Re: ubuntu

  • Thread starter Thread starter Peter Köhlmann
  • Start date Start date
P

Peter Köhlmann

dennis@home wrote:

>
>
> "Ian Thompson-Bell" <ruffrecords@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:fjrj0t$1rq1$1@energise.enta.net...
>> dennis@home wrote:
>>> You can disassemble it if you want.. its been done before.
>>> That doesn't require the source and is probably the only way to be sure
>>> of what something does.
>>> The snag is some things are very difficult to understand when they are
>>> disassembled so it doesn't get done often, especially if the "source" is
>>> available.
>>>
>>> Its just another argument against the open source cures everything
>>> arguments.

>>
>> There is no such argument. There is an argument that says open source is
>> better than closed source.
>>
>>> There are good reasons to support open source.. being secure and bug
>>> free are not amongst them.

>>
>> No complex software is totally secure and bug free. The question is the
>> degree to which it is so, and the speed with which bugs/holes are fixed.
>>
>>> Experience shows that despite the source being available for everyone to
>>> examine open source stuff still ships with bugs and security holes.

>>
>> You miss the point Dennis. Open source never has claimed to be bug and
>> hole free.

>
> I know open source hasn't, however there are a lot of Linux users that do
> claim that.


Then it should be a piece of cake for you to prove that.
Come on, cretinous liar, provide the Msg-IDs. You might ask Hadron Quark to
give you a hand

> Some of them are here and will be along with the insults soon.


Certainly. *After* you prove your lies, imbecile Vista luser

< snip more dennis lunacy >
--
Warning: 10 days have passed since your last Windows reinstall.
 
"PeterKöhlmann" . wrote in message
news:fjrt2r$g5a$02$1@news.t-online.com...
> dennis@home wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> "Ian Thompson-Bell" <ruffrecords@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:fjrj0t$1rq1$1@energise.enta.net...
>>> dennis@home wrote:
>>>> You can disassemble it if you want.. its been done before.
>>>> That doesn't require the source and is probably the only way to be sure
>>>> of what something does.
>>>> The snag is some things are very difficult to understand when they are
>>>> disassembled so it doesn't get done often, especially if the "source"
>>>> is
>>>> available.
>>>>
>>>> Its just another argument against the open source cures everything
>>>> arguments.
>>>
>>> There is no such argument. There is an argument that says open source is
>>> better than closed source.
>>>
>>>> There are good reasons to support open source.. being secure and bug
>>>> free are not amongst them.
>>>
>>> No complex software is totally secure and bug free. The question is the
>>> degree to which it is so, and the speed with which bugs/holes are fixed.
>>>
>>>> Experience shows that despite the source being available for everyone
>>>> to
>>>> examine open source stuff still ships with bugs and security holes.
>>>
>>> You miss the point Dennis. Open source never has claimed to be bug and
>>> hole free.

>>
>> I know open source hasn't, however there are a lot of Linux users that do
>> claim that.

>
> Then it should be a piece of cake for you to prove that.


Prove what?
You have claimed Linux to be secure in the past so that is enough proof on
its own.

> Come on, cretinous liar, provide the Msg-IDs.


Even you should be able to remember what you said.. if not learn Google.

> You might ask Hadron Quark to
> give you a hand
>
>> Some of them are here and will be along with the insults soon.

>
> Certainly. *After* you prove your lies, imbecile Vista luser


See I was right, as proved by you.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
dennis@home wrote:

>
>
> "PeterKöhlmann" . wrote in message
> news:fjrt2r$g5a$02$1@news.t-online.com...
>> dennis@home wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Ian Thompson-Bell" <ruffrecords@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:fjrj0t$1rq1$1@energise.enta.net...
>>>> dennis@home wrote:
>>>>> You can disassemble it if you want.. its been done before.
>>>>> That doesn't require the source and is probably the only way to be
>>>>> sure of what something does.
>>>>> The snag is some things are very difficult to understand when they are
>>>>> disassembled so it doesn't get done often, especially if the "source"
>>>>> is
>>>>> available.
>>>>>
>>>>> Its just another argument against the open source cures everything
>>>>> arguments.
>>>>
>>>> There is no such argument. There is an argument that says open source
>>>> is better than closed source.
>>>>
>>>>> There are good reasons to support open source.. being secure and bug
>>>>> free are not amongst them.
>>>>
>>>> No complex software is totally secure and bug free. The question is the
>>>> degree to which it is so, and the speed with which bugs/holes are
>>>> fixed.
>>>>
>>>>> Experience shows that despite the source being available for everyone
>>>>> to
>>>>> examine open source stuff still ships with bugs and security holes.
>>>>
>>>> You miss the point Dennis. Open source never has claimed to be bug and
>>>> hole free.
>>>
>>> I know open source hasn't, however there are a lot of Linux users that
>>> do claim that.

>>
>> Then it should be a piece of cake for you to prove that.

>
> Prove what?


"I know open source hasn't, however there are a lot of Linux users that
do claim that"

*Your* claim. Now provide proof for it

> You have claimed Linux to be secure in the past


Would you be so kind as to provide "proof" for that claim also
Msg-ID will do just fine

> so that is enough proof on its own.


It is. When you will provide Msg-ID for that claim of *yours*


>> Come on, cretinous liar, provide the Msg-IDs.

>
> Even you should be able to remember what you said.. if not learn Google.



Ah Yes. You claim something imbecile (as you are a Vista luser)
So to prove you wrong people should do google-searches?

Why not instead *you* provide google-searches which prove you right?
Just because it is impossible you think that you should be proven wrong on
every small thing?


>>> I know open source hasn't, however there are a lot of Linux users that
>>> do claim th

>> You might ask Hadron Quark to give you a hand
>>
>>> Some of them are here and will be along with the insults soon.

>>
>> Certainly. *After* you prove your lies, imbecile Vista luser

>
> See I was right, as proved by you.


Yes. I did ask you to provide any shred of proof for your imbecile stance.

--
It's not about, 'Where do you want to go today?' It's more like,
'Where am I allowed to go today?'
 
Last edited by a moderator:
"PeterKöhlmann" . wrote in message
news:fjsdib$ss7$01$1@news.t-online.com...
> dennis@home wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> "PeterKöhlmann" . wrote in message
>> news:fjrt2r$g5a$02$1@news.t-online.com...
>>> dennis@home wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Ian Thompson-Bell" <ruffrecords@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>> news:fjrj0t$1rq1$1@energise.enta.net...
>>>>> dennis@home wrote:
>>>>>> You can disassemble it if you want.. its been done before.
>>>>>> That doesn't require the source and is probably the only way to be
>>>>>> sure of what something does.
>>>>>> The snag is some things are very difficult to understand when they
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> disassembled so it doesn't get done often, especially if the "source"
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> available.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Its just another argument against the open source cures everything
>>>>>> arguments.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no such argument. There is an argument that says open source
>>>>> is better than closed source.
>>>>>
>>>>>> There are good reasons to support open source.. being secure and bug
>>>>>> free are not amongst them.
>>>>>
>>>>> No complex software is totally secure and bug free. The question is
>>>>> the
>>>>> degree to which it is so, and the speed with which bugs/holes are
>>>>> fixed.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Experience shows that despite the source being available for everyone
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> examine open source stuff still ships with bugs and security holes.
>>>>>
>>>>> You miss the point Dennis. Open source never has claimed to be bug and
>>>>> hole free.
>>>>
>>>> I know open source hasn't, however there are a lot of Linux users that
>>>> do claim that.
>>>
>>> Then it should be a piece of cake for you to prove that.

>>
>> Prove what?

>
> "I know open source hasn't, however there are a lot of Linux users that
> do claim that"
>
> *Your* claim. Now provide proof for it
>
>> You have claimed Linux to be secure in the past

>
> Would you be so kind as to provide "proof" for that claim also
> Msg-ID will do just fine
>
>> so that is enough proof on its own.

>
> It is. When you will provide Msg-ID for that claim of *yours*
>
>
>>> Come on, cretinous liar, provide the Msg-IDs.

>>
>> Even you should be able to remember what you said.. if not learn Google.

>
>
> Ah Yes. You claim something imbecile (as you are a Vista luser)
> So to prove you wrong people should do google-searches?
>
> Why not instead *you* provide google-searches which prove you right?
> Just because it is impossible you think that you should be proven wrong on
> every small thing?
>


Mainly because you wont accept anything I post so why should I waste my time
on you.
You should have worked it out by now that I and probably most others treat
you with contempt like you deserve.

>
>>>> I know open source hasn't, however there are a lot of Linux users that
>>>> do claim th
>>> You might ask Hadron Quark to give you a hand
>>>
>>>> Some of them are here and will be along with the insults soon.
>>>
>>> Certainly. *After* you prove your lies, imbecile Vista luser

>>
>> See I was right, as proved by you.

>
> Yes. I did ask you to provide any shred of proof for your imbecile stance.


Still more evidence, do keep it up.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Peter Köhlmann wrote:
> dennis@home wrote:
>
>>
>> "PeterKöhlmann" . wrote in message
>> news:fjrt2r$g5a$02$1@news.t-online.com...
>>> dennis@home wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Ian Thompson-Bell" <ruffrecords@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>> news:fjrj0t$1rq1$1@energise.enta.net...
>>>>> dennis@home wrote:
>>>>>> You can disassemble it if you want.. its been done before.
>>>>>> That doesn't require the source and is probably the only way to be
>>>>>> sure of what something does.
>>>>>> The snag is some things are very difficult to understand when they are
>>>>>> disassembled so it doesn't get done often, especially if the "source"
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> available.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Its just another argument against the open source cures everything
>>>>>> arguments.
>>>>> There is no such argument. There is an argument that says open source
>>>>> is better than closed source.
>>>>>
>>>>>> There are good reasons to support open source.. being secure and bug
>>>>>> free are not amongst them.
>>>>> No complex software is totally secure and bug free. The question is the
>>>>> degree to which it is so, and the speed with which bugs/holes are
>>>>> fixed.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Experience shows that despite the source being available for everyone
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> examine open source stuff still ships with bugs and security holes.
>>>>> You miss the point Dennis. Open source never has claimed to be bug and
>>>>> hole free.
>>>> I know open source hasn't, however there are a lot of Linux users that
>>>> do claim that.
>>> Then it should be a piece of cake for you to prove that.

>> Prove what?

>
> "I know open source hasn't, however there are a lot of Linux users that
> do claim that"
>
> *Your* claim. Now provide proof for it
>
>> You have claimed Linux to be secure in the past

>
> Would you be so kind as to provide "proof" for that claim also
> Msg-ID will do just fine
>
>> so that is enough proof on its own.

>
> It is. When you will provide Msg-ID for that claim of *yours*
>
>
>>> Come on, cretinous liar, provide the Msg-IDs.

>> Even you should be able to remember what you said.. if not learn Google.

>
>
> Ah Yes. You claim something imbecile (as you are a Vista luser)
> So to prove you wrong people should do google-searches?
>
> Why not instead *you* provide google-searches which prove you right?
> Just because it is impossible you think that you should be proven wrong on
> every small thing?
>
>
>>>> I know open source hasn't, however there are a lot of Linux users that
>>>> do claim th
>>> You might ask Hadron Quark to give you a hand
>>>
>>>> Some of them are here and will be along with the insults soon.
>>> Certainly. *After* you prove your lies, imbecile Vista luser

>> See I was right, as proved by you.

>
> Yes. I did ask you to provide any shred of proof for your imbecile stance.
>



Peter,

I think it is time to admit that newer Linux versions are acceptable
enough to the general public to be a real challenge to Microsoft - for
"Many" users something like Ubuntu will do "Most" of what they want or
need at less cost, and just as reliably. Windows beats the hell out of
it for games, that's because the authors don't yet write for Linux, but
demand can change that almost overnight. It's kinda pointless arguing
against the "Linux is worthless" crowd because they simply have their
heads in a dark place and in the end will do more harm to Microsoft than
anyone else.

Example, I have a few old W98 boxes that are officially trashed but
which come in useful for small offices where folks occasionally place
web based orders etc. No way is it worth paying for software, the
original disks are long gone, I cannot purchase XP and company policy
prohibits use of 98 for security reasons. I "Could" install pirate
copies of XP which really would not "Hurt" Microsoft - we are never
going to buy it anyway and so on - but of course I will not do that,
instead they run Debian with the standard Gnome desktop because the
hardware just about copes with it. None, (and I mean none) of the folks
who use them have ever complained, they have never hit problems using
them and so we have a bit more convenience at zero cost. In fact the
only question anyone has asked is "What did it cost" - well, nothing.

Sure, this has nothing to do with Vista, but in fact it does have
something of relevance for Microsoft and all their future operating
systems, they are no longer indispensable. There is no objectionable
WGA/WPA to bother about, the machines sit quietly in a corner doing
their jobs and the users are happy. Nobody misses the games, we are at
work after all, so where newer Windows versions are causing machines to
become obsolete, Linux is recycling them. I have to say recycling them
with no hassle and zero cost. The problem I see this creating for
Microsoft is that more and more people are learning that there are
perfectly viable alternatives, and no matter how much preaching is done
about Windows / Vista or whatever these people will recognize it for
what it is, call it the fanboy syndrome if you like.

I'm sure that some will see my comments as somehow disloyal to
Microsoft, it's not that at all, we have a responsibility to Microsoft's
customers to keep things honest. My choice in the above example was to
throw away perfectly usable hardware, steal Windows or go the honest
route and use open source. The problem for Microsoft is would they
"Really" prefer to see XP on every desktop in our small company or are
they happy to see something else. In reality we run a W2003 server so
the RDP client, when it is used "Looks like" Windows anyway, but I
wonder how many more small time business users like me are doing the
same, by choice I'd have stuck with XP because all our people know it,
but I had no choice and found that changing to Linux has created zero
problems, If I hadn't been forced I would probably never have known or
cared that ordinary users would accept it so easily.

So I think Microsoft's appearance of being a bit "Heavy Handed" over
piracy issues and so on is kinda "Justified" but nevertheless a bit
dangerous for them also. I also think the changes to methodology in
Vista have imposed a learning curve at least as steep as changing to
Ubuntu, Debian is maybe a bit less "Friendly" but hey, it was me who had
to set that up so no users were bothered either way.

Personally I think competition is good, and I am pleased to see open
source doing well and I would like to see Microsoft doing well, and both
teams doing so honestly. I don't care if Apple and Microsoft want to
play dirty against each other, that's business, but I don't like to see
FUD, lies and garbage thrown around just because there's a bit of
genuine competition :) I do think Microsoft need to think carefully
about these issues, very carefully, because if change does come it may
do so like an avalanche, with not much provocation and an lot of
inertia. Sorry is anyone doesn't like my opinion, and I may be judging
things wrong, but at this point in time that's how I see things.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hi,

Allow me to share my two cents,

I agree with you for everything and admire you for being one of the very few
who can sense the potential danger posed by competitions.

Sadly but honestly, however, I personally don't think Linux can be a serious
threat any time soon (not even with Dell's support), and if they miss the
next 5-10 years, they will have no more chance. What BG actually is doing
at this time is to pave the path for the company for the next 30-50 years.
Hint: The major growth will not be in the states. And he knows it very well
that he cannot do the job as an official representative of the company.

So if Linux can't catch up soon enough, it will forever miss the chance. Do
I like to see that happen? Not at all! I am a supporter of market economy,
so by all means, I also support fair competitions for the benefits of all.

But why am I pessimistic about Linux's future? In short, technical
arrogance and ignorance. They simply refuse to believe that in the real
world, product and technology are only part of reasons for making a product
and company succeeded. There are reasons for companies at all sizes need to
hire and use professionals and talents other than technical professionals.
Excuse my ignorance but I haven't seen ONE success story of any company in
any industry which has only one department - R&D department.

BG understood this simple thing at early stage, so MS is not just fighting
the battle for each product (which nevertheless is important) they also
have well crafted business strategies that use each product to support other
products which ultimately provides a seamlessly integrated "offer" to the
customer. BG even publicly announced the company's strategies during 90s
and if any of its competitors had paid any attention, the outcome would be
different.

What about Linux? As far as I can see, Linux has no business model nor
strategies but chasing after the company for a singular product offer.

Do they have chance? I think so. The need is still there. For anyone who
is interested, search the net for "MiniTel". I know for a fact that this M
company once studied it intensively but abonded it for unknown reason.
However, the need of using a simple computing device for simple works
including surfing are there as it was once proved by this little device.

IMHO, Linux will never have any future if it is simply chasing after the
company for one product offer. It needs new breakthrough strategies for new
things, and that is what Apple has been doing in the past few years (e.g.
iPod, iphone, new Mac, etc.) and now finally have seeing the fruits.

But frankly, I don't think Linux fanatics will accept any external advise
and assistance from non-technical professionals. That fact has already
determined their failure.


"Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message
news:e1KZtiyPIHA.6060@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Peter Kohlmann wrote:
>> dennis@home wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "PeterKohlmann" . wrote in message
>>> news:fjrt2r$g5a$02$1@news.t-online.com...
>>>> dennis@home wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Ian Thompson-Bell" <ruffrecords@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>> news:fjrj0t$1rq1$1@energise.enta.net...
>>>>>> dennis@home wrote:
>>>>>>> You can disassemble it if you want.. its been done before.
>>>>>>> That doesn't require the source and is probably the only way to be
>>>>>>> sure of what something does.
>>>>>>> The snag is some things are very difficult to understand when they
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> disassembled so it doesn't get done often, especially if the
>>>>>>> "source"
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> available.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Its just another argument against the open source cures everything
>>>>>>> arguments.
>>>>>> There is no such argument. There is an argument that says open source
>>>>>> is better than closed source.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are good reasons to support open source.. being secure and bug
>>>>>>> free are not amongst them.
>>>>>> No complex software is totally secure and bug free. The question is
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> degree to which it is so, and the speed with which bugs/holes are
>>>>>> fixed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Experience shows that despite the source being available for
>>>>>>> everyone
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> examine open source stuff still ships with bugs and security holes.
>>>>>> You miss the point Dennis. Open source never has claimed to be bug
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> hole free.
>>>>> I know open source hasn't, however there are a lot of Linux users that
>>>>> do claim that.
>>>> Then it should be a piece of cake for you to prove that.
>>> Prove what?

>>
>> "I know open source hasn't, however there are a lot of Linux users that
>> do claim that"
>>
>> *Your* claim. Now provide proof for it
>>
>>> You have claimed Linux to be secure in the past

>>
>> Would you be so kind as to provide "proof" for that claim also
>> Msg-ID will do just fine
>>
>>> so that is enough proof on its own.

>>
>> It is. When you will provide Msg-ID for that claim of *yours*
>>
>>
>>>> Come on, cretinous liar, provide the Msg-IDs.
>>> Even you should be able to remember what you said.. if not learn Google.

>>
>>
>> Ah Yes. You claim something imbecile (as you are a Vista luser)
>> So to prove you wrong people should do google-searches?
>>
>> Why not instead *you* provide google-searches which prove you right?
>> Just because it is impossible you think that you should be proven wrong
>> on
>> every small thing?
>>
>>
>>>>> I know open source hasn't, however there are a lot of Linux users that
>>>>> do claim th
>>>> You might ask Hadron Quark to give you a hand
>>>>
>>>>> Some of them are here and will be along with the insults soon.
>>>> Certainly. *After* you prove your lies, imbecile Vista luser
>>> See I was right, as proved by you.

>>
>> Yes. I did ask you to provide any shred of proof for your imbecile
>> stance.
>>

>
>
> Peter,
>
> I think it is time to admit that newer Linux versions are acceptable
> enough to the general public to be a real challenge to Microsoft - for
> "Many" users something like Ubuntu will do "Most" of what they want or
> need at less cost, and just as reliably. Windows beats the hell out of it
> for games, that's because the authors don't yet write for Linux, but
> demand can change that almost overnight. It's kinda pointless arguing
> against the "Linux is worthless" crowd because they simply have their
> heads in a dark place and in the end will do more harm to Microsoft than
> anyone else.
>
> Example, I have a few old W98 boxes that are officially trashed but which
> come in useful for small offices where folks occasionally place web based
> orders etc. No way is it worth paying for software, the original disks are
> long gone, I cannot purchase XP and company policy prohibits use of 98 for
> security reasons. I "Could" install pirate copies of XP which really would
> not "Hurt" Microsoft - we are never going to buy it anyway and so on - but
> of course I will not do that, instead they run Debian with the standard
> Gnome desktop because the hardware just about copes with it. None, (and I
> mean none) of the folks who use them have ever complained, they have never
> hit problems using them and so we have a bit more convenience at zero
> cost. In fact the only question anyone has asked is "What did it cost" -
> well, nothing.
>
> Sure, this has nothing to do with Vista, but in fact it does have
> something of relevance for Microsoft and all their future operating
> systems, they are no longer indispensable. There is no objectionable
> WGA/WPA to bother about, the machines sit quietly in a corner doing their
> jobs and the users are happy. Nobody misses the games, we are at work
> after all, so where newer Windows versions are causing machines to become
> obsolete, Linux is recycling them. I have to say recycling them with no
> hassle and zero cost. The problem I see this creating for Microsoft is
> that more and more people are learning that there are perfectly viable
> alternatives, and no matter how much preaching is done about Windows /
> Vista or whatever these people will recognize it for what it is, call it
> the fanboy syndrome if you like.
>
> I'm sure that some will see my comments as somehow disloyal to Microsoft,
> it's not that at all, we have a responsibility to Microsoft's customers to
> keep things honest. My choice in the above example was to throw away
> perfectly usable hardware, steal Windows or go the honest route and use
> open source. The problem for Microsoft is would they "Really" prefer to
> see XP on every desktop in our small company or are they happy to see
> something else. In reality we run a W2003 server so the RDP client, when
> it is used "Looks like" Windows anyway, but I wonder how many more small
> time business users like me are doing the same, by choice I'd have stuck
> with XP because all our people know it, but I had no choice and found that
> changing to Linux has created zero problems, If I hadn't been forced I
> would probably never have known or cared that ordinary users would accept
> it so easily.
>
> So I think Microsoft's appearance of being a bit "Heavy Handed" over
> piracy issues and so on is kinda "Justified" but nevertheless a bit
> dangerous for them also. I also think the changes to methodology in Vista
> have imposed a learning curve at least as steep as changing to Ubuntu,
> Debian is maybe a bit less "Friendly" but hey, it was me who had to set
> that up so no users were bothered either way.
>
> Personally I think competition is good, and I am pleased to see open
> source doing well and I would like to see Microsoft doing well, and both
> teams doing so honestly. I don't care if Apple and Microsoft want to play
> dirty against each other, that's business, but I don't like to see FUD,
> lies and garbage thrown around just because there's a bit of genuine
> competition :) I do think Microsoft need to think carefully about these
> issues, very carefully, because if change does come it may do so like an
> avalanche, with not much provocation and an lot of inertia. Sorry is
> anyone doesn't like my opinion, and I may be judging things wrong, but at
> this point in time that's how I see things.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
"xfile" <coucou@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:O8haU5KQIHA.2208@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Hi,
>
> Allow me to share my two cents,
>
> I agree with you for everything and admire you for being one of the very
> few who can sense the potential danger posed by competitions.
>
> Sadly but honestly, however, I personally don't think Linux can be a
> serious threat any time soon (not even with Dell's support), and if they
> miss the next 5-10 years, they will have no more chance. What BG actually
> is doing at this time is to pave the path for the company for the next
> 30-50 years. Hint: The major growth will not be in the states. And he
> knows it very well that he cannot do the job as an official representative
> of the company.
>
> So if Linux can't catch up soon enough, it will forever miss the chance.
> Do I like to see that happen? Not at all! I am a supporter of market
> economy, so by all means, I also support fair competitions for the
> benefits of all.
>
> But why am I pessimistic about Linux's future? In short, technical
> arrogance and ignorance. They simply refuse to believe that in the real
> world, product and technology are only part of reasons for making a
> product and company succeeded. There are reasons for companies at all
> sizes need to hire and use professionals and talents other than technical
> professionals. Excuse my ignorance but I haven't seen ONE success story of
> any company in any industry which has only one department - R&D
> department.
>
> BG understood this simple thing at early stage, so MS is not just fighting
> the battle for each product (which nevertheless is important) they also
> have well crafted business strategies that use each product to support
> other products which ultimately provides a seamlessly integrated "offer"
> to the customer. BG even publicly announced the company's strategies
> during 90s and if any of its competitors had paid any attention, the
> outcome would be different.
>
> What about Linux? As far as I can see, Linux has no business model nor
> strategies but chasing after the company for a singular product offer.
>
> Do they have chance? I think so. The need is still there. For anyone
> who is interested, search the net for "MiniTel". I know for a fact that
> this M company once studied it intensively but abonded it for unknown
> reason. However, the need of using a simple computing device for simple
> works including surfing are there as it was once proved by this little
> device.
>
> IMHO, Linux will never have any future if it is simply chasing after the
> company for one product offer. It needs new breakthrough strategies for
> new things, and that is what Apple has been doing in the past few years
> (e.g. iPod, iphone, new Mac, etc.) and now finally have seeing the fruits.
>
> But frankly, I don't think Linux fanatics will accept any external advise
> and assistance from non-technical professionals. That fact has already
> determined their failure.


I could not have said this better myself. Extremely well thought out. In
short, outstanding.

--
Ok, I admit it, I killed Barney!!
http://www.lockergnome.com/darksentinel
You know what to do with the munge
 
Thank you and I am flattered!

I was hoping Linux advocates could read it and can become a much more
stronger competitor (like Apple is becoming) in such a way to help this
company push out better quality products.

I am not shy to say that I am getting more and more disappointed with its
product quality.

Thanks again for taking the time and your compliment.


"DarkSentinel" <darkmungesentinel@munge.charter.munge.net> wrote in message
news:F7E7FCB5-F86A-4E89-8F1E-D238A854ED25@microsoft.com...
> "xfile" <coucou@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:O8haU5KQIHA.2208@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> Hi,
>>
>> Allow me to share my two cents,
>>
>> I agree with you for everything and admire you for being one of the very
>> few who can sense the potential danger posed by competitions.
>>
>> Sadly but honestly, however, I personally don't think Linux can be a
>> serious threat any time soon (not even with Dell's support), and if they
>> miss the next 5-10 years, they will have no more chance. What BG
>> actually is doing at this time is to pave the path for the company for
>> the next 30-50 years. Hint: The major growth will not be in the states.
>> And he knows it very well that he cannot do the job as an official
>> representative of the company.
>>
>> So if Linux can't catch up soon enough, it will forever miss the chance.
>> Do I like to see that happen? Not at all! I am a supporter of market
>> economy, so by all means, I also support fair competitions for the
>> benefits of all.
>>
>> But why am I pessimistic about Linux's future? In short, technical
>> arrogance and ignorance. They simply refuse to believe that in the real
>> world, product and technology are only part of reasons for making a
>> product and company succeeded. There are reasons for companies at all
>> sizes need to hire and use professionals and talents other than technical
>> professionals. Excuse my ignorance but I haven't seen ONE success story
>> of any company in any industry which has only one department - R&D
>> department.
>>
>> BG understood this simple thing at early stage, so MS is not just
>> fighting the battle for each product (which nevertheless is important)
>> they also have well crafted business strategies that use each product to
>> support other products which ultimately provides a seamlessly integrated
>> "offer" to the customer. BG even publicly announced the company's
>> strategies during 90s and if any of its competitors had paid any
>> attention, the outcome would be different.
>>
>> What about Linux? As far as I can see, Linux has no business model nor
>> strategies but chasing after the company for a singular product offer.
>>
>> Do they have chance? I think so. The need is still there. For anyone
>> who is interested, search the net for "MiniTel". I know for a fact that
>> this M company once studied it intensively but abonded it for unknown
>> reason. However, the need of using a simple computing device for simple
>> works including surfing are there as it was once proved by this little
>> device.
>>
>> IMHO, Linux will never have any future if it is simply chasing after the
>> company for one product offer. It needs new breakthrough strategies for
>> new things, and that is what Apple has been doing in the past few years
>> (e.g. iPod, iphone, new Mac, etc.) and now finally have seeing the
>> fruits.
>>
>> But frankly, I don't think Linux fanatics will accept any external advise
>> and assistance from non-technical professionals. That fact has already
>> determined their failure.

>
> I could not have said this better myself. Extremely well thought out. In
> short, outstanding.
>
> --
> Ok, I admit it, I killed Barney!!
> http://www.lockergnome.com/darksentinel
> You know what to do with the munge
 
"xfile" <coucou@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:#Fgc$ytQIHA.5400@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Thank you and I am flattered!
>
> I was hoping Linux advocates could read it and can become a much more
> stronger competitor (like Apple is becoming) in such a way to help this
> company push out better quality products.
>
> I am not shy to say that I am getting more and more disappointed with its
> product quality.
>
> Thanks again for taking the time and your compliment.


No need for thanks. With all the crap flinging from the zealots on both
sides it is refreshing to seen something other than "Oh yeah, well f*ck you"
or "Liar, liar, pants on fire". ESPECIALLY when the post is well thought
out, and more importantly right on the money.

Personally, I could care less what operating system a person uses, as long
as it does the things they need/want it to do. I don't subscribe to the "My
OS is better than yours, so bite me" crowd. Each of the OS's have their own
strengths, and weaknesses. I'm not the biggest Mac fan, but it too has it's
strengths. I got into the business because my uncle was an EE for Big Blue.
I started on DOS 1 and haven't looked back. Hell, I even had a PCjr. Now
that IS dating me...lol

If I haven't worked on it, I have more than likely seen it at one time or
another. Prolly one of the weirdest is the Unisys "Toasters". I've even gone
as far a doing board level work. I've seen/used the old Winchester hard
disks that were bigger than some modern VCRs. Unfortunately, there are
always going to be those that like stirring up shit. Their lives revolve
around trying to get people going. Most of us just ignore them. There are
however, those that just can't help themselves, and the flame wars start
anew. They just cannot comprehend that IF they present their advocacy in a
manner like YOU did, people might actually listen, and take note. But since
they insist on acting like a smacktard, they are ridiculed and ignored by
all except those I mentioned before.

For me, the reason I like Linux, is I can get down to the nitty gritty, and
even compile my own kernel if I want to, and with the plethora of WM's(KDE,
Gnome, etc), I can make my system look exactly like I want it because I'm
not stuck with the "Microsoft Look". I like Windows, perversely enough,
because of that look, and because I have so many more choices in terms of
applications. The "look" means I can basically do the stuff blind folded
because I know the file menu is going to be in this location, the help file
should be here, ad infinitum. The Linux advocates say well it works with
this hardware, and that. But I remember not to long ago, that X-11 supported
very few video cards, and if you had cards like the old Spider Black Widow
VLB, or older Matrox Video cards, you were SOL unless you could sit there,
and tweak the code until it worked.

So when the goobers start slinging their barbs back and forth, I just smile,
do my posts here, on my blog, maybe render one of my pictures in Bryce or
Poser, and just generally remain productive. Meanwhile, THEIR lives are
consumed by their need to "one up" the other as soon as the next post hits
the server. It is truly sad.

--
Ok, I admit it, I killed Barney!!
http://www.lockergnome.com/darksentinel
You know what to do with the munge
 
On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 05:11:20 -0800, xfile wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Allow me to share my two cents,
>
> I agree with you for everything and admire you for being one of the very
> few who can sense the potential danger posed by competitions.
>
> Sadly but honestly, however, I personally don't think Linux can be a
> serious threat any time soon (not even with Dell's support), and if they
> miss the next 5-10 years, they will have no more chance. What BG
> actually is doing at this time is to pave the path for the company for
> the next 30-50 years. Hint: The major growth will not be in the states.
> And he knows it very well that he cannot do the job as an official
> representative of the company.
>
> So if Linux can't catch up soon enough, it will forever miss the chance.
> Do I like to see that happen? Not at all! I am a supporter of market
> economy, so by all means, I also support fair competitions for the
> benefits of all.
>
> But why am I pessimistic about Linux's future? In short, technical
> arrogance and ignorance. They simply refuse to believe that in the real
> world, product and technology are only part of reasons for making a
> product and company succeeded. There are reasons for companies at all
> sizes need to hire and use professionals and talents other than
> technical professionals. Excuse my ignorance but I haven't seen ONE
> success story of any company in any industry which has only one
> department - R&D department.
>
> BG understood this simple thing at early stage, so MS is not just
> fighting the battle for each product (which nevertheless is important)
> they also have well crafted business strategies that use each product to
> support other products which ultimately provides a seamlessly integrated
> "offer" to the customer. BG even publicly announced the company's
> strategies during 90s and if any of its competitors had paid any
> attention, the outcome would be different.
>
> What about Linux? As far as I can see, Linux has no business model nor
> strategies but chasing after the company for a singular product offer.
>
> Do they have chance? I think so. The need is still there. For anyone
> who is interested, search the net for "MiniTel". I know for a fact that
> this M company once studied it intensively but abonded it for unknown
> reason. However, the need of using a simple computing device for simple
> works including surfing are there as it was once proved by this little
> device.
>
> IMHO, Linux will never have any future if it is simply chasing after the
> company for one product offer. It needs new breakthrough strategies for
> new things, and that is what Apple has been doing in the past few years
> (e.g. iPod, iphone, new Mac, etc.) and now finally have seeing the
> fruits.


Well there is a company actually, I wanna say it's Asus though I am not
100% sure as I don't remember the device's name to look it up, that is
coming out with a small portable linux device. It's wireless of course,
can do e-mail, word processing, spread sheets, video / audio playback,
etc. Things of that nature. It isn't a full blown PC or laptop but nor is
it intended to be. It's got the major advantage that it's small and far
easier portable than a laptop is but still larger than a PDA. I'll see if
I can find a link to it maybe later tonight.

So products like that are happening. But it takes 3rd party companies
using Linux for it to be happening.

--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

å›ã®äº‹æ€ã„出ã™æ—¥ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯
å›ã®äº‹å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸã¨ããŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰
 
Hi,

I should be Asus if my memory serves me right.

>But it takes 3rd party companies
> using Linux for it to be happening.


Yes, but IMHO, the difference is proactive vs. reactive.

"Stephan Rose" <nospam@spammer.com> wrote in message
news:kdKdnXYnUdcIi_HanZ2dnUVZ8sninZ2d@giganews.com...
> On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 05:11:20 -0800, xfile wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Allow me to share my two cents,
>>
>> I agree with you for everything and admire you for being one of the very
>> few who can sense the potential danger posed by competitions.
>>
>> Sadly but honestly, however, I personally don't think Linux can be a
>> serious threat any time soon (not even with Dell's support), and if they
>> miss the next 5-10 years, they will have no more chance. What BG
>> actually is doing at this time is to pave the path for the company for
>> the next 30-50 years. Hint: The major growth will not be in the states.
>> And he knows it very well that he cannot do the job as an official
>> representative of the company.
>>
>> So if Linux can't catch up soon enough, it will forever miss the chance.
>> Do I like to see that happen? Not at all! I am a supporter of market
>> economy, so by all means, I also support fair competitions for the
>> benefits of all.
>>
>> But why am I pessimistic about Linux's future? In short, technical
>> arrogance and ignorance. They simply refuse to believe that in the real
>> world, product and technology are only part of reasons for making a
>> product and company succeeded. There are reasons for companies at all
>> sizes need to hire and use professionals and talents other than
>> technical professionals. Excuse my ignorance but I haven't seen ONE
>> success story of any company in any industry which has only one
>> department - R&D department.
>>
>> BG understood this simple thing at early stage, so MS is not just
>> fighting the battle for each product (which nevertheless is important)
>> they also have well crafted business strategies that use each product to
>> support other products which ultimately provides a seamlessly integrated
>> "offer" to the customer. BG even publicly announced the company's
>> strategies during 90s and if any of its competitors had paid any
>> attention, the outcome would be different.
>>
>> What about Linux? As far as I can see, Linux has no business model nor
>> strategies but chasing after the company for a singular product offer.
>>
>> Do they have chance? I think so. The need is still there. For anyone
>> who is interested, search the net for "MiniTel". I know for a fact that
>> this M company once studied it intensively but abonded it for unknown
>> reason. However, the need of using a simple computing device for simple
>> works including surfing are there as it was once proved by this little
>> device.
>>
>> IMHO, Linux will never have any future if it is simply chasing after the
>> company for one product offer. It needs new breakthrough strategies for
>> new things, and that is what Apple has been doing in the past few years
>> (e.g. iPod, iphone, new Mac, etc.) and now finally have seeing the
>> fruits.

>
> Well there is a company actually, I wanna say it's Asus though I am not
> 100% sure as I don't remember the device's name to look it up, that is
> coming out with a small portable linux device. It's wireless of course,
> can do e-mail, word processing, spread sheets, video / audio playback,
> etc. Things of that nature. It isn't a full blown PC or laptop but nor is
> it intended to be. It's got the major advantage that it's small and far
> easier portable than a laptop is but still larger than a PDA. I'll see if
> I can find a link to it maybe later tonight.
>
> So products like that are happening. But it takes 3rd party companies
> using Linux for it to be happening.
>
> --
> Stephan
> 2003 Yamaha R6
>
> §g?¨Æ«ä?¥X?¤é???????
> §g?¨Æ§Ñ?????????
 
Back
Top