Norton Internet Security 2008 and Vista's Security Center

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howardavatar

After installing Norton Internet Security 2008 on my Vista Home Premium I
noticed the WSC is not detecting it at all. On There live chat they said
Microsoft can solve this one. So what can I do to find out why WSC is NOT
find NIS 2008?
TIA:)
 
What you might try is resetting WMI. I have had to do this several times in Vista, it seems like the SecCenter in Vista is buggy. What you do is this:

Click on Start---All Programs---Accessories and right click on Command Prompt.
Select "Run as Administrator"
When the cmd window pops up you should be in the /windows/system32 directory.
Type cd wbem
Type or paste the following:

net stop winmgmt

rmdir /s /q repository

net start winmgmt

Exit the command window and bring up Security Center. It will inform you that the service has been turned off so click on the button presented to turn it back on. After a few minutes the Repository will be rebuilt and hopefully it will see NIS 2008.

BTW, I also use NIS 2008 and loving it :)


"howardavatar" <howardavatar@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:486F0D62-E3CF-415D-AFEC-DD7D0D7AC88E@microsoft.com...
> After installing Norton Internet Security 2008 on my Vista Home Premium I
> noticed the WSC is not detecting it at all. On There live chat they said
> Microsoft can solve this one. So what can I do to find out why WSC is NOT
> find NIS 2008?
> TIA:)
 
On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 06:31:03 -0700, howardavatar wrote:

> After installing Norton Internet Security 2008 on my Vista Home Premium I
> noticed the WSC is not detecting it at all. On There live chat they said
> Microsoft can solve this one. So what can I do to find out why WSC is NOT
> find NIS 2008?

The retail version of Norton can play havoc with your pc. Uninstall it
using Norton's own uninstall tool
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/docid/2005033108162039
and get a refund :)
As suggested on the site, you may wish to print out the directions before
proceeding.
While Norton's removal tool usually gets the job done, you may also want to
go to:
http://www.snapfiles.com/get/winsockxpfix.html
and download a copy of winsockxpfix just in case. Rarely, the removal of
NIS breakes the networking components in XP to the point where internet
access is impossible. This little utility will fix it back up.
If the Norton removal tool doesn't work satisfactory use this:
Revo Uninstaller Freeware - Remove unwanted programs and traces easily
http://www.revouninstaller.com/
and/or
RegSeeker
http://www.hoverdesk.net/freeware.htm
RegSeeker will remove all associated detritus (registry keys,files and
folders) from any application. I found this application user friendly and
very effective but suggest *not* to use the 'Clean the Registry' option.
Click onto 'Find in registry' and in the 'Search for' box type *Norton*
The pertinent registry keys can then be safely deleted (just in case,
ensure that the 'Backup before deletion' is checked). Repeat the task by
typing in the Search for' box *Symantec*. You can then go on search and
remove associated files as well.
Then use NTREGOPT to compact the registry Follow instructions.
http://www.larshederer.homepage.t-online.de/erunt

Do not utilize more than one (1) real-time anti-virus scanning engine!
Disable the e-mail scanning function during installation (Custom
Installation on some AV apps.) as it provides no additional protection. In
fact, most of experts (incl. Norton) believe that scanning incoming and
outgoing mail causes e-mail file corruption.

Avira AntiVir® PersonalEdition Classic - Free
http://www.free-av.com/antivirus/allinonen.html

Free antivirus - avast! 4 Home Edition
http://www.avast.com/eng/avast_4_home.html
(Choose Custom Installation and under Resident
Protection, uncheck: Internet Mail and Outlook/Exchange.)

AVG Anti-Virus Free Edition
http://free.grisoft.com/

Kaspersky® Anti-Virus 7.0 - Not Free
http://www.kaspersky.com/homeuser

ESET NOD32 Antivirus - Not Free
http://www.eset.com/
Have you seen these "extra settings for NOD32"?
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=37509

On-demand AV application (add it to your arsenal and use it as a "second
opinion" av scanner).
BitDefender10 Free Edition
http://www.bitdefender.com/PRODUCT-14-en--BitDefender-8-Free-Edition.html

A-S applications (grab'em all).

The effectiveness of an individual A-S scanners can be wide-ranging and
oftentimes a collection of scanners is best. There isn't one software that
cleans and immunizes you against everything. That's why you need multiple
products to do the job i.e. overlap their coverage - one may catch what
another may miss.

SuperAntispyware - Free
http://www.superantispyware.com/superantispywarefreevspro.html

Ad-Aware - Free
http://www.lavasoftusa.com/products/ad_aware_free.php
http://www.download.com/3000-2144-10045910.html

Spybot Search & Destroy - Free
http://www.safer-networking.org/en/download/index.html

Windows Defender - Free
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/default.mspx
Interesting reading:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,136195/article.html
"...Windows Defender did excel in behavior-based protection, which detects
changes to key areas of the system without having to know anything about
the actual threat."

Some more useful applications:
Spyware Blaster - Free
http://www.javacoolsoftware.com/spywareblaster.html

Rootkit Revealer - Free
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysinternals/Utilities/RootkitRevealer.mspx

Crap Cleaner - Free
http://www.filehippo.com/download_ccleaner/
If Windows Defender is utilized go to Applications, under Utilities
uncheck "Windows Defender"

CW Shredder - Free
http://www.softpedia.com/get/Internet/Popup-Ad-Spyware-Blockers/CWShredder.shtml

You are not going to find anything better than the Vista FW and Vista in
itself due to the advanced features the FW and Vista are using.

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/columns/cableguy/cg0905.mspx
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/network/WFP.mspx

Jesper's Blog
http://msinfluentials.com/blogs/jesper/archive/2007/07/19/at-least-this-snake-oil-is-free.aspx
http://blogs.technet.com/jesper_johansson/archive/2006/05/01/426921.aspx

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/technetmag/issues/2007/06/VistaFirewall/default.aspx
"If you try to block outbound connections from a computer that’s already
compromised, how can you be sure that the computer is really doing what you
ask? The answer: you can’t. Outbound protection is security theater—it’s a
gimmick that only gives the impression of improving your security without
doing anything that actually does improve your security. This is why
outbound protection didn’t exist in the Windows XP firewall and why it
doesn’t exist in the Windows Vista™ firewall."

Vista Firewall Control
http://sphinx-soft.com/Vista/

Good luck :)
 
"The retail version of Norton can play havoc with your PC" What are you
basing this on, 2006-back? It is clear you haven't used '07-up. Stop the
bashing and try to help the poster. Other programs have messed SecCenter up
as well, either it is a bug or software writers haven't figured out to write
the uninstall routines right for Vista yet. I have had to do this several
times on different AV and firewall programs so it isn't Norton's fault.

BTW, the SymNRT is supposed to be used only if the add/remove fails or if
you want to clean up some more after a successful remove. It does NOT
replace add/remove and using it as so will cause problems on future installs
of other programs. Remove NIS via add/remove first and then run SymNRT.

As far as comparisons go, NAV beats KAV on every performance test except
bootup time:
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6600_7-6768133-1.html?tag=nl.e724

Also NAV has a higher detection rate than KAV and NOD32 as of the last test
at AV Comparatives:
http://www.av-comparatives.org/index.html?http://www.av-comparatives.org/seiten/comparatives.html

So you Norton bashers are going to have to find another victim. There are
user inputs out there that said that NIS '08 is even lighter than Symantec
Endpoint Protection 11 (the new corporate SAV) so that should tell you how
light Norton is now.



"Kayman" <kayman~nospam~@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:qomlf272eysg$.b6w5opoktjo0$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 06:31:03 -0700, howardavatar wrote:
>
>> After installing Norton Internet Security 2008 on my Vista Home Premium I
>> noticed the WSC is not detecting it at all. On There live chat they said
>> Microsoft can solve this one. So what can I do to find out why WSC is
>> NOT
>> find NIS 2008?
>
> The retail version of Norton can play havoc with your pc. Uninstall it
> using Norton's own uninstall tool
> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/docid/2005033108162039
> and get a refund :)
> As suggested on the site, you may wish to print out the directions before
> proceeding.
> While Norton's removal tool usually gets the job done, you may also want
> to
> go to:
> http://www.snapfiles.com/get/winsockxpfix.html
> and download a copy of winsockxpfix just in case. Rarely, the removal of
> NIS breakes the networking components in XP to the point where internet
> access is impossible. This little utility will fix it back up.
> If the Norton removal tool doesn't work satisfactory use this:
> Revo Uninstaller Freeware - Remove unwanted programs and traces easily
> http://www.revouninstaller.com/
> and/or
> RegSeeker
> http://www.hoverdesk.net/freeware.htm
> RegSeeker will remove all associated detritus (registry keys,files and
> folders) from any application. I found this application user friendly and
> very effective but suggest *not* to use the 'Clean the Registry' option.
> Click onto 'Find in registry' and in the 'Search for' box type *Norton*
> The pertinent registry keys can then be safely deleted (just in case,
> ensure that the 'Backup before deletion' is checked). Repeat the task by
> typing in the Search for' box *Symantec*. You can then go on search and
> remove associated files as well.
> Then use NTREGOPT to compact the registry Follow instructions.
> http://www.larshederer.homepage.t-online.de/erunt
>
> Do not utilize more than one (1) real-time anti-virus scanning engine!
> Disable the e-mail scanning function during installation (Custom
> Installation on some AV apps.) as it provides no additional protection. In
> fact, most of experts (incl. Norton) believe that scanning incoming and
> outgoing mail causes e-mail file corruption.
>
> Avira AntiVir® PersonalEdition Classic - Free
> http://www.free-av.com/antivirus/allinonen.html
>
> Free antivirus - avast! 4 Home Edition
> http://www.avast.com/eng/avast_4_home.html
> (Choose Custom Installation and under Resident
> Protection, uncheck: Internet Mail and Outlook/Exchange.)
>
> AVG Anti-Virus Free Edition
> http://free.grisoft.com/
>
> Kaspersky® Anti-Virus 7.0 - Not Free
> http://www.kaspersky.com/homeuser
>
> ESET NOD32 Antivirus - Not Free
> http://www.eset.com/
> Have you seen these "extra settings for NOD32"?
> http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=37509
>
> On-demand AV application (add it to your arsenal and use it as a "second
> opinion" av scanner).
> BitDefender10 Free Edition
> http://www.bitdefender.com/PRODUCT-14-en--BitDefender-8-Free-Edition.html
>
> A-S applications (grab'em all).
>
> The effectiveness of an individual A-S scanners can be wide-ranging and
> oftentimes a collection of scanners is best. There isn't one software that
> cleans and immunizes you against everything. That's why you need multiple
> products to do the job i.e. overlap their coverage - one may catch what
> another may miss.
>
> SuperAntispyware - Free
> http://www.superantispyware.com/superantispywarefreevspro.html
>
> Ad-Aware - Free
> http://www.lavasoftusa.com/products/ad_aware_free.php
> http://www.download.com/3000-2144-10045910.html
>
> Spybot Search & Destroy - Free
> http://www.safer-networking.org/en/download/index.html
>
> Windows Defender - Free
> http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/default.mspx
> Interesting reading:
> http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,136195/article.html
> "...Windows Defender did excel in behavior-based protection, which detects
> changes to key areas of the system without having to know anything about
> the actual threat."
>
> Some more useful applications:
> Spyware Blaster - Free
> http://www.javacoolsoftware.com/spywareblaster.html
>
> Rootkit Revealer - Free
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysinternals/Utilities/RootkitRevealer.mspx
>
> Crap Cleaner - Free
> http://www.filehippo.com/download_ccleaner/
> If Windows Defender is utilized go to Applications, under Utilities
> uncheck "Windows Defender"
>
> CW Shredder - Free
> http://www.softpedia.com/get/Internet/Popup-Ad-Spyware-Blockers/CWShredder.shtml
>
> You are not going to find anything better than the Vista FW and Vista in
> itself due to the advanced features the FW and Vista are using.
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/columns/cableguy/cg0905.mspx
> http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/network/WFP.mspx
>
> Jesper's Blog
> http://msinfluentials.com/blogs/jesper/archive/2007/07/19/at-least-this-snake-oil-is-free.aspx
> http://blogs.technet.com/jesper_johansson/archive/2006/05/01/426921.aspx
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/technetmag/issues/2007/06/VistaFirewall/default.aspx
> "If you try to block outbound connections from a computer that’s already
> compromised, how can you be sure that the computer is really doing what
> you
> ask? The answer: you can’t. Outbound protection is security theater—it’s a
> gimmick that only gives the impression of improving your security without
> doing anything that actually does improve your security. This is why
> outbound protection didn’t exist in the Windows XP firewall and why it
> doesn’t exist in the Windows Vista™ firewall."
>
> Vista Firewall Control
> http://sphinx-soft.com/Vista/
>
> Good luck :)
 
On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 18:00:15 -0500, midway wrote:

> "The retail version of Norton can play havoc with your PC" What are you
> basing this on, 2006-back? It is clear you haven't used '07-up. Stop the
> bashing and try to help the poster.

Bashing? It is clear you haven't comprehend my message. Read again!

> Other programs have messed SecCenter up as well, either it is a bug or software
> writers haven't figured out to write the uninstall routines right for Vista yet.
> I have had to do this several times on different AV and firewall programs so it
> isn't Norton's fault.

It is certainly not the fault of the makers of the OS!

<snipped irrelevant drivel>

> So you Norton bashers are going to have to find another victim. There are
> user inputs out there that said that NIS '08 is even lighter than Symantec
> Endpoint Protection 11 (the new corporate SAV) so that should tell you how
> light Norton is now.

Again, you do seem to have problems comprehending simple composed messages.

> "Kayman" <kayman~nospam~@operamail.com> wrote in message
> news:qomlf272eysg$.b6w5opoktjo0$.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 06:31:03 -0700, howardavatar wrote:
>>
>>> After installing Norton Internet Security 2008 on my Vista Home Premium I
>>> noticed the WSC is not detecting it at all. On There live chat they said
>>> Microsoft can solve this one. So what can I do to find out why WSC is
>>> NOT find NIS 2008?
>>
>> The retail version of Norton can play havoc with your pc...
--
 
Yes, yes. I have seen your posts in here (and others of your ilk)
proclaiming Norton is the source of all evil. And it is clear you know
nothing of Norton except maybe using it in the past when it was bloatware
because you didn't even know how to use SymNRT correctly.

And to comment on your "irrelevant drivel", you are aware that this is a
VISTA forum and of course the poster already has Windows Defender. And I
noticed you mentioned NIS breaking XP. It pretty much tells me you have all
this typed down nice and neat and stored somewhere ready to cut and paste it
when you see the word "Norton" (or any other AV you don't care for).

Go search in other security forums. You will notice that other people have
had this same problem with SecCenter even with the "irrevelant" AV's you
mentioned.

"Kayman" <kayman~nospam~@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:r83mohw425oz.1ju9ntdj16pev.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 18:00:15 -0500, midway wrote:
>
>> "The retail version of Norton can play havoc with your PC" What are you
>> basing this on, 2006-back? It is clear you haven't used '07-up. Stop
>> the
>> bashing and try to help the poster.
>
> Bashing? It is clear you haven't comprehend my message. Read again!
>
>> Other programs have messed SecCenter up as well, either it is a bug or
>> software
>> writers haven't figured out to write the uninstall routines right for
>> Vista yet.
>> I have had to do this several times on different AV and firewall programs
>> so it
>> isn't Norton's fault.
>
> It is certainly not the fault of the makers of the OS!
>
> <snipped irrelevant drivel>
>
>> So you Norton bashers are going to have to find another victim. There
>> are
>> user inputs out there that said that NIS '08 is even lighter than
>> Symantec
>> Endpoint Protection 11 (the new corporate SAV) so that should tell you
>> how
>> light Norton is now.
>
> Again, you do seem to have problems comprehending simple composed
> messages.
>
>> "Kayman" <kayman~nospam~@operamail.com> wrote in message
>> news:qomlf272eysg$.b6w5opoktjo0$.dlg@40tude.net...
>>> On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 06:31:03 -0700, howardavatar wrote:
>>>
>>>> After installing Norton Internet Security 2008 on my Vista Home Premium
>>>> I
>>>> noticed the WSC is not detecting it at all. On There live chat they
>>>> said
>>>> Microsoft can solve this one. So what can I do to find out why WSC is
>>>> NOT find NIS 2008?
>>>
>>> The retail version of Norton can play havoc with your pc...
> --
 
Yes, yes. I have seen your posts in here (and others of your ilk)
proclaiming Norton is the source of all evil. And it is clear you know
nothing of Norton except maybe using it in the past when it was bloatware
because you didn't even know how to use SymNRT correctly.

And to comment on your "irrelevant drivel", you are aware that this is a
VISTA forum and of course the poster already has Windows Defender. And I
noticed you mentioned NIS breaking XP. It pretty much tells me you have all
this typed down nice and neat and stored somewhere ready to cut and paste it
when you see the word "Norton" (or any other AV you don't care for).

Go search in other security forums. You will notice that other people have
had this same problem with SecCenter even with the "irrevelant" AV's you
mentioned.

"Kayman" <kayman~nospam~@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:r83mohw425oz.1ju9ntdj16pev.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 18:00:15 -0500, midway wrote:
>
>> "The retail version of Norton can play havoc with your PC" What are you
>> basing this on, 2006-back? It is clear you haven't used '07-up. Stop
>> the
>> bashing and try to help the poster.
>
> Bashing? It is clear you haven't comprehend my message. Read again!
>
>> Other programs have messed SecCenter up as well, either it is a bug or
>> software
>> writers haven't figured out to write the uninstall routines right for
>> Vista yet.
>> I have had to do this several times on different AV and firewall programs
>> so it
>> isn't Norton's fault.
>
> It is certainly not the fault of the makers of the OS!
>
> <snipped irrelevant drivel>
>
>> So you Norton bashers are going to have to find another victim. There
>> are
>> user inputs out there that said that NIS '08 is even lighter than
>> Symantec
>> Endpoint Protection 11 (the new corporate SAV) so that should tell you
>> how
>> light Norton is now.
>
> Again, you do seem to have problems comprehending simple composed
> messages.
>
>> "Kayman" <kayman~nospam~@operamail.com> wrote in message
>> news:qomlf272eysg$.b6w5opoktjo0$.dlg@40tude.net...
>>> On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 06:31:03 -0700, howardavatar wrote:
>>>
>>>> After installing Norton Internet Security 2008 on my Vista Home Premium
>>>> I
>>>> noticed the WSC is not detecting it at all. On There live chat they
>>>> said
>>>> Microsoft can solve this one. So what can I do to find out why WSC is
>>>> NOT find NIS 2008?
>>>
>>> The retail version of Norton can play havoc with your pc...
> --
 
On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 22:20:39 -0500, midway wrote:

> Yes, yes. I have seen your posts in here...

You may have seen it but you didn't comprehend.

> proclaiming Norton is the source of all evil.

Huh?

> And it is clear you know nothing of Norton except maybe using it in the past
> when it was bloatware because you didn't even know how to use SymNRT correctly.

Instead of ranting try to educate us, how about it?

> And to comment on your "irrelevant drivel"...

You mean to comment on YOUR drivel!

> ...you are aware that this is a VISTA forum...

Yes, I am.

> and of course the poster already has Windows Defender.

Good.

> And I noticed you mentioned NIS breaking XP.

Really, did I?

> It pretty much tells me you have all this typed down nice and neat and stored
> somewhere ready to cut and paste it when you see the word "Norton" (or any other
> AV you don't care for).

Yes and no - "care for" is not the issue Efficiency is! (Look up the word
in the dictionary).

> Go search in other security forums.

No need The retail version of Norton is a sorry apps.

> You will notice that other people have had this same problem with SecCenter even
> with the "irrevelant" AV's you mentioned.

Oh well.
--
 
I do comprehend more than you know especially by your responses. Such a
shame...



I did mention the proper use of SymNRT. It appears that you haven't
comprehended what I said. Of course prejudice can cause blindness in these
cases. You are no different than the others. Not important enough for me
to waste any more time on.



And I didn't need a "crib sheet" for this. I "rant" in real time.





"Kayman" <kayman~nospam~@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:frtgm9ti9s4c.3oyvnkv14upo.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 22:20:39 -0500, midway wrote:
>
>> Yes, yes. I have seen your posts in here...
>
> You may have seen it but you didn't comprehend.
>
>> proclaiming Norton is the source of all evil.
>
> Huh?
>
>> And it is clear you know nothing of Norton except maybe using it in the
>> past
>> when it was bloatware because you didn't even know how to use SymNRT
>> correctly.
>
> Instead of ranting try to educate us, how about it?
>
>> And to comment on your "irrelevant drivel"...
>
> You mean to comment on YOUR drivel!
>
>> ...you are aware that this is a VISTA forum...
>
> Yes, I am.
>
>> and of course the poster already has Windows Defender.
>
> Good.
>
>> And I noticed you mentioned NIS breaking XP.
>
> Really, did I?
>
>> It pretty much tells me you have all this typed down nice and neat and
>> stored
>> somewhere ready to cut and paste it when you see the word "Norton" (or
>> any other
>> AV you don't care for).
>
> Yes and no - "care for" is not the issue Efficiency is! (Look up the word
> in the dictionary).
>
>> Go search in other security forums.
>
> No need The retail version of Norton is a sorry apps.
>
>> You will notice that other people have had this same problem with
>> SecCenter even
>> with the "irrevelant" AV's you mentioned.
>
> Oh well.
> --
 
On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 23:27:37 -0500, midway wrote:

> I do comprehend more than you know especially by your responses.

Really :)

> Such a shame...

Elaborate, please.

> I did mention the proper use of SymNRT. It appears that you haven't
> comprehended what I said.

You're right, I haven't But reiterate: "Instead of ranting try to educate
us, how about it?"

> Of course prejudice can cause blindness in these cases.

Are representing any AV software maker by any chance?

> You are no different than the others.

Yes, realistically different :)

> Not important enough for me to waste any more time on.

Now, that is a relief.

> And I didn't need a "crib sheet" for this.

Good on you.

> I "rant" in real time.

'atta boy! Bye :)
--
 
Midway - I tried this approach to the fixing the WMI and WSC and the buggy
problem with NIS 2008. When the computer (running WinVista Home Premium)
boots up, I still get the message from NIS that the antivirus is still not
active, even though the NIS window shows that portion of the product is
active. The computer is for a "non-techie" who gets very easily freaked out
when they get any kind of error message outside of "normal" software updates.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! TIA!!


"midway" wrote:

> What you might try is resetting WMI. I have had to do this several times
> in Vista, it seems like the SecCenter in Vista is buggy. What you do is
> this:
>
> Click on Start---All Programs---Accessories and right click on Command
> Prompt.
> Select "Run as Administrator"
> When the cmd window pops up you should be in the /windows/system32
> directory.
> Type cd wbem
> Type or paste the following:
>
> net stop winmgmt
>
> rmdir /s /q repository
>
> net start winmgmt
>
> Exit the command window and bring up Security Center. It will inform you
> that the service has been turned off so click on the button presented to
> turn it back on. After a few minutes the Repository will be rebuilt and
> hopefully it will see NIS 2008.
>
> BTW, I also use NIS 2008 and loving it :)
>
>
> "howardavatar" <howardavatar@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:486F0D62-E3CF-415D-AFEC-DD7D0D7AC88E@microsoft.com...
> > After installing Norton Internet Security 2008 on my Vista Home Premium
> I
> > noticed the WSC is not detecting it at all. On There live chat they
> said
> > Microsoft can solve this one. So what can I do to find out why WSC is
> NOT
> > find NIS 2008?
> > TIA:)
>
 
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