class action lawsuit

October 3, 200717 yr

So why don't we say...

Tibery-OS sucks and that's all you have to know. Tibery-OS is doomed.

Forget about him. He is already good as dead. So look ahead into a better

and brighter future without him.

Get a life, give your PC to charity, and go fill out applications at your

local Wal-Mart. I hear those blue jackets are nice this time of year. You

can be the official "welcome wagon" at the front door. Just FYI.

"Tibery-OS" <Tib@OS.com> wrote in message

news:470370b6$1@newsgate.x-privat.org...

> Why clarify man? He says vista sucks and that's all you have to know

>

> What would it help if he told you one feature sucks or the other?

>

> Overall it sucks and its not fixable because the stupidness of vista

> is too well integrated with that darn OS.

>

> If MS was willing to haul in vista and rewrite it from scratch THEN we

> might be giving you detailed answers. But SP are not rewrites... the

> mainly fix some issues,

> and add some stuff (not even that will happen in sp1 they wont be adding

> anything). MS is stuck with a monster they created and simply cannot go

> back now!

>

> The problem with vista starts with its very idea about what an OS should

> be... this lack of understanding is surprising.... MS had the experience

> but Vista shows

> that the people working on it, either were newbies fresh out of collages,

> or the people guiding the teams were new to this and have no idea what

> people want.

>

> Vista is doomed.... forget about it. Its already good as dead...

>

> so look ahead into a better and brighter future..

>

> "Mike Brannigan" <Mike.Brannigan@localhost> wrote in message

> news:7294EDC8-AA1F-4232-A9A5-F9362C15F6C2@microsoft.com...

>> "wheelman" <wheelman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>> news:D5A14001-8126-4912-B176-1C846B622A05@microsoft.com...

>>> see what im saying.some one all ways comes on and messes with us,when we

>>> are

>>> talking about how defective vista is and all the problems every one is

>>> haveing.

>>>

>>> they want to take up for microsoft who is screwing us to no end.we know

>>> he

>>> sees the post here and how all are negitive.so is microsoft paying these

>>> guys

>>> to jump in our post and mess with us,i wouldnt put it past them..i have

>>> been

>>> trying for four months to strighten out this os..you get one thing to

>>> work

>>> and it does something else so something want work.im

>>>

>>> done with complaining.we need a class action law suit..it would be so

>>> great

>>> to give it back to the people,thats doing it to us..and to the people

>>> that

>>> want to come into our post..and mess with us,take a hike,you are not

>>> wanted...

>>>

>>

>> So you are still avoiding the issue - if you want a class action suit

>> then you need to clearly state what you think is defective (in detail)

>> about Windows Vista.

>> So fare you have said nothing , so one one is going to take you

>> seriously.

>> I doubt any lawyer is going to take you up on this is you are not capable

>> of even beginning to clearly state the nature of the defects you wish to

>> site in the suit.

>> So come on provide the details now if you really think you have a case.

>>

>> And as regards

>>>and to the people that

>>> want to come into our post..and mess with us,take a hike,you are not

>>> wanted...

>> You know that is the point of posting a discussion? - to have one !. So

>> me asking you to provide detail is not "messing with your post" - but

>> asking you to clarify the nature of your issues. If you can't do that

>> then you have no case.

>> --

>> Mike Brannigan

>>

>> "wheelman" <wheelman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>> news:D5A14001-8126-4912-B176-1C846B622A05@microsoft.com...

>>> see what im saying.some one all ways comes on and messes with us,when we

>>> are

>>> talking about how defective vista is and all the problems every one is

>>> haveing.

>>>

>>> they want to take up for microsoft who is screwing us to no end.we know

>>> he

>>> sees the post here and how all are negitive.so is microsoft paying these

>>> guys

>>> to jump in our post and mess with us,i wouldnt put it past them..i have

>>> been

>>> trying for four months to strighten out this os..you get one thing to

>>> work

>>> and it does something else so something want work.im

>>>

>>> done with complaining.we need a class action law suit..it would be so

>>> great

>>> to give it back to the people,thats doing it to us..and to the people

>>> that

>>> want to come into our post..and mess with us,take a hike,you are not

>>> wanted...

>>>

>>> "Mike Brannigan" wrote:

>>>

>>>> "wheelman" <wheelman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>>>> news:D17EF881-3302-471E-BECA-09BDEE8B5BD9@microsoft.com...

>>>> > looks like there would be some lawyer some where,that would start a

>>>> > class

>>>> > action lawsuit for us.maybe thats what microsoft needs..they sure do

>>>> > not

>>>> > care

>>>> > about us or putting out a defective product..bill gates likes to give

>>>> > away

>>>> > money to charities,that he stole from us,maybe we could take back

>>>> > some of

>>>> > the

>>>> > billions,he and his company cheated us out of..i know after months of

>>>> > this

>>>> > defective,vista os,i would sign up..if they are not stoped ,they are

>>>> > just

>>>> > going to continue to make and sell more defective,,products..lets get

>>>> > this

>>>> > lawsuit started...

>>>>

>>>> You have not yet managed to make any actual definitive statement in any

>>>> of

>>>> your recent posts that clearly state why you believe Windows Vista is

>>>> "defective".

>>>> It is not use just shout you don't like it or it does not work with

>>>> your old

>>>> application or hardware due to app compat or driver issues.

>>>> Frankly there are millions of users of Vista world world that are not

>>>> seeing

>>>> a defective product and certainly thousands of users that I have

>>>> deployed

>>>> Vista too that are fully functional without issue or concern.

>>>>

>>>> So why not post your actual definite, clearly articulated and detailed

>>>> point

>>>> by point analysis of why you believe Vista is "defective" - remember if

>>>> you

>>>> really want a class action suit will need to be able to do this so that

>>>> each

>>>> point can be investigated in detail to see if it really is a defect.

>>>>

>>>> So please do post back with your complete detailed list of points.

>>>>

>>>> --

>>>>

>>>> Mike Brannigan

>>>>

>>

>

Quote

Mark as Solution

October 3, 200717 yr

Tibery-OS wrote:

> look, its not my fault that you cannot see that the world is round and not

> flat..

>

> what do you want me to say... its alright to say the world is flat and just

> hush up about the world being round?

>

> No Sir, that will not happen.

>

> I am correct and you will see that I am correct... with time.. or you will

> insist vista is great until you are the only one left who believes so!

>

> "Universe_JDJ" <universejdj@gmail.com> wrote in message

> news:1191408748.149793.158850@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...

>

>>On Oct 3, 8:28 pm, "Tibery-OS" <T...@OS.com> wrote:

>>

>>>You dont get it do you? Vista is so badly designed that its unfixable.

>>>Not even with a service pack will vista be saved.

>>>

>>

>>How about you stop your "Vista is evil" preaching and go back to your

>>hole in the ground. If you don't like Vista - that's fine but don't go

>>around posting as if your opinion is the only correct opinion in the

>>world. You instantly dismiss the opinions of others (without any sense

>>of reason whatsoever) and if you don't like Vista, what are you doing

>>in this newsgroup? You aren't helping anyone, and honestly no-one

>>would care if you left.

>>

>

You're just a fukkin idiot and we all know it.

Craw back into that cardboard space ship and don't get out again.!

Frank

Quote

Mark as Solution

October 3, 200717 yr

Tibery-OS wrote:

> Why clarify man? He says vista sucks and that's all you have to know

hehehe...yeah go tell that to a lawyer and he'll say, "and so does my

girlfriend/wife/hooker"!

You are without a doubt the most ridiculous and stupid of all the Vista

haters who stop here to take a crap.

Get a real life you idiot. Your opinion is yours alone. It's so obvious

that you know nothing at all about computers.

Frank

Quote

Mark as Solution

October 3, 200717 yr

Alias wrote:

> Mike Brannigan wrote:

>

>> "Tibery-OS" <Tib@OS.com> wrote in message

>> news:470370b6$1@newsgate.x-privat.org...

>>

>>> Why clarify man? He says vista sucks and that's all you have to know

>>>

>>> What would it help if he told you one feature sucks or the other?

>>>

>>> Overall it sucks and its not fixable because the stupidness of vista

>>> is too well integrated with that darn OS.

>>>

>>> If MS was willing to haul in vista and rewrite it from scratch THEN

>>> we might be giving you detailed answers. But SP are not rewrites...

>>> the mainly fix some issues,

>>> and add some stuff (not even that will happen in sp1 they wont be

>>> adding anything). MS is stuck with a monster they created and simply

>>> cannot go back now!

>>>

>>> The problem with vista starts with its very idea about what an OS

>>> should be... this lack of understanding is surprising.... MS had the

>>> experience but Vista shows

>>> that the people working on it, either were newbies fresh out of

>>> collages, or the people guiding the teams were new to this and have

>>> no idea what people want.

>>>

>>> Vista is doomed.... forget about it. Its already good as dead...

>>>

>>> so look ahead into a better and brighter future..

>>>

>>

>> He is asking for a class action suit and cannot (as yet) actually

>> justify his claims of defects.

>> Unless he can come back with a detailed list of so called defects he

>> does not have a case.

>> You are not helping either as again you are just using the the "vista

>> sucks and that's all you have to know" acquisition against the

>> product. Again meaningless ,so yes we would all like to see that list

>> of defects provide in detail and not just some this doesn't work like

>> it did in XP or it's "stupid" childish approaches.

>>

>> Microsoft do not have to withdrawn anything to get you to provide

>> "detailed answers" if you don't provide it now how do you expect

>> anyone (including Microsoft) to actually understand what your problems

>> are then triage them for fixing etc.

>> Again it is no good stamping your feet like a petulant child and

>> saying "they have to rewrite it" and yet not provide the detail anyone

>> would expect for such as demand or a class action suit.

>>

>> Please by all means when you provide the detail of defects - also

>> include your better then Microsoft's understanding of "the very idea

>> about what an OS should be"

>> So lets have the detail of defects and then your view of an OS.

>> It really is as simple as if you cannot provide the list of defects

>> then you might as well refrain from any further postulating with

>> "vista is doomed .. dead" etc.

>

> Off the top of my head, here are some of the defects:

>

> WPA

> WGA

> WGA/N

> UAC

> Indexing

> "Search"

> No Compiz-Fusion

> Clunky, fixed Windows

> IE7

> WMP 11

> DRM

> Price is waaaaaaaaaaaay too high in Europe, i.e., over 800 US Dollars

> for Ultimate Retail.

> No 3D Cube

> Only one desktop

> The need for a high end computer to run it.

>

> That said, a class action suit is stupid. If one doesn't want or like

> Vista, there are plenty of better alternatives including XP.

>

Fukk you! You don't have, nor have you ever had, Vista installed on your

computer. So what you post is nothing but more of your lies.

Loser.

Frank

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October 3, 200717 yr

Alias wrote:

> Mike Brannigan wrote:

>

>> "Alias" <iamalias@shoesgmail.com> wrote in message

>> news:fdvsrk$m1$1@aioe.org...

>>

>>>

>>> Off the top of my head, here are some of the defects:

>>>

>>> WPA

>>> WGA

>>> WGA/N

>>> UAC

>>> Indexing

>>> "Search"

>>

>> All the above are product features not defects - unless you can state

>> some specific areas where that feature breaks or is defective (your

>> personal opinion as to the use of WGA or WPA should exist are not

>> relevent) then these are not valid.

>

> I consider these additions to be unnecessary and cause grief to the end

> user. That, I would say, is a defect.

>

>>

>>> No Compiz-Fusion

>>

>> Sorry no idea what that means

>

> http://www.google.com

>

>>

>>> Clunky, fixed Windows

>>

>> Look and feel of the OS is not a defect but a design decision and does

>> not impact functionality of the product.

>

> It ain't groovy and I like my computer to be groovy.

>

>>

>>> IE7

>>> WMP 11

>>> DRM

>>

>> Again just features or technologies - you have not stated what the

>> defect is.

>

> DRM and IE7 is so virus prone, clunky and ugly.

>

>>

>>> Price is waaaaaaaaaaaay too high in Europe, i.e., over 800 US Dollars

>>> for Ultimate Retail.

>>

>> Windows Ultimate Retail is about £234.04 (UK) which is appox$450 USD.

>> I see no problem with that as retail US is $319.99 (USD)

>> [source UK - http://www.ebuyer.com , US - http://www.newegg.com]

>> Of course price comparison is tricky at the moment with USD being so

>> week against other currencies e.g. $1 USD is now £0.45 UK

>

> In Spain, it costs over 800 US dollars for Windows Ultimate Retail. This

> is a rip off.

>

>>

>>> No 3D Cube

>>> Only one desktop

>>

>> Neither of these are defects - they are just UI features that are not

>> in the product. This is no more a defect then one car having a sun

>> roof and the other having air conditioning.

>

> Not having more than one desktop is a defect. No 3D cube isn't groovy.

>

>>

>>> The need for a high end computer to run it.

>>>

>>

>> Again not a defect - Windows Vista Basic has an extremely low minimum

>> specification. And an increase in required spec is not a defect for a

>> new product with greater features and functionality over the previous

>> version. You might as well say Windows XP is defective when you

>> compare the min requirements to those of Windows 3.1.

>

> The latest Ubuntu need not be run on a high end computer. If Open Source

> can do it, why can't MS?

>

>>

>>> That said, a class action suit is stupid. If one doesn't want or like

>>> Vista, there are plenty of better alternatives including XP.

>>>

>>

>> Indeed.

>>

>>> --

>>> Alias

>>> To email me, remove shoes

>>

>

More lies from our resident lying POS linux lovin loser!

Get lost as*hole!

Frank

Quote

Mark as Solution

October 3, 200717 yr

"The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'"

<none@none.not> wrote in message news:fe0d8c$irm$1@aioe.org...

> Dwarf wrote:

>> Not once in this entire thread have I seen ANY concrete evidence being

>> provided about 'defects' in Vista. Those 'defects' that have been

>> mentioned are features in the OS, most of which can be disabled if you do

>> not wish to use them. Of course, you are entitled to your views and

>> opinions, but remember that nobody is forcing you to use Vista, or indeed

>> any Microsoft product.

>

> One of those 'features' of vista is the stealth updates. Where is it

> documented how to turn that off?

>

Just so we can kill this one now - what do you mean by "stealth updates"

If you are referring to the updates that any machine that is using Windows

Update receive to the update engine - that is it is in ANY setting other

then the one on the dialog which is labeled "Never Check for Updates" - this

is hardly a stealth update since you have you machine configured to contact

WU and therefore it is only sensible for any WU updates to the client side

engine be pushed to the machine - otherwise how do you think it would work

?? It would not, you could be in a position not getting notified of

available updates due to the WU engine on your machine not working

correctly.

So with that aside - what "stealth updates"?

--

Mike Brannigan

"The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'"

<none@none.not> wrote in message news:fe0d8c$irm$1@aioe.org...

> Dwarf wrote:

>> Not once in this entire thread have I seen ANY concrete evidence being

>> provided about 'defects' in Vista. Those 'defects' that have been

>> mentioned are features in the OS, most of which can be disabled if you do

>> not wish to use them. Of course, you are entitled to your views and

>> opinions, but remember that nobody is forcing you to use Vista, or indeed

>> any Microsoft product.

>

> One of those 'features' of vista is the stealth updates. Where is it

> documented how to turn that off?

>

>>

>> "wheelman" wrote:

>>

>>> looks like there would be some lawyer some where,that would start a

>>> class action lawsuit for us.maybe thats what microsoft needs..they sure

>>> do not care about us or putting out a defective product..bill gates

>>> likes to give away money to charities,that he stole from us,maybe we

>>> could take back some of the billions,he and his company cheated us out

>>> of..i know after months of this defective,vista os,i would sign up..if

>>> they are not stoped ,they are just going to continue to make and sell

>>> more defective,,products..lets get this lawsuit started...

>

> --

> Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:

> http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

>

> "Fair use is not merely a nice concept--it is a federal law based on free

> speech rights under the First Amendment and is a cornerstone of the

> creativity and innovation that is a hallmark of this country. Consumer

> rights in the digital age are not frivolous."

> - Maura Corbett

Quote

Mark as Solution

October 3, 200717 yr

Alias wrote:

> Mike Brannigan wrote:

>

>> "Alias" <iamalias@shoesgmail.com> wrote in message

>> news:fdvv3p$7jf$1@aioe.org...

>>

>>> Mike Brannigan wrote:

>>>

>>>> "Alias" <iamalias@shoesgmail.com> wrote in message

>>>> news:fdvsrk$m1$1@aioe.org...

>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Off the top of my head, here are some of the defects:

>>>>>

>>>>> WPA

>>>>> WGA

>>>>> WGA/N

>>>>> UAC

>>>>> Indexing

>>>>> "Search"

>>>>

>>>> All the above are product features not defects - unless you can

>>>> state some specific areas where that feature breaks or is defective

>>>> (your personal opinion as to the use of WGA or WPA should exist are

>>>> not relevent) then these are not valid.

>>>

>>> I consider these additions to be unnecessary and cause grief to the

>>> end user. That, I would say, is a defect.

>>>

>>

>> No - not a defect - you person opinion as to if you like a feature or

>> function is not valid as defect. A defect is a feature or function

>> that does not perform as designed etc.

>

> OK, not your definition of a defect but unnecessary and causes grief to

> the end user, which, to me, is a defect.

>

>>

>>>>

>>>>> No Compiz-Fusion

>>>>

>>>> Sorry no idea what that means

>>>

>>> http://www.google.com

>>>

>>

>> So again more UI nonsense and thus a feature request and not a defect.

>

> Not up to par better?

>

>>

>>>>

>>>>> Clunky, fixed Windows

>>>>

>>>> Look and feel of the OS is not a defect but a design decision and

>>>> does not impact functionality of the product.

>>>

>>> It ain't groovy and I like my computer to be groovy.

>>>

>>

>> But again NOT a defect. Just you want a fancier UI then aero. This

>> is just a product request and thus no basis for a class action suit or

>> general bitches about the product being defective.

>

> I said a class action suit is stupid, remember? Let's use "not up to

> par" instead of defect, OK?

>

>>

>>>>

>>>>> IE7

>>>>> WMP 11

>>>>> DRM

>>>>

>>>> Again just features or technologies - you have not stated what the

>>>> defect is.

>>>

>>> DRM and IE7 is so virus prone, clunky and ugly.

>>>

>>

>> Clucky/Ugly are not defects - that is user perception UI likes or

>> dislikes.

>

> A users likes and dislikes have a lot to do with whether a user will

> purchase something or not. I would say that it is not up to par.

>

>> Attack surface opportunities are not actually defects in most cases -

>> but you could make some claim that they are holes/bugs in the OS that

>> allow malicious code execution. These defects are however addressed

>> in fixes so probably not a great case.

>

> LOL! Windows boxes, in the hundreds of thousands, are part of herd bots

> and you're saying that Windows is secure? That's rich.

>

>>

>>>>

>>>>> Price is waaaaaaaaaaaay too high in Europe, i.e., over 800 US

>>>>> Dollars for Ultimate Retail.

>>>>

>>>> Windows Ultimate Retail is about £234.04 (UK) which is appox$450 USD.

>>>> I see no problem with that as retail US is $319.99 (USD)

>>>> [source UK - http://www.ebuyer.com , US - http://www.newegg.com]

>>>> Of course price comparison is tricky at the moment with USD being so

>>>> week against other currencies e.g. $1 USD is now £0.45 UK

>>>

>>> In Spain, it costs over 800 US dollars for Windows Ultimate Retail.

>>> This is a rip off.

>>>

>>

>> UK - £312 - $620

>> Spain - £395 (http://www.elcorteingles.es) $790

>> US - $320

>

> El Corte Inglés:

>

> http://www.elcorteingles.es/informatica/producto/producto_lst.asp?tlst=00000007&tsel=2&tmar=000000001&orden=&letra=&pagina=2

>

> Windows Vista Ultimate

> Marca: Microsoft

>

> Windows Vista Ultimate es la mejor edición de Windows Vista, con la

> potencia, seguridad y movilidad necesaria para el trabajo, y las

> posibilidades de... (Leer más)

>

> Precio Habitual:

>

> 599 euros

> Desc. (5%):

>

> 29,95

> Precio oferta:

>

> 569,05 euros

>

> 94.682 PTA

>

> 845,61 USD

>

>> Well there are always interesting issues with price - but it is still

>> not a product defect.

>> You can always shop online and internationally.

>

> No US online company that I know of will ship to Spain and let you pay

> the dollar price. They've jumped on the charge them more if they use

> euros or pounds bandwagon.

>

>>>>

>>>>> No 3D Cube

>>>>> Only one desktop

>>>>

>>>> Neither of these are defects - they are just UI features that are

>>>> not in the product. This is no more a defect then one car having a

>>>> sun roof and the other having air conditioning.

>>>

>>> Not having more than one desktop is a defect. No 3D cube isn't groovy.

>>>

>>

>> NO again -you cannot claim a defect for a design decision and

>> functionality - such as multiple desktop tops and other UI features

>> that other operating systems or UI layers on top of other platforms

>> may have. Is your Pickup truck defective because it does not have a

>> Ferrari 530 body ?

>

> OK, not up to par, then. Defect is a bad word to use.

>

>>

>>>>

>>>>> The need for a high end computer to run it.

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Again not a defect - Windows Vista Basic has an extremely low

>>>> minimum specification. And an increase in required spec is not a

>>>> defect for a new product with greater features and functionality

>>>> over the previous version. You might as well say Windows XP is

>>>> defective when you compare the min requirements to those of Windows

>>>> 3.1.

>>>

>>> The latest Ubuntu need not be run on a high end computer. If Open

>>> Source can do it, why can't MS?

>>>

>>

>> SO WHAT !!! - this is not Ubuntu or MacOS etc this is Windows - the

>> minimum spec is specific to this product so again you cannot call

>> "defect" as you cannot compare it to another OS in those terms. (My

>> truck runs on diesel, but my Ferrari uses high octane petrol - neither

>> is in defect they are both motor vehicles but obviously not the same)

>

> OK, not up to par then.

>

>>

>>>>

>>>>> That said, a class action suit is stupid. If one doesn't want or

>>>>> like Vista, there are plenty of better alternatives including XP.

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Indeed.

>>>>

>>>>> --

>>>>> Alias

>>>>> To email me, remove shoes

>>>>

>>>

>>> --

>>> Alias

>>> To email me, remove shoes

>>

>> You are just not getting this - Windows Vista is not Ubuntu or MacOS

>> or any other operating system - (or OS plus a choice of layer UI bits

>> and pieces) - it is Windows Vista. It is no good stamping your feet

>> and saying it does not do this if it was never designed to do that or

>> saying it should do this because the totally different product can do it.

>> This thread was about a person claim that Windows is "defective" - so

>> far neither you or anyone else has yet to actually make a valid case

>> for this.

>>

>

> Right, it isn't defective but not up to par and is not on the bleeding

> edge of computing by any stretch of the imagination. It's just MS

> pushing out an obsolete OS to make money.

>

How would you even know. You don't have Vista.

So stop the lies.

Frank

Quote

Mark as Solution

October 3, 200717 yr

Frank wrote:

> Tibery-OS wrote:

>

>> Why clarify man? He says vista sucks and that's all you have to know

>

> hehehe...yeah go tell that to a lawyer and he'll say, "and so does my

> girlfriend/wife/hooker"!

>

> You are without a doubt the most ridiculous and stupid of all the Vista

> haters who stop here to take a crap.

> Get a real life you idiot. Your opinion is yours alone. It's so obvious

> that you know nothing at all about computers.

> Frank

Once again, Frank proves how educated, polite and classy he is.

--

Alias

To email me, remove shoes

Quote

Mark as Solution

October 3, 200717 yr

Frank wrote:

> Alias wrote:

>

>> Mike Brannigan wrote:

>>

>>> "Tibery-OS" <Tib@OS.com> wrote in message

>>> news:470370b6$1@newsgate.x-privat.org...

>>>

>>>> Why clarify man? He says vista sucks and that's all you have to know

>>>>

>>>> What would it help if he told you one feature sucks or the other?

>>>>

>>>> Overall it sucks and its not fixable because the stupidness of vista

>>>> is too well integrated with that darn OS.

>>>>

>>>> If MS was willing to haul in vista and rewrite it from scratch THEN

>>>> we might be giving you detailed answers. But SP are not rewrites...

>>>> the mainly fix some issues,

>>>> and add some stuff (not even that will happen in sp1 they wont be

>>>> adding anything). MS is stuck with a monster they created and simply

>>>> cannot go back now!

>>>>

>>>> The problem with vista starts with its very idea about what an OS

>>>> should be... this lack of understanding is surprising.... MS had the

>>>> experience but Vista shows

>>>> that the people working on it, either were newbies fresh out of

>>>> collages, or the people guiding the teams were new to this and have

>>>> no idea what people want.

>>>>

>>>> Vista is doomed.... forget about it. Its already good as dead...

>>>>

>>>> so look ahead into a better and brighter future..

>>>>

>>>

>>> He is asking for a class action suit and cannot (as yet) actually

>>> justify his claims of defects.

>>> Unless he can come back with a detailed list of so called defects he

>>> does not have a case.

>>> You are not helping either as again you are just using the the "vista

>>> sucks and that's all you have to know" acquisition against the

>>> product. Again meaningless ,so yes we would all like to see that

>>> list of defects provide in detail and not just some this doesn't work

>>> like it did in XP or it's "stupid" childish approaches.

>>>

>>> Microsoft do not have to withdrawn anything to get you to provide

>>> "detailed answers" if you don't provide it now how do you expect

>>> anyone (including Microsoft) to actually understand what your

>>> problems are then triage them for fixing etc.

>>> Again it is no good stamping your feet like a petulant child and

>>> saying "they have to rewrite it" and yet not provide the detail

>>> anyone would expect for such as demand or a class action suit.

>>>

>>> Please by all means when you provide the detail of defects - also

>>> include your better then Microsoft's understanding of "the very idea

>>> about what an OS should be"

>>> So lets have the detail of defects and then your view of an OS.

>>> It really is as simple as if you cannot provide the list of defects

>>> then you might as well refrain from any further postulating with

>>> "vista is doomed .. dead" etc.

>>

>> Off the top of my head, here are some of the defects:

>>

>> WPA

>> WGA

>> WGA/N

>> UAC

>> Indexing

>> "Search"

>> No Compiz-Fusion

>> Clunky, fixed Windows

>> IE7

>> WMP 11

>> DRM

>> Price is waaaaaaaaaaaay too high in Europe, i.e., over 800 US Dollars

>> for Ultimate Retail.

>> No 3D Cube

>> Only one desktop

>> The need for a high end computer to run it.

>>

>> That said, a class action suit is stupid. If one doesn't want or like

>> Vista, there are plenty of better alternatives including XP.

>>

>

> Fukk you!

No thanks. Sorry, I prefer women.

> You don't have, nor have you ever had, Vista installed on your

> computer.

False. I had it installed and it was so horrible I removed it and

replaced it with a dual boot of XP and Ubuntu.

> So what you post is nothing but more of your lies.

> Loser.

> Frank

Care to refute the issues or merely bluster about and hurl insults? Oh,

I forgot, you haven't been able to refute anyone here so why should I

expect you to start now?

--

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October 3, 200717 yr

Frank wrote:

> Alias wrote:

>

>> Mike Brannigan wrote:

>>

>>> "Alias" <iamalias@shoesgmail.com> wrote in message

>>> news:fdvsrk$m1$1@aioe.org...

>>>

>>>>

>>>> Off the top of my head, here are some of the defects:

>>>>

>>>> WPA

>>>> WGA

>>>> WGA/N

>>>> UAC

>>>> Indexing

>>>> "Search"

>>>

>>> All the above are product features not defects - unless you can state

>>> some specific areas where that feature breaks or is defective (your

>>> personal opinion as to the use of WGA or WPA should exist are not

>>> relevent) then these are not valid.

>>

>> I consider these additions to be unnecessary and cause grief to the

>> end user. That, I would say, is a defect.

>>

>>>

>>>> No Compiz-Fusion

>>>

>>> Sorry no idea what that means

>>

>> http://www.google.com

>>

>>>

>>>> Clunky, fixed Windows

>>>

>>> Look and feel of the OS is not a defect but a design decision and

>>> does not impact functionality of the product.

>>

>> It ain't groovy and I like my computer to be groovy.

>>

>>>

>>>> IE7

>>>> WMP 11

>>>> DRM

>>>

>>> Again just features or technologies - you have not stated what the

>>> defect is.

>>

>> DRM and IE7 is so virus prone, clunky and ugly.

>>

>>>

>>>> Price is waaaaaaaaaaaay too high in Europe, i.e., over 800 US

>>>> Dollars for Ultimate Retail.

>>>

>>> Windows Ultimate Retail is about £234.04 (UK) which is appox$450 USD.

>>> I see no problem with that as retail US is $319.99 (USD)

>>> [source UK - http://www.ebuyer.com , US - http://www.newegg.com]

>>> Of course price comparison is tricky at the moment with USD being so

>>> week against other currencies e.g. $1 USD is now £0.45 UK

>>

>> In Spain, it costs over 800 US dollars for Windows Ultimate Retail.

>> This is a rip off.

>>

>>>

>>>> No 3D Cube

>>>> Only one desktop

>>>

>>> Neither of these are defects - they are just UI features that are not

>>> in the product. This is no more a defect then one car having a sun

>>> roof and the other having air conditioning.

>>

>> Not having more than one desktop is a defect. No 3D cube isn't groovy.

>>

>>>

>>>> The need for a high end computer to run it.

>>>>

>>>

>>> Again not a defect - Windows Vista Basic has an extremely low minimum

>>> specification. And an increase in required spec is not a defect for

>>> a new product with greater features and functionality over the

>>> previous version. You might as well say Windows XP is defective when

>>> you compare the min requirements to those of Windows 3.1.

>>

>> The latest Ubuntu need not be run on a high end computer. If Open

>> Source can do it, why can't MS?

>>

>>>

>>>> That said, a class action suit is stupid. If one doesn't want or

>>>> like Vista, there are plenty of better alternatives including XP.

>>>>

>>>

>>> Indeed.

>>>

>>>> --

>>>> Alias

>>>> To email me, remove shoes

>>>

>>

> More lies from our resident lying POS linux lovin loser!

> Get lost as*hole!

> Frank

Another classless, uneducated and impolite post from vista.general's

buffoon. Yawn.

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October 3, 200717 yr

Tibery-OS wrote:

> your logic is not correct... breaking or defective problems can be fixed

> with service packs...

>

> GET THIS BECAUSE I WILL NOT REPEAT IT:

You promise!!!

>

> Vista cannot be fixed by a service pack because its problems stem from a

> deeper level of conception and design that will not be fixed because service

> packs are only to correct problems NOT redesign an OS.

Oh please mr capin' crunch tell us all about your

industrial/mechanical/computer design expertise and experience ok?

Otherwise just STFU!!!

>

> Now if you cannot understand what the heck im talking about, well you are a

> total idiot!

>

Fukk, you have no idea what you're talking about, you friggn moron!

Frank

Quote

Mark as Solution

October 3, 200717 yr

Frank wrote:

> Alias wrote:

>

>> Mike Brannigan wrote:

>>

>>> "Alias" <iamalias@shoesgmail.com> wrote in message

>>> news:fdvv3p$7jf$1@aioe.org...

>>>

>>>> Mike Brannigan wrote:

>>>>

>>>>> "Alias" <iamalias@shoesgmail.com> wrote in message

>>>>> news:fdvsrk$m1$1@aioe.org...

>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Off the top of my head, here are some of the defects:

>>>>>>

>>>>>> WPA

>>>>>> WGA

>>>>>> WGA/N

>>>>>> UAC

>>>>>> Indexing

>>>>>> "Search"

>>>>>

>>>>> All the above are product features not defects - unless you can

>>>>> state some specific areas where that feature breaks or is defective

>>>>> (your personal opinion as to the use of WGA or WPA should exist are

>>>>> not relevent) then these are not valid.

>>>>

>>>> I consider these additions to be unnecessary and cause grief to the

>>>> end user. That, I would say, is a defect.

>>>>

>>>

>>> No - not a defect - you person opinion as to if you like a feature or

>>> function is not valid as defect. A defect is a feature or function

>>> that does not perform as designed etc.

>>

>> OK, not your definition of a defect but unnecessary and causes grief

>> to the end user, which, to me, is a defect.

>>

>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>> No Compiz-Fusion

>>>>>

>>>>> Sorry no idea what that means

>>>>

>>>> http://www.google.com

>>>>

>>>

>>> So again more UI nonsense and thus a feature request and not a defect.

>>

>> Not up to par better?

>>

>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>> Clunky, fixed Windows

>>>>>

>>>>> Look and feel of the OS is not a defect but a design decision and

>>>>> does not impact functionality of the product.

>>>>

>>>> It ain't groovy and I like my computer to be groovy.

>>>>

>>>

>>> But again NOT a defect. Just you want a fancier UI then aero. This

>>> is just a product request and thus no basis for a class action suit

>>> or general bitches about the product being defective.

>>

>> I said a class action suit is stupid, remember? Let's use "not up to

>> par" instead of defect, OK?

>>

>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>> IE7

>>>>>> WMP 11

>>>>>> DRM

>>>>>

>>>>> Again just features or technologies - you have not stated what the

>>>>> defect is.

>>>>

>>>> DRM and IE7 is so virus prone, clunky and ugly.

>>>>

>>>

>>> Clucky/Ugly are not defects - that is user perception UI likes or

>>> dislikes.

>>

>> A users likes and dislikes have a lot to do with whether a user will

>> purchase something or not. I would say that it is not up to par.

>>

>>> Attack surface opportunities are not actually defects in most cases -

>>> but you could make some claim that they are holes/bugs in the OS that

>>> allow malicious code execution. These defects are however addressed

>>> in fixes so probably not a great case.

>>

>> LOL! Windows boxes, in the hundreds of thousands, are part of herd

>> bots and you're saying that Windows is secure? That's rich.

>>

>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>> Price is waaaaaaaaaaaay too high in Europe, i.e., over 800 US

>>>>>> Dollars for Ultimate Retail.

>>>>>

>>>>> Windows Ultimate Retail is about £234.04 (UK) which is appox$450 USD.

>>>>> I see no problem with that as retail US is $319.99 (USD)

>>>>> [source UK - http://www.ebuyer.com , US - http://www.newegg.com]

>>>>> Of course price comparison is tricky at the moment with USD being

>>>>> so week against other currencies e.g. $1 USD is now £0.45 UK

>>>>

>>>> In Spain, it costs over 800 US dollars for Windows Ultimate Retail.

>>>> This is a rip off.

>>>>

>>>

>>> UK - £312 - $620

>>> Spain - £395 (http://www.elcorteingles.es) $790

>>> US - $320

>>

>> El Corte Inglés:

>>

>> http://www.elcorteingles.es/informatica/producto/producto_lst.asp?tlst=00000007&tsel=2&tmar=000000001&orden=&letra=&pagina=2

>>

>> Windows Vista Ultimate

>> Marca: Microsoft

>>

>> Windows Vista Ultimate es la mejor edición de Windows Vista, con la

>> potencia, seguridad y movilidad necesaria para el trabajo, y las

>> posibilidades de... (Leer más)

>>

>> Precio Habitual:

>>

>> 599 euros

>> Desc. (5%):

>> 29,95

>> Precio oferta:

>> 569,05 euros

>> 94.682 PTA

>> 845,61 USD

>>

>>> Well there are always interesting issues with price - but it is still

>>> not a product defect.

>>> You can always shop online and internationally.

>>

>> No US online company that I know of will ship to Spain and let you pay

>> the dollar price. They've jumped on the charge them more if they use

>> euros or pounds bandwagon.

>>

>>>>>

>>>>>> No 3D Cube

>>>>>> Only one desktop

>>>>>

>>>>> Neither of these are defects - they are just UI features that are

>>>>> not in the product. This is no more a defect then one car having a

>>>>> sun roof and the other having air conditioning.

>>>>

>>>> Not having more than one desktop is a defect. No 3D cube isn't groovy.

>>>>

>>>

>>> NO again -you cannot claim a defect for a design decision and

>>> functionality - such as multiple desktop tops and other UI features

>>> that other operating systems or UI layers on top of other platforms

>>> may have. Is your Pickup truck defective because it does not have a

>>> Ferrari 530 body ?

>>

>> OK, not up to par, then. Defect is a bad word to use.

>>

>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>> The need for a high end computer to run it.

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Again not a defect - Windows Vista Basic has an extremely low

>>>>> minimum specification. And an increase in required spec is not a

>>>>> defect for a new product with greater features and functionality

>>>>> over the previous version. You might as well say Windows XP is

>>>>> defective when you compare the min requirements to those of Windows

>>>>> 3.1.

>>>>

>>>> The latest Ubuntu need not be run on a high end computer. If Open

>>>> Source can do it, why can't MS?

>>>>

>>>

>>> SO WHAT !!! - this is not Ubuntu or MacOS etc this is Windows - the

>>> minimum spec is specific to this product so again you cannot call

>>> "defect" as you cannot compare it to another OS in those terms. (My

>>> truck runs on diesel, but my Ferrari uses high octane petrol -

>>> neither is in defect they are both motor vehicles but obviously not

>>> the same)

>>

>> OK, not up to par then.

>>

>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>> That said, a class action suit is stupid. If one doesn't want or

>>>>>> like Vista, there are plenty of better alternatives including XP.

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Indeed.

>>>>>

>>>>>> --

>>>>>> Alias

>>>>>> To email me, remove shoes

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>> --

>>>> Alias

>>>> To email me, remove shoes

>>>

>>> You are just not getting this - Windows Vista is not Ubuntu or MacOS

>>> or any other operating system - (or OS plus a choice of layer UI bits

>>> and pieces) - it is Windows Vista. It is no good stamping your feet

>>> and saying it does not do this if it was never designed to do that or

>>> saying it should do this because the totally different product can do

>>> it.

>>> This thread was about a person claim that Windows is "defective" - so

>>> far neither you or anyone else has yet to actually make a valid case

>>> for this.

>>>

>>

>> Right, it isn't defective but not up to par and is not on the bleeding

>> edge of computing by any stretch of the imagination. It's just MS

>> pushing out an obsolete OS to make money.

>>

>

> How would you even know. You don't have Vista.

I bought Vista months ago and posted about it. Please try to keep up.

> So stop the lies.

> Frank

You're the liar.

--

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October 3, 200717 yr

Mike Brannigan wrote:

>

> "The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'"

> <none@none.not> wrote in message news:fe0d8c$irm$1@aioe.org...

>> Dwarf wrote:

>>> Not once in this entire thread have I seen ANY concrete evidence

>>> being provided about 'defects' in Vista. Those 'defects' that have

>>> been mentioned are features in the OS, most of which can be disabled

>>> if you do not wish to use them. Of course, you are entitled to your

>>> views and opinions, but remember that nobody is forcing you to use

>>> Vista, or indeed any Microsoft product.

>>

>> One of those 'features' of vista is the stealth updates. Where is it

>> documented how to turn that off?

>>

>

> Just so we can kill this one now - what do you mean by "stealth updates"

> If you are referring to the updates that any machine that is using

> Windows Update receive to the update engine - that is it is in ANY

> setting other then the one on the dialog which is labeled "Never Check

> for Updates" - this is hardly a stealth update since you have you

> machine configured to contact WU and therefore it is only sensible for

> any WU updates to the client side engine be pushed to the machine -

> otherwise how do you think it would work ?? It would not, you could be

> in a position not getting notified of available updates due to the WU

> engine on your machine not working correctly.

>

> So with that aside - what "stealth updates"?

>

Where have you been, under a rock?

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9039681&intsrc=hm_list

This *stealth* update has been all over the tech web sites and Google

News. It was done even if you had auto updates TURNED OFF. It also makes

it very difficult to do a repair install with XP.

This, indeed, is a defect and a blaring one.

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October 3, 200717 yr

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 08:57:15 -0700, Frank <fb@osspan.clm> wrote:

>Tibery-OS wrote:

>> look, its not my fault that you cannot see that the world is round and not

>> flat..

>>

>> what do you want me to say... its alright to say the world is flat and just

>> hush up about the world being round?

>>

>> No Sir, that will not happen.

>>

>> I am correct and you will see that I am correct... with time.. or you will

>> insist vista is great until you are the only one left who believes so!

>>

>> "Universe_JDJ" <universejdj@gmail.com> wrote in message

>> news:1191408748.149793.158850@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...

>You're just a fukkin idiot and we all know it.

Duh Frank... what the hell do you think people think you are?

Moron Alert: Frank doesn't know he's seen as just another newsgroup

idiot. Priceless!

ROTFLMAO!

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October 3, 200717 yr

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 09:02:52 -0700, Frank <fb@osspan.clm> wrote:

>Tibery-OS wrote:

>

>> Why clarify man? He says vista sucks and that's all you have to know

>

>hehehe...yeah go tell that to a lawyer and he'll say, "and so does my

>girlfriend/wife/hooker"!

>

>You are without a doubt the most ridiculous and stupid of all the Vista

>haters who stop here to take a crap.

No, Frank you are by FAR the most stupid and idiotic poster here. You

would think some old fool like you by now would have learned how to

behave in public.

>Get a real life you idiot. Your opinion is yours alone.

Yet morons like Frank always pretend their wacky options represent how

everyone thinks. Stop it Frank! You're killing me. My ribs hurt from

laughing so much at the sh*t you keep saying.

Somebody explain to Frank, that assh*les like them NEVER know what

assh*les they are.