160 Gb drive in a removable caddy give "disk error press ctrl alt del" on boot

  • Thread starter Thread starter neil
  • Start date Start date
Meebers:
Thanks. Haven't seen one of those. Interesting.

Actually we've been working nearly exclusively with SATA HDDs over the past
couple of years so of course we don't have the PATA/IDE jumpering issues,
but this is the first I've heard of a mobile rack designed for PATA HDDs
containing jumper connectors. We have come across and worked with various
Vantec PATA mobile racks in the past but I've never encountered one with
jumper connections on the rack itself.

Would you be good enough to inform me of the model number of that device so
that I could get some more detailed info on it? Thanks.
Anna


"Meebers" <justme@idontkno.com> wrote in message
news:uGgaRWFNIHA.4272@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>I have a couple in use...it is called ez-swap by vantec. operation is
>simple, the case has a dip switch arrangement on the outside that allows
>you to select m/s/cs. on the inside there are 3 pair of wire connectors
>(2pin) that you plug into the normal connections on the HDD. Perhaps a
>little bit easier then taking off the lid and changing the jumper pin/plug?
>


> "Anna" <myname@myisp.net> wrote in message
> news:uTa8LRENIHA.6108@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Dave:
>> That's interesting. I've worked with dozens of different makes & models
>> of mobile racks over a fairly long period of years and I've never come
>> across one with jumper selectors on the rack itself. A most unusual
>> arrangement to say the least. Could you let me know the make & model of
>> such a unit? Thanks.
>> Anna
>>
>>
>> "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
>> news:%23DnZUZDNIHA.1168@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>A few bay mounted ide hard drive enclosures I've used have a jumper(s) as
>>>part of the enclosure. The ide hard drive must be set master or slave,
>>>the jumper on the enclosure is set per that setting of the hard drive.
>>>Cable select setting on the hard drive is not an option for proper
>>>operation in such cases.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dave

>>
>>
>>> "neil" <neilp67_@_hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:zxW3j.8123$B97.1122@newsfe7-win.ntli.net...
>>>> Hi Anna,
>>>> I have tried the drive connected to the internal IDE and in the caddy,
>>>> using master & cable select but no change. I now have the drive with a
>>>> copy of XP SP2 fully installed and if I put it in the caddy I get the
>>>> error message "disk read error press ctr alt del" at boot, but if I
>>>> connect it to the internal IDE cable using the cable that is normally
>>>> connected to the caddy (primary master) then it boots into XP and works
>>>> without error.
>>>> I did put it into the same tray as my normal 120Gb drive and the error
>>>> is the same. Both 120Gb & 160Gb are set to "cable select".
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas
>>>> Neil
>>>>
>>>> "Anna" <myname@myisp.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:uRCxRTtMIHA.5860@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>>
>>>>> "neil" <neilp67_@_hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:KsD3j.338$pC2.289@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
>>>>>>> Just to ensure we're talking about the same type of component - a
>>>>>>> mobile rack that's affixed to a desktop's 5 1/4" bay that has a
>>>>>>> removable tray (caddy) housing a HDD -- that's right, isn't it? And
>>>>>>> if so, you're working with only a single mobile rack, right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is correct..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. First of all, has this problem just arisen, i.e., has the Seagate
>>>>>>> *ever* worked properly while it was installed in the mobile rack or
>>>>>>> has it *never* properly functioned while installed in the mobile
>>>>>>> rack?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Seagate drive has never worked in the caddy, I thought it was
>>>>>> faulty and sent it back under warrantee but the replacement acts just
>>>>>> the same as the original drive. This made me investigate further by
>>>>>> connecting it directly to the IDE cable and that is when I found out
>>>>>> it will boot in that configuration...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. And you say that when the removable tray contains your bootable
>>>>>>> 120 GB HDD it boots & functions just fine, right? Obviously
>>>>>>> indicating there's no problem with the rack itself, right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is correct..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3. But when you insert your bootable Seagate 160 GB HDD in the
>>>>>>> *same* removable tray in the *same* mobile rack, you get the "disk
>>>>>>> error..." message you refer to and the drive is not bootable. Right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I fit it into my second removable tray and that is when I get the
>>>>>> boot error..I have always left the 120Gb drive in what I call my 1st
>>>>>> tray, suppose I could try putting the Seagate in the second tray..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 4. But you know there's nothing wrong with the Seagate because it
>>>>>>> boots & functions just fine when you connect it as an internal HDD,
>>>>>>> right? And when you do this the Seagate is jumpered as Master and is
>>>>>>> connected to your Primary IDE connector on the motherboard, right?
>>>>>>> And your mobile rack is similarly connected as Primary Master when
>>>>>>> it's in use? So that when you connect the Seagate as an internal
>>>>>>> Primary Master (for testing purposes), you disconnect the mobile
>>>>>>> rack's IDE cable connected to the rack and use it to connect the
>>>>>>> Seagate, right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, but I use cable select for either the 120Gb or the 160Gb and
>>>>>> when I have use a 20Gb drive in the second bay.. The 250Gb permanent
>>>>>> drive is also set as cable select...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Think there's any chance that the problem you're experiencing may be
>>>>>>> in the HDD jumpering as related to the IDE cable
>>>>>>> connections/configurations to the motherboard's IDE channel(s)?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have tried both cable select & master links.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anna
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> P.S.
>>>>>>> You indicated in a subsequent post that you think the problem may be
>>>>>>> due to the large-drive limitation involving HDDs > 137 GB. But
>>>>>>> didn't you indicate that the full disk capacity of your 250 GB HDD
>>>>>>> is detected in your system without any problems?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The full capacity has always been seen of all drives it is just a
>>>>>> boot issue not a full capacity issue...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (I note the comment from a responder to your query to the effect
>>>>>>> that "Caddys are not that reliable for the larger hard drives
>>>>>>> (greater than the bios LBA limit of 137GB.)". That has not been our
>>>>>>> experience and we have worked with a wide variety of mobile racks in
>>>>>>> many, many systems over the year. As long as the BIOS supports
>>>>>>> large-drive capability and your XP OS contains SP1 and/or SP2 at the
>>>>>>> time you install the OS onto the HDD, there's no problem with the
>>>>>>> mobile rack itself not detecting HDDs > 137 GB. At least we've never
>>>>>>> once encountered that problem.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It just crossed my mind that it might have something to do with the
>>>>>> 137Gb limit as the drives I swap that are less than 137Gb do boot,
>>>>>> but the first time I use a drive >137Gb (as a boot drive) in the
>>>>>> caddy it doesn't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for taking the time to run through the issues, hoping you can
>>>>>> come up with a resolution.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Neil
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Neil:
>>>>> As I previously indicated, *all* that is necessary for the system to
>>>>> recognize a large-capacity HDD, i.e., one whose capacity is > 137 GB
>>>>> (approx.), are two requirements...
>>>>> 1. The XP OS contains either SP1 or SP2 at the time the OS is
>>>>> installed on the HDD, and,
>>>>> 2. Your motherboard's BIOS supports large-capacity disks. And we know
>>>>> there's no problem here because you've indicated the system detects
>>>>> the full capacity of one of your secondary 250 GB HDDs (at least
>>>>> that's what I think you stated).
>>>>>
>>>>> That's it. Nothing else. It has nothing to do with the mobile rack
>>>>> itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> In any event, if it happened that the XP OS that was installed on your
>>>>> Seagate HDD did *not* contain SP1 or SP2 at the time the OS was
>>>>> installed, the system would still detect the drive; it just wouldn't
>>>>> detect its full capacity. It should still boot and function properly
>>>>> except for the unrecognized additional disk space.
>>>>>
>>>>> As a test, could you jumper the Seagate as Master (rather than CS),
>>>>> install it in the removable tray, and ensure the IDE cable is
>>>>> connected to the Primary IDE connector on the motherboard, and
>>>>> disconnect your second mobile rack together with any other connected
>>>>> internal HDD? Then attempt a boot. Same problem?
>>>>>
>>>>> And, if so, if you uninstalled the Seagate from the removable tray and
>>>>> installed the 120 GB HDD, jumpered as Master, in the same mobile rack
>>>>> still connected to the motherboard's Primary IDE connector, it will
>>>>> boot?
>>>>>
>>>>> And you say, setting aside the removable HDD mobile racks, that the
>>>>> Seagate 160 GB if *directly* connected to the Primary IDE channel as
>>>>> an internal HDD will boot & function properly?
>>>>>
>>>>> Could you detect anything in the motherboard's BIOS settings relative
>>>>> to boot priority order or some such that might shed some light on
>>>>> this? Although as you describe the situation (as I understand it) it's
>>>>> hard for me to conceive that's where the problem lays. But maybe...
>>>>> Anna
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>

>>
>>

>
>
 
Jumping in late here, what makes are the drives. Some manufacturers drives don't like to play nice
with other makes.
--
Dave Vair
CNE, CNA, MCP, A+, N+

"neil" <neilp67_@_hotmail.com> wrote in message news:%%i4j.340$h35.180@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
> Hi Dave,
> The cable is the same cable connected to the bay as connected to the drive directly & is 80 wire.
> (not sure how long but standard , came with the motherboard)
> Just referencing your other reply different thread, there is no link on the drive enclosure and
> the 120Gb drive boots with either the link on the hard drive set to master or cable select. The
> 160Gb drive wont boot in the enclosure with the link in either position, but boots fine when
> connected to the IDE cable inside the PC directly. (this is after disconnecting it from the rear
> of the caddy.
>
> Neil
> "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
> news:e8n$9TDNIHA.4136@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> "neil" <neilp67_@_hotmail.com> wrote in message news:Ewm3j.28511$7k5.115@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
>>>I wonder if anyone can answer this for me. I had a Seagate drive that was deemed faulty with the
>>>above fault so I returned it under warrantee. I received a replacement that gives the same error
>>>at the first boot during the windows XP setup routine. With the drive in the removable caddy the
>>>error occurs but if I connect the drive to the IDE cables directly the drive will boot ok. I have
>>>a 120Gb drive normally working in the bay and that has always been fine, my second drive is a
>>>250Gb drive so the bios does not have a problem with large drives. All IDE cables are 80 pins
>>>type.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions are welcome.
>>>
>>> thanks
>>> Neil
>>>

>>
>> Is the bay enclosure and caddy 80 wire capable version?
>> Are using an 80 wire cable from the bay enclosure to the ide port?
>> How long is the cable you're using for the bay enclosure?
>>
>> --
>> Dave
>>
>>

>
>
 
Just threw that out there in case he had such a model.

Kingwin. Don't have model numbers. They are about 6 years old at least.

Last 2 set, plus 2 extra trays I bought didn't have this jumper thing.
Double fans, all aluminum except plastic front on enclosure. Bout a year
old. Kingwin also.
--
Dave
"Anna" <myname@myisp.net> wrote in message
news:uTa8LRENIHA.6108@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Dave:
> That's interesting. I've worked with dozens of different makes & models of
> mobile racks over a fairly long period of years and I've never come across
> one with jumper selectors on the rack itself. A most unusual arrangement
> to say the least. Could you let me know the make & model of such a unit?
> Thanks.
> Anna
>
>
> "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
> news:%23DnZUZDNIHA.1168@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>A few bay mounted ide hard drive enclosures I've used have a jumper(s) as
>>part of the enclosure. The ide hard drive must be set master or slave,
>>the jumper on the enclosure is set per that setting of the hard drive.
>>Cable select setting on the hard drive is not an option for proper
>>operation in such cases.
>>
>> --
>> Dave

>
>
>> "neil" <neilp67_@_hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:zxW3j.8123$B97.1122@newsfe7-win.ntli.net...
>>> Hi Anna,
>>> I have tried the drive connected to the internal IDE and in the caddy,
>>> using master & cable select but no change. I now have the drive with a
>>> copy of XP SP2 fully installed and if I put it in the caddy I get the
>>> error message "disk read error press ctr alt del" at boot, but if I
>>> connect it to the internal IDE cable using the cable that is normally
>>> connected to the caddy (primary master) then it boots into XP and works
>>> without error.
>>> I did put it into the same tray as my normal 120Gb drive and the error
>>> is the same. Both 120Gb & 160Gb are set to "cable select".
>>>
>>> Any ideas
>>> Neil
>>>
>>> "Anna" <myname@myisp.net> wrote in message
>>> news:uRCxRTtMIHA.5860@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>
>>>> "neil" <neilp67_@_hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:KsD3j.338$pC2.289@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
>>>>>> Just to ensure we're talking about the same type of component - a
>>>>>> mobile rack that's affixed to a desktop's 5 1/4" bay that has a
>>>>>> removable tray (caddy) housing a HDD -- that's right, isn't it? And
>>>>>> if so, you're working with only a single mobile rack, right?
>>>>>
>>>>> That is correct..
>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. First of all, has this problem just arisen, i.e., has the Seagate
>>>>>> *ever* worked properly while it was installed in the mobile rack or
>>>>>> has it *never* properly functioned while installed in the mobile
>>>>>> rack?
>>>>>
>>>>> The Seagate drive has never worked in the caddy, I thought it was
>>>>> faulty and sent it back under warrantee but the replacement acts just
>>>>> the same as the original drive. This made me investigate further by
>>>>> connecting it directly to the IDE cable and that is when I found out
>>>>> it will boot in that configuration...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. And you say that when the removable tray contains your bootable
>>>>>> 120 GB HDD it boots & functions just fine, right? Obviously
>>>>>> indicating there's no problem with the rack itself, right?
>>>>>
>>>>> That is correct..
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. But when you insert your bootable Seagate 160 GB HDD in the *same*
>>>>>> removable tray in the *same* mobile rack, you get the "disk error..."
>>>>>> message you refer to and the drive is not bootable. Right?
>>>>>
>>>>> I fit it into my second removable tray and that is when I get the boot
>>>>> error..I have always left the 120Gb drive in what I call my 1st tray,
>>>>> suppose I could try putting the Seagate in the second tray..
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4. But you know there's nothing wrong with the Seagate because it
>>>>>> boots & functions just fine when you connect it as an internal HDD,
>>>>>> right? And when you do this the Seagate is jumpered as Master and is
>>>>>> connected to your Primary IDE connector on the motherboard, right?
>>>>>> And your mobile rack is similarly connected as Primary Master when
>>>>>> it's in use? So that when you connect the Seagate as an internal
>>>>>> Primary Master (for testing purposes), you disconnect the mobile
>>>>>> rack's IDE cable connected to the rack and use it to connect the
>>>>>> Seagate, right?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, but I use cable select for either the 120Gb or the 160Gb and when
>>>>> I have use a 20Gb drive in the second bay.. The 250Gb permanent drive
>>>>> is also set as cable select...
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Think there's any chance that the problem you're experiencing may be
>>>>>> in the HDD jumpering as related to the IDE cable
>>>>>> connections/configurations to the motherboard's IDE channel(s)?
>>>>>
>>>>> I have tried both cable select & master links.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Anna
>>>>>>
>>>>>> P.S.
>>>>>> You indicated in a subsequent post that you think the problem may be
>>>>>> due to the large-drive limitation involving HDDs > 137 GB. But didn't
>>>>>> you indicate that the full disk capacity of your 250 GB HDD is
>>>>>> detected in your system without any problems?
>>>>>
>>>>> The full capacity has always been seen of all drives it is just a boot
>>>>> issue not a full capacity issue...
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (I note the comment from a responder to your query to the effect that
>>>>>> "Caddys are not that reliable for the larger hard drives (greater
>>>>>> than the bios LBA limit of 137GB.)". That has not been our experience
>>>>>> and we have worked with a wide variety of mobile racks in many, many
>>>>>> systems over the year. As long as the BIOS supports large-drive
>>>>>> capability and your XP OS contains SP1 and/or SP2 at the time you
>>>>>> install the OS onto the HDD, there's no problem with the mobile rack
>>>>>> itself not detecting HDDs > 137 GB. At least we've never once
>>>>>> encountered that problem.)
>>>>>
>>>>> It just crossed my mind that it might have something to do with the
>>>>> 137Gb limit as the drives I swap that are less than 137Gb do boot, but
>>>>> the first time I use a drive >137Gb (as a boot drive) in the caddy it
>>>>> doesn't.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for taking the time to run through the issues, hoping you can
>>>>> come up with a resolution.
>>>>>
>>>>> Neil
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Neil:
>>>> As I previously indicated, *all* that is necessary for the system to
>>>> recognize a large-capacity HDD, i.e., one whose capacity is > 137 GB
>>>> (approx.), are two requirements...
>>>> 1. The XP OS contains either SP1 or SP2 at the time the OS is installed
>>>> on the HDD, and,
>>>> 2. Your motherboard's BIOS supports large-capacity disks. And we know
>>>> there's no problem here because you've indicated the system detects the
>>>> full capacity of one of your secondary 250 GB HDDs (at least that's
>>>> what I think you stated).
>>>>
>>>> That's it. Nothing else. It has nothing to do with the mobile rack
>>>> itself.
>>>>
>>>> In any event, if it happened that the XP OS that was installed on your
>>>> Seagate HDD did *not* contain SP1 or SP2 at the time the OS was
>>>> installed, the system would still detect the drive; it just wouldn't
>>>> detect its full capacity. It should still boot and function properly
>>>> except for the unrecognized additional disk space.
>>>>
>>>> As a test, could you jumper the Seagate as Master (rather than CS),
>>>> install it in the removable tray, and ensure the IDE cable is connected
>>>> to the Primary IDE connector on the motherboard, and disconnect your
>>>> second mobile rack together with any other connected internal HDD? Then
>>>> attempt a boot. Same problem?
>>>>
>>>> And, if so, if you uninstalled the Seagate from the removable tray and
>>>> installed the 120 GB HDD, jumpered as Master, in the same mobile rack
>>>> still connected to the motherboard's Primary IDE connector, it will
>>>> boot?
>>>>
>>>> And you say, setting aside the removable HDD mobile racks, that the
>>>> Seagate 160 GB if *directly* connected to the Primary IDE channel as an
>>>> internal HDD will boot & function properly?
>>>>
>>>> Could you detect anything in the motherboard's BIOS settings relative
>>>> to boot priority order or some such that might shed some light on this?
>>>> Although as you describe the situation (as I understand it) it's hard
>>>> for me to conceive that's where the problem lays. But maybe...
>>>> Anna
>>>>
>>>
>>>

>>
>>

>
>
 
Agreed. Maxtor slaved with WD master or vice-versa is generally a no-no.
There's others, but that's the biggest one. It boils down to the low-level
ide communication method of each HD mfr as the source of the problem.

--
Dave
"David Vair" <dvair@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ORKpXuINIHA.4832@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Jumping in late here, what makes are the drives. Some manufacturers
> drives don't like to play nice with other makes.
> --
> Dave Vair
> CNE, CNA, MCP, A+, N+
>
> "neil" <neilp67_@_hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:%%i4j.340$h35.180@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
>> Hi Dave,
>> The cable is the same cable connected to the bay as connected to the
>> drive directly & is 80 wire. (not sure how long but standard , came with
>> the motherboard)
>> Just referencing your other reply different thread, there is no link on
>> the drive enclosure and the 120Gb drive boots with either the link on the
>> hard drive set to master or cable select. The 160Gb drive wont boot in
>> the enclosure with the link in either position, but boots fine when
>> connected to the IDE cable inside the PC directly. (this is after
>> disconnecting it from the rear of the caddy.
>>
>> Neil
>> "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
>> news:e8n$9TDNIHA.4136@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> "neil" <neilp67_@_hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:Ewm3j.28511$7k5.115@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
>>>>I wonder if anyone can answer this for me. I had a Seagate drive that
>>>>was deemed faulty with the above fault so I returned it under warrantee.
>>>>I received a replacement that gives the same error at the first boot
>>>>during the windows XP setup routine. With the drive in the removable
>>>>caddy the error occurs but if I connect the drive to the IDE cables
>>>>directly the drive will boot ok. I have a 120Gb drive normally working
>>>>in the bay and that has always been fine, my second drive is a 250Gb
>>>>drive so the bios does not have a problem with large drives. All IDE
>>>>cables are 80 pins type.
>>>>
>>>> Any suggestions are welcome.
>>>>
>>>> thanks
>>>> Neil
>>>>
>>>
>>> Is the bay enclosure and caddy 80 wire capable version?
>>> Are using an 80 wire cable from the bay enclosure to the ide port?
>>> How long is the cable you're using for the bay enclosure?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>

>>
>>

>
>
 
Hi guys,
I may or may not have covered this in previous posts, but just to be sure.
My working config is a Maxtor 120Gb drive in a caddy as cable select with a
WD 250Gb as a second internal drive also cable select.
If I disconnect the caddy and connect the Seagate 160Gb drive I can set it
up with windows XP with or without the WD drive connected. If I then put it
into the caddy, reconnecting the cable inside the PC to the caddy then the
Seagate 160Gb drive wont boot and gives the error "disk read error ctrl alt
del to reboot".
The caddy tray has a small fan attached and is a "Data-Castle" BT-27 RH
mobile rack.
Neil

"Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
news:e2hxH4KNIHA.292@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Agreed. Maxtor slaved with WD master or vice-versa is generally a no-no.
> There's others, but that's the biggest one. It boils down to the
> low-level ide communication method of each HD mfr as the source of the
> problem.
>
> --
> Dave
> "David Vair" <dvair@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:ORKpXuINIHA.4832@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> Jumping in late here, what makes are the drives. Some manufacturers
>> drives don't like to play nice with other makes.
>> --
>> Dave Vair
>> CNE, CNA, MCP, A+, N+
>>
>> "neil" <neilp67_@_hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:%%i4j.340$h35.180@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
>>> Hi Dave,
>>> The cable is the same cable connected to the bay as connected to the
>>> drive directly & is 80 wire. (not sure how long but standard , came with
>>> the motherboard)
>>> Just referencing your other reply different thread, there is no link on
>>> the drive enclosure and the 120Gb drive boots with either the link on
>>> the hard drive set to master or cable select. The 160Gb drive wont boot
>>> in the enclosure with the link in either position, but boots fine when
>>> connected to the IDE cable inside the PC directly. (this is after
>>> disconnecting it from the rear of the caddy.
>>>
>>> Neil
>>> "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
>>> news:e8n$9TDNIHA.4136@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>> "neil" <neilp67_@_hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:Ewm3j.28511$7k5.115@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
>>>>>I wonder if anyone can answer this for me. I had a Seagate drive that
>>>>>was deemed faulty with the above fault so I returned it under
>>>>>warrantee. I received a replacement that gives the same error at the
>>>>>first boot during the windows XP setup routine. With the drive in the
>>>>>removable caddy the error occurs but if I connect the drive to the IDE
>>>>>cables directly the drive will boot ok. I have a 120Gb drive normally
>>>>>working in the bay and that has always been fine, my second drive is a
>>>>>250Gb drive so the bios does not have a problem with large drives. All
>>>>>IDE cables are 80 pins type.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any suggestions are welcome.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks
>>>>> Neil
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is the bay enclosure and caddy 80 wire capable version?
>>>> Are using an 80 wire cable from the bay enclosure to the ide port?
>>>> How long is the cable you're using for the bay enclosure?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>

>>
>>

>
>
 
Hi Anna,
I have checked everything again & the problem is still the same. I can't
understand it either, all your comments in the previous post are correct. I
have tried swapping drives in caddys and the result is the same, if I
connect the drive directly inside the case to the IDE connector that was
removed from the caddy the system boots on the 160Gb drive. If I then put
the drive into the caddy and connect the IDE cable to the tray it doesn't
boot. But the 120Gb does boot. I can only guess there is something about the
Seagate drive the caddy doesn't like but I don't have access to another
similar sized drive to try in the caddy. Ho hum, perhaps I'll never solve
this one and just have to use the 160Gb drive as another non boot drive.
Thanks for all your thoughts and help.
Neil

"Anna" <myname@myisp.net> wrote in message
news:u5NsUi4MIHA.820@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>
>> "Anna" <myname@myisp.net> wrote in message
>> news:uRCxRTtMIHA.5860@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>
>>> "neil" <neilp67_@_hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:KsD3j.338$pC2.289@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
>>>>> Just to ensure we're talking about the same type of component - a
>>>>> mobile rack that's affixed to a desktop's 5 1/4" bay that has a
>>>>> removable tray (caddy) housing a HDD -- that's right, isn't it? And if
>>>>> so, you're working with only a single mobile rack, right?
>>>>
>>>> That is correct..
>>>>
>>>>> 1. First of all, has this problem just arisen, i.e., has the Seagate
>>>>> *ever* worked properly while it was installed in the mobile rack or
>>>>> has it *never* properly functioned while installed in the mobile rack?
>>>>
>>>> The Seagate drive has never worked in the caddy, I thought it was
>>>> faulty and sent it back under warrantee but the replacement acts just
>>>> the same as the original drive. This made me investigate further by
>>>> connecting it directly to the IDE cable and that is when I found out it
>>>> will boot in that configuration...
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. And you say that when the removable tray contains your bootable 120
>>>>> GB HDD it boots & functions just fine, right? Obviously indicating
>>>>> there's no problem with the rack itself, right?
>>>>
>>>> That is correct..
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. But when you insert your bootable Seagate 160 GB HDD in the *same*
>>>>> removable tray in the *same* mobile rack, you get the "disk error..."
>>>>> message you refer to and the drive is not bootable. Right?
>>>>
>>>> I fit it into my second removable tray and that is when I get the boot
>>>> error..I have always left the 120Gb drive in what I call my 1st tray,
>>>> suppose I could try putting the Seagate in the second tray..
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 4. But you know there's nothing wrong with the Seagate because it
>>>>> boots & functions just fine when you connect it as an internal HDD,
>>>>> right? And when you do this the Seagate is jumpered as Master and is
>>>>> connected to your Primary IDE connector on the motherboard, right? And
>>>>> your mobile rack is similarly connected as Primary Master when it's in
>>>>> use? So that when you connect the Seagate as an internal Primary
>>>>> Master (for testing purposes), you disconnect the mobile rack's IDE
>>>>> cable connected to the rack and use it to connect the Seagate, right?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, but I use cable select for either the 120Gb or the 160Gb and when
>>>> I have use a 20Gb drive in the second bay.. The 250Gb permanent drive
>>>> is also set as cable select...
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Think there's any chance that the problem you're experiencing may be
>>>>> in the HDD jumpering as related to the IDE cable
>>>>> connections/configurations to the motherboard's IDE channel(s)?
>>>>
>>>> I have tried both cable select & master links.
>>>>
>>>>> Anna
>>>>>
>>>>> P.S.
>>>>> You indicated in a subsequent post that you think the problem may be
>>>>> due to the large-drive limitation involving HDDs > 137 GB. But didn't
>>>>> you indicate that the full disk capacity of your 250 GB HDD is
>>>>> detected in your system without any problems?
>>>>
>>>> The full capacity has always been seen of all drives it is just a boot
>>>> issue not a full capacity issue...
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (I note the comment from a responder to your query to the effect that
>>>>> "Caddys are not that reliable for the larger hard drives (greater than
>>>>> the bios LBA limit of 137GB.)". That has not been our experience and
>>>>> we have worked with a wide variety of mobile racks in many, many
>>>>> systems over the year. As long as the BIOS supports large-drive
>>>>> capability and your XP OS contains SP1 and/or SP2 at the time you
>>>>> install the OS onto the HDD, there's no problem with the mobile rack
>>>>> itself not detecting HDDs > 137 GB. At least we've never once
>>>>> encountered that problem.)
>>>>
>>>> It just crossed my mind that it might have something to do with the
>>>> 137Gb limit as the drives I swap that are less than 137Gb do boot, but
>>>> the first time I use a drive >137Gb (as a boot drive) in the caddy it
>>>> doesn't.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for taking the time to run through the issues, hoping you can
>>>> come up with a resolution.
>>>>
>>>> Neil
>>>
>>>
>>> Neil:
>>> As I previously indicated, *all* that is necessary for the system to
>>> recognize a large-capacity HDD, i.e., one whose capacity is > 137 GB
>>> (approx.), are two requirements...
>>> 1. The XP OS contains either SP1 or SP2 at the time the OS is installed
>>> on the HDD, and,
>>> 2. Your motherboard's BIOS supports large-capacity disks. And we know
>>> there's no problem here because you've indicated the system detects the
>>> full capacity of one of your secondary 250 GB HDDs (at least that's what
>>> I think you stated).
>>>
>>> That's it. Nothing else. It has nothing to do with the mobile rack
>>> itself.
>>>
>>> In any event, if it happened that the XP OS that was installed on your
>>> Seagate HDD did *not* contain SP1 or SP2 at the time the OS was
>>> installed, the system would still detect the drive; it just wouldn't
>>> detect its full capacity. It should still boot and function properly
>>> except for the unrecognized additional disk space.
>>>
>>> As a test, could you jumper the Seagate as Master (rather than CS),
>>> install it in the removable tray, and ensure the IDE cable is connected
>>> to the Primary IDE connector on the motherboard, and disconnect your
>>> second mobile rack together with any other connected internal HDD? Then
>>> attempt a boot. Same problem?
>>>
>>> And, if so, if you uninstalled the Seagate from the removable tray and
>>> installed the 120 GB HDD, jumpered as Master, in the same mobile rack
>>> still connected to the motherboard's Primary IDE connector, it will
>>> boot?
>>>
>>> And you say, setting aside the removable HDD mobile racks, that the
>>> Seagate 160 GB if *directly* connected to the Primary IDE channel as an
>>> internal HDD will boot & function properly?
>>>
>>> Could you detect anything in the motherboard's BIOS settings relative to
>>> boot priority order or some such that might shed some light on this?
>>> Although as you describe the situation (as I understand it) it's hard
>>> for me to conceive that's where the problem lays. But maybe...
>>> Anna

>
>
> "neil" <neilp67_@_hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:zxW3j.8123$B97.1122@newsfe7-win.ntli.net...
>> Hi Anna,
>> I have tried the drive connected to the internal IDE and in the caddy,
>> using master & cable select but no change. I now have the drive with a
>> copy of XP SP2 fully installed and if I put it in the caddy I get the
>> error message "disk read error press ctr alt del" at boot, but if I
>> connect it to the internal IDE cable using the cable that is normally
>> connected to the caddy (primary master) then it boots into XP and works
>> without error.
>> I did put it into the same tray as my normal 120Gb drive and the error is
>> the same. Both 120Gb & 160Gb are set to "cable select".
>>
>> Any ideas
>> Neil

>
>
> Neil:
> It is indeed a strange situation. Just to summarize...
>
> 1. You know there's no problem with your mobile rack & its removable tray
> because when you insert the bootable 120 GB HDD (jumpered as Master or
> Single) it boots without incident and functions just fine, right?.
>
> 2. But when you insert the bootable Seagate 160 GB HDD similarly jumpered
> as Master, in the same mobile rack and in same removable tray, it won't
> boot and you get that error message. And you're absolutely sure you've
> properly inserted that Seagate in the removable tray so that it's making
> proper contact with the tray's internal connectors (power & data), right?
>
> I think you mentioned you had two mobile racks - I'm assuming they're the
> same make & model. If so, did you try using the second removable tray with
> the Seagate?
>
> 3. And when you connect the Seagate directly to the *same* IDE cable that
> was connected to the rack so that the Seagate is functioning as an
> "internal" HDD, it boots & functions just fine. So there's obviously no
> problem with the drive itself.
>
> 4. And you did check your BIOS just on the off-chance that there might be
> some selection/option/element etc. that might impact on this problem?
>
> Assuming I completely & correctly understand the situation as described
> above I honestly don't know what to suggest. When we've run into previous
> (roughly) similar cases like the one you describe, i.e., no defective
> components immediately discerned, the problem was invariably due to
> incorrect jumpering of the disk, or improper insertion of the drive in the
> removable tray, or use of another IDE data cable which proved defective,
> or an incorrect BIOS setting re boot priority order. Although I have to
> add that we encountered a (very) few cases where for some unaccountable
> reason a non-defective perfectly good HDD would not work in a
> non-defective perfectly good mobile rack even though we determined all
> connections were proper and all the involved components were
> non-defective. An extremely rare occurrence in my experience but it did
> happen.
>
> Anyway, go over things again and please keep us informed of developments.
> Anna
>
 
As others have suggested,
http://www.pcbanter.net/showthread.php?p=3020692
the caddy or bay enclosure may have problem.

Have you tried using the secondary ide cable to the enclosure normally used
for the Seagate? And, using the WD in that enclosure? If the WD doesn't
work, the fix is obvious....

--
Dave
Profound is we're here due to a chance arrangement
of chemicals in the ocean billions of years ago.
More profound is we made it to the top of the food
chain per our reasoning abilities.
Most profound is the denial of why we may
be on the way out.
"neil" <neilp67_@_hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:J_v4j.898$zw.134@newsfe3-win.ntli.net...
> Hi guys,
> I may or may not have covered this in previous posts, but just to be sure.
> My working config is a Maxtor 120Gb drive in a caddy as cable select with
> a WD 250Gb as a second internal drive also cable select.
> If I disconnect the caddy and connect the Seagate 160Gb drive I can set it
> up with windows XP with or without the WD drive connected. If I then put
> it into the caddy, reconnecting the cable inside the PC to the caddy then
> the Seagate 160Gb drive wont boot and gives the error "disk read error
> ctrl alt del to reboot".
> The caddy tray has a small fan attached and is a "Data-Castle" BT-27 RH
> mobile rack.
> Neil
>
> "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
> news:e2hxH4KNIHA.292@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> Agreed. Maxtor slaved with WD master or vice-versa is generally a no-no.
>> There's others, but that's the biggest one. It boils down to the
>> low-level ide communication method of each HD mfr as the source of the
>> problem.
>>
>> --
>> Dave
>> "David Vair" <dvair@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:ORKpXuINIHA.4832@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>> Jumping in late here, what makes are the drives. Some manufacturers
>>> drives don't like to play nice with other makes.
>>> --
>>> Dave Vair
>>> CNE, CNA, MCP, A+, N+
>>>
>>> "neil" <neilp67_@_hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:%%i4j.340$h35.180@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
>>>> Hi Dave,
>>>> The cable is the same cable connected to the bay as connected to the
>>>> drive directly & is 80 wire. (not sure how long but standard , came
>>>> with the motherboard)
>>>> Just referencing your other reply different thread, there is no link on
>>>> the drive enclosure and the 120Gb drive boots with either the link on
>>>> the hard drive set to master or cable select. The 160Gb drive wont boot
>>>> in the enclosure with the link in either position, but boots fine when
>>>> connected to the IDE cable inside the PC directly. (this is after
>>>> disconnecting it from the rear of the caddy.
>>>>
>>>> Neil
>>>> "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:e8n$9TDNIHA.4136@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>>> "neil" <neilp67_@_hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:Ewm3j.28511$7k5.115@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
>>>>>>I wonder if anyone can answer this for me. I had a Seagate drive that
>>>>>>was deemed faulty with the above fault so I returned it under
>>>>>>warrantee. I received a replacement that gives the same error at the
>>>>>>first boot during the windows XP setup routine. With the drive in the
>>>>>>removable caddy the error occurs but if I connect the drive to the IDE
>>>>>>cables directly the drive will boot ok. I have a 120Gb drive normally
>>>>>>working in the bay and that has always been fine, my second drive is a
>>>>>>250Gb drive so the bios does not have a problem with large drives. All
>>>>>>IDE cables are 80 pins type.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any suggestions are welcome.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>> Neil
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Is the bay enclosure and caddy 80 wire capable version?
>>>>> Are using an 80 wire cable from the bay enclosure to the ide port?
>>>>> How long is the cable you're using for the bay enclosure?
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>

>>
>>

>
>
 
I can't do that as the WD 250Gb contains data files as it's used as a
permanent drive for MP3, photos, videos etc. I leave that drive connected
internally on the secondary connector position on the ribbon cable.
I've tried swapping the drive into the caddy which normally houses the 120Gb
drive and even using another tray (what the caddy plugs into) the 160Gb
drive will not boot. The 120Gb or other 20Gb drives will always boot in the
caddys.
Thanks for the thoughts anyway. I have now fitted the 160Gb drive into an
external USB enclosure & I think I'll use it for external storage.
Neil
"Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
news:%236xAu2fNIHA.4948@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> As others have suggested,
> http://www.pcbanter.net/showthread.php?p=3020692
> the caddy or bay enclosure may have problem.
>
> Have you tried using the secondary ide cable to the enclosure normally
> used for the Seagate? And, using the WD in that enclosure? If the WD
> doesn't work, the fix is obvious....
>
> --
> Dave
> Profound is we're here due to a chance arrangement
> of chemicals in the ocean billions of years ago.
> More profound is we made it to the top of the food
> chain per our reasoning abilities.
> Most profound is the denial of why we may
> be on the way out.
> "neil" <neilp67_@_hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:J_v4j.898$zw.134@newsfe3-win.ntli.net...
>> Hi guys,
>> I may or may not have covered this in previous posts, but just to be
>> sure. My working config is a Maxtor 120Gb drive in a caddy as cable
>> select with a WD 250Gb as a second internal drive also cable select.
>> If I disconnect the caddy and connect the Seagate 160Gb drive I can set
>> it up with windows XP with or without the WD drive connected. If I then
>> put it into the caddy, reconnecting the cable inside the PC to the caddy
>> then the Seagate 160Gb drive wont boot and gives the error "disk read
>> error ctrl alt del to reboot".
>> The caddy tray has a small fan attached and is a "Data-Castle" BT-27 RH
>> mobile rack.
>> Neil
>>
>> "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
>> news:e2hxH4KNIHA.292@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>> Agreed. Maxtor slaved with WD master or vice-versa is generally a
>>> no-no. There's others, but that's the biggest one. It boils down to the
>>> low-level ide communication method of each HD mfr as the source of the
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dave
>>> "David Vair" <dvair@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
>>> news:ORKpXuINIHA.4832@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>> Jumping in late here, what makes are the drives. Some manufacturers
>>>> drives don't like to play nice with other makes.
>>>> --
>>>> Dave Vair
>>>> CNE, CNA, MCP, A+, N+
>>>>
>>>> "neil" <neilp67_@_hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:%%i4j.340$h35.180@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
>>>>> Hi Dave,
>>>>> The cable is the same cable connected to the bay as connected to the
>>>>> drive directly & is 80 wire. (not sure how long but standard , came
>>>>> with the motherboard)
>>>>> Just referencing your other reply different thread, there is no link
>>>>> on the drive enclosure and the 120Gb drive boots with either the link
>>>>> on the hard drive set to master or cable select. The 160Gb drive wont
>>>>> boot in the enclosure with the link in either position, but boots fine
>>>>> when connected to the IDE cable inside the PC directly. (this is after
>>>>> disconnecting it from the rear of the caddy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Neil
>>>>> "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:e8n$9TDNIHA.4136@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> "neil" <neilp67_@_hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:Ewm3j.28511$7k5.115@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
>>>>>>>I wonder if anyone can answer this for me. I had a Seagate drive that
>>>>>>>was deemed faulty with the above fault so I returned it under
>>>>>>>warrantee. I received a replacement that gives the same error at the
>>>>>>>first boot during the windows XP setup routine. With the drive in the
>>>>>>>removable caddy the error occurs but if I connect the drive to the
>>>>>>>IDE cables directly the drive will boot ok. I have a 120Gb drive
>>>>>>>normally working in the bay and that has always been fine, my second
>>>>>>>drive is a 250Gb drive so the bios does not have a problem with large
>>>>>>>drives. All IDE cables are 80 pins type.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any suggestions are welcome.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>>> Neil
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is the bay enclosure and caddy 80 wire capable version?
>>>>>> Are using an 80 wire cable from the bay enclosure to the ide port?
>>>>>> How long is the cable you're using for the bay enclosure?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>

>>
>>

>
>
 
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