"The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'"

<none@none.not> wrote in message news:fc4bht$5eo$1@aioe.org...

> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>> Aside from the recent problem with the WGA server, a problem which was

>> sorted very quickly but didn't appear so because reports of failure came

>> in over the period of a few days, can you find figures showing that the

>> majority of Vista/XP users have been adversely affected by WPA/WGA? I

>> doubt it somehow because, in all probability, the majority of users are

>> not affected.

>>

>> I have had to use the WPA call on maybe four occasions in the course of

>> my work, all XP related, and have had to use it once for myself after a

>> new hard drive, freshly installed, failed after three days of use,

>> forcing a re-install onto another drive. How many times have you had to

>> use the service?

>

> Wait until you start using Vista, I think you'll have alot more problems

> with it.

>

>>

>> Did I see it as an affront to my honesty, or the honesty of my local

>> clients? Nope, just MS trying to protect themselves from the huge piracy

>> mess that was Win 'all versions up to and including 2000 Pro'.

>>

>> I will readily admit that people who once distributed one CD and one

>> product code across an entire school, campus or sub-division may well be

>> annoyed that their bid to gain friends has been curtailed, but the rule

>> has always been one product code on one computer, and we all knew/know

>> that.

>>

>> The pricing of Vista is a little steep,

>

> Try very steep!

>

 

Try $89 bucks USD. In other words, inexpensive.

 

Saucy

Saucy

 

I have been using Vista exclusively since November 17th, 2006 and have had

no problems with it.. I also have local clients running Vista, and they have

had no problems with it..

 

Vista pricing is higher than XP.. and we do not all live in the US..

 

 

"Saucy" <saucy538347334873772.sjhdf@net.net.net> wrote in message

news:uwTUVH$8HHA.4784@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> "The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'"

> <none@none.not> wrote in message news:fc4bht$5eo$1@aioe.org...

>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>>> Aside from the recent problem with the WGA server, a problem which was

>>> sorted very quickly but didn't appear so because reports of failure came

>>> in over the period of a few days, can you find figures showing that the

>>> majority of Vista/XP users have been adversely affected by WPA/WGA? I

>>> doubt it somehow because, in all probability, the majority of users are

>>> not affected.

>>>

>>> I have had to use the WPA call on maybe four occasions in the course of

>>> my work, all XP related, and have had to use it once for myself after a

>>> new hard drive, freshly installed, failed after three days of use,

>>> forcing a re-install onto another drive. How many times have you had to

>>> use the service?

>>

>> Wait until you start using Vista, I think you'll have alot more problems

>> with it.

>>

>>>

>>> Did I see it as an affront to my honesty, or the honesty of my local

>>> clients? Nope, just MS trying to protect themselves from the huge piracy

>>> mess that was Win 'all versions up to and including 2000 Pro'.

>>>

>>> I will readily admit that people who once distributed one CD and one

>>> product code across an entire school, campus or sub-division may well be

>>> annoyed that their bid to gain friends has been curtailed, but the rule

>>> has always been one product code on one computer, and we all knew/know

>>> that.

>>>

>>> The pricing of Vista is a little steep,

>>

>> Try very steep!

>>

>

> Try $89 bucks USD. In other words, inexpensive.

>

> Saucy

 

--

 

 

Mike Hall

MS MVP Windows Shell/User

http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

Saucy wrote:

> "The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'"

> <none@none.not> wrote in message news:fc4bht$5eo$1@aioe.org...

>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>>> Aside from the recent problem with the WGA server, a problem which

>>> was sorted very quickly but didn't appear so because reports of

>>> failure came in over the period of a few days, can you find figures

>>> showing that the majority of Vista/XP users have been adversely

>>> affected by WPA/WGA? I doubt it somehow because, in all probability,

>>> the majority of users are not affected.

>>>

>>> I have had to use the WPA call on maybe four occasions in the course

>>> of my work, all XP related, and have had to use it once for myself

>>> after a new hard drive, freshly installed, failed after three days of

>>> use, forcing a re-install onto another drive. How many times have you

>>> had to use the service?

>>

>> Wait until you start using Vista, I think you'll have alot more

>> problems with it.

>>

>>>

>>> Did I see it as an affront to my honesty, or the honesty of my local

>>> clients? Nope, just MS trying to protect themselves from the huge

>>> piracy mess that was Win 'all versions up to and including 2000 Pro'.

>>>

>>> I will readily admit that people who once distributed one CD and one

>>> product code across an entire school, campus or sub-division may well

>>> be annoyed that their bid to gain friends has been curtailed, but the

>>> rule has always been one product code on one computer, and we all

>>> knew/know that.

>>>

>>> The pricing of Vista is a little steep,

>>

>> Try very steep!

>>

>

> Try $89 bucks USD. In other words, inexpensive.

>

> Saucy

 

Yah, for vista basic I'm sure.

 

--

Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:

http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

 

"Fair use is not merely a nice concept--it is a federal law based on

free speech rights under the First Amendment and is a cornerstone of the

creativity and innovation that is a hallmark of this country. Consumer

rights in the digital age are not frivolous."

- Maura Corbett

"Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message

news:%23UWRgm$8HHA.5160@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> Saucy

>

> I have been using Vista exclusively since November 17th, 2006 and have had

> no problems with it.. I also have local clients running Vista, and they

> have had no problems with it..

>

> Vista pricing is higher than XP.. and we do not all live in the US..

>

>

> "Saucy" <saucy538347334873772.sjhdf@net.net.net> wrote in message

> news:uwTUVH$8HHA.4784@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>> "The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'"

>> <none@none.not> wrote in message news:fc4bht$5eo$1@aioe.org...

>>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>>>> Aside from the recent problem with the WGA server, a problem which was

>>>> sorted very quickly but didn't appear so because reports of failure

>>>> came in over the period of a few days, can you find figures showing

>>>> that the majority of Vista/XP users have been adversely affected by

>>>> WPA/WGA? I doubt it somehow because, in all probability, the majority

>>>> of users are not affected.

>>>>

>>>> I have had to use the WPA call on maybe four occasions in the course of

>>>> my work, all XP related, and have had to use it once for myself after a

>>>> new hard drive, freshly installed, failed after three days of use,

>>>> forcing a re-install onto another drive. How many times have you had to

>>>> use the service?

>>>

>>> Wait until you start using Vista, I think you'll have alot more problems

>>> with it.

>>>

>>>>

>>>> Did I see it as an affront to my honesty, or the honesty of my local

>>>> clients? Nope, just MS trying to protect themselves from the huge

>>>> piracy mess that was Win 'all versions up to and including 2000 Pro'.

>>>>

>>>> I will readily admit that people who once distributed one CD and one

>>>> product code across an entire school, campus or sub-division may well

>>>> be annoyed that their bid to gain friends has been curtailed, but the

>>>> rule has always been one product code on one computer, and we all

>>>> knew/know that.

>>>>

>>>> The pricing of Vista is a little steep,

>>>

>>> Try very steep!

>>>

>>

>> Try $89 bucks USD. In other words, inexpensive.

>>

>> Saucy

>

> --

>

>

> Mike Hall

> MS MVP Windows Shell/User

> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

>

>

>

 

 

Mr. Hall:

 

Vista's price the same here as XP. $129.00 Cdn. .. the same price XP's been

since 2001. A bit higher than the price in the USA because the Cdn. dollar

has gained on the US by about 30% during that time.

 

Either way, US or Cdn or Aussie or Brit or Chinese, Vista is a good upgrade,

especially for parents.

 

Saucy

Their is no need for an explanation.

Linux is the "60's Hippy" of today.

Linux users believe they are some sort of counter culture revolutionaries.

They are gonna "change the world", but being too fat and lazy to march on

Washington(or Redmond), they post anti Microsoft spam all over NG's.

 

Like Aristotle used to say...No one gives a rats arse what OS you use.

 

"Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message

news:B9E776E1-B5F3-49F8-84FD-FDF1DF393E8E@microsoft.com...

> "Gregory Shearman" <ZekeGregory@netscape.net> wrote in message

> news:1616666.b6vf69phXH@netscape.net...

>> Sven Geier wrote:

>>

>>> dont.pullout@yahoo.com wrote:

>>>

>>>> Linux is free.

>>>> Windows is not.

>>>> Linux has been free for a long time while Microsoft stagnated with

>>>> Windows XP.

>>>> Linux is free.

>>> [...]

>>>>

>>>> Why?

>>>

>>> 1) You may be mistaken with the "windows costs money" line of reasoning.

>>> See right here: http://articles.tlug.jp/Windows_Is_Free

>>>

>>> 2) The wife just bought a laptop. It came with Windows on it. It just

>>> works. Why would she go to the trouble of erasing a perfectly

>>> functioning

>>> OS just to install another one? The apps that she likes (like OpenOffice

>>> or Firefox) can be downloaded for Windows just as well as for Linux.

>>> What

>>> motivation would she have to "switch"?

>>>

>>>

>>> Just thinking out loud here...

>>

>> What happens when she needs an upgrade of her hardware? Will Windows

>> allow

>> her to do it without invalidating her install?

>>

>

> An install is not invalidated. The activation status is changed.

> Reactivating fixes the problem.

>

>> How long will her system run without an re-install or even a reboot?

>

> I have two computers that have been running Vista since the RTM was

> released with no re-installs. I have had many XP and Server 2000/2003

> computers that went many years with no re-installs. I don't see any reason

> that Vista will be any different. In this day of everything and everyone

> going green I turn off my computers when not in use so I'm not sure how

> long Vista can go without a reboot. I have had servers that only need a

> reboot after an update that requires one. I had one Windows 2003 server

> that was not connected to the Internet that went well over a year without

> a reboot.

>

>>

>> Stability, security, freedom.

>>

>

> So far for me Vista has been both stable and secure. I don't know what

> freedom means in the context of an OS. Maybe you could explain this.

>

> --

> Kerry Brown

> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User

> http://www.vistahelp.ca

>

>

Kerry Brown wrote:

>

> So far for me Vista has been both stable and secure. I don't know what

> freedom means in the context of an OS. Maybe you could explain this.

>

Sure Kerry ... read the definition here ...

 

http://www.fsf.org/licensing/essays/free-sw.html

 

Cheers.

 

--

Remove Vista Activation Completely ...

http://tinyurl.com/2w8qqo

 

Do you use Linux? Everytime you "google", you're using Linux.

 

Coming Soon! Ubuntu 7.10 ... New Features:

http://lunapark6.com/ubuntu-gutsy-gibbon-710-new-features.html

Are you comparing Vista Basic and XP Home?

 

 

"Saucy" <saucy538347334873772.sjhdf@net.net.net> wrote in message

news:ei8LkLA9HHA.4784@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message

> news:%23UWRgm$8HHA.5160@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>> Saucy

>>

>> I have been using Vista exclusively since November 17th, 2006 and have

>> had no problems with it.. I also have local clients running Vista, and

>> they have had no problems with it..

>>

>> Vista pricing is higher than XP.. and we do not all live in the US..

>>

>>

>> "Saucy" <saucy538347334873772.sjhdf@net.net.net> wrote in message

>> news:uwTUVH$8HHA.4784@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>>> "The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'"

>>> <none@none.not> wrote in message news:fc4bht$5eo$1@aioe.org...

>>>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>>>>> Aside from the recent problem with the WGA server, a problem which was

>>>>> sorted very quickly but didn't appear so because reports of failure

>>>>> came in over the period of a few days, can you find figures showing

>>>>> that the majority of Vista/XP users have been adversely affected by

>>>>> WPA/WGA? I doubt it somehow because, in all probability, the majority

>>>>> of users are not affected.

>>>>>

>>>>> I have had to use the WPA call on maybe four occasions in the course

>>>>> of my work, all XP related, and have had to use it once for myself

>>>>> after a new hard drive, freshly installed, failed after three days of

>>>>> use, forcing a re-install onto another drive. How many times have you

>>>>> had to use the service?

>>>>

>>>> Wait until you start using Vista, I think you'll have alot more

>>>> problems with it.

>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Did I see it as an affront to my honesty, or the honesty of my local

>>>>> clients? Nope, just MS trying to protect themselves from the huge

>>>>> piracy mess that was Win 'all versions up to and including 2000 Pro'.

>>>>>

>>>>> I will readily admit that people who once distributed one CD and one

>>>>> product code across an entire school, campus or sub-division may well

>>>>> be annoyed that their bid to gain friends has been curtailed, but the

>>>>> rule has always been one product code on one computer, and we all

>>>>> knew/know that.

>>>>>

>>>>> The pricing of Vista is a little steep,

>>>>

>>>> Try very steep!

>>>>

>>>

>>> Try $89 bucks USD. In other words, inexpensive.

>>>

>>> Saucy

>>

>> --

>>

>>

>> Mike Hall

>> MS MVP Windows Shell/User

>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

>>

>>

>>

>

>

> Mr. Hall:

>

> Vista's price the same here as XP. $129.00 Cdn. .. the same price XP's

> been since 2001. A bit higher than the price in the USA because the Cdn.

> dollar has gained on the US by about 30% during that time.

>

> Either way, US or Cdn or Aussie or Brit or Chinese, Vista is a good

> upgrade, especially for parents.

>

> Saucy

 

--

 

 

Mike Hall

MS MVP Windows Shell/User

http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

dennis@home wrote:

>

> "The poster formerly known as the poster formerly known as Nina DiBoy"

> <nonee@none.not> wrote in message news:fc2fem$r4k$4@aioe.org...

>> dennis@home wrote:

>>>

>>> "Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message

>>> news:Oo7zLYj8HHA.1184@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>> The apple OS is much like Linux, Sun's Solaris is much like Linux,

>>>> so although they will not directly be about to support free Linux

>>>> there is a user base out there, which from a learning curve point of

>>>> view is not insignificant.

>>>

>>> The Apple OS is nothing like Linux.. its based on FreeBSD so there is

>>> no Linux in the Apple OS at all.

>>>

>>> Sun Solaris has a kernel similar to Linux.. not really surprising as

>>> Solaris is based on SVR5 and Linus copied its predecesor to make Linux.

>>> However the structure and resource management in Solaris is way ahead

>>> of Linux as is its security model, the kernel is compartmentalised as

>>> required by the DoD unlike Linux.

>>>

>>> BTW you can get Solaris free from

>>> http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/get.jsp if you want to see a

>>> Linux killer.

>>

>>

>> I tried solaris 10, and linux is much more user friendly I find.

>>

>

> If you already know Linux then it will be more user friendly.. you get

> that with all sorts of things including Macs, windows, calculators,

> cars, web sites, etc. The trouble is the users never look at it from the

> point of view of a new user so they never actually know if its user

> friendly they just assume, often wrongly, that it is. Unless the

> manufacturer is prepared to run trials with new users they can never be

> sure its user friendly which is where open source can fall down.. they

> get all their feedback from existing users and not from people that are

> newbies. So while I accept that you think Linux is user friendly I will

> reserve judgment on that until someone demonstrates that it actually is.

> Certainly when I went from SVR5 to Linux I didn't think it was user

> friendly as everything was different (ps produced different output and

> had different modifiers for instance).

 

 

I can't really comment on which is more friendly since I don't have

experience using Solaris to any great extent, but you raise a very

interesting point and that of course is why "Windows" appears friendly

to "most" people - which also makes one wonder why MS chose to swap some

things around in Vista apparently just to make it "Look Different".

 

One of the things of course is that all OSs have some new user brick

walls that you hit and can't seem to find an obvious way around, and for

someone used to Windows as an ordinary "User" Linux is probably quite

good at producing them.

The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'

wrote:

> Charlie Tame wrote:

>>

>> I am a Microsoft MVP not a "Linux Person" but

> <snip>

>

> Wow, I never would have guessed! For how long now? :)

>

 

Probably not much longer at the rate things are going, oh well. The fact

is that sometimes a big company needs realistic criticism, just as

governments do.

 

I started off maybe 4 years back helping some folks out with OE problems

and had some W2000 security info on a website but soon after getting the

award life changed somewhat with a new job etc and my spare time went

along with it :)

 

MS employs a lot of people and most of them don't deserve to lose their

jobs, but some at the top do, given the appalling decisions they

sometimes make. What annoys me is they can be both brilliant and

innovative yet seem to make the same mistakes over and over and then are

very slow to respond.

 

They need to be aware that the problems they have created with Vista,

DRM, WGA and WPA and shipping with a simple thing like the mail clients

unfinished and undecided, actively encourages, no, even forces people to

look elsewhere. As the Captain of the Titanic discovered not everything

moves out of the way just because it's a big ship.

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 20:43:18 -0500, Charlie Tame <charlie@tames.net>

wrote:

>The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'

>wrote:

>> Charlie Tame wrote:

>>>

>>> I am a Microsoft MVP not a "Linux Person" but

>> <snip>

>>

>> Wow, I never would have guessed! For how long now? :)

>>

>

>Probably not much longer at the rate things are going, oh well. The fact

>is that sometimes a big company needs realistic criticism, just as

>governments do.

 

Yes, but the fanboy club can't handle criticism no matter how

constructive it is. You are the FIRST MVP I've seen in this newsgroup

that's objective. The rest... well what's the point. Everyone knows

already.

>

>MS employs a lot of people and most of them don't deserve to lose their

>jobs, but some at the top do, given the appalling decisions they

>sometimes make.

 

True of nearly every major corporation. Most companies are overloaded

with dead wood. Rather than prune it out, they often get pushed higher

and higher up the corporate ladder when ironically they can start to

do real damage.

Adam Albright wrote:

> On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 20:43:18 -0500, Charlie Tame <charlie@tames.net>

> wrote:

>

>> The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'

>> wrote:

>>> Charlie Tame wrote:

>>>> I am a Microsoft MVP not a "Linux Person" but

>>> <snip>

>>>

>>> Wow, I never would have guessed! For how long now? :)

>>>

>> Probably not much longer at the rate things are going, oh well. The fact

>> is that sometimes a big company needs realistic criticism, just as

>> governments do.

>

> Yes, but the fanboy club can't handle criticism no matter how

> constructive it is. You are the FIRST MVP I've seen in this newsgroup

> that's objective. The rest... well what's the point. Everyone knows

> already.

>> MS employs a lot of people and most of them don't deserve to lose their

>> jobs, but some at the top do, given the appalling decisions they

>> sometimes make.

>

> True of nearly every major corporation. Most companies are overloaded

> with dead wood. Rather than prune it out, they often get pushed higher

> and higher up the corporate ladder when ironically they can start to

> do real damage.

>

 

 

Well an MSDN subscription comes with the MVP award and it has been very

interesting to see some of the stuff that MS have been working on

despite the fact that I don't know how to use it all, can't really do

much with the Japanese version of any of it and have not had that much

time to report back things that others have already beaten me to

discovering, I guess that's life, at least mine anyway, but in a way the

fact that they do so much is irritating when they can't seem to get some

of the basics right.

 

 

I mean OE was a virus trap for years, much of it simply because users

left it set at defaults and didn't know how to make them safer. It took

years for MS to start with much safer defaults and include a plain text

option, simple fixes and yet it took years and OE was undoubtedly the

biggest security problem on the internet simply because everybody,

including the clueless majority, had it running. Okay so it was a

freebie and MS made no profit, but hell, it never occurred to them what

it was costing everybody being insecure. I think the idea was that

people would buy Outlook, but most were NEVER going to buy that just for

simple emails.

 

I didn't have any Vista capable machines when the Beta was out, so my

first experience was the retail, and frankly it was disappointing

considering the time to develop and the alleged rewrite. I'm sure it

works well for many but heck, so does XP and probably better if the

clean up some of the accumulated detritus. From an average user's

perspective though it's not worth paying $300 for and from a business

perspective where most are doing WP and data entry what bloody use is

aero and ultimate extras like a poker game and animated desktop? 100

machines, $30,000 etc.And still the same typos in the WP and data entry.

 

Many will find out how to turn UAC off, many will find out how to run as

super user or whatever and WGA/WPA will NOT stop the serious pirate.

Actually here's how I see that issue. I get an ad for Vista and send off

for the pirate copy. Either it never arrives or it does and it's bloody

useless. Now, I either have to try and get MS to activate it at a price

(Which means I can use it but doesn't guarantee it has no malware

compiled in there someplace) so I lose but so does MS because now I got

me a legal but dangerous version. Or I might just curse the loss and

carry on using XP or whatever. OTOH since I lost my money I might just

try Linux, and since I am forced into that corner by the loss I might

just persist with it long enough to get to like it.

 

Nailing a few pirates is not enough, if WGA / WGA doesn't get the vast

majority of them (and it won't) than it's just a big negative.

 

Similarly with DRM. I have some stuff from years back, in the new Vista

machine no go, with XP most does go, with Linux, so far, it all goes.

It's all stuff I could have gotten off TV with a VCR anyway. What's with

paying more to get less?

 

So it is really not so much what is wrong with Vista as what is wrong at

MS during the latter stages of Vista development. I am quite sure a lot

of people will look at alternatives now.

Charlie Tame wrote:

> The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'

> wrote:

>> Charlie Tame wrote:

>>>

>>> I am a Microsoft MVP not a "Linux Person" but

>> <snip>

>>

>> Wow, I never would have guessed! For how long now? :)

>>

>

> Probably not much longer at the rate things are going, oh well. The fact

> is that sometimes a big company needs realistic criticism, just as

> governments do.

>

> I started off maybe 4 years back helping some folks out with OE problems

> and had some W2000 security info on a website but soon after getting the

> award life changed somewhat with a new job etc and my spare time went

> along with it :)

>

> MS employs a lot of people and most of them don't deserve to lose their

> jobs, but some at the top do, given the appalling decisions they

> sometimes make. What annoys me is they can be both brilliant and

> innovative yet seem to make the same mistakes over and over and then are

> very slow to respond.

>

> They need to be aware that the problems they have created with Vista,

> DRM, WGA and WPA and shipping with a simple thing like the mail clients

> unfinished and undecided, actively encourages, no, even forces people to

> look elsewhere. As the Captain of the Titanic discovered not everything

> moves out of the way just because it's a big ship.

 

Yes, I agree with Adam that you are a refreshing change to some of the

MVP shills here. Although I don't think of all or even most MVPs as shills.

 

--

Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:

http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

 

"Fair use is not merely a nice concept--it is a federal law based on

free speech rights under the First Amendment and is a cornerstone of the

creativity and innovation that is a hallmark of this country. Consumer

rights in the digital age are not frivolous."

- Maura Corbett

"NoStop" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:NFlFi.147789$fJ5.5413@pd7urf1no...

> Kerry Brown wrote:

>

>>

>> So far for me Vista has been both stable and secure. I don't know what

>> freedom means in the context of an OS. Maybe you could explain this.

>>

> Sure Kerry ... read the definition here ...

>

> http://www.fsf.org/licensing/essays/free-sw.html

>

 

 

Thanks, that is a reasonably good definition. I actually understand the

intent of the GPL a little better now. I was thinking of freedom in a

different context as in an OS forces you to use programs designed for it so

there isn't really any freedom in any OS. You are stuck with what works in

that OS. I like the definition in your link better.

 

--

Kerry Brown

Microsoft MVP - Shell/User

http://www.vistahelp.ca

The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'

wrote:

> Charlie Tame wrote:

>> The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'

>> wrote:

>>> Charlie Tame wrote:

>>>>

>>>> I am a Microsoft MVP not a "Linux Person" but

>>> <snip>

>>>

>>> Wow, I never would have guessed! For how long now? :)

>>>

>>

>> Probably not much longer at the rate things are going, oh well. The

>> fact is that sometimes a big company needs realistic criticism, just

>> as governments do.

>>

>> I started off maybe 4 years back helping some folks out with OE

>> problems and had some W2000 security info on a website but soon after

>> getting the award life changed somewhat with a new job etc and my

>> spare time went along with it :)

>>

>> MS employs a lot of people and most of them don't deserve to lose

>> their jobs, but some at the top do, given the appalling decisions they

>> sometimes make. What annoys me is they can be both brilliant and

>> innovative yet seem to make the same mistakes over and over and then

>> are very slow to respond.

>>

>> They need to be aware that the problems they have created with Vista,

>> DRM, WGA and WPA and shipping with a simple thing like the mail

>> clients unfinished and undecided, actively encourages, no, even forces

>> people to look elsewhere. As the Captain of the Titanic discovered not

>> everything moves out of the way just because it's a big ship.

>

> Yes, I agree with Adam that you are a refreshing change to some of the

> MVP shills here. Although I don't think of all or even most MVPs as

> shills.

>

 

 

I try to say what I see basically, and I agree that it is far from most

MVPs, which is why I don't take offense, but when you see what goes on

you have to laugh at it.

 

I don't know Vista as well as I should because I wasn't able to be in on

the Beta and hence have not used it as much as some, however some of the

flaws kinda hit you right in the face. There are some Linux and Multi OS

users here who give far more useful advice than the shills, who

basically think advice consists of slamming some other OS or redirecting

posters (often sarcastically) to the "Right" newsgroup. If they want to

support Microsoft and / or the users of MS products that's a piss poor

way to go about it, especially as some new folks are nervous about

asking and don't want to make themselves look like fools. Regrettably I

think some come here for the pleasure of making others look foolish, you

already know who I mean :)

 

MS can look after themselves, I look to getting the best value for the

users, I am one remember ???

 

That is not anti Microsoft or anti anything, it's capitalism more than

anything else.

 

The thing is that ever the most modern car or washing machine or

anything else will eventually wear out and need to be replaced. That is

somewhat true of computer hardware but less frequent unless some new

innovation that's essential comes along. It is even less true of

software because that never "Wears out" per se, only when something else

new and essential makes it redundant.

 

Therefore a company like Microsoft MUST generate innovation and demand

for new things, new ideas. IMHO Linux is catching up fast with stuff

that's historically been awkward - drivers and stuff I mean. If a big

developer like Valve decided to port to Linux then MS would have a big

market to lose. Maybe games are trivial, but a lot of businesses don't

want employees wasting time browsing and so a server and some thin

client terminals is becoming a way to avoid that. The "PC" boom in

business may just be on it's way back down, and how many want a home PC

for business, no they want it for recreation. This means that the price

of an OS will come into it more. With the growing numbers of Linux users

willing to help out a bit and Linux getting easier and easier to use,

and already professional competition from Apple alienating the users who

got Windows on the cheap originally may be a very bad idea. If people

"Stole" Windows the same people are going to be reluctant to pay too

much for it now, and if they can get the same from Linux quite easily

they may as well stay legal, no?

 

In that regard the people spouting endless praise instead of balanced

concern aren't really helping :)

 

If MS feel that WGA / WPA and DRM - and making users aware that they

depend on some server someplace is their best course then fine, they are

free to go their own way - but in the same way so am I and so is

everybody else.

 

I don't steal their software although I'm sure we have all accidentally

broken some EULA somewhere along the road to where we are, but I get

accused of it along with the rest, and I see the real thieves still

doing it. Were these measures having an impact in the right way I would

accept some inconvenience but I don't see where they are having any

impact at all on the real problem.

 

Give me some good reason not to go for a system that as yet has none of

these nuisances - and as you can see nobody here has actually given that

reason yet. That's not anti MS or anti anything, it is no more than

asking a car manufacturer why his model is better than a rival's.

"NoStop" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:NFlFi.147789$fJ5.5413@pd7urf1no...

> Kerry Brown wrote:

>

>>

>> So far for me Vista has been both stable and secure. I don't know what

>> freedom means in the context of an OS. Maybe you could explain this.

>>

> Sure Kerry ... read the definition here ...

>

> http://www.fsf.org/licensing/essays/free-sw.html

>

> Cheers.

 

Its a shame it fails on freedom 0.

You should not be allowed to use it for anything you like and indeed are

not.

You try using free software for terrorism and see how free to use it you

are.

"Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message

news:O5ZD7JB9HHA.4420@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> I can't really comment on which is more friendly since I don't have

> experience using Solaris to any great extent, but you raise a very

> interesting point and that of course is why "Windows" appears friendly to

> "most" people - which also makes one wonder why MS chose to swap some

> things around in Vista apparently just to make it "Look Different".

>

> One of the things of course is that all OSs have some new user brick walls

> that you hit and can't seem to find an obvious way around, and for someone

> used to Windows as an ordinary "User" Linux is probably quite good at

> producing them.

>

 

Linux is full of weird things unless you already know it.

I find it hard to set network keys in Ubuntu.. So hard that I gave up with

the live CD and installed it and its not straight forward then.

XP and Vista just pop up and say "there is a network here would you like to

connect and BTW what's the key I need?".

 

Linux still has a long way to go before it will be installable and useable

by most people despite what Linux advocates say.

You should also bear in mind that the Linux advocates have no idea how hard

Linux is as they already know how to do stuff that they expect newbies to

do. If you put them in a similar situation and give them Vista they complain

like hell just because its different and they can't be bothered to learn so

why do they expect users to learn Linux?

M$ are starting to find out just how bad users can be with all the

complaints about something as simple as UAC.. its so simple a five year old

could understand and use it.. however most of the users aren't five. When

the people that put Linux distros together actually realize that the

learning curve is too steep they might produce a better product.. but given

past experience I expect they will concentrate on more fancy features to

"blow away" windows as that is more interesting than making stuff easy to

use even for the half of the population below average intelligence. If they

were being paid then someone would be able to tell them what to do first but

that's one of the problems with open source software.. no one can make a

contributor do something they don't want to.

I have installed Vista on more than 250 computers since last November. I

have had little - to no - trouble with these computers after the installs,

at least none that my customers have bought to my attention. I typically do

not see a customer for 6-10 months after installing an operating system (any

operating system). Vista has been no exception.

 

I have turned DOWN installing Vista on far more computers than I have

installed upon. Why? Because of what would have been hardware

incompatibilities or incompatibilities with software that customers wanted

to run.

 

In repairing computers I have found (over the past 15 years - and this

includes computers with Vista installed) that 75% of all problems are user

induced - no matter what operating system is being used by the customer at

the time.

 

About 20% of the problems I find are hardware incompatibilities. These

appear after I have turned over the computer to the customer subsequent to a

new build or a repair. They install hardware without doing any research at

all.

 

4% of the problems are due to software incompatibilities, again - software

installed "after" I turn over a computer to a customer.

 

1% of the problems are actually due to the operating system (any operating

system). Operating systems, for the most part, are quite stable and

functional at the time of release (Windows ME excepted).

 

So, I am NOT going to say that Vista is flawless. I *AM* going to state what

my experience has been.

 

Other people may have problems. I help as I can. But I am ***NOT*** going to

beat the drum for those with problems, given the above percentages that my

years of records prove out to me.

 

The odds are just too great that they have caused their own problem!

 

 

--

 

 

Regards,

 

Richard Urban

Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User

(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

 

 

"Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message

news:exd7CVD9HHA.1484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'

> wrote:

>> Charlie Tame wrote:

>>> The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'

>>> wrote:

>>>> Charlie Tame wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>> I am a Microsoft MVP not a "Linux Person" but

>>>> <snip>

>>>>

>>>> Wow, I never would have guessed! For how long now? :)

>>>>

>>>

>>> Probably not much longer at the rate things are going, oh well. The fact

>>> is that sometimes a big company needs realistic criticism, just as

>>> governments do.

>>>

>>> I started off maybe 4 years back helping some folks out with OE problems

>>> and had some W2000 security info on a website but soon after getting the

>>> award life changed somewhat with a new job etc and my spare time went

>>> along with it :)

>>>

>>> MS employs a lot of people and most of them don't deserve to lose their

>>> jobs, but some at the top do, given the appalling decisions they

>>> sometimes make. What annoys me is they can be both brilliant and

>>> innovative yet seem to make the same mistakes over and over and then are

>>> very slow to respond.

>>>

>>> They need to be aware that the problems they have created with Vista,

>>> DRM, WGA and WPA and shipping with a simple thing like the mail clients

>>> unfinished and undecided, actively encourages, no, even forces people to

>>> look elsewhere. As the Captain of the Titanic discovered not everything

>>> moves out of the way just because it's a big ship.

>>

>> Yes, I agree with Adam that you are a refreshing change to some of the

>> MVP shills here. Although I don't think of all or even most MVPs as

>> shills.

>>

>

>

> I try to say what I see basically, and I agree that it is far from most

> MVPs, which is why I don't take offense, but when you see what goes on you

> have to laugh at it.

>

> I don't know Vista as well as I should because I wasn't able to be in on

> the Beta and hence have not used it as much as some, however some of the

> flaws kinda hit you right in the face. There are some Linux and Multi OS

> users here who give far more useful advice than the shills, who basically

> think advice consists of slamming some other OS or redirecting posters

> (often sarcastically) to the "Right" newsgroup. If they want to support

> Microsoft and / or the users of MS products that's a piss poor way to go

> about it, especially as some new folks are nervous about asking and don't

> want to make themselves look like fools. Regrettably I think some come

> here for the pleasure of making others look foolish, you already know who

> I mean :)

>

> MS can look after themselves, I look to getting the best value for the

> users, I am one remember ???

>

> That is not anti Microsoft or anti anything, it's capitalism more than

> anything else.

>

> The thing is that ever the most modern car or washing machine or anything

> else will eventually wear out and need to be replaced. That is somewhat

> true of computer hardware but less frequent unless some new innovation

> that's essential comes along. It is even less true of software because

> that never "Wears out" per se, only when something else new and essential

> makes it redundant.

>

> Therefore a company like Microsoft MUST generate innovation and demand for

> new things, new ideas. IMHO Linux is catching up fast with stuff that's

> historically been awkward - drivers and stuff I mean. If a big developer

> like Valve decided to port to Linux then MS would have a big market to

> lose. Maybe games are trivial, but a lot of businesses don't want

> employees wasting time browsing and so a server and some thin client

> terminals is becoming a way to avoid that. The "PC" boom in business may

> just be on it's way back down, and how many want a home PC for business,

> no they want it for recreation. This means that the price of an OS will

> come into it more. With the growing numbers of Linux users willing to help

> out a bit and Linux getting easier and easier to use, and already

> professional competition from Apple alienating the users who got Windows

> on the cheap originally may be a very bad idea. If people "Stole" Windows

> the same people are going to be reluctant to pay too much for it now, and

> if they can get the same from Linux quite easily they may as well stay

> legal, no?

>

> In that regard the people spouting endless praise instead of balanced

> concern aren't really helping :)

>

> If MS feel that WGA / WPA and DRM - and making users aware that they

> depend on some server someplace is their best course then fine, they are

> free to go their own way - but in the same way so am I and so is everybody

> else.

>

> I don't steal their software although I'm sure we have all accidentally

> broken some EULA somewhere along the road to where we are, but I get

> accused of it along with the rest, and I see the real thieves still doing

> it. Were these measures having an impact in the right way I would accept

> some inconvenience but I don't see where they are having any impact at all

> on the real problem.

>

> Give me some good reason not to go for a system that as yet has none of

> these nuisances - and as you can see nobody here has actually given that

> reason yet. That's not anti MS or anti anything, it is no more than asking

> a car manufacturer why his model is better than a rival's.

"Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message

news:%23eGp1RC9HHA.396@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> I mean OE was a virus trap for years, much of it simply because users left

> it set at defaults and didn't know how to make them safer. It took years

> for MS to start with much safer defaults and include a plain text option,

> simple fixes and yet it took years and OE was undoubtedly the biggest

> security problem on the internet simply because everybody, including the

> clueless majority, had it running. Okay so it was a freebie and MS made no

> profit, but hell, it never occurred to them what it was costing everybody

> being insecure. I think the idea was that people would buy Outlook, but

> most were NEVER going to buy that just for simple emails.

 

Look at sendmail on Linux, FreeBSD, Solaris, etc. it was full of worm holes

and other security problems for years before someone finally fixed it by

dumping it and using postfix.

However there are still machines out there running the versions with the

holes in even now.

Hell they don't even need to pay as postfix is free and a lot easier to use

than writing aload of $%^<>"£$%^ to a config file to rewrite headers and

stuff, but they still have cr@p sendmail running.

>

> I didn't have any Vista capable machines when the Beta was out, so my

> first experience was the retail, and frankly it was disappointing

> considering the time to develop and the alleged rewrite. I'm sure it works

> well for many but heck, so does XP and probably better if the clean up

> some of the accumulated detritus. From an average user's perspective

> though it's not worth paying $300 for and from a business perspective

> where most are doing WP and data entry what bloody use is aero and

> ultimate extras like a poker game and animated desktop? 100 machines,

> $30,000 etc.And still the same typos in the WP and data entry.

>

> Many will find out how to turn UAC off, many will find out how to run as

> super user or whatever and WGA/WPA will NOT stop the serious pirate.

 

The same users would get pi$$ed off by having to enter their password on

Ubuntu everytime they wanted to do an admin action too.. so they would

switch to another distro and run as root all the time.

> Actually here's how I see that issue. I get an ad for Vista and send off

> for the pirate copy. Either it never arrives or it does and it's bloody

> useless. Now, I either have to try and get MS to activate it at a price

> (Which means I can use it but doesn't guarantee it has no malware compiled

> in there someplace) so I lose but so does MS because now I got me a legal

> but dangerous version. Or I might just curse the loss and carry on using

> XP or whatever. OTOH since I lost my money I might just try Linux, and

> since I am forced into that corner by the loss I might just persist with

> it long enough to get to like it.

 

If you buy a pirate copy unknowingly and co-operate with M$ they send you a

free key and installation media if the one you have is no good.

> Nailing a few pirates is not enough, if WGA / WGA doesn't get the vast

> majority of them (and it won't) than it's just a big negative.

>

> Similarly with DRM. I have some stuff from years back, in the new Vista

> machine no go, with XP most does go, with Linux, so far, it all goes. It's

> all stuff I could have gotten off TV with a VCR anyway. What's with paying

> more to get less?

 

I find that WMP11 plays the stuff without copyright encoded in it without

any trouble.

BTW it is illegal to bypass the DRM if its in the files so, if you do, you

are making your Linux illegal in many countries.

> So it is really not so much what is wrong with Vista as what is wrong at

> MS during the latter stages of Vista development. I am quite sure a lot of

> people will look at alternatives now.

 

There are quite a lot of people that will be put off Linux by the inclusion

of software to bypass legal things.

There should be a warning and an option not to install the stuff that may

make the user a criminal but there isn't in any distro I have seen.

"Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message

news:um5LGBB9HHA.4784@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> Are you comparing Vista Basic and XP Home?

>

>

> "Saucy" <saucy538347334873772.sjhdf@net.net.net> wrote in message

> news:ei8LkLA9HHA.4784@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message

>> news:%23UWRgm$8HHA.5160@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>>> Saucy

>>>

>>> I have been using Vista exclusively since November 17th, 2006 and have

>>> had no problems with it.. I also have local clients running Vista, and

>>> they have had no problems with it..

>>>

>>> Vista pricing is higher than XP.. and we do not all live in the US..

>>>

>>>

>>> "Saucy" <saucy538347334873772.sjhdf@net.net.net> wrote in message

>>> news:uwTUVH$8HHA.4784@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>>>> "The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina

>>>> DiBoy'" <none@none.not> wrote in message news:fc4bht$5eo$1@aioe.org...

>>>>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>>>>>> Aside from the recent problem with the WGA server, a problem which

>>>>>> was sorted very quickly but didn't appear so because reports of

>>>>>> failure came in over the period of a few days, can you find figures

>>>>>> showing that the majority of Vista/XP users have been adversely

>>>>>> affected by WPA/WGA? I doubt it somehow because, in all probability,

>>>>>> the majority of users are not affected.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I have had to use the WPA call on maybe four occasions in the course

>>>>>> of my work, all XP related, and have had to use it once for myself

>>>>>> after a new hard drive, freshly installed, failed after three days of

>>>>>> use, forcing a re-install onto another drive. How many times have you

>>>>>> had to use the service?

>>>>>

>>>>> Wait until you start using Vista, I think you'll have alot more

>>>>> problems with it.

>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Did I see it as an affront to my honesty, or the honesty of my local

>>>>>> clients? Nope, just MS trying to protect themselves from the huge

>>>>>> piracy mess that was Win 'all versions up to and including 2000 Pro'.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I will readily admit that people who once distributed one CD and one

>>>>>> product code across an entire school, campus or sub-division may well

>>>>>> be annoyed that their bid to gain friends has been curtailed, but the

>>>>>> rule has always been one product code on one computer, and we all

>>>>>> knew/know that.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> The pricing of Vista is a little steep,

>>>>>

>>>>> Try very steep!

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Try $89 bucks USD. In other words, inexpensive.

>>>>

>>>> Saucy

>>>

>>> --

>>>

>>>

>>> Mike Hall

>>> MS MVP Windows Shell/User

>>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>

>>

>> Mr. Hall:

>>

>> Vista's price the same here as XP. $129.00 Cdn. .. the same price XP's

>> been since 2001. A bit higher than the price in the USA because the Cdn.

>> dollar has gained on the US by about 30% during that time.

>>

>> Either way, US or Cdn or Aussie or Brit or Chinese, Vista is a good

>> upgrade, especially for parents.

>>

>> Saucy

>

> --

>

>

> Mike Hall

> MS MVP Windows Shell/User

> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

>

>

>

 

 

Yes, of course - Vista Home Basic. They are roughly comparable. Vista's

version of Home comes with Parental Controls and makes for a smart upgrade

to the family computer and it's just $89 USD or $118-129 Cdn. - the same

price as the XP Home upgrade was. I'm not going to discuss get into

differences between HB and HP, my brother has HB - loves it - and it works

well and he runs top notch sound editing software on it.

 

Saucy

And have you looked at prices for other Vista flavours, bearing in mind that

many will like the idea of finally getting Media Centre, and may well have

slightly higher aspirations than your brother?

 

 

"Saucy" <saucy538347334873772.sjhdf@net.net.net> wrote in message

news:OZieujG9HHA.1164@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message

> news:um5LGBB9HHA.4784@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>> Are you comparing Vista Basic and XP Home?

>>

>>

>> "Saucy" <saucy538347334873772.sjhdf@net.net.net> wrote in message

>> news:ei8LkLA9HHA.4784@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>>> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message

>>> news:%23UWRgm$8HHA.5160@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>>>> Saucy

>>>>

>>>> I have been using Vista exclusively since November 17th, 2006 and have

>>>> had no problems with it.. I also have local clients running Vista, and

>>>> they have had no problems with it..

>>>>

>>>> Vista pricing is higher than XP.. and we do not all live in the US..

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> "Saucy" <saucy538347334873772.sjhdf@net.net.net> wrote in message

>>>> news:uwTUVH$8HHA.4784@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>>>>> "The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina

>>>>> DiBoy'" <none@none.not> wrote in message news:fc4bht$5eo$1@aioe.org...

>>>>>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

>>>>>>> Aside from the recent problem with the WGA server, a problem which

>>>>>>> was sorted very quickly but didn't appear so because reports of

>>>>>>> failure came in over the period of a few days, can you find figures

>>>>>>> showing that the majority of Vista/XP users have been adversely

>>>>>>> affected by WPA/WGA? I doubt it somehow because, in all probability,

>>>>>>> the majority of users are not affected.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I have had to use the WPA call on maybe four occasions in the course

>>>>>>> of my work, all XP related, and have had to use it once for myself

>>>>>>> after a new hard drive, freshly installed, failed after three days

>>>>>>> of use, forcing a re-install onto another drive. How many times have

>>>>>>> you had to use the service?

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Wait until you start using Vista, I think you'll have alot more

>>>>>> problems with it.

>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Did I see it as an affront to my honesty, or the honesty of my local

>>>>>>> clients? Nope, just MS trying to protect themselves from the huge

>>>>>>> piracy mess that was Win 'all versions up to and including 2000

>>>>>>> Pro'.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I will readily admit that people who once distributed one CD and one

>>>>>>> product code across an entire school, campus or sub-division may

>>>>>>> well be annoyed that their bid to gain friends has been curtailed,

>>>>>>> but the rule has always been one product code on one computer, and

>>>>>>> we all knew/know that.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> The pricing of Vista is a little steep,

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Try very steep!

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Try $89 bucks USD. In other words, inexpensive.

>>>>>

>>>>> Saucy

>>>>

>>>> --

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Mike Hall

>>>> MS MVP Windows Shell/User

>>>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Mr. Hall:

>>>

>>> Vista's price the same here as XP. $129.00 Cdn. .. the same price XP's

>>> been since 2001. A bit higher than the price in the USA because the Cdn.

>>> dollar has gained on the US by about 30% during that time.

>>>

>>> Either way, US or Cdn or Aussie or Brit or Chinese, Vista is a good

>>> upgrade, especially for parents.

>>>

>>> Saucy

>>

>> --

>>

>>

>> Mike Hall

>> MS MVP Windows Shell/User

>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

>>

>>

>>

>

>

> Yes, of course - Vista Home Basic. They are roughly comparable. Vista's

> version of Home comes with Parental Controls and makes for a smart upgrade

> to the family computer and it's just $89 USD or $118-129 Cdn. - the same

> price as the XP Home upgrade was. I'm not going to discuss get into

> differences between HB and HP, my brother has HB - loves it - and it works

> well and he runs top notch sound editing software on it.

>

> Saucy

 

--

 

 

Mike Hall

MS MVP Windows Shell/User

http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 05:35:37 -0400, "Richard Urban"

<richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I have installed Vista on more than 250 computers since last November.

>So, I am NOT going to say that Vista is flawless. I *AM* going to state what

>my experience has been.

>

>Other people may have problems. I help as I can. But I am ***NOT*** going to

>beat the drum for those with problems, given the above percentages that my

>years of records prove out to me.

 

Most of typical MVP BS deleted.

>

>The odds are just too great that they have caused their own problem!

 

Thanks for confirming you're nothing but a screwdriver jockey who

thinks he's a computer "expert" because he figured out how to push an

idiot proof connector into a motherboard, screw down a hard drive and

plug in the power and data cables and similar no brainer tasks which

is all that's required to assemble a PC. Oh excuse me, me bad, these

kind of menial tasks is what you guys call "building" a computer. It's

really called ASSEMBLING and is on a par with somebody at one of

Amazon's warehouses considering themselves a technician when they put

your ordered books in a cardboard box, fill up the spaces with

shipping peanuts and seal up the carton with shipping tape.

 

As far as "installing" Vista, if you can manage to open the disk drive

door (pushing a button isn't too hard for most people), place the disc

in the caddy, shut the disc drive door and follow on screen prompts,

oh wow, I guess you're now qualified as a "software engineer"

according to the loony standards accepted by some in this newsgroup

for "expert" ranking.

 

And you guys wonder why I laugh at you? Please, be serious.

 

ROTFLMAO!

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 22:34:51 -0500, The poster formerly known as 'The

Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy' <none@none.not> wrote:

>Charlie Tame wrote:

>> The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'

>> wrote:

>>> Charlie Tame wrote:

>>>>

>>>> I am a Microsoft MVP not a "Linux Person" but

>>> <snip>

>>>

>>> Wow, I never would have guessed! For how long now? :)

>>>

>>

>> Probably not much longer at the rate things are going, oh well. The fact

>> is that sometimes a big company needs realistic criticism, just as

>> governments do.

>>

>> I started off maybe 4 years back helping some folks out with OE problems

>> and had some W2000 security info on a website but soon after getting the

>> award life changed somewhat with a new job etc and my spare time went

>> along with it :)

>>

>> MS employs a lot of people and most of them don't deserve to lose their

>> jobs, but some at the top do, given the appalling decisions they

>> sometimes make. What annoys me is they can be both brilliant and

>> innovative yet seem to make the same mistakes over and over and then are

>> very slow to respond.

>>

>> They need to be aware that the problems they have created with Vista,

>> DRM, WGA and WPA and shipping with a simple thing like the mail clients

>> unfinished and undecided, actively encourages, no, even forces people to

>> look elsewhere. As the Captain of the Titanic discovered not everything

>> moves out of the way just because it's a big ship.

>

>Yes, I agree with Adam that you are a refreshing change to some of the

>MVP shills here. Although I don't think of all or even most MVPs as shills.

 

I wouldn't pick the word shill, but I guess one could make a case for

it applying to a few of the MVPs here. I see the typical MVP as

blinded and seeing their purpose (as misguided as it is) as defending

Microsoft which I find ludicrous. Hint: That isn't what the MVP

program was created for!

 

The intent of the MVP program as it was originally constituted was to

have a small group of people that earned their stripes by showing they

had some knowledge and experience beyond that of typical users. These

guys were suppose to HELP people having problems.

 

Now, more often than not, the typical MVP, at least seen way too often

in this NG is boasting, bragging, pontificating, trying to act like

they're in change, scolding, lecturing and in general being magnets

and the cause for most of the noise seen here because like it or not,

most people see MVPs blindly defending Microsoft no matter how dumb a

policy or blunder they've made. Funny to be sure, but also sad to see

what once was a pretty good idea sink to the level it is now which is

more a negative.

"Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message

news:eT$0mbH9HHA.1484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> And have you looked at prices for other Vista flavours, bearing in mind

> that many will like the idea of finally getting Media Centre, and may well

> have slightly higher aspirations than your brother?

>

>

>

 

Sure, Vista is offered in a range of editions. About Vista Home Basic can be

had for $89 USD but here's typical pricing spread from CompUSA:

 

$199 USD for Business ed.

$ 99 USD for Home Basic ed.

$159 USD for Home Premium ed.

$259 USD for Ultimate ed.

 

Note though, customers already running Vista Basic or Vista Home Premium can

upgrade to Vista Ultimate ed. for $199 USD and $179 USD, respectively.

 

But with all that said and done, a family running XP Home can gain all the

benefits of running Vista for about $89 USD - including Parental Controls -

which makes for a very nice upgrade.

 

[(unoffical) Windows Vista Feature Comparison - Tom Porterfield MVP]

http://support.teloep.org/vistaver.htm

 

[Compare Vista Editions - Microsoft]

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/editions/choose.mspx?wt_svl=10033WHa1&mg_id=10033WHb1

 

[Can your PC run Vista? -Microsoft]

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/upgradeadvisor.mspx?wt_svl=10008WHa1&mg_id=10008WHb1

 

Saucy

Adam Albright wrote:

> On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 05:35:37 -0400, "Richard Urban"

> <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote:

>

>

>>I have installed Vista on more than 250 computers since last November.

>>So, I am NOT going to say that Vista is flawless. I *AM* going to state what

>>my experience has been.

>>

>>Other people may have problems. I help as I can. But I am ***NOT*** going to

>>beat the drum for those with problems, given the above percentages that my

>>years of records prove out to me.

>

>

> Most of typical MVP BS deleted.

>

>>The odds are just too great that they have caused their own problem!

>

>

> Thanks for confirming you're nothing but a screwdriver jockey who

> thinks he's a computer "expert" because he figured out how to push an

> idiot proof connector into a motherboard, screw down a hard drive and

> plug in the power and data cables and similar no brainer tasks which

> is all that's required to assemble a PC. Oh excuse me, me bad, these

> kind of menial tasks is what you guys call "building" a computer. It's

> really called ASSEMBLING and is on a par with somebody at one of

> Amazon's warehouses considering themselves a technician when they put

> your ordered books in a cardboard box, fill up the spaces with

> shipping peanuts and seal up the carton with shipping tape.

>

> As far as "installing" Vista, if you can manage to open the disk drive

> door (pushing a button isn't too hard for most people), place the disc

> in the caddy, shut the disc drive door and follow on screen prompts,

> oh wow, I guess you're now qualified as a "software engineer"

> according to the loony standards accepted by some in this newsgroup

> for "expert" ranking.

>

> And you guys wonder why I laugh at you? Please, be serious.

>

> ROTFLMAO!

>

hehehehe...well..mr computer expert...mr (according to you) genius...why

is it that you cannot, with all your "expertise", get one little, simple

in place (first clue?) upgrade install of Vista business to run correctly?

Well mr computer expert, mr genius...you constantly berate and belittle

those who can run Vista without problems and yet you, with all of your

self-proclaimed expertise can't.

Why is that, huh?

Frank

All in USD.. most of the civilized world outside of the 50 states pays quite

a bit more..

 

 

"Saucy" <saucy538347334873772.sjhdf@net.net.net> wrote in message

news:ezfHZBI9HHA.3900@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message

> news:eT$0mbH9HHA.1484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>> And have you looked at prices for other Vista flavours, bearing in mind

>> that many will like the idea of finally getting Media Centre, and may

>> well have slightly higher aspirations than your brother?

>>

>>

>>

>

> Sure, Vista is offered in a range of editions. About Vista Home Basic can

> be had for $89 USD but here's typical pricing spread from CompUSA:

>

> $199 USD for Business ed.

> $ 99 USD for Home Basic ed.

> $159 USD for Home Premium ed.

> $259 USD for Ultimate ed.

>

> Note though, customers already running Vista Basic or Vista Home Premium

> can upgrade to Vista Ultimate ed. for $199 USD and $179 USD, respectively.

>

> But with all that said and done, a family running XP Home can gain all the

> benefits of running Vista for about $89 USD - including Parental

> Controls - which makes for a very nice upgrade.

>

> [(unoffical) Windows Vista Feature Comparison - Tom Porterfield MVP]

> http://support.teloep.org/vistaver.htm

>

> [Compare Vista Editions - Microsoft]

> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/editions/choose.mspx?wt_svl=10033WHa1&mg_id=10033WHb1

>

> [Can your PC run Vista? -Microsoft]

> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/upgradeadvisor.mspx?wt_svl=10008WHa1&mg_id=10008WHb1

>

> Saucy

 

--

 

 

Mike Hall

MS MVP Windows Shell/User

http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/