"Tibery-OS" <Tib@OS.com> wrote in message

news:4703817d$2@newsgate.x-privat.org...

> your logic is not correct... breaking or defective problems can be fixed

> with service packs...

>

 

I never said this. So maybe you should look a little more closely at this

thread and the discussion being had.

We have people shouting about defects in the OS and yet none of you has

actually laid out in detail real defects.

> GET THIS BECAUSE I WILL NOT REPEAT IT:

>

> Vista cannot be fixed by a service pack

 

I never said IT could - you appear to start form the premise that Vista as

whole product is broken - something this thread has yet to actually show in

detail. The use of service packs are indeed there to fix code breaks and

enhance functionality (as is the case with Vista SP1).

> because its problems stem from a deeper level of conception and design

> that will not be fixed because service packs are only to correct problems

> NOT redesign an OS.

>

I never said that an SP was there to fix a densign issue - however as I

appear to have to repeat to you all - you have not show any defect yet in

your protestations or rants.

> Now if you cannot understand what the heck im talking about, well you are

> a total idiot!

>

 

Ah, name calling how like the petulant child.

So far this thread has only served to display the usual Linux/Ubuntu bias

and general unsubstantiated rants.

By all means post your theories on your deeply held notions of the filing in

the design of Windows Vista - we would love to hear them - but confine these

to the real technical issues and not some I want it to do his rant as one

other poster has done.

 

But as yet - not one poster on this thread has yet shown any real "defect"

in Vista that would support the class action suit proposed by the original

poster.

 

--

 

Mike Brannigan

"Tibery-OS" <Tib@OS.com> wrote in message

news:4703817d$2@newsgate.x-privat.org...

> your logic is not correct... breaking or defective problems can be fixed

> with service packs...

>

> GET THIS BECAUSE I WILL NOT REPEAT IT:

>

> Vista cannot be fixed by a service pack because its problems stem from a

> deeper level of conception and design that will not be fixed because

> service packs are only to correct problems NOT redesign an OS.

>

> Now if you cannot understand what the heck im talking about, well you are

> a total idiot!

>

>

>

> "Mike Brannigan" <Mike.Brannigan@localhost> wrote in message

> news:A7B6A1E5-BFDC-40A2-8D77-EDD87FBAAF30@microsoft.com...

>> "Alias" <iamalias@shoesgmail.com> wrote in message

>> news:fdvsrk$m1$1@aioe.org...

>>>

>>> Off the top of my head, here are some of the defects:

>>>

>>> WPA

>>> WGA

>>> WGA/N

>>> UAC

>>> Indexing

>>> "Search"

>>

>> All the above are product features not defects - unless you can state

>> some specific areas where that feature breaks or is defective (your

>> personal opinion as to the use of WGA or WPA should exist are not

>> relevent) then these are not valid.

>>

>>> No Compiz-Fusion

>>

>> Sorry no idea what that means

>>

>>> Clunky, fixed Windows

>>

>> Look and feel of the OS is not a defect but a design decision and does

>> not impact functionality of the product.

>>

>>> IE7

>>> WMP 11

>>> DRM

>>

>> Again just features or technologies - you have not stated what the defect

>> is.

>>

>>> Price is waaaaaaaaaaaay too high in Europe, i.e., over 800 US Dollars

>>> for Ultimate Retail.

>>

>> Windows Ultimate Retail is about £234.04 (UK) which is appox$450 USD.

>> I see no problem with that as retail US is $319.99 (USD)

>> [source UK - http://www.ebuyer.com , US - http://www.newegg.com]

>> Of course price comparison is tricky at the moment with USD being so week

>> against other currencies e.g. $1 USD is now £0.45 UK

>>

>>> No 3D Cube

>>> Only one desktop

>>

>> Neither of these are defects - they are just UI features that are not in

>> the product. This is no more a defect then one car having a sun roof and

>> the other having air conditioning.

>>

>>> The need for a high end computer to run it.

>>>

>>

>> Again not a defect - Windows Vista Basic has an extremely low minimum

>> specification. And an increase in required spec is not a defect for a

>> new product with greater features and functionality over the previous

>> version. You might as well say Windows XP is defective when you compare

>> the min requirements to those of Windows 3.1.

>>

>>> That said, a class action suit is stupid. If one doesn't want or like

>>> Vista, there are plenty of better alternatives including XP.

>>>

>>

>> Indeed.

>>

>>> --

>>> Alias

>>> To email me, remove shoes

>>

>> --

>>

>> Mike Brannigan

>>

>> "Alias" <iamalias@shoesgmail.com> wrote in message

>> news:fdvsrk$m1$1@aioe.org...

>>> Mike Brannigan wrote:

>>>> "Tibery-OS" <Tib@OS.com> wrote in message

>>>> news:470370b6$1@newsgate.x-privat.org...

>>>>> Why clarify man? He says vista sucks and that's all you have to know

>>>>>

>>>>> What would it help if he told you one feature sucks or the other?

>>>>>

>>>>> Overall it sucks and its not fixable because the stupidness of vista

>>>>> is too well integrated with that darn OS.

>>>>>

>>>>> If MS was willing to haul in vista and rewrite it from scratch THEN we

>>>>> might be giving you detailed answers. But SP are not rewrites... the

>>>>> mainly fix some issues,

>>>>> and add some stuff (not even that will happen in sp1 they wont be

>>>>> adding anything). MS is stuck with a monster they created and simply

>>>>> cannot go back now!

>>>>>

>>>>> The problem with vista starts with its very idea about what an OS

>>>>> should be... this lack of understanding is surprising.... MS had the

>>>>> experience but Vista shows

>>>>> that the people working on it, either were newbies fresh out of

>>>>> collages, or the people guiding the teams were new to this and have no

>>>>> idea what people want.

>>>>>

>>>>> Vista is doomed.... forget about it. Its already good as dead...

>>>>>

>>>>> so look ahead into a better and brighter future..

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>> He is asking for a class action suit and cannot (as yet) actually

>>>> justify his claims of defects.

>>>> Unless he can come back with a detailed list of so called defects he

>>>> does not have a case.

>>>> You are not helping either as again you are just using the the "vista

>>>> sucks and that's all you have to know" acquisition against the

>>>> product. Again meaningless ,so yes we would all like to see that list

>>>> of defects provide in detail and not just some this doesn't work like

>>>> it did in XP or it's "stupid" childish approaches.

>>>>

>>>> Microsoft do not have to withdrawn anything to get you to provide

>>>> "detailed answers" if you don't provide it now how do you expect anyone

>>>> (including Microsoft) to actually understand what your problems are

>>>> then triage them for fixing etc.

>>>> Again it is no good stamping your feet like a petulant child and saying

>>>> "they have to rewrite it" and yet not provide the detail anyone would

>>>> expect for such as demand or a class action suit.

>>>>

>>>> Please by all means when you provide the detail of defects - also

>>>> include your better then Microsoft's understanding of "the very idea

>>>> about what an OS should be"

>>>> So lets have the detail of defects and then your view of an OS.

>>>> It really is as simple as if you cannot provide the list of defects

>>>> then you might as well refrain from any further postulating with "vista

>>>> is doomed .. dead" etc.

>>>

>>> Off the top of my head, here are some of the defects:

>>>

>>> WPA

>>> WGA

>>> WGA/N

>>> UAC

>>> Indexing

>>> "Search"

>>> No Compiz-Fusion

>>> Clunky, fixed Windows

>>> IE7

>>> WMP 11

>>> DRM

>>> Price is waaaaaaaaaaaay too high in Europe, i.e., over 800 US Dollars

>>> for Ultimate Retail.

>>> No 3D Cube

>>> Only one desktop

>>> The need for a high end computer to run it.

>>>

>>> That said, a class action suit is stupid. If one doesn't want or like

>>> Vista, there are plenty of better alternatives including XP.

>>>

>>> --

>>> Alias

>>> To email me, remove shoes

>>

>

>

"Tibery-OS" <Tib@OS.com> wrote in message

news:4703817d@newsgate.x-privat.org...

> Over one and a half years in this darn newsgroup since it existed I have

> explained almost EVERY detail why vista sucks... (there are more but GESH

> its just too much!)

>

> I have repeated most of the main things again and again...

>

> You want to know why vista sucks? Do some research in google groups

> you will find all the info you need there.

>

> Stop whinning.. vista sucks whether you like it or not

>

 

Your "Vista sucks" is an emotive and unqualified statement. This discussion

is about the so called as yet not detailed "defects" the original poster

claimed.

I have read a number of your post and few if any are related to anything hat

could be identified as a real defect - as I posted to Alias you desires for

this or that function or UI feature or admission of that technology (WPA

etc) are not defects.

 

I have am certainly not "whinning"[sic] but I can hear your feet stamping

and you huffing and ranting as clearly as the child next door.

 

--

 

Mike Brannigan

"Tibery-OS" <Tib@OS.com> wrote in message

news:4703817d@newsgate.x-privat.org...

> Over one and a half years in this darn newsgroup since it existed I have

> explained almost EVERY detail why vista sucks... (there are more but GESH

> its just too much!)

>

> I have repeated most of the main things again and again...

>

> You want to know why vista sucks? Do some research in google groups

> you will find all the info you need there.

>

> Stop whinning.. vista sucks whether you like it or not

>

>

> "Mike Brannigan" <Mike.Brannigan@localhost> wrote in message

> news:ujllMtaBIHA.4712@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>> "Tibery-OS" <Tib@OS.com> wrote in message

>> news:470370b6$1@newsgate.x-privat.org...

>>> Why clarify man? He says vista sucks and that's all you have to know

>>>

>>> What would it help if he told you one feature sucks or the other?

>>>

>>> Overall it sucks and its not fixable because the stupidness of vista

>>> is too well integrated with that darn OS.

>>>

>>> If MS was willing to haul in vista and rewrite it from scratch THEN we

>>> might be giving you detailed answers. But SP are not rewrites... the

>>> mainly fix some issues,

>>> and add some stuff (not even that will happen in sp1 they wont be adding

>>> anything). MS is stuck with a monster they created and simply cannot go

>>> back now!

>>>

>>> The problem with vista starts with its very idea about what an OS should

>>> be... this lack of understanding is surprising.... MS had the experience

>>> but Vista shows

>>> that the people working on it, either were newbies fresh out of

>>> collages, or the people guiding the teams were new to this and have no

>>> idea what people want.

>>>

>>> Vista is doomed.... forget about it. Its already good as dead...

>>>

>>> so look ahead into a better and brighter future..

>>>

>>

>> He is asking for a class action suit and cannot (as yet) actually

>> justify his claims of defects.

>> Unless he can come back with a detailed list of so called defects he does

>> not have a case.

>> You are not helping either as again you are just using the the "vista

>> sucks and that's all you have to know" acquisition against the product.

>> Again meaningless ,so yes we would all like to see that list of defects

>> provide in detail and not just some this doesn't work like it did in XP

>> or it's "stupid" childish approaches.

>>

>> Microsoft do not have to withdrawn anything to get you to provide

>> "detailed answers" if you don't provide it now how do you expect anyone

>> (including Microsoft) to actually understand what your problems are then

>> triage them for fixing etc.

>> Again it is no good stamping your feet like a petulant child and saying

>> "they have to rewrite it" and yet not provide the detail anyone would

>> expect for such as demand or a class action suit.

>>

>> Please by all means when you provide the detail of defects - also include

>> your better then Microsoft's understanding of "the very idea about what

>> an OS should be"

>> So lets have the detail of defects and then your view of an OS.

>> It really is as simple as if you cannot provide the list of defects then

>> you might as well refrain from any further postulating with "vista is

>> doomed .. dead" etc.

>> --

>>

>> Mike Brannigan

>>

>> "Tibery-OS" <Tib@OS.com> wrote in message

>> news:470370b6$1@newsgate.x-privat.org...

>>> Why clarify man? He says vista sucks and that's all you have to know

>>>

>>> What would it help if he told you one feature sucks or the other?

>>>

>>> Overall it sucks and its not fixable because the stupidness of vista

>>> is too well integrated with that darn OS.

>>>

>>> If MS was willing to haul in vista and rewrite it from scratch THEN we

>>> might be giving you detailed answers. But SP are not rewrites... the

>>> mainly fix some issues,

>>> and add some stuff (not even that will happen in sp1 they wont be adding

>>> anything). MS is stuck with a monster they created and simply cannot go

>>> back now!

>>>

>>> The problem with vista starts with its very idea about what an OS should

>>> be... this lack of understanding is surprising.... MS had the experience

>>> but Vista shows

>>> that the people working on it, either were newbies fresh out of

>>> collages, or the people guiding the teams were new to this and have no

>>> idea what people want.

>>>

>>> Vista is doomed.... forget about it. Its already good as dead...

>>>

>>> so look ahead into a better and brighter future..

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> "Mike Brannigan" <Mike.Brannigan@localhost> wrote in message

>>> news:7294EDC8-AA1F-4232-A9A5-F9362C15F6C2@microsoft.com...

>>>> "wheelman" <wheelman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>>>> news:D5A14001-8126-4912-B176-1C846B622A05@microsoft.com...

>>>>> see what im saying.some one all ways comes on and messes with us,when

>>>>> we are

>>>>> talking about how defective vista is and all the problems every one is

>>>>> haveing.

>>>>>

>>>>> they want to take up for microsoft who is screwing us to no end.we

>>>>> know he

>>>>> sees the post here and how all are negitive.so is microsoft paying

>>>>> these guys

>>>>> to jump in our post and mess with us,i wouldnt put it past them..i

>>>>> have been

>>>>> trying for four months to strighten out this os..you get one thing to

>>>>> work

>>>>> and it does something else so something want work.im

>>>>>

>>>>> done with complaining.we need a class action law suit..it would be so

>>>>> great

>>>>> to give it back to the people,thats doing it to us..and to the people

>>>>> that

>>>>> want to come into our post..and mess with us,take a hike,you are not

>>>>> wanted...

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>> So you are still avoiding the issue - if you want a class action suit

>>>> then you need to clearly state what you think is defective (in detail)

>>>> about Windows Vista.

>>>> So fare you have said nothing , so one one is going to take you

>>>> seriously.

>>>> I doubt any lawyer is going to take you up on this is you are not

>>>> capable of even beginning to clearly state the nature of the defects

>>>> you wish to site in the suit.

>>>> So come on provide the details now if you really think you have a case.

>>>>

>>>> And as regards

>>>>>and to the people that

>>>>> want to come into our post..and mess with us,take a hike,you are not

>>>>> wanted...

>>>> You know that is the point of posting a discussion? - to have one !.

>>>> So me asking you to provide detail is not "messing with your post" -

>>>> but asking you to clarify the nature of your issues. If you can't do

>>>> that then you have no case.

>>>> --

>>>> Mike Brannigan

>>>>

>>>> "wheelman" <wheelman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>>>> news:D5A14001-8126-4912-B176-1C846B622A05@microsoft.com...

>>>>> see what im saying.some one all ways comes on and messes with us,when

>>>>> we are

>>>>> talking about how defective vista is and all the problems every one is

>>>>> haveing.

>>>>>

>>>>> they want to take up for microsoft who is screwing us to no end.we

>>>>> know he

>>>>> sees the post here and how all are negitive.so is microsoft paying

>>>>> these guys

>>>>> to jump in our post and mess with us,i wouldnt put it past them..i

>>>>> have been

>>>>> trying for four months to strighten out this os..you get one thing to

>>>>> work

>>>>> and it does something else so something want work.im

>>>>>

>>>>> done with complaining.we need a class action law suit..it would be so

>>>>> great

>>>>> to give it back to the people,thats doing it to us..and to the people

>>>>> that

>>>>> want to come into our post..and mess with us,take a hike,you are not

>>>>> wanted...

>>>>>

>>>>> "Mike Brannigan" wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>>> "wheelman" <wheelman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>>>>>> news:D17EF881-3302-471E-BECA-09BDEE8B5BD9@microsoft.com...

>>>>>> > looks like there would be some lawyer some where,that would start a

>>>>>> > class

>>>>>> > action lawsuit for us.maybe thats what microsoft needs..they sure

>>>>>> > do not

>>>>>> > care

>>>>>> > about us or putting out a defective product..bill gates likes to

>>>>>> > give away

>>>>>> > money to charities,that he stole from us,maybe we could take back

>>>>>> > some of

>>>>>> > the

>>>>>> > billions,he and his company cheated us out of..i know after months

>>>>>> > of this

>>>>>> > defective,vista os,i would sign up..if they are not stoped ,they

>>>>>> > are just

>>>>>> > going to continue to make and sell more defective,,products..lets

>>>>>> > get this

>>>>>> > lawsuit started...

>>>>>>

>>>>>> You have not yet managed to make any actual definitive statement in

>>>>>> any of

>>>>>> your recent posts that clearly state why you believe Windows Vista is

>>>>>> "defective".

>>>>>> It is not use just shout you don't like it or it does not work with

>>>>>> your old

>>>>>> application or hardware due to app compat or driver issues.

>>>>>> Frankly there are millions of users of Vista world world that are not

>>>>>> seeing

>>>>>> a defective product and certainly thousands of users that I have

>>>>>> deployed

>>>>>> Vista too that are fully functional without issue or concern.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> So why not post your actual definite, clearly articulated and

>>>>>> detailed point

>>>>>> by point analysis of why you believe Vista is "defective" - remember

>>>>>> if you

>>>>>> really want a class action suit will need to be able to do this so

>>>>>> that each

>>>>>> point can be investigated in detail to see if it really is a defect.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> So please do post back with your complete detailed list of points.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> --

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Mike Brannigan

>>>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>>

>>

>

>

Inline

 

Tibery-OS" <Tib@OS.com> wrote in message

news:4703857a@newsgate.x-privat.org...

> Your replies are INLINE

>

>

> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.com> wrote in message

> news:%23KLaSNbBIHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>A base jumper would disagree with you on your first point..

>>

>> 'Vista sucks' is not enough on its own to use as a basis for research..

>>

>> WPA..

>> many companies have adopted activation..

>

> Yeah because MS was the first to start this, a truley stupid and

> innafective way to protect your programs

>

 

But one that is now adopted and used by many and is not a product defect.

>>

>> WGA..

>> It doesn't affect the majority of users

>>

>

>

>

>> WGA/N..

>> EU should keep their noses out

>

> Newsflash: the US is a moniroty compared to the whole rest of the world.

>

 

And in Europe you can buy either the full or N release - again not a defect

and not an problem.

>> UAC..

>> it can be turned OFF

>

> The simple user does not understand why a frikin pop up comes in his/her

> fast a trillion times a day.

> THey should not be forced to fiddle with settings, and they most probably

> leave it on and torcher then forever

>

 

Lack of user education or the inability for a user to look in the online

help does not qualify as a defect.

For regular users UAC does not normally pop up at all - it is related to

performing tasks that are potentially risky in some way whatever you believe

about reflex conditioned response to just press yes - at least we are

getting something to show that potentially risky operation in taking place.

Maybe you run all day as an admin and want any code you click on to run

without any prompt but your lack of security and good practices should not

hinder the rest of the world who do need protecting (yes from themselves)

>>

>> Indexing..

>> it can be turned OFF

>> "Search"..

>> it works better than ever it did before

>

> The simple user does not understand why a frikin servuce is thrasing their

> disk making the PC slower all the time, giving them erroneous results in

> searches.

 

Searching and index use low priority processes and while a disk may be

active this does not impact the regular users ability to work as when IO is

required those processes back off.

Certainly I agree with the original poster that search is significantly

better then previous versions.

> THey should not be forced to fiddle with settings, and they most probably

> leave it on and torcher then forever.

> Indexing and search are the 2 most STUPID THINGS in vista, the way that

> they are implimented are HORRID.

>

 

"stupid", "horrible" - not exactly technical terms - again you are sounding

more like a child then a professional person engaging in a measured

discussion. Also the use of this language is again personalizing your view

of the technology and is hardly objective.

>>

>> No Compiz-Fusion.. oh mercy

>>

>> Clunky, fixed Windows.. ?

>

>>

>> IE7..

>> definitely better than IE6

>

> The Ie7 interface stinks BIG time... you cant put the toolbars and buttons

> where you want it, and the menu is hidden for crying out loud...

> if you had ANY experience with actual users, you would know how horrid IE7

> is. I mean I have been monitoring the IE7 newsgroup

> and I KNOW how much people HATE IT HATE IT HATE IT!!!!!

>

 

"Hate" "horrid" etc all again just personal opinions about the UI - not

defects.

> I like tabs.. but the way they are implimented in ie7 is sick.. gesh they

> cant get anything right!

>

 

again personal opinion - none objective and not a defect.

>>

>> WMP 11.. other choices are out there, and all can be set as default

>>

>

> Thank you... WMP11 stinks big time and I forget it.... but you cant remove

> it cant you?

 

You buy the N version for Vista without Media Player.

>

>> DRM..

>> an entertainment industry product

>

>

>

>> Price is waaaaaaaaaaaay too high in Europe, i.e., over 800 US Dollars for

>> Ultimate Retail.

>> But what is it in local currency relative to what people earn?

>

> Europe has verious levels of income depending on country. In some coutries

> vista is way to expensive.. you dont understand because you are darn

> ignorant about the rest of the world arent you???

>

>> No 3D Cube

>> Nobody needs this

>

> Nobody needs multiple desktops with a nice easy interface? I can tell you

> from personal experience the CUBE and the multiple desktop BOOSTS

> productivity in tremendus way..

> but I guess an MS fanboy like you has not tried it yet.. have you?

>

 

Unfortunatly one Ubuntu fan boys view of what makes him more productive is

just a load of eye candy to another. If you have some research papers on UI

design for increased productivity through the use of multiple desktops and

cubic UI then please post the links. Remember this is for regular day to

day users not IT geeks etc. If a user cannot find the help for UAC as

discussed above just what are they going to do to find their desktops which

have ne app on when they are on another or do they press some key to get a

cube (only six side so haw many desktop do I want or need etc ).

>

>> Only one desktop

>> And your point is?

>

> Read above

>

 

ditto

>

>> The need for a high end computer to run it.

>

>> Any computer supplied with Vista pre-installed will cost no more than a

>> computer installed with XP. The only people affected will be those

>> upgrading from XP on older machines. Nobody is forced to upgrade. That is

>> a personal choice, just like this list of yours is all personal dislikes

>> which are as applicable to XP or Windows 2000 for the most part.

>>

>

> Vista is 20-50% slower than XP on all hardware.. you clearly have no clue

> and you are wasting our time here...!!!

>

 

That has not bee substantiated and is a huge generalization.

> GO AWAY!

>

 

The same could be requested of you - but as this is a public discussion,

then I'm sure you will support that all voices should be heard - or would

you like to stamp your feet some more and try and shout down anyone in the

group that does not agree with you ?

>

>

>>

>>

>> "Alias" <iamalias@shoesgmail.com> wrote in message

>> news:fdvt84$1f1$1@aioe.org...

>>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>>>> He isn't using Vista, probably never has..

>>>>

>>>

>>> One doesn't have to jump off a 50 story building to know that it isn't a

>>> good idea. Are you suggesting that one should just blindly buy something

>>> without researching it first?

>>>

>>> --

>>> Alias

>>> To email me, remove shoes

>>

>

>

 

--

 

Mike Brannigan

"

Mike Brannigan wrote:

> "Alias" <iamalias@shoesgmail.com> wrote in message

> news:fdvv3p$7jf$1@aioe.org...

>> Mike Brannigan wrote:

>>> "Alias" <iamalias@shoesgmail.com> wrote in message

>>> news:fdvsrk$m1$1@aioe.org...

>>>>

>>>> Off the top of my head, here are some of the defects:

>>>>

>>>> WPA

>>>> WGA

>>>> WGA/N

>>>> UAC

>>>> Indexing

>>>> "Search"

>>>

>>> All the above are product features not defects - unless you can state

>>> some specific areas where that feature breaks or is defective (your

>>> personal opinion as to the use of WGA or WPA should exist are not

>>> relevent) then these are not valid.

>>

>> I consider these additions to be unnecessary and cause grief to the

>> end user. That, I would say, is a defect.

>>

>

> No - not a defect - you person opinion as to if you like a feature or

> function is not valid as defect. A defect is a feature or function that

> does not perform as designed etc.

 

OK, not your definition of a defect but unnecessary and causes grief to

the end user, which, to me, is a defect.

>

>>>

>>>> No Compiz-Fusion

>>>

>>> Sorry no idea what that means

>>

>> http://www.google.com

>>

>

> So again more UI nonsense and thus a feature request and not a defect.

 

Not up to par better?

>

>>>

>>>> Clunky, fixed Windows

>>>

>>> Look and feel of the OS is not a defect but a design decision and

>>> does not impact functionality of the product.

>>

>> It ain't groovy and I like my computer to be groovy.

>>

>

> But again NOT a defect. Just you want a fancier UI then aero. This is

> just a product request and thus no basis for a class action suit or

> general bitches about the product being defective.

 

I said a class action suit is stupid, remember? Let's use "not up to

par" instead of defect, OK?

>

>>>

>>>> IE7

>>>> WMP 11

>>>> DRM

>>>

>>> Again just features or technologies - you have not stated what the

>>> defect is.

>>

>> DRM and IE7 is so virus prone, clunky and ugly.

>>

>

> Clucky/Ugly are not defects - that is user perception UI likes or dislikes.

 

A users likes and dislikes have a lot to do with whether a user will

purchase something or not. I would say that it is not up to par.

> Attack surface opportunities are not actually defects in most cases -

> but you could make some claim that they are holes/bugs in the OS that

> allow malicious code execution. These defects are however addressed in

> fixes so probably not a great case.

 

LOL! Windows boxes, in the hundreds of thousands, are part of herd bots

and you're saying that Windows is secure? That's rich.

>

>>>

>>>> Price is waaaaaaaaaaaay too high in Europe, i.e., over 800 US

>>>> Dollars for Ultimate Retail.

>>>

>>> Windows Ultimate Retail is about £234.04 (UK) which is appox$450 USD.

>>> I see no problem with that as retail US is $319.99 (USD)

>>> [source UK - http://www.ebuyer.com , US - http://www.newegg.com]

>>> Of course price comparison is tricky at the moment with USD being so

>>> week against other currencies e.g. $1 USD is now £0.45 UK

>>

>> In Spain, it costs over 800 US dollars for Windows Ultimate Retail.

>> This is a rip off.

>>

>

> UK - £312 - $620

> Spain - £395 (http://www.elcorteingles.es) $790

> US - $320

 

El Corte Inglés:

 

http://www.elcorteingles.es/informatica/producto/producto_lst.asp?tlst=00000007&tsel=2&tmar=000000001&orden=&letra=&pagina=2

 

Windows Vista Ultimate

Marca: Microsoft

 

Windows Vista Ultimate es la mejor edición de Windows Vista, con la

potencia, seguridad y movilidad necesaria para el trabajo, y las

posibilidades de... (Leer más)

 

 

Precio Habitual:

 

 

599 euros

Desc. (5%):

 

29,95

Precio oferta:

 

569,05 euros

 

94.682 PTA

 

845,61 USD

> Well there are always interesting issues with price - but it is still

> not a product defect.

> You can always shop online and internationally.

 

No US online company that I know of will ship to Spain and let you pay

the dollar price. They've jumped on the charge them more if they use

euros or pounds bandwagon.

>>>

>>>> No 3D Cube

>>>> Only one desktop

>>>

>>> Neither of these are defects - they are just UI features that are not

>>> in the product. This is no more a defect then one car having a sun

>>> roof and the other having air conditioning.

>>

>> Not having more than one desktop is a defect. No 3D cube isn't groovy.

>>

>

> NO again -you cannot claim a defect for a design decision and

> functionality - such as multiple desktop tops and other UI features that

> other operating systems or UI layers on top of other platforms may have.

> Is your Pickup truck defective because it does not have a Ferrari 530

> body ?

 

OK, not up to par, then. Defect is a bad word to use.

>

>>>

>>>> The need for a high end computer to run it.

>>>>

>>>

>>> Again not a defect - Windows Vista Basic has an extremely low minimum

>>> specification. And an increase in required spec is not a defect for

>>> a new product with greater features and functionality over the

>>> previous version. You might as well say Windows XP is defective when

>>> you compare the min requirements to those of Windows 3.1.

>>

>> The latest Ubuntu need not be run on a high end computer. If Open

>> Source can do it, why can't MS?

>>

>

> SO WHAT !!! - this is not Ubuntu or MacOS etc this is Windows - the

> minimum spec is specific to this product so again you cannot call

> "defect" as you cannot compare it to another OS in those terms. (My

> truck runs on diesel, but my Ferrari uses high octane petrol - neither

> is in defect they are both motor vehicles but obviously not the same)

 

OK, not up to par then.

>

>

>>>

>>>> That said, a class action suit is stupid. If one doesn't want or

>>>> like Vista, there are plenty of better alternatives including XP.

>>>>

>>>

>>> Indeed.

>>>

>>>> --

>>>> Alias

>>>> To email me, remove shoes

>>>

>>

>>

>> --

>> Alias

>> To email me, remove shoes

>

>

> You are just not getting this - Windows Vista is not Ubuntu or MacOS or

> any other operating system - (or OS plus a choice of layer UI bits and

> pieces) - it is Windows Vista. It is no good stamping your feet and

> saying it does not do this if it was never designed to do that or saying

> it should do this because the totally different product can do it.

> This thread was about a person claim that Windows is "defective" - so

> far neither you or anyone else has yet to actually make a valid case for

> this.

>

 

Right, it isn't defective but not up to par and is not on the bleeding

edge of computing by any stretch of the imagination. It's just MS

pushing out an obsolete OS to make money.

 

--

Alias

To email me, remove shoes

You will have to *prove* you are correct to the millions of people who have

no problems with Vista on their computer.

 

--

 

 

Regards,

 

Richard Urban

Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User

(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

 

 

"Tibery-OS" <Tib@OS.com> wrote in message

news:470380d4@newsgate.x-privat.org...

> look, its not my fault that you cannot see that the world is round and not

> flat..

>

> what do you want me to say... its alright to say the world is flat and

> just hush up about the world being round?

>

> No Sir, that will not happen.

>

> I am correct and you will see that I am correct... with time.. or you will

> insist vista is great until you are the only one left who believes so!

"Sucks" is not actionable in a class action lawsuit. Actual provable defects

(in each and every installation) ARE. Till then - you have *nothing*.

 

--

 

 

Regards,

 

Richard Urban

Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User

(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

 

 

"Tibery-OS" <Tib@OS.com> wrote in message

news:470370b6$1@newsgate.x-privat.org...

> Why clarify man? He says vista sucks and that's all you have to know

>

> What would it help if he told you one feature sucks or the other?

>

> Overall it sucks and its not fixable because the stupidness of vista

> is too well integrated with that darn OS.

>

> If MS was willing to haul in vista and rewrite it from scratch THEN we

> might be giving you detailed answers. But SP are not rewrites... the

> mainly fix some issues,

> and add some stuff (not even that will happen in sp1 they wont be adding

> anything). MS is stuck with a monster they created and simply cannot go

> back now!

>

> The problem with vista starts with its very idea about what an OS should

> be... this lack of understanding is surprising.... MS had the experience

> but Vista shows

> that the people working on it, either were newbies fresh out of collages,

> or the people guiding the teams were new to this and have no idea what

> people want.

>

> Vista is doomed.... forget about it. Its already good as dead...

>

> so look ahead into a better and brighter future..

>

>

>

> "Mike Brannigan" <Mike.Brannigan@localhost> wrote in message

> news:7294EDC8-AA1F-4232-A9A5-F9362C15F6C2@microsoft.com...

>> "wheelman" <wheelman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>> news:D5A14001-8126-4912-B176-1C846B622A05@microsoft.com...

>>> see what im saying.some one all ways comes on and messes with us,when we

>>> are

>>> talking about how defective vista is and all the problems every one is

>>> haveing.

>>>

>>> they want to take up for microsoft who is screwing us to no end.we know

>>> he

>>> sees the post here and how all are negitive.so is microsoft paying these

>>> guys

>>> to jump in our post and mess with us,i wouldnt put it past them..i have

>>> been

>>> trying for four months to strighten out this os..you get one thing to

>>> work

>>> and it does something else so something want work.im

>>>

>>> done with complaining.we need a class action law suit..it would be so

>>> great

>>> to give it back to the people,thats doing it to us..and to the people

>>> that

>>> want to come into our post..and mess with us,take a hike,you are not

>>> wanted...

>>>

>>

>> So you are still avoiding the issue - if you want a class action suit

>> then you need to clearly state what you think is defective (in detail)

>> about Windows Vista.

>> So fare you have said nothing , so one one is going to take you

>> seriously.

>> I doubt any lawyer is going to take you up on this is you are not capable

>> of even beginning to clearly state the nature of the defects you wish to

>> site in the suit.

>> So come on provide the details now if you really think you have a case.

>>

>> And as regards

>>>and to the people that

>>> want to come into our post..and mess with us,take a hike,you are not

>>> wanted...

>> You know that is the point of posting a discussion? - to have one !. So

>> me asking you to provide detail is not "messing with your post" - but

>> asking you to clarify the nature of your issues. If you can't do that

>> then you have no case.

>> --

>> Mike Brannigan

>>

>> "wheelman" <wheelman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>> news:D5A14001-8126-4912-B176-1C846B622A05@microsoft.com...

>>> see what im saying.some one all ways comes on and messes with us,when we

>>> are

>>> talking about how defective vista is and all the problems every one is

>>> haveing.

>>>

>>> they want to take up for microsoft who is screwing us to no end.we know

>>> he

>>> sees the post here and how all are negitive.so is microsoft paying these

>>> guys

>>> to jump in our post and mess with us,i wouldnt put it past them..i have

>>> been

>>> trying for four months to strighten out this os..you get one thing to

>>> work

>>> and it does something else so something want work.im

>>>

>>> done with complaining.we need a class action law suit..it would be so

>>> great

>>> to give it back to the people,thats doing it to us..and to the people

>>> that

>>> want to come into our post..and mess with us,take a hike,you are not

>>> wanted...

>>>

>>> "Mike Brannigan" wrote:

>>>

>>>> "wheelman" <wheelman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>>>> news:D17EF881-3302-471E-BECA-09BDEE8B5BD9@microsoft.com...

>>>> > looks like there would be some lawyer some where,that would start a

>>>> > class

>>>> > action lawsuit for us.maybe thats what microsoft needs..they sure do

>>>> > not

>>>> > care

>>>> > about us or putting out a defective product..bill gates likes to give

>>>> > away

>>>> > money to charities,that he stole from us,maybe we could take back

>>>> > some of

>>>> > the

>>>> > billions,he and his company cheated us out of..i know after months of

>>>> > this

>>>> > defective,vista os,i would sign up..if they are not stoped ,they are

>>>> > just

>>>> > going to continue to make and sell more defective,,products..lets get

>>>> > this

>>>> > lawsuit started...

>>>>

>>>> You have not yet managed to make any actual definitive statement in any

>>>> of

>>>> your recent posts that clearly state why you believe Windows Vista is

>>>> "defective".

>>>> It is not use just shout you don't like it or it does not work with

>>>> your old

>>>> application or hardware due to app compat or driver issues.

>>>> Frankly there are millions of users of Vista world world that are not

>>>> seeing

>>>> a defective product and certainly thousands of users that I have

>>>> deployed

>>>> Vista too that are fully functional without issue or concern.

>>>>

>>>> So why not post your actual definite, clearly articulated and detailed

>>>> point

>>>> by point analysis of why you believe Vista is "defective" - remember if

>>>> you

>>>> really want a class action suit will need to be able to do this so that

>>>> each

>>>> point can be investigated in detail to see if it really is a defect.

>>>>

>>>> So please do post back with your complete detailed list of points.

>>>>

>>>> --

>>>>

>>>> Mike Brannigan

>>>>

>>

>

>

Mike Brannigan wrote:

> Inline

>

> Tibery-OS" <Tib@OS.com> wrote in message

> news:4703857a@newsgate.x-privat.org...

>> Your replies are INLINE

>>

>>

>> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.com> wrote in message

>> news:%23KLaSNbBIHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>> A base jumper would disagree with you on your first point..

>>>

>>> 'Vista sucks' is not enough on its own to use as a basis for research..

>>>

>>> WPA..

>>> many companies have adopted activation..

>>

>> Yeah because MS was the first to start this, a truley stupid and

>> innafective way to protect your programs

>>

>

> But one that is now adopted and used by many and is not a product defect.

>

>>>

>>> WGA..

>>> It doesn't affect the majority of users

>>>

>>

>>

>>

>>> WGA/N..

>>> EU should keep their noses out

>>

>> Newsflash: the US is a moniroty compared to the whole rest of the world.

>>

>

> And in Europe you can buy either the full or N release - again not a

> defect and not an problem.

>

>>> UAC..

>>> it can be turned OFF

>>

>> The simple user does not understand why a frikin pop up comes in

>> his/her fast a trillion times a day.

>> THey should not be forced to fiddle with settings, and they most

>> probably leave it on and torcher then forever

>>

>

> Lack of user education or the inability for a user to look in the online

> help does not qualify as a defect.

> For regular users UAC does not normally pop up at all - it is related to

> performing tasks that are potentially risky in some way whatever you

> believe about reflex conditioned response to just press yes - at least

> we are getting something to show that potentially risky operation in

> taking place.

> Maybe you run all day as an admin and want any code you click on to run

> without any prompt but your lack of security and good practices should

> not hinder the rest of the world who do need protecting (yes from

> themselves)

>

>>>

>>> Indexing..

>>> it can be turned OFF

>>> "Search"..

>>> it works better than ever it did before

>>

>> The simple user does not understand why a frikin servuce is thrasing

>> their disk making the PC slower all the time, giving them erroneous

>> results in searches.

>

> Searching and index use low priority processes and while a disk may be

> active this does not impact the regular users ability to work as when IO

> is required those processes back off.

> Certainly I agree with the original poster that search is significantly

> better then previous versions.

>

>> THey should not be forced to fiddle with settings, and they most

>> probably leave it on and torcher then forever.

>> Indexing and search are the 2 most STUPID THINGS in vista, the way

>> that they are implimented are HORRID.

>>

>

> "stupid", "horrible" - not exactly technical terms - again you are

> sounding more like a child then a professional person engaging in a

> measured discussion. Also the use of this language is again

> personalizing your view of the technology and is hardly objective.

>

>>>

>>> No Compiz-Fusion.. oh mercy

>>>

>>> Clunky, fixed Windows.. ?

>>

>>>

>>> IE7..

>>> definitely better than IE6

>>

>> The Ie7 interface stinks BIG time... you cant put the toolbars and

>> buttons where you want it, and the menu is hidden for crying out loud...

>> if you had ANY experience with actual users, you would know how horrid

>> IE7 is. I mean I have been monitoring the IE7 newsgroup

>> and I KNOW how much people HATE IT HATE IT HATE IT!!!!!

>>

>

> "Hate" "horrid" etc all again just personal opinions about the UI - not

> defects.

>

>> I like tabs.. but the way they are implimented in ie7 is sick.. gesh

>> they cant get anything right!

>>

>

> again personal opinion - none objective and not a defect.

>

>>>

>>> WMP 11.. other choices are out there, and all can be set as default

>>>

>>

>> Thank you... WMP11 stinks big time and I forget it.... but you cant

>> remove it cant you?

>

> You buy the N version for Vista without Media Player.

>

>>

>>> DRM..

>>> an entertainment industry product

>>

>>

>>

>>> Price is waaaaaaaaaaaay too high in Europe, i.e., over 800 US Dollars

>>> for Ultimate Retail.

>>> But what is it in local currency relative to what people earn?

>>

>> Europe has verious levels of income depending on country. In some

>> coutries vista is way to expensive.. you dont understand because you

>> are darn ignorant about the rest of the world arent you???

>>

>>> No 3D Cube

>>> Nobody needs this

>>

>> Nobody needs multiple desktops with a nice easy interface? I can tell

>> you from personal experience the CUBE and the multiple desktop BOOSTS

>> productivity in tremendus way..

>> but I guess an MS fanboy like you has not tried it yet.. have you?

>>

>

> Unfortunatly one Ubuntu fan boys view of what makes him more productive

> is just a load of eye candy to another. If you have some research

> papers on UI design for increased productivity through the use of

> multiple desktops and cubic UI then please post the links. Remember

> this is for regular day to day users not IT geeks etc. If a user cannot

> find the help for UAC as discussed above just what are they going to do

> to find their desktops which have ne app on when they are on another or

> do they press some key to get a cube (only six side so haw many desktop

> do I want or need etc ).

>

>>

>>> Only one desktop

>>> And your point is?

>>

>> Read above

>>

>

> ditto

>

>>

>>> The need for a high end computer to run it.

>>

>>> Any computer supplied with Vista pre-installed will cost no more than

>>> a computer installed with XP. The only people affected will be those

>>> upgrading from XP on older machines. Nobody is forced to upgrade.

>>> That is a personal choice, just like this list of yours is all

>>> personal dislikes which are as applicable to XP or Windows 2000 for

>>> the most part.

>>>

>>

>> Vista is 20-50% slower than XP on all hardware.. you clearly have no

>> clue and you are wasting our time here...!!!

>>

>

> That has not bee substantiated and is a huge generalization.

>

>> GO AWAY!

>>

>

> The same could be requested of you - but as this is a public discussion,

> then I'm sure you will support that all voices should be heard - or

> would you like to stamp your feet some more and try and shout down

> anyone in the group that does not agree with you ?

>

>>

>>

>>>

>>>

>>> "Alias" <iamalias@shoesgmail.com> wrote in message

>>> news:fdvt84$1f1$1@aioe.org...

>>>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>>>>> He isn't using Vista, probably never has..

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>> One doesn't have to jump off a 50 story building to know that it

>>>> isn't a good idea. Are you suggesting that one should just blindly

>>>> buy something without researching it first?

>>>>

>>>> --

>>>> Alias

>>>> To email me, remove shoes

>>>

>>

>>

>

 

I've never seen an N version for XP or for Vista in Spain.

 

--

Alias

To email me, remove shoes

A lawyer is going to want you to present verifiable details of the defects

(on ALL Vista systems - not just some systems). He is not going to do

research without you giving him leads. You haven't.

 

--

 

 

Regards,

 

Richard Urban

Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User

(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

 

 

"Tibery-OS" <Tib@OS.com> wrote in message

news:4703817d@newsgate.x-privat.org...

> Over one and a half years in this darn newsgroup since it existed I have

> explained almost EVERY detail why vista sucks... (there are more but GESH

> its just too much!)

>

> I have repeated most of the main things again and again...

>

> You want to know why vista sucks? Do some research in google groups

> you will find all the info you need there.

>

> Stop whinning.. vista sucks whether you like it or not

>

>

> "Mike Brannigan" <Mike.Brannigan@localhost> wrote in message

> news:ujllMtaBIHA.4712@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>> "Tibery-OS" <Tib@OS.com> wrote in message

>> news:470370b6$1@newsgate.x-privat.org...

>>> Why clarify man? He says vista sucks and that's all you have to know

>>>

>>> What would it help if he told you one feature sucks or the other?

>>>

>>> Overall it sucks and its not fixable because the stupidness of vista

>>> is too well integrated with that darn OS.

>>>

>>> If MS was willing to haul in vista and rewrite it from scratch THEN we

>>> might be giving you detailed answers. But SP are not rewrites... the

>>> mainly fix some issues,

>>> and add some stuff (not even that will happen in sp1 they wont be adding

>>> anything). MS is stuck with a monster they created and simply cannot go

>>> back now!

>>>

>>> The problem with vista starts with its very idea about what an OS should

>>> be... this lack of understanding is surprising.... MS had the experience

>>> but Vista shows

>>> that the people working on it, either were newbies fresh out of

>>> collages, or the people guiding the teams were new to this and have no

>>> idea what people want.

>>>

>>> Vista is doomed.... forget about it. Its already good as dead...

>>>

>>> so look ahead into a better and brighter future..

>>>

>>

>> He is asking for a class action suit and cannot (as yet) actually

>> justify his claims of defects.

>> Unless he can come back with a detailed list of so called defects he does

>> not have a case.

>> You are not helping either as again you are just using the the "vista

>> sucks and that's all you have to know" acquisition against the product.

>> Again meaningless ,so yes we would all like to see that list of defects

>> provide in detail and not just some this doesn't work like it did in XP

>> or it's "stupid" childish approaches.

>>

>> Microsoft do not have to withdrawn anything to get you to provide

>> "detailed answers" if you don't provide it now how do you expect anyone

>> (including Microsoft) to actually understand what your problems are then

>> triage them for fixing etc.

>> Again it is no good stamping your feet like a petulant child and saying

>> "they have to rewrite it" and yet not provide the detail anyone would

>> expect for such as demand or a class action suit.

>>

>> Please by all means when you provide the detail of defects - also include

>> your better then Microsoft's understanding of "the very idea about what

>> an OS should be"

>> So lets have the detail of defects and then your view of an OS.

>> It really is as simple as if you cannot provide the list of defects then

>> you might as well refrain from any further postulating with "vista is

>> doomed .. dead" etc.

>> --

>>

>> Mike Brannigan

>>

>> "Tibery-OS" <Tib@OS.com> wrote in message

>> news:470370b6$1@newsgate.x-privat.org...

>>> Why clarify man? He says vista sucks and that's all you have to know

>>>

>>> What would it help if he told you one feature sucks or the other?

>>>

>>> Overall it sucks and its not fixable because the stupidness of vista

>>> is too well integrated with that darn OS.

>>>

>>> If MS was willing to haul in vista and rewrite it from scratch THEN we

>>> might be giving you detailed answers. But SP are not rewrites... the

>>> mainly fix some issues,

>>> and add some stuff (not even that will happen in sp1 they wont be adding

>>> anything). MS is stuck with a monster they created and simply cannot go

>>> back now!

>>>

>>> The problem with vista starts with its very idea about what an OS should

>>> be... this lack of understanding is surprising.... MS had the experience

>>> but Vista shows

>>> that the people working on it, either were newbies fresh out of

>>> collages, or the people guiding the teams were new to this and have no

>>> idea what people want.

>>>

>>> Vista is doomed.... forget about it. Its already good as dead...

>>>

>>> so look ahead into a better and brighter future..

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> "Mike Brannigan" <Mike.Brannigan@localhost> wrote in message

>>> news:7294EDC8-AA1F-4232-A9A5-F9362C15F6C2@microsoft.com...

>>>> "wheelman" <wheelman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>>>> news:D5A14001-8126-4912-B176-1C846B622A05@microsoft.com...

>>>>> see what im saying.some one all ways comes on and messes with us,when

>>>>> we are

>>>>> talking about how defective vista is and all the problems every one is

>>>>> haveing.

>>>>>

>>>>> they want to take up for microsoft who is screwing us to no end.we

>>>>> know he

>>>>> sees the post here and how all are negitive.so is microsoft paying

>>>>> these guys

>>>>> to jump in our post and mess with us,i wouldnt put it past them..i

>>>>> have been

>>>>> trying for four months to strighten out this os..you get one thing to

>>>>> work

>>>>> and it does something else so something want work.im

>>>>>

>>>>> done with complaining.we need a class action law suit..it would be so

>>>>> great

>>>>> to give it back to the people,thats doing it to us..and to the people

>>>>> that

>>>>> want to come into our post..and mess with us,take a hike,you are not

>>>>> wanted...

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>> So you are still avoiding the issue - if you want a class action suit

>>>> then you need to clearly state what you think is defective (in detail)

>>>> about Windows Vista.

>>>> So fare you have said nothing , so one one is going to take you

>>>> seriously.

>>>> I doubt any lawyer is going to take you up on this is you are not

>>>> capable of even beginning to clearly state the nature of the defects

>>>> you wish to site in the suit.

>>>> So come on provide the details now if you really think you have a case.

>>>>

>>>> And as regards

>>>>>and to the people that

>>>>> want to come into our post..and mess with us,take a hike,you are not

>>>>> wanted...

>>>> You know that is the point of posting a discussion? - to have one !.

>>>> So me asking you to provide detail is not "messing with your post" -

>>>> but asking you to clarify the nature of your issues. If you can't do

>>>> that then you have no case.

>>>> --

>>>> Mike Brannigan

>>>>

>>>> "wheelman" <wheelman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>>>> news:D5A14001-8126-4912-B176-1C846B622A05@microsoft.com...

>>>>> see what im saying.some one all ways comes on and messes with us,when

>>>>> we are

>>>>> talking about how defective vista is and all the problems every one is

>>>>> haveing.

>>>>>

>>>>> they want to take up for microsoft who is screwing us to no end.we

>>>>> know he

>>>>> sees the post here and how all are negitive.so is microsoft paying

>>>>> these guys

>>>>> to jump in our post and mess with us,i wouldnt put it past them..i

>>>>> have been

>>>>> trying for four months to strighten out this os..you get one thing to

>>>>> work

>>>>> and it does something else so something want work.im

>>>>>

>>>>> done with complaining.we need a class action law suit..it would be so

>>>>> great

>>>>> to give it back to the people,thats doing it to us..and to the people

>>>>> that

>>>>> want to come into our post..and mess with us,take a hike,you are not

>>>>> wanted...

>>>>>

>>>>> "Mike Brannigan" wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>>> "wheelman" <wheelman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>>>>>> news:D17EF881-3302-471E-BECA-09BDEE8B5BD9@microsoft.com...

>>>>>> > looks like there would be some lawyer some where,that would start a

>>>>>> > class

>>>>>> > action lawsuit for us.maybe thats what microsoft needs..they sure

>>>>>> > do not

>>>>>> > care

>>>>>> > about us or putting out a defective product..bill gates likes to

>>>>>> > give away

>>>>>> > money to charities,that he stole from us,maybe we could take back

>>>>>> > some of

>>>>>> > the

>>>>>> > billions,he and his company cheated us out of..i know after months

>>>>>> > of this

>>>>>> > defective,vista os,i would sign up..if they are not stoped ,they

>>>>>> > are just

>>>>>> > going to continue to make and sell more defective,,products..lets

>>>>>> > get this

>>>>>> > lawsuit started...

>>>>>>

>>>>>> You have not yet managed to make any actual definitive statement in

>>>>>> any of

>>>>>> your recent posts that clearly state why you believe Windows Vista is

>>>>>> "defective".

>>>>>> It is not use just shout you don't like it or it does not work with

>>>>>> your old

>>>>>> application or hardware due to app compat or driver issues.

>>>>>> Frankly there are millions of users of Vista world world that are not

>>>>>> seeing

>>>>>> a defective product and certainly thousands of users that I have

>>>>>> deployed

>>>>>> Vista too that are fully functional without issue or concern.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> So why not post your actual definite, clearly articulated and

>>>>>> detailed point

>>>>>> by point analysis of why you believe Vista is "defective" - remember

>>>>>> if you

>>>>>> really want a class action suit will need to be able to do this so

>>>>>> that each

>>>>>> point can be investigated in detail to see if it really is a defect.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> So please do post back with your complete detailed list of points.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> --

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Mike Brannigan

>>>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>>

>>

>

>

"Mike Brannigan" <Mike.Brannigan@localhost> wrote in message

news:450EA202-90A6-416F-8BB5-C01A8374439B@microsoft.com...

> "Kevin Weaver" <kevinkeithweaver@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message

> news:f4IMi.212$lE2.68@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...

>> I'm going to call this number in the am.

>>

>> Microsoft offers a 45 day refund on all there products.

>>

>> Along with a up to 7.00 for return shipping. The number to call:

>>

>> 1-888-673-8624

>>

>> I bought my copy the 1st day. After the 1st few weeks the joy was gone.

>> But I waited and waited thinking it would be fixed. After seeing the beta

>> SP-1 I'm not at all Impressed. I know, I know. It's a beta. But Waiting

>> for another 4 -7 months for a "It might be fixed"

>>

>

> Kevin,

>

> Why not post what you think needs to be fixed (be precise about this and

> provide lots of detail).

> In many cases this these are not problems with the OS

 

heh, but in many cases it IS

Mike Brannigan

"Alias" <iamalias@shoesgmail.com> wrote in message

news:fe03n9$kp7$1@aioe.org...

>

> I've never seen an N version for XP or for Vista in Spain.

>

> --

> Alias

> To email me, remove shoes

 

see

http://www.misco.es/productinformation/~6485TD~WW~/Actualizacin%20de%20Microsoft%20Windows%20Vista%20Home%20Basic%20N%20(sin%20MediaPlayer)%20y%20enDVD..htm

http://www.audiotronics.es/product.aspx?productid=39859

 

and other suppliers

 

Mike Brannigan

--

"Mike Brannigan" <Mike.Brannigan@localhost> wrote:

 

Mike, please stop feeding the trolls.

 

 

--

XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups

The Usenet Improvement Project:

http://improve-usenet.org

"Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote:

 

You too, Richard, please stop feeding the trolls.

 

 

 

--

XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups

The Usenet Improvement Project:

http://improve-usenet.org

"wheelman" <wheelman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:D17EF881-3302-471E-BECA-09BDEE8B5BD9@microsoft.com...

> looks like there would be some lawyer some where,that would start a class

> action lawsuit for us.maybe thats what microsoft needs..they sure do not

> care

> about us or putting out a defective product..bill gates likes to give away

> money to charities,that he stole from us,maybe we could take back some of

> the

> billions,he and his company cheated us out of..i know after months of this

> defective,vista os,i would sign up..if they are not stoped ,they are just

> going to continue to make and sell more defective,,products..lets get this

> lawsuit started...

 

 

This cry for action happens every time a client OS is launched - usually by

a lawyer because basically only the lawyers who are the one's that see

anything from class action. Why aren't you crying out about XP? Here's why:

it's mature. Whereas Vista is still teething and awaits its first Service

Pack (SP1). Many companies will not migrate until at least SP1 and this is

for good reason. SP1 means the OS has been out a while and a lot of feedback

is gotten in from the 'real world' enabling the engineers at Microsoft to

more properly debug and stablize the OS beyond what they could do with the

beta programs.

 

And give Microsoft a break. They are doing what no one else does: managing

an OS system so that it runs on most of the computers out there, with most

of the hardware out there [no matter how old it is] and most of the software

out there [no matter how many years ago the software was written - Vista

will run Word Wand for crying out loud] and so on .. it's like one of the

twelve labours of Hercules.

 

Saucy

"Wim Hekken -)" <a@b.invalid> wrote in message

news:OPqq6saBIHA.2004@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> wheelman was ranting in:

>> looks like there would be some lawyer some where,that would start a class

>> action lawsuit for us.maybe that's what microsoft needs..they sure do not

>> care about us or putting out a defective product..bill gates likes to

>> give away money to charities,that he stole from us,maybe we could take

>> back some of the billions,he and his company cheated us out of..i know

>> after months of this defective,vista os, i would sign up..if they are not

>> stoped ,they are just going to continue to make and sell more

>> defective,,products..lets get this lawsuit started...

>

> Install Linux or by an Apple computer.

> --

>

> Wim Hekken :-)

 

 

Don't do that.

 

Saucy

Mike Brannigan wrote:

> Mike Brannigan

> "Alias" <iamalias@shoesgmail.com> wrote in message

> news:fe03n9$kp7$1@aioe.org...

>>

>> I've never seen an N version for XP or for Vista in Spain.

>>

>> --

>> Alias

>> To email me, remove shoes

>

> see

> http://www.misco.es/productinformation/~6485TD~WW~/Actualizacin%20de%20Microsoft%20Windows%20Vista%20Home%20Basic%20N%20(sin%20MediaPlayer)%20y%20enDVD..htm

>

> http://www.audiotronics.es/product.aspx?productid=39859

>

> and other suppliers

>

> Mike Brannigan

 

Those stores are in Madrid. I don't live in Madrid. I haven't seen the N

version where I live.

 

--

Alias

To email me, remove shoes

Not once in this entire thread have I seen ANY concrete evidence being

provided about 'defects' in Vista. Those 'defects' that have been mentioned

are features in the OS, most of which can be disabled if you do not wish to

use them. Of course, you are entitled to your views and opinions, but

remember that nobody is forcing you to use Vista, or indeed any Microsoft

product.

 

"wheelman" wrote:

> looks like there would be some lawyer some where,that would start a class

> action lawsuit for us.maybe thats what microsoft needs..they sure do not care

> about us or putting out a defective product..bill gates likes to give away

> money to charities,that he stole from us,maybe we could take back some of the

> billions,he and his company cheated us out of..i know after months of this

> defective,vista os,i would sign up..if they are not stoped ,they are just

> going to continue to make and sell more defective,,products..lets get this

> lawsuit started...

"Alias" <iamalias@shoesgmail.com> wrote in message

news:fe0a2n$97v$1@aioe.org...

> Mike Brannigan wrote:

>> Mike Brannigan

>> "Alias" <iamalias@shoesgmail.com> wrote in message

>> news:fe03n9$kp7$1@aioe.org...

>>>

>>> I've never seen an N version for XP or for Vista in Spain.

>>>

>>> --

>>> Alias

>>> To email me, remove shoes

>>

>> see

>> http://www.misco.es/productinformation/~6485TD~WW~/Actualizacin%20de%20Microsoft%20Windows%20Vista%20Home%20Basic%20N%20(sin%20MediaPlayer)%20y%20enDVD..htm

>> http://www.audiotronics.es/product.aspx?productid=39859

>>

>> and other suppliers

>>

>> Mike Brannigan

>

> Those stores are in Madrid. I don't live in Madrid. I haven't seen the N

> version where I live.

>

> --

> Alias

> To email me, remove shoes

 

Those stores are ONLINE - it does not matter where you live in Spain.

Just because your local PC store does not stock it does not mean that it is

not available. It obviously is.

Also a number of retailers choose to not stock it as

1. They are not required to under the EU ruling

2. Demand for it is so low as to not warrant the wasted effort of holding it

in stock.

 

--

 

Mike Brannigan

wheelman wrote:

> looks like there would be some lawyer some where,that would start a class

> action lawsuit for us.maybe thats what microsoft needs..they sure do not care

> about us or putting out a defective product..bill gates likes to give away

> money to charities,that he stole from us,maybe we could take back some of the

> billions,he and his company cheated us out of..i know after months of this

> defective,vista os,i would sign up..if they are not stoped ,they are just

> going to continue to make and sell more defective,,products..lets get this

> lawsuit started...

 

Yeah, it's about time to hit MS with another one of those again! )

 

--

Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:

http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

 

"Fair use is not merely a nice concept--it is a federal law based on

free speech rights under the First Amendment and is a cornerstone of the

creativity and innovation that is a hallmark of this country. Consumer

rights in the digital age are not frivolous."

- Maura Corbett

Mike Brannigan wrote:

> "Alias" <iamalias@shoesgmail.com> wrote in message

> news:fe0a2n$97v$1@aioe.org...

>> Mike Brannigan wrote:

>>> Mike Brannigan

>>> "Alias" <iamalias@shoesgmail.com> wrote in message

>>> news:fe03n9$kp7$1@aioe.org...

>>>>

>>>> I've never seen an N version for XP or for Vista in Spain.

>>>>

>>>> --

>>>> Alias

>>>> To email me, remove shoes

>>>

>>> see

>>> http://www.misco.es/productinformation/~6485TD~WW~/Actualizacin%

 

20de%20Microsoft%20Windows%20Vista%20Home%20Basic%20N%20(sin%20MediaPl

 

ayer)%20y%20enDVD..htm

>>> http://www.audiotronics.es/product.aspx?productid=39859

>>>

>>> and other suppliers

>>>

>>> Mike Brannigan

>>

>> Those stores are in Madrid. I don't live in Madrid. I haven't seen the

>> N version where I live.

>>

>> --

>> Alias

>> To email me, remove shoes

>

> Those stores are ONLINE - it does not matter where you live in Spain.

> Just because your local PC store does not stock it does not mean that it

> is not available. It obviously is.

> Also a number of retailers choose to not stock it as

> 1. They are not required to under the EU ruling

> 2. Demand for it is so low as to not warrant the wasted effort of

> holding it in stock.

>

 

I agree. That said, I would never, ever, install WMP11 on XP. 10 works

just fine and I have the set up for 10 saved in case I need to

reinstall. I also don't use the latest WinAmp, although I now have all

my music and video on an Ubuntu machine and I use Amarok which is a

great program.

 

--

Alias

To email me, remove shoes

You should get out more. Trying to get Ubuntu working for you is cramping

your style somewhat.

 

This is closer to you, maybe..

 

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://pccity.edigital.es/Nuestras%2520tiendas/Detalle%3Fposicion100%3D16&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=2&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DPC%2BWorld%2BAlicante%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:*

 

 

"Alias" <iamalias@shoesgmail.com> wrote in message

news:fe0a2n$97v$1@aioe.org...

> Mike Brannigan wrote:

>> Mike Brannigan

>> "Alias" <iamalias@shoesgmail.com> wrote in message

>> news:fe03n9$kp7$1@aioe.org...

>>>

>>> I've never seen an N version for XP or for Vista in Spain.

>>>

>>> --

>>> Alias

>>> To email me, remove shoes

>>

>> see

>> http://www.misco.es/productinformation/~6485TD~WW~/Actualizacin%20de%20Microsoft%20Windows%20Vista%20Home%20Basic%20N%20(sin%20MediaPlayer)%20y%20enDVD..htm

>> http://www.audiotronics.es/product.aspx?productid=39859

>>

>> and other suppliers

>>

>> Mike Brannigan

>

> Those stores are in Madrid. I don't live in Madrid. I haven't seen the N

> version where I live.

>

> --

> Alias

> To email me, remove shoes

Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

> You should get out more. Trying to get Ubuntu working for you is

> cramping your style somewhat.

>

> This is closer to you, maybe..

>

> http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=

 

http://pccity.edigital.es/Nuestras%2520tiendas/Detalle%3Fposicion100%3D16&s

 

a=X&oi=translate&resnum=2&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DPC%2BWorld%2BAlica

 

nte%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:*

 

I don't live in Alicante either. That said, I have no use for an extra

copy of XP and do not plan to use the Vista I have sitting on the shelf

either, N or no N.

 

 

--

Alias

To email me, remove shoes

Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

> You don't even run Vista. Some spokesperson you would be, eh..

>

 

Is this what your crystal ball tells you?

>

> "wheelman" <wheelman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> news:D17EF881-3302-471E-BECA-09BDEE8B5BD9@microsoft.com...

>> looks like there would be some lawyer some where,that would start a class

>> action lawsuit for us.maybe thats what microsoft needs..they sure do

>> not care

>> about us or putting out a defective product..bill gates likes to give

>> away

>> money to charities,that he stole from us,maybe we could take back some

>> of the

>> billions,he and his company cheated us out of..i know after months of

>> this

>> defective,vista os,i would sign up..if they are not stoped ,they are just

>> going to continue to make and sell more defective,,products..lets get

>> this

>> lawsuit started...

>

 

--

Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:

http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

 

"Fair use is not merely a nice concept--it is a federal law based on

free speech rights under the First Amendment and is a cornerstone of the

creativity and innovation that is a hallmark of this country. Consumer

rights in the digital age are not frivolous."

- Maura Corbett

Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

> He isn't using Vista, probably never has..

>

 

It appears he has and may still be, Mike.

http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windows.vista.general/msg/94acd1877cf3f7cd

>

> "Tibery-OS" <Tib@OS.com> wrote in message

> news:470370b6$1@newsgate.x-privat.org...

>> Why clarify man? He says vista sucks and that's all you have to know

>>

>> What would it help if he told you one feature sucks or the other?

>>

>> Overall it sucks and its not fixable because the stupidness of vista

>> is too well integrated with that darn OS.

>>

>> If MS was willing to haul in vista and rewrite it from scratch THEN we

>> might be giving you detailed answers. But SP are not rewrites... the

>> mainly fix some issues,

>> and add some stuff (not even that will happen in sp1 they wont be

>> adding anything). MS is stuck with a monster they created and simply

>> cannot go back now!

>>

>> The problem with vista starts with its very idea about what an OS

>> should be... this lack of understanding is surprising.... MS had the

>> experience but Vista shows

>> that the people working on it, either were newbies fresh out of

>> collages, or the people guiding the teams were new to this and have no

>> idea what people want.

>>

>> Vista is doomed.... forget about it. Its already good as dead...

>>

>> so look ahead into a better and brighter future..

>>

>>

>>

>> "Mike Brannigan" <Mike.Brannigan@localhost> wrote in message

>> news:7294EDC8-AA1F-4232-A9A5-F9362C15F6C2@microsoft.com...

>>> "wheelman" <wheelman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>>> news:D5A14001-8126-4912-B176-1C846B622A05@microsoft.com...

>>>> see what im saying.some one all ways comes on and messes with

>>>> us,when we are

>>>> talking about how defective vista is and all the problems every one is

>>>> haveing.

>>>>

>>>> they want to take up for microsoft who is screwing us to no end.we

>>>> know he

>>>> sees the post here and how all are negitive.so is microsoft paying

>>>> these guys

>>>> to jump in our post and mess with us,i wouldnt put it past them..i

>>>> have been

>>>> trying for four months to strighten out this os..you get one thing

>>>> to work

>>>> and it does something else so something want work.im

>>>>

>>>> done with complaining.we need a class action law suit..it would be

>>>> so great

>>>> to give it back to the people,thats doing it to us..and to the

>>>> people that

>>>> want to come into our post..and mess with us,take a hike,you are not

>>>> wanted...

>>>>

>>>

>>> So you are still avoiding the issue - if you want a class action suit

>>> then you need to clearly state what you think is defective (in

>>> detail) about Windows Vista.

>>> So fare you have said nothing , so one one is going to take you

>>> seriously.

>>> I doubt any lawyer is going to take you up on this is you are not

>>> capable of even beginning to clearly state the nature of the defects

>>> you wish to site in the suit.

>>> So come on provide the details now if you really think you have a case.

>>>

>>> And as regards

>>>> and to the people that

>>>> want to come into our post..and mess with us,take a hike,you are not

>>>> wanted...

>>> You know that is the point of posting a discussion? - to have one !.

>>> So me asking you to provide detail is not "messing with your post" -

>>> but asking you to clarify the nature of your issues. If you can't do

>>> that then you have no case.

>>> --

>>> Mike Brannigan

>>>

>>> "wheelman" <wheelman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>>> news:D5A14001-8126-4912-B176-1C846B622A05@microsoft.com...

>>>> see what im saying.some one all ways comes on and messes with

>>>> us,when we are

>>>> talking about how defective vista is and all the problems every one is

>>>> haveing.

>>>>

>>>> they want to take up for microsoft who is screwing us to no end.we

>>>> know he

>>>> sees the post here and how all are negitive.so is microsoft paying

>>>> these guys

>>>> to jump in our post and mess with us,i wouldnt put it past them..i

>>>> have been

>>>> trying for four months to strighten out this os..you get one thing

>>>> to work

>>>> and it does something else so something want work.im

>>>>

>>>> done with complaining.we need a class action law suit..it would be

>>>> so great

>>>> to give it back to the people,thats doing it to us..and to the

>>>> people that

>>>> want to come into our post..and mess with us,take a hike,you are not

>>>> wanted...

>>>>

>>>> "Mike Brannigan" wrote:

>>>>

>>>>> "wheelman" <wheelman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>>>>> news:D17EF881-3302-471E-BECA-09BDEE8B5BD9@microsoft.com...

>>>>> > looks like there would be some lawyer some where,that would start

>>>>> a > class

>>>>> > action lawsuit for us.maybe thats what microsoft needs..they sure

>>>>> do > not

>>>>> > care

>>>>> > about us or putting out a defective product..bill gates likes to

>>>>> give > away

>>>>> > money to charities,that he stole from us,maybe we could take back

>>>>> > some of

>>>>> > the

>>>>> > billions,he and his company cheated us out of..i know after

>>>>> months of > this

>>>>> > defective,vista os,i would sign up..if they are not stoped ,they

>>>>> are > just

>>>>> > going to continue to make and sell more defective,,products..lets

>>>>> get > this

>>>>> > lawsuit started...

>>>>>

>>>>> You have not yet managed to make any actual definitive statement in

>>>>> any of

>>>>> your recent posts that clearly state why you believe Windows Vista is

>>>>> "defective".

>>>>> It is not use just shout you don't like it or it does not work with

>>>>> your old

>>>>> application or hardware due to app compat or driver issues.

>>>>> Frankly there are millions of users of Vista world world that are

>>>>> not seeing

>>>>> a defective product and certainly thousands of users that I have

>>>>> deployed

>>>>> Vista too that are fully functional without issue or concern.

>>>>>

>>>>> So why not post your actual definite, clearly articulated and

>>>>> detailed point

>>>>> by point analysis of why you believe Vista is "defective" -

>>>>> remember if you

>>>>> really want a class action suit will need to be able to do this so

>>>>> that each

>>>>> point can be investigated in detail to see if it really is a defect.

>>>>>

>>>>> So please do post back with your complete detailed list of points.

>>>>>

 

--

Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:

http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

 

"Fair use is not merely a nice concept--it is a federal law based on

free speech rights under the First Amendment and is a cornerstone of the

creativity and innovation that is a hallmark of this country. Consumer

rights in the digital age are not frivolous."

- Maura Corbett

Mike Brannigan wrote:

> "Alias" <iamalias@shoesgmail.com> wrote in message

> news:fdvsrk$m1$1@aioe.org...

>>

>> Off the top of my head, here are some of the defects:

>>

>> WPA

>> WGA

>> WGA/N

>> UAC

>> Indexing

>> "Search"

>

> All the above are product features not defects - unless you can state

> some specific areas where that feature breaks or is defective (your

> personal opinion as to the use of WGA or WPA should exist are not

> relevent) then these are not valid.

 

How about MS's own admission that 1 in 5 WGA/N results are flawed? WPA

& WGA/N are buggy pieces of DRM.

>

>> No Compiz-Fusion

>

> Sorry no idea what that means

>

>> Clunky, fixed Windows

>

> Look and feel of the OS is not a defect but a design decision and does

> not impact functionality of the product.

 

You are out of your mind if you don't think that eye candy would not

complicate the OS or make it run slower sometimes.

>

>> IE7

>> WMP 11

>> DRM

>

> Again just features or technologies - you have not stated what the

> defect is.

 

Buggy DRM. You are not trying to say that those items listed above are

perfect and have no problems, are you?

>

>> Price is waaaaaaaaaaaay too high in Europe, i.e., over 800 US Dollars

>> for Ultimate Retail.

>

> Windows Ultimate Retail is about £234.04 (UK) which is appox$450 USD.

> I see no problem with that as retail US is $319.99 (USD)

> [source UK - http://www.ebuyer.com , US - http://www.newegg.com]

> Of course price comparison is tricky at the moment with USD being so

> week against other currencies e.g. $1 USD is now £0.45 UK

>

>> No 3D Cube

>> Only one desktop

>

> Neither of these are defects - they are just UI features that are not in

> the product. This is no more a defect then one car having a sun roof

> and the other having air conditioning.

>

>> The need for a high end computer to run it.

>>

>

> Again not a defect - Windows Vista Basic has an extremely low minimum

> specification. And an increase in required spec is not a defect for a

> new product with greater features and functionality over the previous

> version. You might as well say Windows XP is defective when you compare

> the min requirements to those of Windows 3.1.

>

>> That said, a class action suit is stupid. If one doesn't want or like

>> Vista, there are plenty of better alternatives including XP.

>>

>

> Indeed.

>

 

--

Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:

http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

 

"Fair use is not merely a nice concept--it is a federal law based on

free speech rights under the First Amendment and is a cornerstone of the

creativity and innovation that is a hallmark of this country. Consumer

rights in the digital age are not frivolous."

- Maura Corbett

Dwarf wrote:

> Not once in this entire thread have I seen ANY concrete evidence being

> provided about 'defects' in Vista. Those 'defects' that have been mentioned

> are features in the OS, most of which can be disabled if you do not wish to

> use them. Of course, you are entitled to your views and opinions, but

> remember that nobody is forcing you to use Vista, or indeed any Microsoft

> product.

 

One of those 'features' of vista is the stealth updates. Where is it

documented how to turn that off?

>

> "wheelman" wrote:

>

>> looks like there would be some lawyer some where,that would start a class

>> action lawsuit for us.maybe thats what microsoft needs..they sure do not care

>> about us or putting out a defective product..bill gates likes to give away

>> money to charities,that he stole from us,maybe we could take back some of the

>> billions,he and his company cheated us out of..i know after months of this

>> defective,vista os,i would sign up..if they are not stoped ,they are just

>> going to continue to make and sell more defective,,products..lets get this

>> lawsuit started...

 

--

Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:

http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

 

"Fair use is not merely a nice concept--it is a federal law based on

free speech rights under the First Amendment and is a cornerstone of the

creativity and innovation that is a hallmark of this country. Consumer

rights in the digital age are not frivolous."

- Maura Corbett