Microsoft updates Windows without users&#039; consent

http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/19324

September 17, 200717 yr

Charlie Tame wrote:

> Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:

>> "despite old Jonesy using it in an attempt"

>> These little snips by you are becoming more common.

>> Your need to do so while selectively reading are more of a reflection

>> on you.

>>

>

> You're getting more pompous, so what?

>

> The fact is that your attempts to play down the seriousness of the

> world's leading supplier of operating systems leaving security concerns

> by choice in 90% of the country's computers is irresponsible. Fair

> enough, nothing serious happened "This time", but only weeks ago their

> sneaky software declared a lot of their "Flagship" products illegal,

> causing REAL loss of functionality BY DESIGN. What are Microsoft thinking?

>

> Maybe their action then was accidental, maybe the sneak updates are

> "Legal", but both of these are a serious blow to their claims of being

> the leaders in "Trustworthy Computing" from the user's point of view.

>

> You state that there is a "Workaround" for the update issue, and there

> is, but it's not stated clearly and not something the average user would

> think of, even a good IT Pro might miss it. So my question for MS is

> "What Workaround do we have to look for next, what else are you doing

> that we should know about?"

>

> Failure to deal with these matter by denial helps nobody, especially

> Microsoft if disillusioned users start voting with their feet.

Combine the stealth updates with OS by subscription, which MS is moving

towards with MS's patent- " for Privacy policy change notification,

which describes how to threaten users will the loss of their account,

access to web sites and services, and all of the content they provided

should they refuse to consent to changes in privacy policy to allow

personal information collected earlier with a promise of confidentiality

to be shared in the future with third parties."

Add all of these together and it doesn't smell good for the consumer.

caver1

Quote

September 17, 200717 yr

"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote in message

news:eGpmsZK%23HHA.1188@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> "...updates can be turned off which they cannot."

> But they can and you know it.

> Your conveniently ignoring that fact does nothing for your point.

> Turn off the service and it is done with the usual note it will need to be

> enabled before Windows Update can function.

>

I just spent a few hours searching microsoft.com for some documentation that

clearly shows that you need to disable both Windows Updates and BITS to make

sure you don't get any unexpected updates. I couldn't find any. If you read

between the lines and read several articles spread across technet and msdn

and the knowledge base you may come to this conclusion. Can you or anyone

point me to a public document that clearly shows how to disable all updates?

This is at best incompetence and at worst deliberate misdirection. For me it

has broken the trust I had with Microsoft updates. I no longer trust them to

do what I tell them to as I now know they will ignore that if they decide it

is in my best interest. I want to decide what is best for me. I also want to

know that when I check a box that says to turn something off it is off.

--

Kerry Brown

Microsoft MVP - Shell/User

Quote

http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

September 17, 200717 yr

Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:

> "more pompous"

> Your need to insult instead of dealing with the issues reflects on your

> own character and not on those you need to insult.

>

> "even a good IT Pro might miss it"

> Then the IT Pro clearly is not.

>

> "Failure to deal with these matter by denial helps nobody"

> Your selective reading is getting old.

> Your inability or unwillingness to see that I have given the solution

> for users is solely your problem.

> You deal with it by insulting others and you call me "pompous".

>

> You need to read my posts again, possibly for the first time.

> Your assumptions and selectively reading do nothing to help the OP.

JJ don't confuse honesty on Charlie's part with insults.

--

Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:

"Fair use is not merely a nice concept--it is a federal law based on

free speech rights under the First Amendment and is a cornerstone of the

creativity and innovation that is a hallmark of this country. Consumer

rights in the digital age are not frivolous."

- Maura Corbett

Quote

September 17, 200717 yr

"NT Canuck" <optional_ntcanuck@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:eh3VogM%23HHA.6008@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> Charlie Tame wrote:

>

>> You state that there is a "Workaround" for the update issue, and there

>> is, but it's not stated clearly and not something the average user would

>> think of, even a good IT Pro might miss it. So my question for MS is

>> "What Workaround do we have to look for next, what else are you doing

>> that we should know about?"

>

> umm,

> Jupiter is an MVP not an MS spokesperson or employee afaik.

> Most likely MVP's are just as interested in this as you are.

>

Yes we are. FWIW Charlie doesn't have it in his sig but he doesn't hide the

fact that he is an MVP.

This issue is causing a lot of controversy amongst everyone including MVPs.

--

Kerry Brown

Microsoft MVP - Shell/User

Quote

September 17, 200717 yr

norm wrote:

> Frank wrote:

>

>> norm wrote:

>>

>>>

>>> You have no idea what I am, but you still remain a hypocrite.

>>>

>>> ---------------------------------------------------------

>>

>> Well norm, I don't think so.

>> If you calling me a hypocrite is the best you can come with, and

>> that's your best shot, sorry, but it is not near good enough.

>

> Good enough for what? You?

Not good enough to mean anything to anyone except you. It's only your

uneducated and unsubstantiated personal opinion. You speak only for

yourself, right?

>

>> And only coming up with a cut/paste dictionary definition doesn't make

>> me one nor does you calling me one make me one cause I'm not a

>> hypocrite by your's or anyone else's definition.

>

> Sure you are.

hahaha...sorry norm, but that's just not true. Your opinion is owned

only by you and it's totally meaningless especially to me, the person

you're trying to hang it on.

Try again

>

>> And just because you want it to doesn't mean it does.

>> Too bad!

>> Try harder.

>

> Don't need to.

>

Then you give up and concede that you're wrong, right?

Otherwise your argument just fell completely apart.

>> Frank

>>

>> Oh, and one other thing.

>> You have no idea who I am either!

>

> Sure I do. You are a hypocrite, by anyone's definition.

Wrong again. You're the only one pushing the definition...and without

any proof..other than you say so...so by "anyone's definition'...is

simply not true is it?

Try harder.

Frank

And you still have no idea who I am.

Quote

September 17, 200717 yr

Kerry Brown wrote:

> "NT Canuck" <optional_ntcanuck@hotmail.com> wrote in message

> news:eh3VogM%23HHA.6008@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>> Charlie Tame wrote:

>>

>>> You state that there is a "Workaround" for the update issue, and

>>> there is, but it's not stated clearly and not something the average

>>> user would think of, even a good IT Pro might miss it. So my question

>>> for MS is "What Workaround do we have to look for next, what else are

>>> you doing that we should know about?"

>>

>> umm,

>> Jupiter is an MVP not an MS spokesperson or employee afaik.

>> Most likely MVP's are just as interested in this as you are.

>>

>

> Yes we are. FWIW Charlie doesn't have it in his sig but he doesn't hide

> the fact that he is an MVP.

>

> This issue is causing a lot of controversy amongst everyone including MVPs.

>

You are 100% correct Kerry, I am concerned about the way the whole

industry is heading because on the whole I think Bill Gates and his

early team at MS brought advances to the world in general and deserve

respect for that. I am not accusing them of 100% honesty by the way,

just that they were in the right place at the right time and largely

made the right choices.

I think most of us would confess to having some "Loyalty" to Microsoft

despite some dubious decisions on their part in the past, but you hit

the nail on the head with the issue of Trust. If people lose faith in MS

being up front with details then it is a bad sign for the company, bad

news for the industry and definitely won't help the users. MS have

cornered the market and largely got what they wanted, it has to be

treated with the respect it deserves or they will lose.

Quote

September 17, 200717 yr

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 15:40:40 -0700, "Jupiter Jones [MVP]"

<jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote:

>"Certainly sounds like you don't consider it important."

>Your selective reading has led you to false assumptions before.

You known the Emmy Awards are on tonight. Too bad you don't qualify or

that they don't hand one out for pompous jerks. You would have run

away with it hands down.

Quote

September 17, 200717 yr

Kerry Brown wrote:

> "NT Canuck" <optional_ntcanuck@hotmail.com> wrote in message

> news:eh3VogM%23HHA.6008@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>> Charlie Tame wrote:

>>

>>> You state that there is a "Workaround" for the update issue, and

>>> there is, but it's not stated clearly and not something the average

>>> user would think of, even a good IT Pro might miss it. So my question

>>> for MS is "What Workaround do we have to look for next, what else are

>>> you doing that we should know about?"

>>

>> umm,

>> Jupiter is an MVP not an MS spokesperson or employee afaik.

>> Most likely MVP's are just as interested in this as you are.

>>

>

> Yes we are. FWIW Charlie doesn't have it in his sig but he doesn't hide

> the fact that he is an MVP.

>

> This issue is causing a lot of controversy amongst everyone including MVPs.

>

Oh BTW there is a simple reason it's not MVP in the sig. I am certainly

NOT an "Expert" with every aspect of computing and did not want to

appear to be an authority on something I'm not. I did help out with OE

and IE but have lacked the time to contribute properly for quite a while...

I think it is common to forget that a user who comes here may have just

clicked a link and never used a newsreader before, or the awful CDO

thing, and a lot probably feel a bit shy of asking questions. I don't

think "Didn't you read the manual before you installed it?" is a

terribly helpful reply :)

This group and MS Access (Because the group name implies "Public Access

to Microsoft") seem to be in a league of their own when it comes to

talking down to folks :)

If I'm wrong sometimes then I'm wrong, but I treat everyone the same be

it George W Bush or Bill Gates, nobody I ever met had a halo or IMHO

deserved one, including me :)

Quote

September 17, 200717 yr

"you are again suggesting that an IT"

Again I will suggest you read my post...possibly for the first time.

"you claim that it only comes from a mere handful"

You have now passed selective reading to inventing.

I never said any such thing.

"but you make it sound like you half dozen posts have reached"

I don't know how many times in the various threads and newsgroups.

I also do not know any more than you how many people have seen and will seen

the post.

But you are free to assume again.

"any of your pontificating"

Red your own posts as well.

"constantly edit others' statements to remove the context."

You have FALSELY made that claim before and I will tell you the same as I

have in the past.

Your ENTIRE post is quoted by me for clarity.

Your apparent inability to see is your own limitation.

Now, for a change, help people with problems instead of simply bashing

others with whom you disagree.

--

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

Windows Server System - Microsoft Update Services

"Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message

news:uMebWFM%23HHA.4180@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:

>> "more pompous"

>> Your need to insult instead of dealing with the issues reflects on your

>> own character and not on those you need to insult.

>>

>> "even a good IT Pro might miss it"

>> Then the IT Pro clearly is not.

>

> Nonsense, you are again suggesting that an IT pro has to treat MS with

> distrust in order to do his job properly...

>

>> "Failure to deal with these matter by denial helps nobody"

>> Your selective reading is getting old.

>> Your inability or unwillingness to see that I have given the solution for

>> users is solely your problem.

>> You deal with it by insulting others and you call me "pompous".

>

> 1 I was referring to MS denying that there's a serious issue here and so

> what if you have given a (Workaround not a solution) to a handful of

> people who post here? When it comes to criticism you claim that it only

> comes from a mere handful who visit these forums but you make it sound

> like you half dozen posts have reached more of the Windows User base.

>

>> You need to read my posts again, possibly for the first time.

>> Your assumptions and selectively reading do nothing to help the OP.

>

> Neither does any of your pontificating, and I don't know how you face

> yourself complaining about selective reading when you constantly edit

> others' statements to remove the context.

Quote

September 17, 200717 yr

No confusion.

The need to attack others instead of dealing with the issue is a

characteristic of those insecure with a need to prop their views...and it

fails.

--

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

Windows Server System - Microsoft Update Services

> http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

"The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'"

<none@none.not> wrote in message news:fckmqr$q6n$4@aioe.org...

> JJ don't confuse honesty on Charlie's part with insults.

>

> --

> Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:

>

> "Fair use is not merely a nice concept--it is a federal law based on free

> speech rights under the First Amendment and is a cornerstone of the

> creativity and innovation that is a hallmark of this country. Consumer

> rights in the digital age are not frivolous."

> - Maura Corbett

Quote

September 17, 200717 yr

NOTHING was removed.

Your ENTIRE post was quoted below.

Read the post for a change.

--

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

Windows Server System - Microsoft Update Services

"Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message

news:e7elUFM%23HHA.4180@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:

> If YOU had read what I wrote you would have seen that I clearly mentioned

> that their action may be legal, it probably is worded in that manner,

> however it remains deceptive to anyone reading the EULA without

> presupposing malicious intent. Once again you remove the context to make

> it look as if something different was said.

Quote

September 17, 200717 yr

Frank wrote:

> norm wrote:

>> Frank wrote:

>>

>>> norm wrote:

>>>

>>>>

>>>> You have no idea what I am, but you still remain a hypocrite.

>>>>

>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------

>>>

>>> Well norm, I don't think so.

>>> If you calling me a hypocrite is the best you can come with, and

>>> that's your best shot, sorry, but it is not near good enough.

>>

>> Good enough for what? You?

>

> Not good enough to mean anything to anyone except you. It's only your

> uneducated and unsubstantiated personal opinion. You speak only for

> yourself, right?

"It's only your uneducated and unsubstantiated personal opinion". As

opposed to what from your quarter? You can attempt to walk this around

in circles all you want. What is unsubstantiated? You stated (quite

strongly) that you believe in God. With that belief comes responsibility

for one's words and actions. Your words and actions belie such a belief.

You are a hypocrite by definition. The other possibility is that you do

not believe in God, even though you state that you do. In that case, you

are simply a liar.

>

>>

>>> And only coming up with a cut/paste dictionary definition doesn't

>>> make me one nor does you calling me one make me one cause I'm not a

>>> hypocrite by your's or anyone else's definition.

>>

>> Sure you are.

>

> hahaha...sorry norm, but that's just not true. Your opinion is owned

> only by you and it's totally meaningless especially to me, the person

> you're trying to hang it on.

> Try again

>>

>>> And just because you want it to doesn't mean it does.

>>> Too bad!

>>> Try harder.

>>

>> Don't need to.

>>

> Then you give up and concede that you're wrong, right?

> Otherwise your argument just fell completely apart.

>

>>> Frank

>>>

>>> Oh, and one other thing.

>>> You have no idea who I am either!

>>

>> Sure I do. You are a hypocrite, by anyone's definition.

>

> Wrong again. You're the only one pushing the definition...and without

> any proof..other than you say so...so by "anyone's definition'...is

> simply not true is it?

> Try harder.

> Frank

>

> And you still have no idea who I am.

You are correct. I have no idea who you are. I know what you are. A

hypocrite, and if not that, a liar.

--

norm

Quote

September 17, 200717 yr

Kerry;

I am unaware of any such documentation a least on Microsoft's website.

In the past trust has been a major issue brought up to Microsoft by myself

and others, and it will be again.

--

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

Windows Server System - Microsoft Update Services

> http://www.vistahelp.ca

"Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message

news:0F4FCE46-B63C-471B-B474-E701FAD0BE56@microsoft.com...

> I just spent a few hours searching microsoft.com for some documentation

> that clearly shows that you need to disable both Windows Updates and BITS

> to make sure you don't get any unexpected updates. I couldn't find any. If

> you read between the lines and read several articles spread across technet

> and msdn and the knowledge base you may come to this conclusion. Can you

> or anyone point me to a public document that clearly shows how to disable

> all updates? This is at best incompetence and at worst deliberate

> misdirection. For me it has broken the trust I had with Microsoft updates.

> I no longer trust them to do what I tell them to as I now know they will

> ignore that if they decide it is in my best interest. I want to decide

> what is best for me. I also want to know that when I check a box that says

> to turn something off it is off.

>

> --

> Kerry Brown

> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User

Quote

September 17, 200717 yr

Adam Albright wrote:

> On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 15:40:40 -0700, "Jupiter Jones [MVP]"

> <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote:

>

>>"Certainly sounds like you don't consider it important."

>>Your selective reading has led you to false assumptions before.

>

> You known the Emmy Awards are on tonight. Too bad you don't qualify or

> that they don't hand one out for pompous jerks. You would have run

> away with it hands down.

>

What a complete unmitigated as*hole you are!

Frank

Quote

September 17, 200717 yr

Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:

> Kerry;

> I am unaware of any such documentation a least on Microsoft's website.

> In the past trust has been a major issue brought up to Microsoft by

> myself and others, and it will be again.

In most cases it's not so much a distrust of Microsoft

as it is a shift in predictability..and if MS can do

hidden file transfers (especially for such a long while)

then it is most likely a tool with way too much power.

What we have at the moment is a 'blind trust' between

client units and microsoft servers...remote controlled.

Not just a remote control but one with higher privileges

than the client unit, that is the issue...imv

As far as logs are concerned...if files can be transfered

and run/replaced then logs and anything else is a trifle.

Just making notes,

since trust implies both parties have open hands,

anything else could be considered *subservient.

*characterized by extreme compliance or abject obedience

NT Canuck

'Seek and ye shall find'

Quote

September 17, 200717 yr

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 19:14:11 -0700, Frank <fb@nospan.crm> wrote:

>norm wrote:

>> Frank wrote:

>>

>>> norm wrote:

>>>

>>>>

>>>> You have no idea what I am, but you still remain a hypocrite.

>>>>

>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------

>>>

>>> Well norm, I don't think so.

>>> If you calling me a hypocrite is the best you can come with, and

>>> that's your best shot, sorry, but it is not near good enough.

>>

>> Good enough for what? You?

>

>Not good enough to mean anything to anyone except you. It's only your

>uneducated and unsubstantiated personal opinion. You speak only for

>yourself, right?

The point is I haven't seen Norm or for that matter most posters

attempt to speak for anyone but themselves. You and assorted other nut

cases on the other hand frequently use 'we' as to imply the half-ass

crap that so freely flows from your mouth and elsewhere represents

anything but the wild rantings, endless raving and constant lying of

the lunatic you've proved yourself to be.

The conclusion is you're just a garden variety idiot Frank. Everybody

gets it, but you. Imagine that. LOL!

Quote

September 17, 200717 yr

" pragmatism, n. 2. a philosophical movement or system having various forms,

but generally stressing practical consequences as constituting

the essential criterion in determining meaning, truth, or value. "

Discussions concerning Microsoft and EULA, etc,

will have a pragmatic value precisely when I get the letter in the mail

telling me that I do not have to do anything,

but that I am part of the class-action suit against Microsoft,

and that I can expect to get my share of the hefty settlement check

in the mail in the very near future.

Short of that, the pragmatic thing to contributed here

is to name exactly what should be turned on, and off,

and how to do it.

And this is how I do it.

If anyone can improve on this,

I'd very much appreciate hearing about it.

To start:

start_ALUS.bat

------------------

cd C:\WINDOWS\system32

sc.exe config "Automatic LiveUpdate Scheduler" start= auto

sc.exe config wuauserv start= auto

sc.exe start "Automatic LiveUpdate Scheduler"

sc.exe start wuauserv

To stop

stop_ALUS.bat

------------------

cd C:\WINDOWS\system32

sc.exe stop "Automatic LiveUpdate Scheduler"

sc.exe stop wuauserv

sc.exe config "Automatic LiveUpdate Scheduler" start= disabled

sc.exe config wuauserv start= disabled

~greg

Quote

September 17, 200717 yr

If nothing else the issue has created a lot of healthy debate. It has made

me think about updates in general, not just with Microsoft OS', in a whole

new way.

--

Kerry Brown

Microsoft MVP - Shell/User

> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar

"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote in message

news:%23LtdyTN%23HHA.484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> Kerry;

> I am unaware of any such documentation a least on Microsoft's website.

> In the past trust has been a major issue brought up to Microsoft by myself

> and others, and it will be again.

>

> --

> Jupiter Jones [MVP]

> Windows Server System - Microsoft Update Services

>

> "Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message

> news:0F4FCE46-B63C-471B-B474-E701FAD0BE56@microsoft.com...

>> I just spent a few hours searching microsoft.com for some documentation

>> that clearly shows that you need to disable both Windows Updates and BITS

>> to make sure you don't get any unexpected updates. I couldn't find any.

>> If you read between the lines and read several articles spread across

>> technet and msdn and the knowledge base you may come to this conclusion.

>> Can you or anyone point me to a public document that clearly shows how to

>> disable all updates? This is at best incompetence and at worst deliberate

>> misdirection. For me it has broken the trust I had with Microsoft

>> updates. I no longer trust them to do what I tell them to as I now know

>> they will ignore that if they decide it is in my best interest. I want to

>> decide what is best for me. I also want to know that when I check a box

>> that says to turn something off it is off.

>>

>> --

>> Kerry Brown

>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User

>> http://www.vistahelp.ca

>

Quote

September 17, 200717 yr

"Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message

news:%23xnE8KN%23HHA.3716@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>

> Oh BTW there is a simple reason it's not MVP in the sig. I am certainly

> NOT an "Expert" with every aspect of computing and did not want to appear

> to be an authority on something I'm not. I did help out with OE and IE but

> have lacked the time to contribute properly for quite a while...

>

> I think it is common to forget that a user who comes here may have just

> clicked a link and never used a newsreader before, or the awful CDO thing,

> and a lot probably feel a bit shy of asking questions. I don't think

> "Didn't you read the manual before you installed it?" is a terribly

> helpful reply :)

>

> This group and MS Access (Because the group name implies "Public Access to

> Microsoft") seem to be in a league of their own when it comes to talking

> down to folks :)

>

> If I'm wrong sometimes then I'm wrong, but I treat everyone the same be it

> George W Bush or Bill Gates, nobody I ever met had a halo or IMHO deserved

> one, including me :)

>

I thought long and hard about including MVP in my sig. There are many

reasons not to but in the end I decided that even though I like to think I'm

not easily swayed it's certainly possible that the MVP award may have

changed the way I think about Microsoft. People need to know that I may be

biased if they take my advice on something.

--

Kerry Brown

Microsoft MVP - Shell/User

Quote

September 17, 200717 yr

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 19:33:11 -0700, "Jupiter Jones [MVP]"

<jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote:

>No confusion.

>The need to attack others instead of dealing with the issue is a

>characteristic of those insecure with a need to prop their views...and it

>fails.

You mean like when you find it necessary to scold posters asking

questions?

Maybe you mean when you play traffic cop and try to chase posters to

another newsgroups.

Telling people they should do research first?

Oh, maybe you mean you getting off being a net cop.

Playing attorney?

No? Well how about your role as Microsoft apologist?

I thought Alan Flavel the jackass that raised being a pompous ass to

an art form in CIWAH was the ultimate blowhard. Then I found you.

Quote

September 17, 200717 yr

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 19:46:22 -0700, "Jupiter Jones [MVP]"

<jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote:

>Kerry;

>I am unaware of any such documentation a least on Microsoft's website.

>In the past trust has been a major issue brought up to Microsoft by myself

>and others, and it will be again.

Oh please... you're delusional with your imagined importance. Classic

Walter Mitty complex.

Quote

September 17, 200717 yr

Kerry Brown wrote:

> If nothing else the issue has created a lot of healthy debate. It has

> made me think about updates in general, not just with Microsoft OS', in

> a whole new way.

Sooner or later this will save you some hunting. ;)

Please note that the procedure is from an MS website

so they are making an effort however obscured.

Vista (or the Vista OPK) contains an updated expand.exe command

line utility which can be used to view the newer Vista hotfixes

in (*.msu packed by IPD I think).

If you are extracting a hotfix package, follow these steps:

Double-click the Hotfix.exe file.

In the Microsoft Self-Extractor dialog box, click Continue.

In the Select the folder where you want to unzip the files

to box,

type C:\MSUFolder, and then click OK.

If you are not extracting a hotfix package, create a folder that

is named C:\MSUFolder, and then save the MSU file to this

folder.

At a command prompt, type the following commands.

Press ENTER after each command.

c:cd c:\MSUFolder expand -F:* Saved_MSU_File_Name.msu

c:\MSUFolder

expand -F: Saved_MSU_File_Name.cab c:\MSUFolder

The C:\CABextract folder now contains subfolders.

Examine the files in the subfolders to determine which files

are updated by the MSU.

PS; Typically *.cab are no problem to open.

7zip freeware compression utility will open/extract *.wim files.

LessMSIerables can extract *.msi files (includes source).

NT Canuck

'Seek and ye shall find'

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September 17, 200717 yr

Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:

> Kerry;

> I am unaware of any such documentation a least on Microsoft's website.

> In the past trust has been a major issue brought up to Microsoft by

> myself and others, and it will be again.

>

Ah the great hero Jupiter steps up to defend the users despite

constantly denying there's a problem and telling them to read the EULA

again...

And it obviously doesn't influence Microsoft at all, does it? What an

inflated ego you have.

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September 17, 200717 yr

Kerry Brown wrote:

> "Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message

> news:%23xnE8KN%23HHA.3716@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>

>> Oh BTW there is a simple reason it's not MVP in the sig. I am

>> certainly NOT an "Expert" with every aspect of computing and did not

>> want to appear to be an authority on something I'm not. I did help out

>> with OE and IE but have lacked the time to contribute properly for

>> quite a while...

>>

>> I think it is common to forget that a user who comes here may have

>> just clicked a link and never used a newsreader before, or the awful

>> CDO thing, and a lot probably feel a bit shy of asking questions. I

>> don't think "Didn't you read the manual before you installed it?" is a

>> terribly helpful reply :)

>>

>> This group and MS Access (Because the group name implies "Public

>> Access to Microsoft") seem to be in a league of their own when it

>> comes to talking down to folks :)

>>

>> If I'm wrong sometimes then I'm wrong, but I treat everyone the same

>> be it George W Bush or Bill Gates, nobody I ever met had a halo or

>> IMHO deserved one, including me :)

>>

>

> I thought long and hard about including MVP in my sig. There are many

> reasons not to but in the end I decided that even though I like to think

> I'm not easily swayed it's certainly possible that the MVP award may

> have changed the way I think about Microsoft. People need to know that I

> may be biased if they take my advice on something.

>

I try very hard to remain unbiased. I have had concerns about other OS

also. For example Open Source is "Supposed" to be good in terms of peer

review etc. But - does anyone except a developer really look at a Linux

Kernel and study the source code in depth except for the part(s) they

are immediately involved with? Or, do they just take the bits that are

not altered this time around and recompile again?

What are the chances of something malicious sneaking in?

I know that's not supposed to happen but could it?

Look at the number of updates to Java recently, true it's not an OS but

it does play a major role in some areas.

So yes, I think the purpose of the MVP award was well intentioned, and

one can declare honestly there's no obligation to MS except of course

the non disclosure agreement. OTOH they don't tell me much they don't

want others to know anyway, but I would honor that agreement as far as

proprietary info goes. As for criticism where we think it is due I think

the MVP award explicitly expects constructive criticism. Otherwise why

include the parts about being independent.

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