Need advice for best approach for root cause analysis

  • Thread starter Thread starter Greersome
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Greersome

I'm hoping someone here can help guide me in my search for the root
cause of a chronic windows XP problem I have.

Periodically after powering up after hibernation, my laptop becomes so
sluggish that even running diagnostic tools is painfully time
consuming.

I imagine that some application somewhere is hogging some resource,
but all my efforts to investigate have been fruitless. I've looked at
the event logging for tell tale signs or trends I can investigate.
I've used an application called Process Explorer to try to see what
app is causing the problem, I've tried using task manager to see which
app/process is using too much memory or cpu resources.

Nothing seems to stand out as a problem.

Can anyone recommend a course of action, diagnostic tool, or any other
method I could use to find the root cause of these annoying and
frustrating performance problems?

Thanks,
J
 
Greersome wrote:
> I'm hoping someone here can help guide me in my search for the root
> cause of a chronic windows XP problem I have.
>
> Periodically after powering up after hibernation, my laptop becomes
> so sluggish that even running diagnostic tools is painfully time
> consuming.
>
> I imagine that some application somewhere is hogging some resource,
> but all my efforts to investigate have been fruitless. I've looked
> at the event logging for tell tale signs or trends I can
> investigate. I've used an application called Process Explorer to
> try to see what app is causing the problem, I've tried using task
> manager to see which app/process is using too much memory or cpu
> resources.
>
> Nothing seems to stand out as a problem.
>
> Can anyone recommend a course of action, diagnostic tool, or any
> other method I could use to find the root cause of these annoying
> and frustrating performance problems?


Multi-posted instead of cross-posted (limiting the usefulness and quite
possibly the value/possibility of responses) and not really even close to
enough information.

You essentially have *walked* into several different mechanic shops and
explained that your car has a mechanical issue and nothing you have tried
has resulted in you figuring out what is wrong or any improvement occurring.
It would be better if you called each of these mechanic shops with details
such as make/model, etc.

In this case - you could have cross-posted (putting your post in the same
groups you already have but having actually only sent it once and those
replying to it by default would reply to all the groups at once too) and
given details such as the specific Windows XP version (Home, Professional,
Media Center, TabletPC, x64...) and service pack level (RTM, SP1, SP2) and
more specifics on the trouble and what you have tried yourself so one might
have an idea of your technical expertise and ability to actively search and
follow directions you find related to solving your issues.

- Have you made sure you have the latest hardware device drivers for each
device? Straight from the manufacturer - not Windows Updates?
- Is your Windows XP OS fully updated with security patches?
- What happened between it working and not working or has this been
consistent since purchase?
- Have you contacted the support for the laptop manufacturer and what did
they say?
- What tools/methods have you utilized to help diagnose the issues?

The more information you give - the better chance you have of finding
someone helping you blindly like this with the right steps...

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
 
for me the best approach is
the process of elimination.

barring any faulty hardware
i will offer a simple way
to check out the software
aspect.


if you boot into safemode
you will load only windows
system files and exclude
third party software.

if windows functions
perfectly in safemode
then this is a clue and
strongly suggests that
the operating system
is not corrupted.

this clue also suggests
that the reason that windows
is not functional in normal
mode is because a third party
software or a service
is causing havoc for
your system.

see 1,2 and 3:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/315222

on the other hand
if windows does
not function well in
safemode, then this
is a clue as well.

also, test the system
in safemode w/networking.

in this mode the modem
will be allowed to function.

while in safemode and
as a precaution, you might
want to begin the process
of preserving your personal
files and copy them off the
harddrive or partition.


--

db ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·..><)))º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><)))º>¸.
><)))º>·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><)))º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><)))º>



..


"Greersome" <joseph.greer@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:30858d81-4c89-4db2-83c4-88be2968c487@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> I'm hoping someone here can help guide me in my search for the root
> cause of a chronic windows XP problem I have.
>
> Periodically after powering up after hibernation, my laptop becomes so
> sluggish that even running diagnostic tools is painfully time
> consuming.
>
> I imagine that some application somewhere is hogging some resource,
> but all my efforts to investigate have been fruitless. I've looked at
> the event logging for tell tale signs or trends I can investigate.
> I've used an application called Process Explorer to try to see what
> app is causing the problem, I've tried using task manager to see which
> app/process is using too much memory or cpu resources.
>
> Nothing seems to stand out as a problem.
>
> Can anyone recommend a course of action, diagnostic tool, or any other
> method I could use to find the root cause of these annoying and
> frustrating performance problems?
>
> Thanks,
> J
 
Greersome wrote:
> I'm hoping someone here can help guide me in my search for the root
> cause of a chronic windows XP problem I have.
>
> Periodically after powering up after hibernation, my laptop becomes
> so sluggish that even running diagnostic tools is painfully time
> consuming.
>
> I imagine that some application somewhere is hogging some resource,
> but all my efforts to investigate have been fruitless. I've looked
> at the event logging for tell tale signs or trends I can
> investigate. I've used an application called Process Explorer to
> try to see what app is causing the problem, I've tried using task
> manager to see which app/process is using too much memory or cpu
> resources.
> Nothing seems to stand out as a problem.
>
> Can anyone recommend a course of action, diagnostic tool, or any
> other method I could use to find the root cause of these annoying
> and frustrating performance problems?


Shenan Stanley wrote:
> Multi-posted instead of cross-posted (limiting the usefulness and
> quite possibly the value/possibility of responses) and not really
> even close to enough information.
>
> You essentially have *walked* into several different mechanic shops
> and explained that your car has a mechanical issue and nothing you
> have tried has resulted in you figuring out what is wrong or any
> improvement occurring. It would be better if you called each of
> these mechanic shops with details such as make/model, etc.
>
> In this case - you could have cross-posted (putting your post in
> the same groups you already have but having actually only sent it
> once and those replying to it by default would reply to all the
> groups at once too) and given details such as the specific Windows
> XP version (Home, Professional, Media Center, TabletPC, x64...) and
> service pack level (RTM, SP1, SP2) and more specifics on the
> trouble and what you have tried yourself so one might have an idea
> of your technical expertise and ability to actively search and
> follow directions you find related to solving your issues.
> - Have you made sure you have the latest hardware device drivers
> for each device? Straight from the manufacturer - not Windows
> Updates? - Is your Windows XP OS fully updated with security patches?
> - What happened between it working and not working or has this been
> consistent since purchase?
> - Have you contacted the support for the laptop manufacturer and
> what did they say?
> - What tools/methods have you utilized to help diagnose the issues?
>
> The more information you give - the better chance you have of
> finding someone helping you blindly like this with the right
> steps...


Greersome wrote:
> With all due respects, I've requested recommendations for ways to
> identify applications and processes which are hogging resources or
> approaches to identify which resources are being over taxed. I've
> also asked for any recommendations for tools to help me in this
> investigation. You've offered none of these, thank you.
>
> My device drivers are all of the latest version. I'm running SP2, I
> use the latest version of zonealarm security suite, I have all the
> latest patches and fixes.
>
> This information is irrelevant to the question. My question focuses
> on finding a tool that will help me identify which application is
> causing the computer to hang. My question is NOT asking someone
> else to identify the problem for me but to allow me to find it for
> myself.


It is relevant. The tools to diagnose what problem you are experiencing may
well depend on what hardware you have (AMD, INTEL, if the motherboard
manufacturer or hard disk drive manufacturer has diagnostic utilities,
etc...), what OS and patch level you are at, what third party software you
already have and what your computer troubleshooting experience and
understanding level is at.

Whether or not you want someone to find the solution to the specific problem
you are looking for - someone would need to know more information than you
originally gave in order to properly point you to the specific tools you
might be able to utilize to figure it out on your own.

Also - if you give the problem and what you have tried in detail and someone
solves it for you - they are likely to tell you how (or might if you ask)
and then you know what they did. It's not a bad thing to be given an answer
and you - unless I don't know something - can ask for more information past
that point and learn how they troubleshot that problem.

Basic troubleshooting is always the same. First figure out what changed
between things working and things not working as expected. Eliminate all
those causes. Research all things left one-by-one (software packages,
hardware, etc) to see if anyone else has reported these problems. Eliminate
things you even have a slightest inkling might cause the issues. Sometimes
it will turn out to be something you wouldn't have guessed - ever. Like a
power supply issue when that doesn't even make initial sense.

You can use applications like Process Explorer and such to figure out what
is going on. You can create another user and see if the other user has the
same trouble as the first to eliminate profile issues. Set your BIOS
settings to Default and/or High Performance settings. Check for BIOS
updates, hardware driver updates, software package updates. Sometimes what
you are looking for seems like it would have no connection.

Troubleshooting does not depend on some magical tool. There is no single
tool that can troubleshoot every problem. Just going through the basics
that apply to ALL troubleshooting (whether it be a computer or a leaky roof)
usually leads to the best answer.

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
 
I hear you on the safe mode.

The problem goes away after a reboot. The system always runs fine
after that whether running in safe mode or in normal mode.

As you suggest, it's more than likely a third party application.

My current approach is to run Process Explorer and try to see what
applications are doing what. The problem is that sometimes, the
system's slowness causes long waits before Process Explorer can even
be displayed. It's almost as if the system goes into a wait state for
a set amount of time, then frees up resources for a few seconds, then
goes back into this locked state.

Restarting eliminates the problem and therefore also eliminates the
ability to look at it. Kind of a Schroedinger's Cat problem.

Some specific questions I might have would be:
1. What in event viewer should I be looking for that may suggest
where to look further?
2. Is there a tool you would recommend that I could run in the
background I could analyze after restarting?
3. If I am lucky enough to get Process explorer to start, how can I
tell which process is tying up which process that is causing all the
others to wait? I've used the tool a lot, but I'm not as familiar
with the dependency tree, what all the processes and dlls do, etc.

Thanks in advance.
 
yeh, unfortunately
there are simply too
many variables that
can cause the issue you
are having.

perhaps going into
the services tab inside
msconfig is one option.

go to services tab and
check the box to hide
microsofts and what is
left on the list i would
simply disable them.

similarly simply disable
your startups as well -
at least during this analysis.

then reboot and see if this
helps. if not, then at
least you have eliminated
some of the factors.

another is to ensure that
your virtual memory is
not out of proportion. if
it is too small or too large
it will cause performance
degradation.

another factor is that there
is proprietary software for
laptops. i had one called
launch manager which
pre programs those itty buttons
to open email, etc. and which
i never use. i uninstalled it
and saw that my fast laptop
became faster.

something else that wouldn't
hurt to try is to run a software
called "hijackthis"
and simply remove all the
findings it produces.


--

db ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·..><)))º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><)))º>¸.
><)))º>·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><)))º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><)))º>



..


"Greersome" <joseph.greer@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0d264c15-2d43-47c1-9047-b978251607b0@o6g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>I hear you on the safe mode.
>
> The problem goes away after a reboot. The system always runs fine
> after that whether running in safe mode or in normal mode.
>
> As you suggest, it's more than likely a third party application.
>
> My current approach is to run Process Explorer and try to see what
> applications are doing what. The problem is that sometimes, the
> system's slowness causes long waits before Process Explorer can even
> be displayed. It's almost as if the system goes into a wait state for
> a set amount of time, then frees up resources for a few seconds, then
> goes back into this locked state.
>
> Restarting eliminates the problem and therefore also eliminates the
> ability to look at it. Kind of a Schroedinger's Cat problem.
>
> Some specific questions I might have would be:
> 1. What in event viewer should I be looking for that may suggest
> where to look further?
> 2. Is there a tool you would recommend that I could run in the
> background I could analyze after restarting?
> 3. If I am lucky enough to get Process explorer to start, how can I
> tell which process is tying up which process that is causing all the
> others to wait? I've used the tool a lot, but I'm not as familiar
> with the dependency tree, what all the processes and dlls do, etc.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
 
I've heard of hijackthis and used it a long time ago, but the output
wasn't that helpful to me. I'll take a second look.

The launcher you mentioned is on my laptop too. I run a sony vaio VGN-
S560P. I don't reboot often and just rely on hibernating. Many
times, when powering up after hibernating, I see these problems.

They often manifest in the Wi-Fi connection failing to connect. I've
tried to find a process I could re-start to resolve this problem, but
I believe this is merely a symptom of the larger hanging problem.

The little blue buttons you mentioned previously also fail after a
while. Like the volume control. Wonder if it's that launcher app
that would need to be restarted.

Again, my thought is that a resource which is not multi-threaded or
which does not have enough threads is being used by an application
that is waiting for something else to time out. Once the timeout
completes, the resource is freed up but I imagine the offending
application/process tries again and again and again. The root of the
problem must be something is not responding.

Is there a way to see in process explorer which applications are not
responding and what they are dependent on and which of those processes
are not responding?

Curious.....
 
a failure with hardware
is the other factor
that can contribute to poor
responsiveness.

if you suspect the wi-fi,
then it can either be a
problem with the software
or hardware installed on
the laptop "or" it could
very well be the wireless
modem.


the best thing to do
is to disable or uninstall
the drivers and see
if an improvement is
noted.

in regards to seeing
which program is
unresponsive via
the process explorer,
i think this may not
be possible.

the test would be when
the program has started,
then determine whether
it is or is not responsive
on the desktop.

there is however, third
party programs that provide
details for the processes.

something like process explorer
and taskinfo can provide a lot
of details for each process -
keeping in mind that these
explorers can become
unresponsive as well

further, i don't think you
clarified whether windows
was functional in safemode
or not. a safemode status
would suggest whether or
not windows system
files are corrupt and the
cause of the headache.

as mentioned there are too
many variables. my final
suggestion would simply
be too backup your personal
files onto a cd and bring back
your laptop to its factory settings.

if after you have attempted to
repair the o.s. with a windows cd or
restored the laptop to its factory
settings you still encounter problems,
then clearly there is faulty hardware
involved.
--

db ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·..><)))º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><)))º>¸.
><)))º>·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><)))º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><)))º>



..


"Greersome" <joseph.greer@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9b58ac54-8d2c-424a-814e-d7a7622d10c7@n20g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> I've heard of hijackthis and used it a long time ago, but the output
> wasn't that helpful to me. I'll take a second look.
>
> The launcher you mentioned is on my laptop too. I run a sony vaio VGN-
> S560P. I don't reboot often and just rely on hibernating. Many
> times, when powering up after hibernating, I see these problems.
>
> They often manifest in the Wi-Fi connection failing to connect. I've
> tried to find a process I could re-start to resolve this problem, but
> I believe this is merely a symptom of the larger hanging problem.
>
> The little blue buttons you mentioned previously also fail after a
> while. Like the volume control. Wonder if it's that launcher app
> that would need to be restarted.
>
> Again, my thought is that a resource which is not multi-threaded or
> which does not have enough threads is being used by an application
> that is waiting for something else to time out. Once the timeout
> completes, the resource is freed up but I imagine the offending
> application/process tries again and again and again. The root of the
> problem must be something is not responding.
>
> Is there a way to see in process explorer which applications are not
> responding and what they are dependent on and which of those processes
> are not responding?
>
> Curious.....
 
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