partition

that can be safely resized to make free space.

 

And then, the option will also be called such and won't be called "Use

entire disk".

 

--

Stephan

2003 Yamaha R6

 

å›ã®ã“ã¨æ€ã„出ã™æ—¥ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯

å›ã®ã“ã¨å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸã¨ããŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰

"Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message

news:j8gah3p9lebb67c6g3m0fr5heql6o6runf@4ax.com...

> On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 23:25:09 +0100, "dennis@home"

> <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote:

>

>>> Oh come on Dennis...

>>>

>>> What part about "Guided - Use entire disk" is difficult to understand? I

>>> mean it frigging says "entire disk" right next to it!!!

>>

>>Well that assumes the installer knows what a disk is to start with.

>

> You're really getting out of control. I know what your problem is. You

> simply can't stand to get corrected. Even when you are wrong. Why else

> you think I keep calling you a pompous jerk.

 

Because you are crazy thats why.

Didn't I make it plain enough for you?

Lets try again.

 

You are crazy.

>

> ROTFLMAO!

>

>>As I said before Linux expects the user to know too much.

>>It was written by geeks who either don't understand the target audience or

>>don't expect Linux to be used by the masses.

>

> Don't get me started on all the Microsoft screw ups. It would be a

> very long detailed list starting with illegal snooping on customer's

> computers reporting back to Redmond and marking legit copies of Vista

> as counterfeit. Just wondering, you REALLY want me to post such a

> list?

 

Do I care what you think of anything?

No not really. every time you open your mouth I think less of what you say.

>

> Face facts. You're nothing but another head up your ass Microsoft

> apologist that gets his shorts all bunched up any time anybody exposes

> what rubes Microsoft designers really are.

 

Lets face facts Adam you act crazy.

I don't know what you get out of appearing crazy so I assume you really are

crazy.

Have a nice day and remember to take the pills it will make everyone feel

better.

>

>>Also if you were truthful you would admit that Vista and XP ask twice

>>before

>>removing a partition and tell the user that it may contain data that will

>>be

>>lost if they do.

>

> Now you're cherry picking. How come you never want to face all the

> stupid things Vista does? You simply have no clue what being fair and

> balanced means. If you want to start nitpicking Linux or Macs, first

> clean up Microsoft's house. It's a mess. You know it too.

 

Maybe it because unlike you I am not an expert on Vista so I can hardly

pronounce upon it like you do.

However I am sure the vast majority recognise your expertise for waht it is

and act appropriatly.

>

>>It even asks twice before it will format one.

>>I suggest you dig out you windows disks and try an install as you appear

>>to

>>have forgotten what it does.

>

> I can't forget what a a-hole you always are. You make it impossible to

> forget.

>

 

At least I am not crazy like you Adam.

I doubt if I will be able to forget that either.. who did you say you were?

Do you have any significance here? I thought not.

"caver1" <caver@inthemud.com> wrote in message

news:eClxAUGEIHA.2004@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> Stephan Rose wrote:

>> On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:04:28 -0700, rodolfo.garcia44 wrote:

>>

>>> On Oct 16, 6:03 am, Summercool <Summercooln...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>> After installing Ubuntu, it seemed that everything on my Drive C: was

>>>> lost.

>>>>

>>>> After hours of trying, it really turned out I lost EVERYTHING on my C:

>>>> drive.

>>>>

>>>> So I had to reformat the whole C: drive, and reinstall Vista on it.

>>>>

>>>> I lost all my bookmarks, in both IE and Firefox.

>>>>

>>>> I needed to reinstall every single application.

>>>>

>>>> I needed to reinstall all security update for Vista all over again.

>>>>

>>>> I wasted at least 5, 6 hours.

>>>>

>>>> How can "Ubuntu - Humanity towards others" erases people's whole hard

>>>> drive without a single warning?

>>>>

>>>> Think about it, some people may lose tens or hundreds of hours of work,

>>>> or 4, 5 years of photos and memories, just because Ubuntu erases whole

>>>> hard drive without warning.

>>>>

>>>> The following is the install option snapshot: IT NEVER warns you the

>>>> content in drive C: will be totally erased. What's more, it is set as

>>>> the DEFAULT ACTION. And it says it is "GUIDED":

>>>>

>>>> http://aycu03.webshots.com/image/32522/2001738602340396146_rs.jpg

>>

>> It says "Guided - Use entire disk".

>>

>> Now what particular part about "Use Entire Disk" is beyond your

>> comprehension?

>>

>>

>

>

> There's also an option to use free space.

> caver1

 

This issue is down to what the target market for Linux is.

If it is to take over the desktop then it has to be targeted at the level of

a moron so that almost anyone can install it without getting unfixable

problems.

This means you can't assume the user understands what a disk is.. after all

a lot of people think the case is a CPU.

 

This is Linux's biggest problem.. too many developers and users over

estimate the knowledge of their target users.

Until the developers sort out the installation routines Linux will not be

mass market as it still relies on someone being able to download it and

install it.

Making it so that only ~5% of users can install it without problems stops

the ~95% from using it.

Linux developers haven't even worked out that users don't read manuals by

the sound of it.

 

Having worked in the telecoms industry I can assure you that you can *never*

underestimate how dumb users are (well at least a lot of them).

dennis@home wrote:

>

> "caver1" <caver@inthemud.com> wrote in message

> news:eClxAUGEIHA.2004@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>> Stephan Rose wrote:

>>> On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:04:28 -0700, rodolfo.garcia44 wrote:

>>>

>>>> On Oct 16, 6:03 am, Summercool <Summercooln...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>> After installing Ubuntu, it seemed that everything on my Drive C: was

>>>>> lost.

>>>>>

>>>>> After hours of trying, it really turned out I lost EVERYTHING on my C:

>>>>> drive.

>>>>>

>>>>> So I had to reformat the whole C: drive, and reinstall Vista on it.

>>>>>

>>>>> I lost all my bookmarks, in both IE and Firefox.

>>>>>

>>>>> I needed to reinstall every single application.

>>>>>

>>>>> I needed to reinstall all security update for Vista all over again.

>>>>>

>>>>> I wasted at least 5, 6 hours.

>>>>>

>>>>> How can "Ubuntu - Humanity towards others" erases people's whole hard

>>>>> drive without a single warning?

>>>>>

>>>>> Think about it, some people may lose tens or hundreds of hours of

>>>>> work,

>>>>> or 4, 5 years of photos and memories, just because Ubuntu erases whole

>>>>> hard drive without warning.

>>>>>

>>>>> The following is the install option snapshot: IT NEVER warns you the

>>>>> content in drive C: will be totally erased. What's more, it is set as

>>>>> the DEFAULT ACTION. And it says it is "GUIDED":

>>>>>

>>>>> http://aycu03.webshots.com/image/32522/2001738602340396146_rs.jpg

>>>

>>> It says "Guided - Use entire disk".

>>>

>>> Now what particular part about "Use Entire Disk" is beyond your

>>> comprehension?

>>>

>>>

>>

>>

>> There's also an option to use free space.

>> caver1

>

> This issue is down to what the target market for Linux is.

> If it is to take over the desktop then it has to be targeted at the

> level of a moron so that almost anyone can install it without getting

> unfixable problems.

> This means you can't assume the user understands what a disk is.. after

> all a lot of people think the case is a CPU.

>

> This is Linux's biggest problem.. too many developers and users over

> estimate the knowledge of their target users.

> Until the developers sort out the installation routines Linux will not

> be mass market as it still relies on someone being able to download it

> and install it.

> Making it so that only ~5% of users can install it without problems

> stops the ~95% from using it.

> Linux developers haven't even worked out that users don't read manuals

> by the sound of it.

>

> Having worked in the telecoms industry I can assure you that you can

> *never* underestimate how dumb users are (well at least a lot of them).

>

 

Which is why a lot of computer stores here are pre installing Ubuntu,

even though it really is easier to install than Windows. Most Windows

users, as you know, use a computer with Windows preinstalled. Why should

it be any different with Ubuntu?

 

--

Alias

To email me, remove shoes

"Alias" <iamalias@shoesgmail.com> wrote in message

news:ff4i5c$aj0$1@aioe.org...

>

> Which is why a lot of computer stores here are pre installing Ubuntu, even

> though it really is easier to install than Windows. Most Windows users, as

> you know, use a computer with Windows preinstalled. Why should it be any

> different with Ubuntu?

 

Because it is.

If you can't see that it is different then you are unlikely to be a part of

the solution.

dennis@home wrote:

>

> "Alias" <iamalias@shoesgmail.com> wrote in message

> news:ff4i5c$aj0$1@aioe.org...

>

>>

>> Which is why a lot of computer stores here are pre-installing Ubuntu,

>> even though it really is easier to install than Windows. Most Windows

>> users, as you know, use a computer with Windows preinstalled. Why

>> should it be any different with Ubuntu?

>

> Because it is.

> If you can't see that it is different then you are unlikely to be a part

> of the solution.

 

What did you not understand when I wrote "Which is why a lot of computer

stores here are pre-installing Ubuntu"? I have ten people lined up who

want to pay me to install Gutsy for them because they are afraid of

doing it themselves, just as they are afraid to install Windows themselves.

 

Fortunately, Ubuntu is easier to install than Windows and the latest

version will support *any* hardware that Mac supports. Ubuntu is

evolving and Windows is hung up on pirates and most of the "development"

involves the new WGA versions, controlling the users' computers and

stricter activation.

 

--

Alias

To email me, remove shoes

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 09:14:46 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

> "caver1" <caver@inthemud.com> wrote in message

> news:eClxAUGEIHA.2004@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>> Stephan Rose wrote:

>>> On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:04:28 -0700, rodolfo.garcia44 wrote:

>>>

>>>> On Oct 16, 6:03 am, Summercool <Summercooln...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>> After installing Ubuntu, it seemed that everything on my Drive C:

>>>>> was lost.

>>>>>

>>>>> After hours of trying, it really turned out I lost EVERYTHING on my

>>>>> C: drive.

>>>>>

>>>>> So I had to reformat the whole C: drive, and reinstall Vista on it.

>>>>>

>>>>> I lost all my bookmarks, in both IE and Firefox.

>>>>>

>>>>> I needed to reinstall every single application.

>>>>>

>>>>> I needed to reinstall all security update for Vista all over again.

>>>>>

>>>>> I wasted at least 5, 6 hours.

>>>>>

>>>>> How can "Ubuntu - Humanity towards others" erases people's whole

>>>>> hard drive without a single warning?

>>>>>

>>>>> Think about it, some people may lose tens or hundreds of hours of

>>>>> work, or 4, 5 years of photos and memories, just because Ubuntu

>>>>> erases whole hard drive without warning.

>>>>>

>>>>> The following is the install option snapshot: IT NEVER warns you the

>>>>> content in drive C: will be totally erased. What's more, it is set

>>>>> as the DEFAULT ACTION. And it says it is "GUIDED":

>>>>>

>>>>> http://aycu03.webshots.com/image/32522/2001738602340396146_rs.jpg

>>>

>>> It says "Guided - Use entire disk".

>>>

>>> Now what particular part about "Use Entire Disk" is beyond your

>>> comprehension?

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>

>> There's also an option to use free space. caver1

>

> This issue is down to what the target market for Linux is. If it is to

> take over the desktop then it has to be targeted at the level of a moron

> so that almost anyone can install it without getting unfixable problems.

> This means you can't assume the user understands what a disk is.. after

> all a lot of people think the case is a CPU.

 

Then why does Windows ask about partitioning and formatting when doing an

install?

 

>

> This is Linux's biggest problem.. too many developers and users over

> estimate the knowledge of their target users. Until the developers sort

> out the installation routines Linux will not be mass market as it still

> relies on someone being able to download it and install it.

 

Hopefully more vendors, especially visible ones like Dell, will start

shipping Linux pre-installed.

 

> Making it so that only ~5% of users can install it without problems

> stops the ~95% from using it.

 

How many people can properly install Windows?

> Linux developers haven't even worked out that users don't read manuals

> by the sound of it.

 

People don't read manuals when running any software, for the most part.

They don't read them when setting up stereos and VCRs, either.

>

> Having worked in the telecoms industry I can assure you that you can

> *never* underestimate how dumb users are (well at least a lot of them).

 

 

--

Rick

In article <13hbqqpq50pen00@news.supernews.com>, none@nomail.com says...

> Hopefully more vendors, especially visible ones like Dell, will start

> shipping Linux pre-installed.

 

Lets hope they wait until Linux has gained mass hardware support from

vendors so that customers are not limited.

 

--

Leythos - spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 to email me)

 

Fight exposing kids to porn, complain about sites like pcbutts1 that

create filth and put it on the web for any kid to see: Just take a look

at some of the FILTH he's created and put on his website:

http://forums.speedguide.net/archive/index.php/t-223485.html all exposed

to children (the link I've include does not directly display his filth).

You can find the same information by googling for 'PCBUTTS1' and

'exposed to kids'.

dennis@home wrote:

>

> "caver1" <caver@inthemud.com> wrote in message

> news:eClxAUGEIHA.2004@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>> Stephan Rose wrote:

>>> On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:04:28 -0700, rodolfo.garcia44 wrote:

>>>

>>>> On Oct 16, 6:03 am, Summercool <Summercooln...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>> After installing Ubuntu, it seemed that everything on my Drive C: was

>>>>> lost.

>>>>>

>>>>> After hours of trying, it really turned out I lost EVERYTHING on my C:

>>>>> drive.

>>>>>

>>>>> So I had to reformat the whole C: drive, and reinstall Vista on it.

>>>>>

>>>>> I lost all my bookmarks, in both IE and Firefox.

>>>>>

>>>>> I needed to reinstall every single application.

>>>>>

>>>>> I needed to reinstall all security update for Vista all over again.

>>>>>

>>>>> I wasted at least 5, 6 hours.

>>>>>

>>>>> How can "Ubuntu - Humanity towards others" erases people's whole hard

>>>>> drive without a single warning?

>>>>>

>>>>> Think about it, some people may lose tens or hundreds of hours of

>>>>> work,

>>>>> or 4, 5 years of photos and memories, just because Ubuntu erases whole

>>>>> hard drive without warning.

>>>>>

>>>>> The following is the install option snapshot: IT NEVER warns you the

>>>>> content in drive C: will be totally erased. What's more, it is set as

>>>>> the DEFAULT ACTION. And it says it is "GUIDED":

>>>>>

>>>>> http://aycu03.webshots.com/image/32522/2001738602340396146_rs.jpg

>>>

>>> It says "Guided - Use entire disk".

>>>

>>> Now what particular part about "Use Entire Disk" is beyond your

>>> comprehension?

>>>

>>>

>>

>>

>> There's also an option to use free space.

>> caver1

>

> This issue is down to what the target market for Linux is.

> If it is to take over the desktop then it has to be targeted at the

> level of a moron so that almost anyone can install it without getting

> unfixable problems.

> This means you can't assume the user understands what a disk is.. after

> all a lot of people think the case is a CPU.

>

> This is Linux's biggest problem.. too many developers and users over

> estimate the knowledge of their target users.

> Until the developers sort out the installation routines Linux will not

> be mass market as it still relies on someone being able to download it

> and install it.

> Making it so that only ~5% of users can install it without problems

> stops the ~95% from using it.

> Linux developers haven't even worked out that users don't read manuals

> by the sound of it.

>

> Having worked in the telecoms industry I can assure you that you can

> *never* underestimate how dumb users are (well at least a lot of them).

>

 

 

If a a person has no idea what a disc is, let alone a partition, then

that person

has no business installing an OS. And if they do try without the proper

backups

and research, then they can't blame the OS no matter if it is

Linux,Windows or whatever.

caver1

caver1 wrote:

> dennis@home wrote:

>>

< snip >

>>> There's also an option to use free space.

>>> caver1

>>

>> This issue is down to what the target market for Linux is.

>> If it is to take over the desktop then it has to be targeted at the

>> level of a moron so that almost anyone can install it without getting

>> unfixable problems.

>> This means you can't assume the user understands what a disk is.. after

>> all a lot of people think the case is a CPU.

>>

>> This is Linux's biggest problem.. too many developers and users over

>> estimate the knowledge of their target users.

>> Until the developers sort out the installation routines Linux will not

>> be mass market as it still relies on someone being able to download it

>> and install it.

>> Making it so that only ~5% of users can install it without problems

>> stops the ~95% from using it.

>> Linux developers haven't even worked out that users don't read manuals

>> by the sound of it.

>>

>> Having worked in the telecoms industry I can assure you that you can

>> *never* underestimate how dumb users are (well at least a lot of them).

>>

>

>

> If a a person has no idea what a disc is, let alone a partition, then

> that person

> has no business installing an OS. And if they do try without the proper

> backups

> and research, then they can't blame the OS no matter if it is

> Linux,Windows or whatever.

 

You are talking to dennis the "MD5 guru"

 

In short, it can't get any dumber and more clueless than him

 

--

Law of Probable Dispersal:

Whatever it is that hits the fan will not be evenly distributed.

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 09:14:46 +0100, "dennis@home"

<dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote:

 

>This issue is down to what the target market for Linux is.

>If it is to take over the desktop then it has to be targeted at the level of

>a moron so that almost anyone can install it without getting unfixable

>problems.

>This means you can't assume the user understands what a disk is.. after all

>a lot of people think the case is a CPU.

>

>This is Linux's biggest problem.. too many developers and users over

>estimate the knowledge of their target users.

 

I would never over estimate your knowledge or intelligence. How's

walking and chewing gum at the same time working out for you Dennis?

Do you know how to do it yet?

 

I keep telling you what your problem is. You disrespect everyone, call

them morons and fake being an expert yourself. Then you wonder why I

keep referring to you as some pompous jackass. You redefine the term

slow learner. That's because you don't see that's how you are thought

of here.

>Having worked in the telecoms industry I can assure you that you can *never*

>underestimate how dumb users are (well at least a lot of them).

 

Of course you think you're as smart as a pistol right? You keep

implying it. After all that's what you've been trying to tell us for

months now. Well sorry fool, I'm not buying your act. Neither will

anyone else. Well, maybe Frank will, he'll believe anything if you

first tell him Microsoft said so.

I have been a Linux user for 12 years and do not use Windows at

home. So I hope that this statement will make it clear that I am not a

Windows zealot.

 

Windows is not worth using for many reasons, but that does not mean

that Linux is perfect.

 

That said, it my firm opinion that though Linux install process has

made progress, it still SUCKS as far as

 

- Providing 100% clear, understandable instructions and help

- Giving user control over partitioning using a simple language (other

than /dev/sde1 etc)

- controlling settings of grub

 

Windows install sucks even more, of course, since it blows out other

operating systems without choice. But Linux setup sucks as well. It

needs to be addressed and worked on as a large project.

 

i

On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 23:25:09 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

> "Stephan Rose" <nospam@spammer.com> wrote in message

> news:yqqdneUOjLVLuojanZ2dnUVZ8s3inZ2d@giganews.com...

>> On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 21:02:16 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

>>

>>> "lee h" <noti@domain.invalid> wrote in message

>>> news:MM7Ri.10622$lD6.5170@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...

>>>> rodolfo.garcia44@gmail.com wrote:

>>>>> On Oct 16, 6:03 am, Summercool <Summercooln...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>>> After installing Ubuntu, it seemed that everything on my Drive C:

>>>>>> was lost.

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>> For the simplest Ubuntu install on a windows box, use Wubi (Windows

>>>> Ubuntu Installer).

>>>

>>> Its a bit too late for that.

>>> The lack of a suitable warning has made sure another potential Linux

>>> user will stick with something else.

>>> This is the problem with Linux .. it is written by geeks who have no

>>> idea how simple it has to be for the mass market. Windows would have

>>> warned the user at least twice before removing a Linux partition and

>>> that would be after selecting the partition and saying delete.

>>

>> Oh come on Dennis...

>>

>> What part about "Guided - Use entire disk" is difficult to understand?

>> I mean it frigging says "entire disk" right next to it!!!

>

> Well that assumes the installer knows what a disk is to start with. If

> they select manual then they get presented with even more problems.

 

Someone that does NOT KNOW what a disk is has absolutely no business

installing an operating system. Windows included because you also have to

know what a disk and a partition is to install windows!

 

Else, how would one choose the appropriate disk/partition when installing

windows if one doesn't even know what that is?

>

>> How can you blame the OS Installer if the user is incapable of reading

>> the whole sentence?

>>

>> Also, the Ubuntu installer will show a list of partition / file system

>> changes it makes to what drives and what partition that the user has to

>> OK before actually doing it.

>>

>> So you can't even accidentally click continue and overwrite the system.

>> You need to do so twice.

>

> At no time does it actually tell the user that the data on their system

> will be lost if they proceed.

 

Really?

 

http://fosswire.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/

ubuntufeistyinstallpicture-8.png

 

Same URL tiny:

http://tinyurl.com/2qc234

 

Then please explain to me the meaning of this sentence on the screenshot

above:

 

"WARNING: This will destroy all data on any partitions you have removed

as well as on the partitions that are going to be formatted."

> As I said before Linux expects the user to know too much. It was written

> by geeks who either don't understand the target audience or don't expect

> Linux to be used by the masses.

 

It isn't too much to expect someone to know how their computer works if

they're going to install an OPERATING SYSTEM on it. Installing an OS

isn't installing notepad for crying out loud! And this is no different

installing Vista or XP!

>

>> Also, how is this different from installing XP or Vista?

>>

>> Last time I checked, XP and Vista also give you just a list of drives /

>> partitions and you just go pick one to install on, or you can manually

>> configure the partitions. How is that any different? Except of course

>> Vista or XP don't ask a second time just to make sure you didn't make a

>> mistake. I suppose that is one difference.

>

> Except that they will not remove the data from a partition without

> warning the user unlike what you state above. Also if you were truthful

> you would admit that Vista and XP ask twice before removing a partition

> and tell the user that it may contain data that will be lost if they do.

> It even asks twice before it will format one. I suggest you dig out you

> windows disks and try an install as you appear to have forgotten what it

> does.

 

Allright fair enough. I honestly try to avoid installing Windows as much

as possible as I don't like calling India for activation. So windows does

ask twice. Come to think of it, I think I now recall what you are

referring to. I stand corrected there, no problem.

 

So ultimately it now comes down to that the Windows Install procedure is

identical to the Ubuntu Install procedure.

 

- Choose time / keyboard / localization settings.

- Choose disk / partition.

- Install.

 

The only differences may be the order in which the questions are asked,

bid deal...that isn't of any relevance.

 

--

Stephan

2003 Yamaha R6

 

å›ã®ã“ã¨æ€ã„出ã™æ—¥ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯

å›ã®ã“ã¨å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸã¨ããŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 08:12:30 -0500, Ignoramus27577 wrote:

> I have been a Linux user for 12 years and do not use Windows at home. So

> I hope that this statement will make it clear that I am not a Windows

> zealot.

>

> Windows is not worth using for many reasons, but that does not mean that

> Linux is perfect.

>

> That said, it my firm opinion that though Linux install process has made

> progress, it still SUCKS as far as

>

> - Providing 100% clear, understandable instructions and help - Giving

> user control over partitioning using a simple language (other than

> /dev/sde1 etc)

> - controlling settings of grub

 

Well what do you suggest it should use?

 

Should my drive listing look like this?

 

"The big black box in slot number 1 in the big case under my desk?"

"The big black box in slot number 2 in the big case under my desk?"

"The big black box in slot number 3 in the big case under my desk?"

 

Honestly I find

 

/dev/sda

/dev/sdb

/dev/sdc

 

To be perfectly fine and reasonable. If someone can't deal with that

naming convention they have little business installing an OS. The only

way that could be removed is via a recovery disk that is intended to

restore an entire PC to factory defaults.

 

Now that said, I agree that configuring grub could be made a bit easier.

Not that I ever have a need to do so, but I suppose if someone does have

a need to do so or wants other settings than the default, the installer

could give some options regarding setting up grub.

 

Overall though, I find the Ubuntu installer to be reasonably well done.

I've definitely seen and used far worse and I've yet to see someone do it

better.

 

--

Stephan

2003 Yamaha R6

 

å›ã®ã“ã¨æ€ã„出ã™æ—¥ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯

å›ã®ã“ã¨å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸã¨ããŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰

Stephan Rose wrote:

> On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 22:25:41 -0400, caver1 wrote:

>

>> Stephan Rose wrote:

>>> On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:04:28 -0700, rodolfo.garcia44 wrote:

>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> http://aycu03.webshots.com/image/32522/2001738602340396146_rs.jpg

>>> It says "Guided - Use entire disk".

>>>

>>> Now what particular part about "Use Entire Disk" is beyond your

>>> comprehension?

>>>

>>>

>>>

>> There's also an option to use free space. caver1

>

> Not on that screenshot there isn't.

>

> I think the free space option only appears if there acutally *is* free

> space that could be used in the first place or if there is a partition

> that can be safely resized to make free space.

>

> And then, the option will also be called such and won't be called "Use

> entire disk".

>

 

 

I think you are right but wasn't sure enough to say that.

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 07:27:23 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

> <spike1@freenet.co.uk> wrote in message

> news:aeqfu4-0re.ln1@ridcully.ntlworld.com...

>> In the sacred domain of comp.os.linux.advocacy, dennis@home

>> <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> didnst hastily scribble thusly:

>>>

3.0,3.1,3.11,95,98,98se,nt,2000,xp,vista,soaris,fedora,unixware,ubuntu,rmx

>>> and a few I have forgotten.

>>> Which have you installed?

>>

>> Too many.

>>

>>> Do you doubt it?

>>> Have you never installed windows?

>>

>> As I said, Too many times.

>>

>>>> Let's see some proof that linux didn't warn him then, shall we?

>>

>>

>> Didn't think so.

>

> If you are so sure it does you could show the warning. The fact that I

> can't show the warning is just evidence that it doesn't exist.

> You really should try and get the logic correct before demanding

> evidence.

 

http://fosswire.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/

ubuntufeistyinstallpicture-8.png

 

Same URL tiny:

http://tinyurl.com/2qc234

 

--

Stephan

2003 Yamaha R6

 

å›ã®ã“ã¨æ€ã„出ã™æ—¥ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯

å›ã®ã“ã¨å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸã¨ããŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰

On 2007-10-17, Stephan Rose <nospam.noway@screwspammers.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 08:12:30 -0500, Ignoramus27577 wrote:

>

>> I have been a Linux user for 12 years and do not use Windows at home. So

>> I hope that this statement will make it clear that I am not a Windows

>> zealot.

>>

>> Windows is not worth using for many reasons, but that does not mean that

>> Linux is perfect.

>>

>> That said, it my firm opinion that though Linux install process has made

>> progress, it still SUCKS as far as

>>

>> - Providing 100% clear, understandable instructions and help - Giving

>> user control over partitioning using a simple language (other than

>> /dev/sde1 etc)

>> - controlling settings of grub

>

> Well what do you suggest it should use?

 

How about:

 

SATA Drive 1, Partition 1 (currently not formatted)

IDE Drive 2, Partition 3 (currently has Windows)

 

etc

> Should my drive listing look like this?

>

> "The big black box in slot number 1 in the big case under my desk?"

> "The big black box in slot number 2 in the big case under my desk?"

> "The big black box in slot number 3 in the big case under my desk?"

>

> Honestly I find

>

> /dev/sda

> /dev/sdb

> /dev/sdc

>

> To be perfectly fine and reasonable.

 

I do too, but my parents would not.

> If someone can't deal with that naming convention they have little

> business installing an OS.

 

That is presumptious.

> The only way that could be removed is via a recovery disk that is

> intended to restore an entire PC to factory defaults.

>

> Now that said, I agree that configuring grub could be made a bit easier.

> Not that I ever have a need to do so, but I suppose if someone does have

> a need to do so or wants other settings than the default, the installer

> could give some options regarding setting up grub.

 

I could donate actual $1,000 USD if someone serious took on and

undertook a complete install/GRUB config redesign. I am talking about

real money and I am serious.

> Overall though, I find the Ubuntu installer to be reasonably well done.

> I've definitely seen and used far worse and I've yet to see someone do it

> better.

 

Does not mean that it no longer needs improvements.

 

i