Fdisk vs WinXP

  • Thread starter Thread starter JethroUK©
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JethroUK©

I have a new machine that i need to partition/format and has no floppy
drive - Windows XP setup halts with a disc error asking me to run FDisk

On my previous machine using floppy i could partition & format without
windows at all (using MSDos commands)

I've read Microsoft article on creating partitions but they discuss using
floppy disc (which doesn't rely on windows) and using Windows which relies
on windows already being installed

They don't discuss how to create a partition (and format it) using windows
xp cd e.g. if you don't already have Windows XP installed and don't have a
floppy disk

Any clues?
 
JethroUK© <reply@the.board> wrote:
> I have a new machine that i need to partition/format and has no floppy
> drive - Windows XP setup halts with a disc error asking me to run
> FDisk
>
> On my previous machine using floppy i could partition & format without
> windows at all (using MSDos commands)
>
> I've read Microsoft article on creating partitions but they discuss
> using floppy disc (which doesn't rely on windows) and using Windows
> which relies on windows already being installed
>
> They don't discuss how to create a partition (and format it) using
> windows xp cd e.g. if you don't already have Windows XP installed and
> don't have a floppy disk
>
> Any clues?

IIRC, boot from the XP CD, run setup, delete the existing partition(s), and
then reboot.

You might check out
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/cleanxpinstall.html
 
"JethroUK©" <reply@the.board> wrote in message
news:0ncoi.111$gX5.101@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...
>I have a new machine that i need to partition/format and has no floppy
> drive - Windows XP setup halts with a disc error asking me to run FDisk
>
> On my previous machine using floppy i could partition & format without
> windows at all (using MSDos commands)
>
> I've read Microsoft article on creating partitions but they discuss using
> floppy disc (which doesn't rely on windows) and using Windows which relies
> on windows already being installed
>
> They don't discuss how to create a partition (and format it) using windows
> xp cd e.g. if you don't already have Windows XP installed and don't have a
> floppy disk
>
> Any clues?
>
>

You should start over and partition the drive using the Windows XP setup.
This page explains it better than I could here.
http://www.theeldergeek.com/hard_drives_03.htm

Mark
 
On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 00:24:28 GMT, "JethroUK©" <reply@the.board> wrote:

> I have a new machine that i need to partition/format and has no floppy
> drive - Windows XP setup halts with a disc error asking me to run FDisk
>
> On my previous machine using floppy i could partition & format without
> windows at all (using MSDos commands)
>
> I've read Microsoft article on creating partitions but they discuss using
> floppy disc (which doesn't rely on windows) and using Windows which relies
> on windows already being installed
>
> They don't discuss how to create a partition (and format it) using windows
> xp cd e.g. if you don't already have Windows XP installed and don't have a
> floppy disk


No floppy drive is required. You don't need to format the drive in
advance of installing Windows. Just boot from the Windows XP CD
(change the BIOS boot order if necessary to accomplish this) and
follow the prompts for a clean installation (delete the existing
partition by pressing "D" when prompted, then create a new one).

--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User
Please Reply to the Newsgroup
 
"JethroUK©" <reply@the.board> wrote in message
news:0ncoi.111$gX5.101@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...
>I have a new machine that i need to partition/format and has no floppy
> drive - Windows XP setup halts with a disc error asking me to run FDisk

That sounds like prevarication, or, at least, a fabrication based on some
facts.

>
> On my previous machine using floppy i could partition & format without
> windows at all (using MSDos commands)
>
> I've read Microsoft article on creating partitions but they discuss using
> floppy disc (which doesn't rely on windows) and using Windows which relies
> on windows already being installed
>
> They don't discuss how to create a partition (and format it) using windows
> xp cd e.g. if you don't already have Windows XP installed and don't have a
> floppy disk
>
> Any clues?
>
>

Put the install CD and boot from it... You tell us.
Dave
 
"JethroUK©" <reply@the.board> wrote in message
news:0ncoi.111$gX5.101@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...
>I have a new machine that i need to partition/format and has no floppy
> drive - Windows XP setup halts with a disc error asking me to run FDisk


Not possible, XP will not do this. Fdisk is not part of XP. What is the
actual error message?

> On my previous machine using floppy i could partition & format without
> windows at all (using MSDos commands)

The XP CD has these functions under other names, and Setup allows you to do
this as part of the routine.


> I've read Microsoft article on creating partitions but they discuss using
> floppy disc (which doesn't rely on windows) and using Windows which relies
> on windows already being installed

Perhaps if you read articles on XP, not W9x or DOS. All of this runs from
CD now.

> They don't discuss how to create a partition (and format it) using windows
> xp cd e.g. if you don't already have Windows XP installed and don't have a
> floppy disk
>
> Any clues?

Yes, pay attention to the screens when installing. Where you select the
destination disks, you can delete and recreate partitions and format them.

HTH
-pk
 
JethroUK© wrote:
> I have a new machine that i need to partition/format and has no floppy
> drive - Windows XP setup halts with a disc error asking me to run FDisk
>
> On my previous machine using floppy i could partition & format without
> windows at all (using MSDos commands)
>
> I've read Microsoft article on creating partitions but they discuss using
> floppy disc (which doesn't rely on windows) and using Windows which relies
> on windows already being installed
>
> They don't discuss how to create a partition (and format it) using windows
> xp cd e.g. if you don't already have Windows XP installed and don't have a
> floppy disk
>
> Any clues?
>
>


FDisk is an old MS-DOS utility that is neither available or needed
in WinXP. All legitimate WinXP installation CDs are bootable and have
the capability of deleting, creating, and formatting partitions.

Simply boot from the WinXP installation CD. You'll be offered the
opportunity to delete, create, and format partitions as part of the
installation process. (You may need to re-arrange the order of boot
devices in the PC's BIOS to boot from the CD.)

HOW TO Install Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;en-us;316941

http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/cleanxpinstall.html

http://www.webtree.ca/windowsxp/clean_install.htm



--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell
 
On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 09:19:06 -0600, Bruce Chambers
>JethroUK© wrote:

>> I have a new machine that i need to partition/format and has no floppy
>> drive - Windows XP setup halts with a disc error asking me to run FDisk

Details on that, please?

>FDisk is an old MS-DOS utility that is neither available or needed
>in WinXP. All legitimate WinXP installation CDs are bootable and have
>the capability of deleting, creating, and formatting partitions.

True, but there's more detail to this.

Firstly, XP's built-in partitioning tools are deficient, if you
require FAT32 volumes > 32G then you need better tools, which will
also do things like resize, slide, backup and copy volumes and
partitions. I use BING (www.bootitng.com) for this, without
installing it to HD (cancel the first dialog, go into Partition
Management) and this can be CDR or 1.44M booted.

The other side of the detail is that FDisk simply is not safe on
modern PCs, due to various capacity limits and bugs:
- Win98 and older: Can't "see" > 50G or so
- WinME and "fixed" 98: Can't "see" > 137G
- WinME and "fixed" 98: Can't enter values > 99 (G)



>-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
Hmmm... what was the *other* idea?
>-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
 
cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user) wrote:
>
> True, but there's more detail to this.
>
> Firstly, XP's built-in partitioning tools are deficient,....


That's arguable. They meet the purpose for which they were designed,
do they not?


> .... if you
> require FAT32 volumes > 32G then you need better tools,...


Who'd want to waste space on such an inferior file system? It's
utility is limited to external devices used to transfer data to and/or
from legacy Win9x systems. (I know, you don't like NTFS, but most of us
do.)


> which will
> also do things like resize, slide, backup and copy volumes and
> partitions.


Such capabilities are certainly nice, but useless during the initial OS
installation phase, which is the topic of this thread


> I use BING (www.bootitng.com) for this, without
> installing it to HD (cancel the first dialog, go into Partition
> Management) and this can be CDR or 1.44M booted.
>


As do I, but not during the initial istallation.


> The other side of the detail is that FDisk simply is not safe on
> modern PCs, due to various capacity limits and bugs:

Agreed.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell
 
On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 09:21:39 -0600, Bruce Chambers
>cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user) wrote:

>> True, but there's more detail to this.
>>
>> Firstly, XP's built-in partitioning tools are deficient,....
>
>That's arguable. They meet the purpose for which they were designed,
>do they not?

No, they do not. The OS feature set encompasses FAT32 volumes > 32G,
which the tools are incapable of creating.

More seriously, if you use the non-GUI Diskpart tool to create or
format such volumes, the process fails destructively:
- initiates the process
- continues for a long time (presumably, 32G)
- aborts with a "too large" error
- leaves the disk space broken (no Undo)

>> .... if you
>> require FAT32 volumes > 32G then you need better tools,...

> Who'd want to waste space on such an inferior file system? It's
>utility is limited to external devices used to transfer data to and/or
>from legacy Win9x systems.

How much space does it "waste", really? You'd gain more than it
"wastes" by curbing IE 6's insanely huge cache sizes (and with it, the
slack space bloat on those thousands of tiny files) as repeated for
each user account, than by going NTFS.

Even MS's own /kb coverage advises against such huge caches, with IE7
dow defaulting to 50M instead.

That's quite a U-turn in judgement, isn't it? So if MS pushes NTFS at
me, am I supposed to blindly trust that judgement, too?

>I know, you don't like NTFS, but most of us do.

Hey, have I suggested XP should limit maximum NTFS size to 32G? :-)

You may want to read this, BTW:

http://cquirke.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!C7DAB1E724AB8C23!188.entry?_c=BlogPart

>> which will also do things like resize, slide, backup and copy
>> volumes and partitions.

>Such capabilities are certainly nice, but useless during the initial OS
>installation phase, which is the topic of this thread

Maybe, maybe not. I'm not assuming everyone always uses "one big C:",
or that every new PC isn't afflicted with a "special" OEM partition
that you may want to backup, resize and/or move.

>> I use BING (www.bootitng.com) for this, without
>> installing it to HD (cancel the first dialog, go into Partition
>> Management) and this can be CDR or 1.44M booted.

>As do I, but not during the initial istallation.

I create my partitions and volumes with that before I do the
installation, then I tell the installation to shaddup and use what's
there. In the case of Vista, which I install as a .WIM image via
WinPE-booted ImageX, I first BING a 32G C: and then format this to
NTFS from WinPE. Converting to NTFS didn't work:

http://cquirke.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!C7DAB1E724AB8C23!194.entry

>> The other side of the detail is that FDisk simply is not safe on
>> modern PCs, due to various capacity limits and bugs:
>
>Agreed.

I resisted the move to non-native partitioning tools for a long time,
until XP, in fact. But when I tasted BING's ability to get things
done without FDisk's stupid "Verifying... (by puking junk into every
nth sector)" BS that one has to endure TWICE per custom-sized
partition created, I thought "good riddance, FDisk" ;-)



>---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
Proverbs Unscrolled #37
"Build it and they will come and break it"
>---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
 
cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user) wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Firstly, XP's built-in partitioning tools are deficient,....
>> That's arguable. They meet the purpose for which they were designed,
>> do they not?
>
> No, they do not. The OS feature set encompasses FAT32 volumes > 32G,
> which the tools are incapable of creating.
>

But *that* limitation is by deliberate design, so the tool meets its
given purpose.


> More seriously, if you use the non-GUI Diskpart tool to create or
> format such volumes, the process fails destructively:
> - initiates the process
> - continues for a long time (presumably, 32G)
> - aborts with a "too large" error
> - leaves the disk space broken (no Undo)
>

Again, this is irrelevant to the initial installation of the OS, and is
by design. Remember, FAT32 is a *legacy* file system, of little use
nowadays.




--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell
 
On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:44:09 -0600, Bruce Chambers
>cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user) wrote:

>>>> Firstly, XP's built-in partitioning tools are deficient,....
>>> That's arguable. They meet the purpose for which they were designed,
>>> do they not?
>>
>> No, they do not. The OS feature set encompasses FAT32 volumes > 32G,
>> which the tools are incapable of creating.

>
>But *that* limitation is by deliberate design, so the tool meets its
>given purpose.

Well, MS trying to force us to use a doomed file system with no data
recovery tools is a pretty poor design.

>> More seriously, if you use the non-GUI Diskpart tool to create or
>> format such volumes, the process fails destructively:
>> - initiates the process
>> - continues for a long time (presumably, 32G)
>> - aborts with a "too large" error
>> - leaves the disk space broken (no Undo)
>
>Again, this is irrelevant to the initial installation of the OS, and is
>by design.

"By design" would check the size FIRST, before puking all over it for
several minutes, and stop with an error.

Are you really telling me they deliberately designed this mess to
destroy whatever was there, waste time, and leave you with porridge?

>Remember, FAT32 is a *legacy* file system, of little use nowadays.

It's very useful nowdays, as is FAT16 if it comes to that. Each file
system has its strengths and weaknesses. If my first concern is
recoverability, as opposed to locking out unauthorised access, and I
don't need files > 2G or 4G in size, then NTFS isn't my best choice.

You didn't care to respond the article link, which is a case in point.



>---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
On the 'net, *everyone* can hear you scream
>---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
 
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