monitor

[peterr]

How about doing damage or not, continuing to use the PC NVidea card?

[DSTM]

You said you wanted to stop the flickering. I don't follow your thinking.

[peterr]

The flickering is not so bad that I cannot tolerate it. It is just abnormal and I though I could fix it that is why i pursued it. I appreciate your suggestion to use the on board card, very much.

i was simply asking If I will damage my PC if I continued to use the NVidea card. I know I will lose some RAM if i go with the on board card as it has none and has to borrow.

 

Incidentally, I went to the Dell site and they do not recommend using my PC with Win 10 as they have not tested it.

 

So yes, the question remains, will damage be done if the current card is still used.

Sorry abut the mislead.

[Bill M.]

No Peter, using it will not damage the rest of the machine, but someday the card will just die.

[DSTM]

You system specs show your system has ample ram to support on board video.

As for will it damage the PC to continue using the damaged card I can't give an informed reply.

Would I continue to use the damaged card? No I wouldn't take any risk.

I have never continued to use a damaged card

[peterr]

I will follow your advice and run the on board one. Thank you for your patience and help.

[DSTM]

Your Welcome, Peterr.:)

[Digerati]

Low wattage increases voltage to the card.

Ummm, sorry, but that's not how it works. Because of the regulation imposed by the PSU itself and across the motherboard, voltages are constant (+12V and/or +5VDC or +3.3VDC). In DC circuits, Watts = Volts x Amps. So "if" the wattage decreased, with a constant voltage, the "current" had to decrease too. Voltages do not increase or decrease - only the current flow does (assuming the supply is capable of supporting the demand).

 

But regardless, if the power supply was incapable if providing sufficient current (thus wattage) the graphics card (or likely the whole computer) would have become unstable. And you are not reporting that.

 

The ATX standard for tolerances in power supply outputs is ±5%. So IF Speccy is correct, your 12V is fine. But as others suggested, your +5V is too low. That said, I have noticed Speccy (and other HW monitors too) don't always show some of the voltages properly. For example, clearly my voltages could not be correct if Speccy was correct.

 

 

But a quick check with HWiNFO64 shows the real picture:

 

 

So I recommend before paying for a new supply, you either have your PSU professionally checked, swap in a spare PSU and see if your problem goes away, or invest in a decent PSU Tester. The advantage of this model is that it has a LCD readout of the voltages instead of just a LED suggesting the voltage is within "some" range.

 

I also think you should try your monitor on your wife's notebook just to be sure this monitor is okay. As the second monitor, it likely is, but this is a free, easy and conclusive test.

 

Assuming your PSU really is fine, I suspect it is your graphics card. This "flicker" may just be getting confused over resolutions - or even type of signal (digital or analog) it is supposed to be using. That is, it could be losing sync with the monitor. Or the card is just failing. I don't suspect the PSU because typically, if failing or underpowered, you have computer stability issues where it suddenly reboots, shutsdown or freezes. And if you don't go overboard with a high-end card, you should not need to get a bigger PSU to support it.

 

That said, I am a firm believer in supplying good, clean stable power to computer components. So investing in a decent supply is not a bad idea. I like EVGA and Seasonic "Gold" supplies but their Bronze are certainly reliable too.

[Bill M.]

You're a little late to the party. Peter has already replaced the PSU.

[Digerati]

Oops. Sorry. I thought I read through thoroughly - missed that. Thanks.

[peterr]

All the information is very helpful and I appreciate your taking the time - all of you, to help. Computers, like people, are very sophisticated,complicated entities with variable that may fluctuate from day to day. I am not a tech, obviously, but certainly admire your skill, all of you. That is why I am here.

I am sure others reading this thread will benefit from it also.

[Bill M.]

Thank you from all.

[peterr]

I wanted you to know I ran the dx which is F12 with a reboot with Dell and it found all ok except the dvd bay. I found a loose connection and knock on wood, it seems to have stabilized the machine.

I may be back with an amendment but for now....

[peterr]

I was advised to replace my PSU based upon readings from Speccy, so I did.

I used Speecy again with the new PSU (500 watts-my PC came with 450 watts)to get these readings and they appear to be the same.

I uploaded both Speecy and HWMonitor.

I am seeing what I believe to be low readings with the new PSU with Speecy and minimal readings with HWMonitor. Can you comment please?

 

P.S. Since the loose DVD cable was properly inserted, the PC is stable.

Edited April 11, 2016 by peterr

[Digerati]

I am seeing what I believe to be low readings with the new PSU. Can you comment?

It is highly unlikely your new PSU has voltages that far out too. I recommend you try HWiNFO64 via the link I provided above and verify. You could also boot into your BIOS Setup Menu and look under PC Health (or something similar). Not all BIOS Setup Menus show this information but many do. Or you can get one of those testers I mentioned earlier.

 

Note the only conclusive way to test a PSU is to have it done professionally using sophisticated test equipment like an oscilloscope or dedicated power supply analyzer as those are the only methods you can test the supply under a variety of loads, and also test for excessive ripple and other anomalies that affect computer stability. Those plug in testers I linked to above are good (I keep one in my travel bag for house calls) but not conclusive either because they don't test for ripple and present only a tiny load.

 

So the best way for "normal" users to verify a PSU is good is to swap in a known good one. So you doing so accomplished that.

 

I believe this is just a case where Speccy is not interpreting the sensors it is monitoring correctly - otherwise, I don't believe your computer would be working at all. To be sure, Speccy is one of my favorite programs too, but none of these software based programs are perfect all the time. I have found when they appear to be correct, they usually are. It is when the readings appear to be way off that they are often false. So it is best to verify (get a second opinion) with a 2nd HW monitor program.

 

P.S. Since the loose DVD cable was properly inserted, the PC is stable.

Perhaps it was that all along.

[peterr]

Per Dell>"The updated motherboards are being misread by all of those 3rd party software. We will release a new bios to take care of this. No ETA.

 

[broken External Image]:http://en.community.dell.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/communityserver-components-userfiles/00-00-08-59-39-Attached+Files/7563.Chris_2D00_M.jpg

 

Liaison for Desktops, Alienware, Monitors

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Thank you, Bill.

I likely never needed a PSU in the first place and the loose wire could have been the cause. With info from Dell, I will not use software programs to analyze the PSU.

I have a multi tester and I may see what the old one says. It was quieter, although this is hardly noticeable.

HWiNFO64 is the program I use for the 2nd reading.

Edited April 11, 2016 by peterr

[Digerati]

Well, when using a multimeter, for accurate readings, the PSU must be under a realistic load. So what I do is measure through one or more of the unused cables coming from the PSU while running the computer. This way, the PSU is still under load, and you don't have to mess with jumping pins with a paper clip to get the PSU to fire up.

[peterr]

I have tied 2 cables to the side probably for a floppy I don't have and an unknown.

Would I use the multi tester in those?

What readings would I expect to get - 12v + ....?

Would I touch the black probe of the tester to ground, like the case, and the red to any of the holes in the unused cable?

[Digerati]

Could be a floppy but they are not used that often anymore and many new power supplies don't support floppy disks without an adapter.

 

An ATX PSU is required to output +12VDC, +5VDC, and +3.3VDC with a tolerance of ±5 percent.

 

Here is a good guide with pin-outs. Note the SATA power connector has all 3 voltages in one connector and most supplies support several SATA drives. And the 4th, 5th, and 6th pin in from either end is ground. So if you stick your black (-) probe on one of those grounds, you cannot short anything out no matter where you put the red (+) probe.

[peterr]

Is the SATA power cable you refer to the 24 pin connector that is so hard to remove with the clip?

I saw it on the diagram but just want to be sure.

Once I locate the right cable your directions and diagram seem good.

I am a bit confused as you mention a loose or free cable yet the main power cable is the one I would think allows the pc to run.

I am not sure if I am disconnecting a cable or using a loose one.

Thank you

[allheart55 Cindy E]

The SATA cables will look like these, Peter.

 

[peterr]

The tied off cables may not have that many pins - 4th, 5th, 6th.. I have to check. I think then I should use those I tied ff as the ones I test regardless off the number of pins. Count in to find grond and then test the others. I also think the black is ground.

Soon asap. Thank you Cindy.

[allheart55 Cindy E]

Sorry, Peter. The pic's that I've uploaded are SATA data cables, not SATA power cables.

This is what you should be looking for....

 

[Digerati]

Is the SATA power cable you refer to the 24 pin connector that is so hard to remove with the clip?

The SATA "power" cable is the one Cindy noted with her 2nd reply. The 24 pin connector you referred is the main motherboard power connector. If you remove the 24-pin connector, you could not start the power supply without shorting two pins together using the paperclip trick, or a special adapter found with some power supplies, or one of those testers I linked to above. But none of those methods put a realistic load on the supply so it is best to keep that connected to the motherboard and measure a through a spare SATA power connector.

 

Now an FYI to throw another wrench in the mix, that only measures the rails that one SATA connector is tied too. It will tell you how tight to acceptable tolerance the PSU is keeping the voltages, but it does not test that all voltages are present on all the rails (IF a multi-rail PSU). But, if any were missing, it is not likely your computer would boot so not likely an issue. And most multi-meters don't test for ripple or other anomalies that can affect system stability either.

 

I am a bit confused as you mention a loose or free cable yet the main power cable is the one I would think allows the pc to run.

Most motherboards today need 2 cables from the PSU. The first is the main 24-pin cable (older boards used 20-pins). The other is called the 12V ATX cable. That is typically an 8-pin (often 2 x 4 pin) and that is used to supply extra power for power hungry CPUs.

 

But the computer needs other power cables too. Each drive needs a power connection. All the fans need power. Though some fans are powered through motherboard fan connectors, extra fans may need a power lead from the PSU. And finally, many powerful graphics cards require an addition one or even two extra power leads directly from the PSU.

[peterr]

@ Cindy - thanks for the recent picture - i will remember the 2 black with red and yellow as SATA power

 

@Bill - I am beginning to understand the functionality of the cables. I appreciate your taking the time to explain all of this. It will go in my learning folder for a time when i wish to proceed.