Is dual booting worthwile?

[Louis_]

Hello! I have recently dual booted my laptop's orignal Windows 8 with Ubuntu - safe to say I'm a total convert.

So I was messing about with flavours of Ubuntu (currently using Gnome) and as expected when messing about with stuff you don't understand - I wiped my laptop. All except the Ubuntu OS. Which is fine - everything is backed up.
The only way I can get Windows 8 back on my laptop is to do a system recovery (since I didn't directly buy Windows 8 ) which will remove the Ubuntu OS. I could do this, then reinstall Ubuntu which would work fine, but I'm now thinking if there is any point at all in having Windows 8 dual booted with Ubuntu?

Are there any genuine benefits of having both? Or any benefits of Windows over Linux - enough so to warrant dual booting?

 

[Kick]

Dual booting a Linux and a Windows operating system does have some advantages. The most important is the capability it provides to rescue data and move it to a secure external device should a reinstallation be necessary. An alternative is to use a Live Linux disc to boot a Microsoft operating system computer but there are obvious limitations regarding saving changes to the Linux disc unless you use a Puppy Linux live disc. The latter allows you to save changes as long as the disc on which the iso file is burnt is not closed - you also have the option of setting up a 'save' file on the hard drive which speeds up future booting of Puppy. Linux running from the hard drive, as in a dual boot set up, is speedier than running from say DVD although the compromise you get with Puppy is an effective alternative. I dual boot my XP Pro desktop with Linux Puppy Precise but use a live DVD on my Windows 7 desktop.

It's easy to be wise after the event, but the problem regarding Windows 8 would have been easily resolved by creating a backup image file. I have used successfully several times a free version of a program called Macrium Reflect to rescue both XP and Puppy Precise on my dual boot system. I'm not sure that the program works with 64 bit operating systems or with Windows 8 but there are alternatives that do. You create a live boot rescue disc from the program the first time you use it and store it safely for a possible emergency. You then create backup images of individual or all partitions and store them securely on an external device such as a USB hard drive. Should an emergency arise, boot the system from the emergency disc, connect the external device and so on. So once you have got your system recovered, it may be wise to consider partition image backups to ease future problems.

 

[Rich-M]

Macrium Reflect very definitely works with 64 bit versions and is slowly becoming a very important software program as Acroniis continues to slide.
There are actually 2 rescue cds one of which is a normal Linux Rescue Disk and the other is a Windows PE Rescue Disk. I have no idea if Macrium can copy a Linux system to make an image file though I see no reason why it cannot as it is Linux based itself.

As for saving files from Live-cds, most of them would save to the system hard drive regardless of os type and I would not look to save to a system cd or dvd. Puppy Linux was a lot of fun being a small interface but packed with a lot of useful things. Where linux excels actually is in running really old hardware where Windows is just too cumbersome while Linux is light weight and robust and you can get great life out of something you would otherwise throw away.

On a normal system, you can do email and search the internet so much more quickly than you can in Windows the real problem is in selection and availability of software as I see it.

 

[Kick]

Hi Rich,

I realise that you can save files from the live Linux disc to hard drives and external media - what I meant was that you cannot normally save the changes to settings that you make while runningthe live disc. For example, as you know, we Brits have a slightly different keyboard arrangement from you and most, if not all, Linux systems have the US keyboard layout by default. Changing the keyboard layout is simple enough but the changes are not retained by the live disc, except in the case of Puppy versions, therefore you may need to make the setting changes every time you use the live disc.

Macrium Reflect does copy an image of a Linux partition very successfully - while I was experimenting with Puppy on my dual boot system I frequently locked up Puppy and had to use Macrium Reflect to rescue the situation. (Of course, with Puppy Linux frugal installations, you can back up the *.2fs file which is located in the Linux partition and rescue the situation by replacing the corrupt version with the latest working version.

I've always used the simpler Linux based rescue CD option for Macrium Reflect - it seemed far less hassle to create and works successfully for restoring both Windows and Linux. The Windows PE versioncontains additional tools so provides more options for the Windows user but I have never tried it.

Regarding software for Linux: most of the everyday application types used in Windows have their Linux equivalents. There are several office suites for example and they are compatible with most Microsoft Office file types. They may lack some of the extras but the average user won't miss those. Many of the freeware applications for Windows have a Linux version too, the VLC media player is a notable example but there are many more including Firefox, Thunderbird, Chrome, The Gimp etc.

The main problem with Linux as I see it is that suitable drivers for peripherals may not be available. Luckily I found a driver for my Canon IP4300 printer but not for my Canon 4200F scanner. Some manufacturers are more flexible over drivers than Canon so it is worth checking when purchasing new peripherals. Fortunately there seems to be less of a problem over key drivers such as video/graphics, sound, ethernet etc. and most of these devices are recognized immediately.

 

[Rich-M]

Hey Kick,
I never thought about the different keyboard. As for the Windows PE rescue disk, there was a time with the new UEFI bios where they did not work with Linux and the only rescue cd that worked was the Windows PE from Macrium. I would imagine they have corrected this by now but it saved me a few times a year ago.
The Windows PE disk which used to be so big it took a dvd and not a cd, has been cut down in size and today it boots as quickly as the Linux based cd so I still prefer that one.

You are right it was driver issues that finally ended my foray into Linux. Again I am sure they have rectified this but about 5 years ago wireless adapters were a nightmare in Linux and at the time I was working with Linux I only had 1 wire connection and everything else was wireless. That has all changed in my setup now but it was a real problem then.

The one product I have carried forward with is Gimp which I am a big user of today as there now are Windows versions. It will do most of what Photoshop does without the need to relearn it every time I open it up as I had to do with Photoshop since I didn't use it that often then. I think your Canon printer is one I had for years and years for photos and even today I still run a Canon Pixma for photos, just a newer one.

 

[Kick]

Hi Rich,
. I've not used wifi either with Windows or Linux. Until a few weeks ago, my adsl modem was a model without wifi - whether it was the result of an overnight thunderstorm or just a coincidence, the device was not working one morning. My ISP was quite good and I had a replacement up and running within 5 days. The replacement does have wifi but my two desktops are in the same room and linked by wired ethernet cables to adsl modem.

Good talking to you - we seem to have hijacked this thread, I hope other potential contributors aren't put off.

Regards, Kick.

 

[allheart55 (Cindy E)]

Not to worry, Kick. Any informative discussion is always a good discussion. I've been following this thread with interest. I have much less experience with Linux than you or Rich do and I love learning. That's what it's all about.

 

[Rich-M]

Yeah and besides the poster never came back, if they do then we stop and give them the reigns not to worry, I always watch for that kind of thing to happen!
Enjoyable thread for me as well....and Cindy is so right, we do all this to keep up just because we are in the industry doesn't mean we are born knowing everything.

 

[Rich-M]

Well it used to be that given a choice of wireless vs wired, the wired connection was always faster but actually today with wireless "N" that really is subject to change as full functioning "N" speeds will surpass wired connections then we turn and look at stability which is usually greater with wired so the choice becomes a toss up!

 

[Kick]

Cindy, I suspect I know no more about Linux than you. The beauty of using live discs is that you cannot really mess things up in the same way as is possible with an installed operating system so you can afford to experiment. I didn't set up my dual boot arrangement until a lot of experiment with various Linux versions. I tried various versions of Mint and Ubuntu before opting for Puppy Precise. Some of the later Linux versions will not boot on my elderly XP desktop - something to do with PAE compatibility which I don't really understand but I guess Rich does. One thing I did find with Puppy is that it is better with my external USB floppy drive than other Linux distributions or Windows XP and 7 come to that. With Puppy I can connect up the drive empty, load a floppy, mount the drive, carry out any disc operations, unmount the drive but leave it connected, remove the floppy., insert another, mount it and so on. With the other systems, a floppy disc must be in the drive when it is connected, then mounted etc. Then after unmounting, the unit needs to be unplugged from the USB socket before another floppy disc can be inserted, the disc drive connected and mounted. (I hope this makes sense - it's all a bit convoluted).

If you haven't tried Puppy Cindy, it's worth having a go because you can tinker with it and change settings which are retained on the live disc for next time. You can also create a special save folder on your hard drive the will speed up things on later runs.

Strange the original poster didn't come back - he doesn't know what he's missing.

Cheers, Kick

 

[AWS]

Live discs are the best way to learn Linux.For years I was a Nix guy. Interned at IBM on AS/400 and System/38. Of course once the borg know as Microsoft assimilated me Linux was only run on servers.

 

[allheart55 (Cindy E)]

I've only run Linux from a live CD enough to muddle my way around it. Other than that I have used it many times to pull data from an unbootable machine.

 

[Rich-M]

We had an Aussie as part of our Paltalk Group years ago who was a Puppy Linux fanatic and he introduced us to it. The best thing about it was the tiny footprint with so much versatility loaded in it. He also introduced me to Pc Linux which to this day I still think is the easiest version of Linux to learn on.
I have had linux machines off and on as well as dual boot situations because its a great way to salvage a pc you were threoing out and you see how Linux can run on an old pile of metal! I did well with Ubuntu also but the newer versions became so much tougher with hardware I went back to PC Linux. I don't really have the time to play with it any more, I wish I did as I bet there is so much more you can do now easily I struggled with. BTW I do remember using floppy usb drives in my ubunbtu pc without and shutting down to change disks.

 

[Intrepid]

The problem I've had with live disks is once I find a distro I'd like the use as soon as I convert and install the wireless drivers don't install because they are proprietary.

It really is a pain when you get dual boot setup and find out you have no network on the Linux side.

 

[Kick]

I don't use wifi so I am not familiar with the problem you have Intrepid. Of course one option is to have your dual boot system close enough to the router to connect via ethernet cable (I've never had connection problems with ethernet and Linux) but that is not always convenient, I know.

The beauty of the Puppy Linux distributions, unlike most if not all others, is that you can save the changes you make to settings in live disc operation so they will be there the next time you run the live disc. This means you can check out thoroughly what will work and what won't before you commit to any kind of installation, dual boot or otherwise. You may find this web page useful: http://www.wikihow.com/Set-up-a-Wireless-Network-in-Puppy-Linux.

 

[Rich-M]

Yeah wifi is the worst thing about using Linux